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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

GoldenYuiitusin

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The Washington Post of all companies wrote a news piece about how requested Waluigi is for Smash and how pissed off people were to find out he wasn't in Ultimate.

I'm going to pretend that everything institutionalized media says is gospel, but the fact that this article exists at all demonstrates just how popular Waluigi is. He's reached a point where even people who don't keep up with Smash closely know just how desired he is as a Smash character, similar to Ridley and K. Rool pre-Ultimate. He's going to be in the next Smash regardless of what form it takes based off this sheer demand alone.
And they also made an article about people being disappointed over Byleth.



This doesn't mean much in the scheme of things unless we're going to take this as a sign for Byleth being scrapped too.

Controversy just makes headlines.
 
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CannonStreak

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To be honest...regardless of what he said, I honestly do have to somewhat question how much Sakurai actually wanted to add Geno considering the guy got passed over for not one (:ultcloud:), not two (:ulthero::ulthero2::ulthero3::ulthero4:) but three (:ultsephiroth:) different Square-Enix owned characters. Doesn't seem like he was actually that huge of a priority. Even Banjo-Kazooie were the very first characters we got from Microsoft, over bigger picks such as Minecraft Steve and Master Chief.

Of course, all of this was before the Mario RPG remake. It really feels like it's truly do or die for Geno the next Smash.
Yeah, I get what you mean.

It was said by Geno fans that Sakurai wanting to focus on a more iconic character like Cloud was why Geno was not playable in Smash 4, whatever merit that has, because I think there is more to it than that.

I think Sakurai’s interest in Geno died down by Ultimate, so unless his Interest goes back up with the remake by next game, Geno may not get in.
 

BritishGuy54

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While Geno does have a lot of support since Brawl, at least, I can see him being passed up in favour of a different Mario or Square Enix character, or simply relegated to DLC.

It just depends on what approach Nintendo and Sakurai will take when building a roster. One based on fan-demand like Ultimate? Although that needed assistance from the Smash Ballot, and it’s coming up to being a decade out of date. Or a roster based more on bringing in the new content and timeless content that finally feels ripe for the picking?

I feel like the latter will be the way to go, especially as most estimates are placing an 8-year gap between Ultimate and a new game, possibly the longest gap between Smash games, longer than the time between Melee and Brawl was.

Though I imagine a lot of Geno supporters worst nightmare is seeing Geno get AT’d.
 

CannonStreak

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Waluigi and Geno sitting in a tree ..

I say they both get in! Geno isn't a "Mario character" in terms of this discussion and wouldn't "out prioritize" anyone except within SquareEnix, who does own him (and Mallow).
I was actually going to bring that up. Thanks for doing that. I don’t think Geno has that much to worry about in terms of completion. I could see Geno be treated differently from other Mario characters because of this.
 

Freduardo

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So guys, what do you guys think of the state of the Star Fox franchise? What's the future look like?

DK is at least getting ports and F-Zero finally got a game.

Is Star Fox just **** outta luck?
Pretty much.

Like Star Fox 2 sold some SNES minis. And they rented out Fox, Falco, and Wolf for Starlink.

But "dogfighting" games haven't been the multiplayer successes they used to be. Like Star Wars: Squadrons did alright, but it sold on steam about what the first Rogue Squadron did on the N64. Crimson Skies never got a sequel.

Like if it were up to me? You do a Kirby "Super Stars". Include the damn Lylat story that's in every game as one game. Include a port or new version of Command as another. Include Vs. Mode. Include another 2 rail shooter campaigns, base one off Assault if you have to.
 

Gengar84

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I was actually going to bring that up. Thanks for doing that. I don’t think Geno has that much to worry about in terms of completion. I could see Geno be treated differently from other Mario characters because of this.
I’m fine with Geno getting in. I was a huge fan of Super Mario RPG back in the day even if I never really cared about him as a character specifically. However, there are several Square-Enix characters I’d personally rather see. The main one is Magus from Chrono Trigger but H’aanit (Octopath Traveller) and Frederica Aesfrost (Triangle Strategy) would be my next. I’d also be excited for another Final Fantasy character, though my favorites aren’t the most likely. Of my favorites, I think Princess Garnet is probably the most likely if the rumors of the FFIX remake are true.
 
