Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[BritishGuy54]

For a second Sonic character, I can see Eggman, Tails, or Shadow getting the part. If they want a unique villain, it’ll be Eggman, but Tails and Shadow could easily have a case for being semi-clones.

I think people overrate Knuckles’s chances, to be honest. He’s cool, and all. But I think he’s just lower priority.

 

[Will]

I do think people are sleeping on the chances of a second Sonic character happening.

As long as Sonic gets his kit reworked I’m happy with whoever. I’ll even take Tails if I have to.

 

[Jotadé]

As long as Sonic gets his kit reworked I’m happy with whoever. I’ll even take Tails if I have to.

Yeah, I also would love a Sonic kit rework.

Specially now that we have Frontiers, the Drop Dash and more to take from. He has the potential to improve a lot.

 

[Master_Scorpion]

If Pauline got in would she under the Super Mario series or the Donkey Kong series?

Also do you think if King Boo or Captain Toad got in they would come in under their own series or just the Super Mario series as well?

 

[Gengar84]

For a second Sonic character, I can see Eggman, Tails, or Shadow getting the part. If they want a unique villain, it’ll be Eggman, but Tails and Shadow could easily have a case for being semi-clones.

I think people overrate Knuckles’s chances, to be honest. He’s cool, and all. But I think he’s just lower priority.

I think the fact that Knuckles is getting his own spinoff show and was a major focus in the last movie helps. It might just be my own group of friends but he’s generally the most popular character among people I know. He’s also got an assist trophy along with Shadow where Tails and Eggman don’t really have anything comparable. I could honestly see any of the four getting into Smash but I think Knuckles has a pretty decent shot.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Waluigi, Geno, Kamek, King Boo, Paper Mario…

Where the hell are the Toad supporters at today? I ain’t seen a single soul mention him yet.

Toad is probably Smash 7 or 8 at this point unless they surprise us

I do think people are sleeping on the chances of a second Sonic character happening.

Right now the franchise is a huge deal, at least in Europe and Spain.

Sonic Frontiers sold extremely well, the movies have been a huge hit among younger audiences, merch sells like crazy at least in Spain, here in Gran Canaria you cant go anywhere without seeing at least one kid with a Sonic plushie or a Young Adult with a sweater of the character and a long etc...

Also this may not count as much as those other points, but Sonic and Mario both starred on the Día de Reyes parade of Gran Canaria, being literally the first costume characters to appear on It:
View attachment 391876
Kinda goes to show that Sonic is quite relevant among kids today, maybe even more than in the 2000s, so I feel the Smash team adding a new Sonic character to the next Game would be interesting for general audiences.

I'm upset Sonic didn't even get a second character in Ultimate, but Final Fantasy, Street Fighters, Castlevania, etc did

And no, it's not just because of the echoes

 

[Gorgonzales]

If Pauline got in would she under the Super Mario series or the Donkey Kong series?

Also do you think if King Boo or Captain Toad got in they would come in under their own series or just the Super Mario series as well?

For Captain Toad I'm unsure, but he'd probably be under the Mario series since he's only got one spinoff game to his name.

For King Boo, I'm of the opinion he should be under a unique Luigi's Mansion series symbol (and the LM stage should be rebranded as such). Luigi's Mansion has outgrown its one game spinoff status since Brawl and it's kind of weird how it's still considered part of the Mario series. Luigi himself should still be considered a Mario character though, since as a character he's much more than just Luigi's Mansion.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Cite your sources or publicly apologize for your Waluigi libel.

He told me himself while we were playing R.C. Pro-Am.

Where the hell are the Toad supporters at today? I ain’t seen a single soul mention him yet.

He doesn't need mentioning because he's a lock!

 

[fogbadge]

I want Jim Carrey Eggman for Smash

mike pollock or bust

 

[Gengar84]

For Captain Toad I'm unsure, but he'd probably be under the Mario series since he's only got one spinoff game to his name.

For King Boo, I'm of the opinion he should be under a unique Luigi's Mansion series symbol (and the LM stage should be rebranded as such). Luigi's Mansion has outgrown its one game spinoff status since Brawl and it's kind of weird how it's still considered part of the Mario series. Luigi himself should still be considered a Mario character though, since as a character he's much more than just Luigi's Mansion.

The way I see it, if you’re in every Mario spinoff game, you’re a Mario character. A character can be both a Mario character and their own thing at the same time. I never really understood arguments that try to claim that characters originating from Mario games aren’t Mario characters just because they have their own separate side series. Thats basically true for every major Mario character at this point. The biggest stretch is probably Donkey Kong since Mario first appeared in a DK game and not the other way around.

 

[Noipoi]

If Pauline got in would she under the Super Mario series or the Donkey Kong series?

Also do you think if King Boo or Captain Toad got in they would come in under their own series or just the Super Mario series as well?

