Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

Don't forget Monster hunter and Ace attorney they have a big fanbase

Monster Hunter yeah, because It is one of Capcom's highest grossing IPs at the moment and they love to have It collab with a lot of other IPs.

Ace Attorney doh? Well, It has a strong presence online, but sales wise Capcom believes It isn't relevant in Europe for really dumb reasons (basically that the first titles on GBA didn't meet sales expectations back then, even though times have changed and more people genuiely want to give the games a chance). This is why Capcom tends to release the Ace Attorney (and MegaMan titles) digital only and without proper localization work. Maybe if we get lucky they translate them into German and french at most, but in spanish and italian? Nope, they think the IP is irrelevant in Spain and Italy.

All of this is why the upcoming physical release of Ace Attorney Investigations in Spain is so important and needs to sell well: because It will show Capcom that times have indeed changed and that nowadays people even close to me want to give the franchise a chance through legal methods and without importing. I personally will buy the collection to help make us heard.

Tl;Dr: Ace Attorney isn't seen as profitable enough in Europe, but there's a chance to change that with the new collection releasing physically over here.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The biggest stretch is probably Donkey Kong since Mario first appeared in a DK game and not the other way around.

So what you're saying is...Waluigi is a Donkey Kong character.

Some people want to see the Sheriff from the Nintendo arcade game of the same name of 1979 and I know what I'm writing is not a question, but if he was to appear as a newcomer, which of the two appearances would you like him to have?

I don't want any Fighter ever to just...look exactly like they did in their original appearance. Like a ****ty sprite or crummy polygon. Seeing a retro character updated with a modern model is half of the fun of a character getting into Smash. I'll tolerate that in Assist Trophies, but not in Fighters.

So far, Steve is the only exception we've had to this. He looks like a Minecraft character, not a Smash character.

Kinda wild that it didn't appears on the spirit boards of smash bros ultimate.

It hurts me that StarTropics and Pro Wrestling didn't even get Spirits...

 

[HyperSomari64]

So what you're saying is...Waluigi is a Donkey Kong character.

Technically yes

 

[ScrubReborn]

The biggest stretch is probably Donkey Kong since Mario first appeared in a DK game and not the other way around.

The way I view Mario and DK is, neither is a spinoff of the other. Both are separate franchises that branched off from the same origin point.

But yeah I guess if we had to choose one technically DK is the originator lol.

 

[HyperSomari64]

It hurts me that StarTropics and Pro Wrestling didn't even get Spirits...

The first is because it was never released in Japan, and the latter because Nintendo just couldn't find hi-res artwork in time

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Ace Attorney doh? Well, It has a strong presence online, but sales wise Capcom believes It isn't relevant in Europe for really dumb reasons (basically that the first titles on GBA didn't meet sales expectations back then, even though times have changed and more people genuiely want to give the games a chance). This is why Capcom tends to release the Ace Attorney (and MegaMan titles) digital only and without proper localization work. Maybe if we get lucky they translate them into German and french at most, but in spanish and italian? Nope, they think the IP is irrelevant in Spain and Italy.

The ace attorney trilogy, the apolo justice trilogy and the upcoming Investigations collection are playable in French and German. The only one that didn't get a translation in those languages is the Great attorney chronicles collection.

 

[Deleted member]

The ace attorney trilogy, the apolo justice trilogy and the upcoming Investigations collection are playable in French and German. The only one that didn't get a translation in those languages is the Great attorney chronicles collection.

Yup, that's what I said.

But yeah, thinking more about It I feel that maybe Ace Attorney could get in through a Fire Emblem/Arms/Earthbound situation where even though the main company (Capcom in this case) doesn't deem them relevant in specific regions, they can add the character to Smash to potentially push sales.

So yeah, maybe Ace Attorney is more likely than I thought.

 

[CannonStreak]

You know, as unlikely as it is, I would actually love to play as Phoenix Wright in a Smash Bros. game. I best some of his moves could come from Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Those moves seemed a bit unorthodox in that game, but we honestly need that kind of stuff in Smash Bros., right?

 

[Laniv]

I feel like Captain Toad would've been in already if it weren't for the tricky little factoid that the entire point of his character is that he can't jump.

Funny how things work out

Something something Ridley is too big

Just give him Steve/Kazuya height jumps. Easy.

I think that hold him back to be in the games despite I like Captain Toad in general, that mechanics would make him the worst characters in the game. Only solution if he is a costume for Toad.

Alternatively, do this.

 

[superprincess]

i'd say toadette has had plenty of steady appearances since her debut rather than just of late

She wasn't appearing as a playable character in mainline games.

She actually wasn't even a lock for Mario Party or Kart, and did not appear in most sports games until the mid 2010s.

 

[CannonStreak]

Just a little heads up.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I do wonder if this will influence an character from Urban Champion's chances in the next Smash Bros., even if the chances have to be small?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Just a little heads up.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I do wonder if this will influence an character from Urban Champion's chances in the next Smash Bros., even if the chances have to be small?