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CannonStreak

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I’m fine with Geno getting in. I was a huge fan of Super Mario RPG back in the day even if I never really cared about him as a character specifically. However, there are several Square-Enix characters I’d personally rather see. The main one is Magus from Chrono Trigger but H’aanit (Octopath Traveller) and Frederica Aesfrost (Triangle Strategy) would be my next. I’d also be excited for another Final Fantasy character, though my favorites aren’t the most likely.
Understood. I am thinking of playing a Square-Enix game, myself. I would like to think of such a character that could be in Smash, but I have not played many Square-Enix games aside from SMRPG. I would say Black Mage from Final Fantasy 1, but Cloud and Sephiroth are already in.
 

BritishGuy54

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It is funny how the two most popular Mario newcomer candidates are supporting characters exclusive to spinoff games and obviously don't appear in any of the mainline platformers. I guess that does show of much of a reach the Mario brand as a whole has.
The three most popular Mario newcomers, you mean.
 

CrusherMania1592

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Waluigi and Geno sitting in a tree ..

I say they both get in! Geno isn't a "Mario character" in terms of this discussion and wouldn't "out prioritize" anyone except within SquareEnix, who does own him (and Mallow).
It would not surprise me at all if Geno is either one of the last base roster newcomers or one of the first DLCs at this point

Waluigi is almost a given for one of the firsts. Someone like Bandanna Dee, Isaac, or a new IP to start with would be great
 

Gengar84

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Understood. I am thinking of playing a Square-Enix game, myself. I would like to think of such a character that could be in Smash, but I have not played many Square-Enix games aside from SMRPG. I would say Black Mage from Final Fantasy 1, but Cloud and Sephiroth are already in.
They had a lot of great games back in the day like Chrono Trigger/Cross and the older Final Fantasy games (pre X-2). The new HD-2D games have been great as well. My only complaint with Octopath is the limited interaction between your party members. The sequel helped with that but it’s still very different than a typical party in an RPG. Great individual stories though. Triangle Strategy was a lot of fun but there’s a ton of story and dialogue between missions and it can be kind of grindy. If you’re okay with that then it’s a great game.
 
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CannonStreak

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They had a lot of great games back in the day like Chrono Trigger/Cross and the older Final Fantasy games (pre X-2). The new HD-2D games have been great as well. My only complaint with Octopath is the limited interaction between your party members. The sequel helped with that but it’s still very different than a typical party in an RPG. Great individual stories though. Triangle Strategy was a lot of fun there’s a ton of story and dialogue between missions and it can be kind of grindy. If you’re okay with that then it’s a great game.
I think I may try it out. Thanks!

On Geno, though, while the SMRPG game was successful, I can see other franchises be much bigger than that game, where Geno was not the star.

I wondered if Nintendo even cared for SMRPG and its remake? I did not see much effort put into their advertising campaign.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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My main complaint with Octopath Traveler is the bosses. All of them are sponge bosses that have some sort of critical health freakout that decimates you and makes it even harder to do any sort of damage. Even when you do find the rhythm it takes forever. Like, I've found myself actually wasting turns on inspecting the boss just to see if I'm anywhere close to winning yet, and the answer is usually something like 5 more cycles of good damage being required to actually take them down.
 

CannonStreak

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You know, one other thing on Geno I forgot to mention, he does have some things going for him. However l, his fans may have exaggerated those things and not have paid any attention to the negative things against Geno, which I feel at this rate are more numerous than the things going FOR him.
 

Gengar84

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My main complaint with Octopath Traveler is the bosses. All of them are sponge bosses that have some sort of critical health freakout that decimates you and makes it even harder to do any sort of damage. Even when you do find the rhythm it takes forever. Like, I've found myself actually wasting turns on inspecting the boss just to see if I'm anywhere close to winning yet, and the answer is usually something like 5 more cycles of good damage being required to actually take them down.
The final (secret) boss in the first game took over an hour to fight and I almost died right at the end. That battle was definitely stressful but I felt great when I eventually won. The final boss in the second game was much easier but maybe that’s because I was a bit overlevelled. The problem I had with Octopath 2 is the Catapault move from the Inventor class was so overpowered you basically cleared whole armies of enemies before they could ever hit you. It kind of made the other classes feel less important in comparison. I had the same issue with the Body Slam attack from the Freelancer class in Bravely Default 2.
 

Noipoi

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Some people vastly overestimate Geno’s chances but here I think he’s being underestimated. Just a smidge.

He’s not the frontrunner for a Mario or a Square character by any means, but Sakurai knows there’s a desire for him and he’s as relevant as he’s ever gonna be The next game might be his best shot.

Waluigi’s totally gonna be the first Mario newcomer though, totally. Geno would be dlc if he comes at all.
 

CrusherMania1592

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I think I may try it out. Thanks!

On Geno, though, while the SMRPG game was successful, I can see other franchises be much bigger than that game, where Geno was not the star.