At this point she’d probably be a Mario character, even if she referenced the DK arcade game. Mario Odyssey was her grand reintroduction to the world, and the Mario franchise.

 

[SharkLord]

I do think people are sleeping on the chances of a second Sonic character happening.

Right now the franchise is a huge deal, at least in Europe and Spain.

Sonic Frontiers sold extremely well, the movies have been a huge hit among younger audiences, merch sells like crazy at least in Spain, here in Gran Canaria you cant go anywhere without seeing at least one kid with a Sonic plushie or a Young Adult with a sweater of the character and a long etc...

Also this may not count as much as those other points, but Sonic and Mario both starred on the Día de Reyes parade of Gran Canaria, being literally the first costume characters to appear on It:
View attachment 391876
Kinda goes to show that Sonic is quite relevant among kids today, maybe even more than in the 2000s, so I feel the Smash team adding a new Sonic character to the next Game would be interesting for general audiences.

Adding to this, I think Shadow has some pretty solid chances right now. He was the guy for much of the 2000's, having his own subplot between SA2 and '06. They shoved everyone beyond the core Classic cast to the sidelines starting with Unleashed, but even then Shadow was still the second most popular character in the franchise for a while. At the very least, he retained popularity long enough for Boom to acknowledge it, and he was the only Assist Trophy to be put in a prominent position for Smash 4's intro. He still got his own DLC in Frontiers too, even if it was super short. For the longest time he got the bulk of attention for potential new Sonic reps.

I think his popularity kinda dipped around the late 2010's, likely because everyone outside of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, and Eggman barely made any appearances in the post-Frontiers era, which itself was pretty light on content in general. There's also the issue of Shadow being put in the Assist Trophy and largely assumed to be off the table for the DLC era of Smash spec, which already had a bias towards unrepresented series. After Sephiroth got in, adding villanous third-parties from represented series became a big topic, so everyone started looking towards Eggman as a new Sonic rep. Shadow kinda drifted out of focus for a while.

But hey, it's the Fearless Year of Shadow. He's in the movies, he's got his own game bundled with the Generations remaster, he's getting crazy Black Arms powers, and he had a giant stack of chocolate pancakes at IHOP. From the looks of it they're bringing Shadow back into the spotlight, and I doubt they'll just drop him after such a big push. I think Shadow's been bumped back up to frontrunner status, at least as far as Sonic characters go

 

[Diddy Kong]

It is funny how the two most popular Mario newcomer candidates are supporting characters exclusive to spinoff games and obviously don't appear in any of the mainline platformers. I guess that does show of much of a reach the Mario brand as a whole has.

With all that said and done, I could see Toad and Paper Mario easily favored over them. Or even Pauline.

 

[Laniv]

Waluigi, Geno, Kamek, King Boo, Paper Mario…

Where the hell are the Toad supporters at today? I ain’t seen a single soul mention him yet.

Me! That's me! I am summoned!

I'd prefer Toad over Waluigi or Geno

He told me himself while we were playing R.C. Pro-Am.

He doesn't need mentioning because he's a lock!

That's very optimistic!

 

[DKing]

I noticed that since brawl the first character they announced was a first party, who do you think it can be a fresh recent Nintendo IP or a long time requested first party characters.

 

[fogbadge]

Waluigi, Geno, Kamek, King Boo, Paper Mario…

Where the hell are the Toad supporters at today? I ain’t seen a single soul mention him yet.

I’ve been busy

 

[Stratos]

Some people want to see the Sheriff from the Nintendo arcade game of the same name of 1979 and I know what I'm writing is not a question, but if he was to appear as a newcomer, which of the two appearances would you like him to have?

 

[CannonStreak]

Some people want to see the Sheriff from the Nintendo arcade game of the same name of 1979 and I know what I'm writing is not a question, but if he was to appear as a newcomer, which of the two appearances would you like him to have?
View attachment 391878
View attachment 391879

I would not mind the second one, but something makes me want to go with the first one.

 

[SPEN18]

That's alright. Frankly, I think you might be right. I mean, don't Toon Link, Jigglypuff, and Wolf, (and Sonic) also count towards 100%? They might represent those final percentages...

Can't remember or find it through a quick search. I can't remember either if you need them to get those levels marked with the crown symbol. But if you have finished every level with a crown symbol on it then that would be the only thing it could be.

 

[DKing]

Mike Jones

Kinda wild that it didn't appears on the spirit boards of smash bros ultimate.

 

[Dinoman96]

Kinda wild that it didn't appears on the spirit boards of smash bros ultimate.

That's literally just because StarTropics has never seen any sort of release in Japan. Smash Bros. is very unforgiving to western only games (hence why Mortal Kombat doesn't seem particularly likely).

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah I think Geno is being overestimated, and Toad is being underestimated.