What games are on the Japanese one?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Just a little heads up.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I do wonder if this will influence an character from Urban Champion's chances in the next Smash Bros., even if the chances have to be small?

Not any more than Donkey Kong Jr., Mach Rider or Ossan (from Golf) from the same set.

Or literally any other character from a game that is on the Switch Online.

 

[CannonStreak]

Not any more than Donkey Kong Jr., Mach Rider or Ossan (from Golf) from the same set.

Yeah, I thought so. Just wanted to ask if that was okay, though.

 

[Opossum]

Honestly I'm just glad Mach Rider's finally on it. It was INCREDIBLY weird that it wasn't on there for like, seven years when it usually came right at the beginning for the various Virtual Consoles.

 

[Speed Weed]

People's attention will likely be on the Rare titles and missing first-party stuff, but I am losing my mind at Atlantis no Nazo showing up. That game's one of those infamous touchstones of the Famicom era for the amount of bull**** it throws at you and the fact that it is now accessible internationally for a wide audience is absolutely hilarious

 

[Laniv]

It's nice to see so many fellow Toad supporters! Just a heads up though, he has been getting "overlooked" for 24 years now. I'm never getting my hopes up about him. Toadette/Peachette would be more hype anyway

Transforming into Peachette is unique, but as much as it sucks to admit, you and I both know Toadette's best shot is as an Echo of Toad, Captain or otherwise

 

[DarthEnderX]

Just a little heads up.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Holy ****, is it kusoge month?

What a cavalcade of garbage.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Just a little heads up.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I do wonder if this will influence an character from Urban Champion's chances in the next Smash Bros., even if the chances have to be small?

I wish Renegade would get added at some point.

 

[ShotoStar]

Just a little heads up.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I do wonder if this will influence an character from Urban Champion's chances in the next Smash Bros., even if the chances have to be small?

I'm really happy that Mach Rider was finally added. It was a game that felt really weird to leave out since it was released on every Virtual Console and is a notable first-party NES game. For the longest time, The Mysterious Murasame Castle and Mach Rider were my two biggest requests to be added on the NES NSO so now that they're finally here it feels satisfying to know they're not left unacknowledged on prior consoles. Also absolutely not, this does not mean Urban Champion's chances have raised at all. If we get him it'll be for reasons outside of this, if we don't then it'll just be another day that ends in Y

 

[Simnm]

To be honest...regardless of what he said, I honestly do have to somewhat question how much Sakurai actually wanted to add Geno considering the guy got passed over for not one (), not two () but three () different Square-Enix owned characters. Doesn't seem like he was actually that huge of a priority. Even Banjo-Kazooie were the very first characters we got from Microsoft, over bigger picks such as Minecraft Steve and Master Chief.

Of course, all of this was before the Mario RPG remake. It really feels like it's truly do or die for Geno the next Smash.

Steve was negotiated first
Banjo was just the extra

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Random idea for Little Mac: We're going with the Star Punch idea everyone wants. Straight Lunge is gone in favor of of an uppercut that on it's own isn't very threatening, but is enhanced by his star meter. The star meter can hold three stars, which he gains by parrying, dodging an attack, triggering Slip Counter, hitting an opponent while armoring through an attack, or by doing a full taunt while being completely uninterrupted.

Here's the new idea part: While he has stars, he can smash input his other special moves to use EX versions of them (probably called Star Special Moves officially). Star Uppercut becomes a Dolphin Slash like up special that lacks the disjointed range of its inspiration (or much range at all), but has low end lag, giving you another option to reach platforms. It also acts like Melee's Dolphin Slash, as B Reversing it can make it a deadly edge-guard tool should you get the ability to set it up (which is going to be much harder for Little Mac to do). On the ground, you can control the height of Star Uppercut similarly to how you would control a short or full hop. As for the other two moves, Star Haymaker has full invincibility at the beginning of the move, and Star Counter can be canceled similar to Focus Attack.

It would probably need tweaks, but would (hopefully) make Little Mac harder to run away from, and incentivize opponents to approach him because he gets more powerful and more mobile if you leave him alone. EDIT: At the very least, it would make the mechanic a lot less binary than what's essentially a non-time based Wario Waft.

 

[Louie G.]

Steve was negotiated first
Banjo was just the extra

This is unfounded, at least in these explicit terms. What you're misconstruing is the fact that Minecraft led the way for Nintendo and Microsoft to collaborate - this means that the presence of Minecraft on Nintendo consoles, starting in 3DS / Wii U era, was the beginning of a strong partnership between the two companies. So it was Minecraft on Nintendo consoles that helped Banjo join... but it's not necessarily Steve's doing.