I wondered if Nintendo even cared for SMRPG and its remake? I did not see much effort put into their advertising campaign.
Perhaps they wanted to test the waters on sales due to it being a remake. I can see a bigger announcement with RPG 2 when that's ready.
 

PeridotGX

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I think people are sleeping on the idea of Kamek being added.
1720029265573.png

He's been a lot more prominent lately. He was made playable in the booster course pass, seems to be the main NPC in the new Mario party, and was present in the Super Mario Bros Movie. This is on top of being the main antagonist of the Yoshi games and a side antagonist in many 2D Mario games. I wouldn't go as far as to call him a lock, but I think he's probably the second most likely Marioverse character after Waluigi.
 

Garteam

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And they also made an article about people being disappointed over Byleth.



This doesn't mean much in the scheme of things unless we're going to take this as a sign for Byleth being scrapped too.

Controversy just makes headlines.
Byleth's image got rehabilitated, though. People were livid when he was added, but people forgot about that reasonably quickly because Byleth has a cool moveset, MKLeo got some results with the character, and Three Houses was a massive success. Walugi is in the same boat as he was before.

If Waluigi's exclusion were to piss off as approximately as many people as Byleth's inclusion pissed off due to being controversies of a similar magnitude, that's a pretty good reason to add Waluigi. It would go to show that a large number of people are very invested in Waluigi's inclusion and that said inclusion is a major expectation of the next Smash.
 

CannonStreak

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I think people are sleeping on the idea of Kamek being added.
View attachment 391875
He's been a lot more prominent lately. He was made playable in the booster course pass, seems to be the main NPC in the new Mario party, and was present in the Super Mario Bros Movie. This is on top of being the main antagonist of the Yoshi games and a side antagonist in many 2D Mario games. I wouldn't go as far as to call him a lock, but I think he's probably the second most likely Marioverse character after Waluigi.
Honestly…

I’d love Kamek! That would be cool. It would be cooler if he represented the Yoshi series!
 

smashkirby

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Ah, I think I see what you mean. Are there flags over the Great Maze entry points? If not, then yeah you may have to actually beat Tabuu to find out if you got everything. Unless you want to use a walkthrough and go through everything again manually to double check, which is...probably not worth it.
I don't know if 96% is the correct number, but you might not be able to tell even from that because I think each gold box might be worth <1% on its own? But I don't know for sure.

Sadly this may be as much as I can help, since it's been well over a decade since I did this. Maybe someone else knows a way.
That's alright. Frankly, I think you might be right. I mean, don't Toon Link, Jigglypuff, and Wolf, (and Sonic) also count towards 100%? They might represent those final percentages...
 

CannonStreak

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Waluigi, Geno, Kamek, King Boo, Paper Mario…

Where the hell are the Toad supporters at today? I ain’t seen a single soul mention him yet.
My four main Mario wants for Smash Brothers are Waluigi, Toad, Paper Mario and Geno. I would not be upset if only two of those got in.


Also I just cannot let this narrative that Geno wouldn't have a cool moveset slide. I’m

The dude turns himself into a cannon to fire a supernova. You don't have to like him, but you can't deny that's objectively cool.
Well, I don’t deny Geno’s chances. In fact, I want him in Smash Bros. as a playable. I just try to be hopeful AND realistic about things, ya know.
 
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Sucumbio

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It would not surprise me at all if Geno is either one of the last base roster newcomers or one of the first DLCs at this point

Waluigi is almost a given for one of the firsts. Someone like Bandanna Dee, Isaac, or a new IP to start with would be great
I'm on the bus gus we getting Geno as dlc ONE and yeah Waluigi is base.
 

Jotadé

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I do think people are sleeping on the chances of a second Sonic character happening.

Right now the franchise is a huge deal, at least in Europe and Spain.

Sonic Frontiers sold extremely well, the movies have been a huge hit among younger audiences, merch sells like crazy at least in Spain, here in Gran Canaria you cant go anywhere without seeing at least one kid with a Sonic plushie or a Young Adult with a sweater of the character and a long etc...

Also this may not count as much as those other points, but Sonic and Mario both starred on the Día de Reyes parade of Gran Canaria, being literally the first costume characters to appear on It:
Screenshot_2024-07-03-19-18-26-54_99c04817c0de5652397fc8b56c3b3817.jpg

Kinda goes to show that Sonic is quite relevant among kids today, maybe even more than in the 2000s, so I feel the Smash team adding a new Sonic character to the next Game would be interesting for general audiences.
 