Toad pretty much can't be beat among potential newcomers in terms of overall notoriety. It's just a pervading perception that he won't happen which is holding him back in speculation. And I don't think there's any hard evidence that Sakurai doesn't think that he'd work or thinks he's best suited to supporting Peach (and by the way I don't actually think that Toads appearing in Peach's moveset even rule out a playable Toad alongside); it's easily possible all of that is just assumed by fans. If you go through all the Mario characters we currently have, you can pretty much reason out the circumstances which led them to being the choice (i.e. I think it's likely incorrect to think of it as Toad just being intentionally passed over every time). But now with the competition thinned down it's easily possible Toad's longstanding and far-reaching recognizability would stand out enough for him to grab a slot. Not to mention his unconventional body type and ability to draw from a wide variety of source materials make for compelling moveset options.

As for Geno, he has to be considered as a third party character, but even on that coin he doesn't get to escape the fact that he's still a minor Mario character. If you're going to go to Square and go through the whole process that every third party has to go through for Geno, then you have to ask yourself not only whether you'd rather be doing all that for another third party character who carries much more clout for that effort, but simultaneously whether you'd rather add another equally or more popular Mario character who is also more generally recognizable with a much longer resume, and all without having to jump through the third party hoops to do it. And fans will continue to clamor "but the remake," but even there it has been very rare for remakes to culminate in exclusive reps in Smash, even for a main protagonist, which Geno is not.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mortal Kombat has seen JP releases... a long time ago(and they still do, but they're not sold in the same way. I forget the exact details, though).

Anyway, it has little presence in Japan in general. But yeah, I'd love to see a character or even some Spirit Events.

 

[superprincess]

I think people are sleeping on the idea of Kamek being added.
View attachment 391875
He's been a lot more prominent lately. He was made playable in the booster course pass, seems to be the main NPC in the new Mario party, and was present in the Super Mario Bros Movie. This is on top of being the main antagonist of the Yoshi games and a side antagonist in many 2D Mario games. I wouldn't go as far as to call him a lock, but I think he's probably the second most likely Marioverse character after Waluigi.

When are people gonna realize this doesn't matter? Toadette, Pauline, and Nabbit have had an increase in appearances too as of late but it doesn't mean that a Smash inclusion is any more likely.

If Pauline got in would she under the Super Mario series or the Donkey Kong series?

Also do you think if King Boo or Captain Toad got in they would come in under their own series or just the Super Mario series as well?

Pauline is explicitly a Mario character now. Her Spirit is under the Mushroom icon. Makes sense, since she's nowhere to be seen in DK's adventures, but frequents the Mario games of the Switch era.

King Boo and Captain Toad would totally be classified as Mario characters. All Luigi's Mansion content in Smash is under the Mario series, and of course they won't re-classify Luigi in Smash 6. "Captain Toad" isn't even a series, it's a spinoff of Super Mario 3D World.

It's nice to see so many fellow Toad supporters! Just a heads up though, he has been getting "overlooked" for 24 years now. I'm never getting my hopes up about him. Toadette/Peachette would be more hype anyway

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pauline from Odyssey(this includes New Donk City as a Stage as well as her Spirit) is under Super Mario(she hasn't been treated as Super Mario under any other context in Smash so far).

Lady, the original, is still listed as DK. So it's more the specific games they're from than any hard rule. And when she had a Trophy, she was listed under DK at the time during Wii U. Same with her Sticker in Brawl, being DK-characters specific. That said, again, it's a matter of context. It's a Donkey Kong & Pauline Sticker. And Odyssey didn't exist yet, so.

But yeah, Pauline does appear to clearly be Super Mario franchise-wise now. Lady, her previous take on the character, is specifically DK. Seems simple in that case~

 

[ScrubReborn]

Some people want to see the Sheriff from the Nintendo arcade game of the same name of 1979 and I know what I'm writing is not a question, but if he was to appear as a newcomer, which of the two appearances would you like him to have?

Very based pick. I approve. I dunno how you could make the OG sprite function as a fighter though, so personally I want him to get a Brawl Pit type redesign. Gruff old aging sheriff with white hairs and a rusted ol' gun. Coolest **** ever.

 

[Louie G.]

My stance on Toad just remains a neutral "I'll believe it when I see it". Sakurai can pull the trigger at any time - we just have to believe at this point the time is specifically right, or he finally came up with some big inspiring hook for the character. Toad has been prominent lately - as he's always been, but now it involves theme park appearances and a major role in a billion dollar grossing movie. He's just as important within the brand as ever, but the brand itself has been reaching into new territory and Toad has followed. Hard to gauge that effect yet.

My concern is that for Sakurai to change his mind about Toad, assuming up to this point he simply hasn't been interested, I feel like a game changer would need to occur or that Toad would be raking in vocal support at the level of Ridley and Co. It's been upwards of 20 years now with no bites, and Toad has been pretty consistently playing the same role for all of that time. So we'll just have to see... of course, I'd gladly welcome him if the stars align. He's undoubtedly one of the most head-scratchingly overdue characters on the roster, I don't think there's a single person who would dispute that much.

On the bright side, Ultimate seems to at least acknowledge Toad's agency more and lets him defend Peach on his own volition. He's still regulated to a pawn for another character, but it's definitely an upgrade from meat shield status. He gets to help out with throws too. Part of me feels like this was a bit of a consolation or at least a course correction acknowledging that criticism of Toad's portrayal.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

”The Rosalina model” only gets applied to Pauline and very flawedly so, considering “Mayor of New Donk City” is a much more vacuous term when trying to translate that into gameplay than “Mother of the Lumas”, but multiple characters in the Mario series have followed the trend of gaining recognition in the main series before settling into the spin-off roster, most importantly the newcomers in Super Mario Wonder (Toadette and Nabbit).

Toad, yeah, would be great if it happened, but nothing has particularly changed for his situation aside from a more distinguished design in the form of Captain Toad settling itself in the little helper role.

 

[Noipoi]

I feel like Captain Toad would've been in already if it weren't for the tricky little factoid that the entire point of his character is that he can't jump.

Funny how things work out

 

[DKing]

he can't jump

I think that hold him back to be in the games despite I like Captain Toad in general, that mechanics would make him the worst characters in the game. Only solution if he is a costume for Toad.

 

[Louie G.]

I feel like Captain Toad would've been in already if it weren't for the tricky little factoid that the entire point of his character is that he can't jump.

I dunno, I moreso feel like the timing wasn't right for him. 3D World was too late to influence Smash 4, we didn't get any first party newcomers as Smash 4 DLC and the roster was cramped as is in Ultimate. Captain / Toad easily could have filled Plant's spot I suppose, but Sakurai was looking for more of a surprise character. I don't think the jumping thing had very much to do with it.

 

[Noipoi]

I dunno, I moreso feel like the timing wasn't right for him. 3D World was too late to influence Smash 4, we didn't get any first party newcomers as Smash 4 DLC and the roster was cramped as is in Ultimate. Captain / Toad easily could have filled Plant's spot I suppose, but Sakurai was looking for more of a surprise character. I don't think the jumping thing had very much to do with it.

Hey I could be wrong. Thats just what I feel in this little old heart of mine.

 

[Dinoman96]

I dunno, I moreso feel like the timing wasn't right for him. 3D World was too late to influence Smash 4, we didn't get any first party newcomers as Smash 4 DLC

What about ?

 

[Louie G.]

What about ?

Oh right... well, I guess that's true. Maybe if Treasure Tracker had released a year later it would have been more optimal for Captain Toad.

 

[fogbadge]

When are people gonna realize this doesn't matter? Toadette, Pauline, and Nabbit have had an increase in appearances too as of late but it doesn't mean that a Smash inclusion is any more likely.

i'd say toadette has had plenty of steady appearances since her debut rather than just of late

It's nice to see so many fellow Toad supporters! Just a heads up though, he has been getting "overlooked" for 24 years now.

see you in the support thread

 

[Sucumbio]

He doesn't need mentioning because he's a lock!

.... Eeeeh ok but maybe not a lock lock like he's definitely up for major consideration especially after his movie appearance but his absence up to now is weirdly specific and to something I don't think is public... But I can't overstate how strange it is he's not a playable character and we're supposed to just accept his package deal that he's peaches spore bag? Nah put some respect on Toad mf can grip

 

[Jotadé]

You know who I would love to see in Smash Bros even if they may be kinda unlikely? Frank West.

Been playing as him a lot on MvC recently and he goes so hard. It is fun beating opponents around with shopping carts and camera photos. Not to mention throwing zombies to the enemies and the alternate costumes he could have.

Probably not happening because Capcom would likely want to push for Resident Evil or DMC more doh, ngl. But yeah, would love him in Smash Bros.

Oh well, hopefully they at least add him to Fortnite. Maybe during Fornitemares.

 

[DKing]

Probably not happening because Capcom would likely want to push for Resident Evil or DMC

Don't forget Monster hunter and Ace attorney they have a big fanbase

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Arguing a Capcom character is pointless.

We all know Amingo is the top priority.

#AmingosAmigos

 

[Borskaboska]

I feel like if captain toad got in, they should lean into his outdoorsy/camping aesthetic.
Like a down special where he starts up a campfire that deals damage to opponents that touch it, but CT would have to keep feeding the fire to keep it from dying out. And also give him a grappling hook.
I think it was source gaming a while ago that had the idea to let him put stuff in/out his backpack to manipulate his own weight, which is interesting.