Gengar84

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My four main Mario wants for Smash Brothers are Waluigi, Toad, Paper Mario and Geno. I would not be upset if only two of those got in.




Well, I don’t deny Geno’s chances. In fact, I want him in Smash Bros. as a playable. I just try to be hopeful AND realistic about things, ya know.
I think there’s a pretty strong chance you’ll get at least one of them. I can’t say the same for mine though lol.

Goomba
Goombella
Wart
King Boo
 

CannonStreak

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I do think people are sleeping on the chances of a second Sonic character happening.

Right now the franchise is a huge deal, at least in Europe and Spain.

Sonic Frontiers sold extremely well, the movies have been a huge hit among younger audiences, merch sells like crazy at least in Spain, here in Gran Canaria you cant go anywhere without seeing at least one kid with a Sonic plushie or a Young Adult with a sweater of the character and a long etc...

Also this may not count as much as those other points, but Sonic and Mario both starred on the Día de Reyes parade of Gran Canaria, being literally the first costume characters to appear on It:
View attachment 391876
Kinda goes to show that Sonic is quite relevant among kids today, maybe even more than in the 2000s, so I feel the Smash team adding a new Sonic character to the next Game would be interesting for general audiences.
I was not sleeping in that, honestly. I would welcome that as a Sonic fan.

I was just caught up with what was the current discussion, that is all.
 

ScrubReborn

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Also I just cannot let this narrative that Geno wouldn't have a cool moveset slide.

The dude turns himself into a cannon to fire a supernova. You don't have to like him, but you can't deny that's objectively cool.
Two words. GENO WHORL

9999_damage_(smrpg).gif


(the real reason he's not in Smash yet is 'cause he's too broken)

I don't expect Geno to take precedent over Sephiroth or Sora
Sora is fully owned by Disney. He's legally no more of a Square character than Geno's a Nintendo one. He's a nonfactor for the chances of other Squenix reps.
 
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Gengar84

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I think Sonic is near the top of the list of third party games to get a second character. The movies have been pretty big since Ultimate and the games are starting to get a mostly positive reception. I think the two most likely characters are Knuckles and Shadow but I could see Eggman or Tails getting in as well.
 

Noipoi

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I do think people are sleeping on the chances of a second Sonic character happening.

Right now the franchise is a huge deal, at least in Europe and Spain.

Sonic Frontiers sold extremely well, the movies have been a huge hit among younger audiences, merch sells like crazy at least in Spain, here in Gran Canaria you cant go anywhere without seeing at least one kid with a Sonic plushie or a Young Adult with a sweater of the character and a long etc...

Also this may not count as much as those other points, but Sonic and Mario both starred on the Día de Reyes parade of Gran Canaria, being literally the first costume characters to appear on It:
View attachment 391876
Kinda goes to show that Sonic is quite relevant among kids today, maybe even more than in the 2000s, so I feel the Smash team adding a new Sonic character to the next Game would be interesting for general audiences.
If you ask me Shadow’s got really good chances
 

Guynamednelson

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Sora is fully owned by Disney. He's legally no more of a Square character than Geno's a Nintendo one. We gotta stop tryna sneak him into Squenix rep discussion.
They still needed to talk to Squenix somewhat. The main issue with getting Sora into Smash turned out to be Tetsuya Nomura wanting to implement such a crossover into KH lore, and Sakurai needing to tell him he doesn't have to.
 

Jotadé

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If you ask me Shadow’s got really good chances
Yeah, I'd say either Shadow, Tails or Knuckles all have really good chances. Not counting on the three of them getting in, but at least one seems quite likely.

I think Shadow's the most likely due to fandemand and the Year Of Shadow, but Tails would be my choice mostly for being one of the biggest 2P characters in gaming alongside Ken and Luigi.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Byleth's image got rehabilitated, though. People were livid when he was added, but people forgot about that reasonably quickly because Byleth has a cool moveset, MKLeo got some results with the character, and Three Houses was a massive success. Walugi is in the same boat as he was before.

If Waluigi's exclusion were to piss off as approximately as many people as Byleth's inclusion pissed off due to being controversies of a similar magnitude, that's a pretty good reason to add Waluigi. It would go to show that a large number of people are very invested in Waluigi's inclusion and that said inclusion is a major expectation of the next Smash.

The point is that The Washington Post thing is overblown to hell and a nothingburger of evidence.

Someone saw a potential low-hanging scoop of controversy because of random nobodies ******** on the internet and decided to make an article about it.
That's all it is.



EDIT: Thinking about it, I'm going to drop the subject here since it's just mentally exhausting to even argue about Waluigi at this point after so many years.
 
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