I recall murmurs of Steve being in talks as far back as 2015, which may also be what you're thinking about. It should be acknowledged that 2015 is also the year Minecraft came to Wii U. We can speculate all day about what this entailed. But I do find it strange that serious discussion would have started so long in advance but not manifested until FP2 - I think it's more practical to assume this began as a "wouldn't it be cool" hypothetical conversation that eventually manifested into what we have today. For what it's worth, after Banjo's presumed ballot performance it's very possible these talks began quite early too.

The main issue I have with this is that Banjo is cited as an "extra". Both were negotiated on their own terms. I'm sure it was easier to work out one after the other had been sorted out, whoever was nailed down first, but I believe these two were done largely in tandem and not as an "oh, by the way" grab.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Steve did start negotiations first, but Banjo & Kazooie got successfully licensed first. One of the few simple situations we know of, heh.

 

[Noipoi]

Sakurai visited the Microsoft building and while they were discussing Steve he noticed Banjo & Kazooie in the trash bin. And he was like "Yo can I have those guys too?" and Phil Spencer was like "Oh **** I forgot we had them lol."

Banjo made it to Smash first because Steve was fashionably late (typical)

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Sakurai visited the Microsoft building and while they were discussing Steve he noticed Banjo & Kazooie in the trash bin. And he was like "Yo can I have those guys too?" and Phil Spencer was like "Oh **** I forgot we had them lol."

Banjo made it to Smash first because Steve was fashionably late (typical)

Banjo had to kiss the nugget.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I've always found It a little odd that Steve's negotiations took about 6 years while Banjo's only took one.
I know Minecraft is a huge property, but 6 years for a crossover appearance in a fighting game sounds kinda insane to me. Even Sora took two years at most.

Unless, those one or two years are the "official" licensing process but the higher-up talks start out way sooner.

 

[NintenRob]

I've always found It a little odd that Steve's negotiations took about 6 years while Banjo's only took one.
I know Minecraft is a huge property, but 6 years for a crossover appearance in a fighting game sounds kinda insane to me. Even Sora took two years at most.

Unless, those one or two years are the "official" licensing process but the higher-up talks start out way sooner.

We can actually see some of the difficulties involved with Steve with the finished product. We didn't get any of the original Minecraft Music

 

[Curious Villager]

Just a little heads up.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I do wonder if this will influence an character from Urban Champion's chances in the next Smash Bros., even if the chances have to be small?

Wait, did it seriously take Nintendo 7 years to release Urban Champion to NSO?

That's usually one of the first NES games they tend to promote in VC's, NES compilations and retro nostalgia references in the past along with stuff like Ice climber, Clu Clu Land, Excite Bike, Balloon Fight etc...

 

[fogbadge]

She wasn't appearing as a playable character in mainline games.

She actually wasn't even a lock for Mario Party or Kart, and did not appear in most sports games until the mid 2010s.

i always forget about the sports games

I've always found It a little odd that Steve's negotiations took about 6 years while Banjo's only took one.
I know Minecraft is a huge property, but 6 years for a crossover appearance in a fighting game sounds kinda insane to me. Even Sora took two years at most.

Unless, those one or two years are the "official" licensing process but the higher-up talks start out way sooner.

well the mistake you've made there is assuming the licensing process would be the same for everyone. different franchises are handled differently, some are a package deal some you have do everything differently. then of course there'll be different people who have to be negotiated with

 

[Geno Boost]

Mario 100% should not be a stance character because he needs to be beginner friendly and the mechanic is pretty antithetical to that. The idea of power ups changing neutral special might work since it does for Kirby (but Kirby uses game design techniques that teach you how abilities work that wouldn't apply here), but even then it's hard to come up with a way to change his neutral special that wouldn't be kinda awkward to use.

If we were to implement power up mechanics, I'd give him a standard meter that gives him the Fire Flower when you fill it. You could make the meter function similarly to how the mechanic works in its home series as well by having it reward combos with more meter, and taking damage would remove it, or something along those lines.

Beyond that, perhaps his smash attacks could use certain power ups? It'd really depend on which ones used in what way since I don't think it would work at all if it required a costume change, but you'd have a bit more leeway there.


What I'd really like to see is Toad and/or Captain Toad added as the stance character that explores the design of Super Mario Bros.'s power up mechanics. Since this time of move set wouldn't work for Mario, or by extension, Luigi, Toad seems to be the next best thing since he's about the only other character that's tied to the main series and doesn't have a whole lot else going on. I mean, Captain Toad has the no jump thing, but that's not a great mechanic for a platform fighter anyway, and they could easily reference it with a higher weight value for his size, and a low jump height, which playable Toads consistently have anyway. Toad also isn't beholden to representing the series in its entirety, so they're free to pick what works rather than what's currently relevant (especially since it's not a whole lot, and what's relevant now won't be in a year or two).

The only way I see them changing Mario is if they try to make him more different from dr. Mario or giving Mario echo fighter with old moveset like robo mario with FLUDD for example but yeah unlikely to happen

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

Just a little heads up.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I do wonder if this will influence an character from Urban Champion's chances in the next Smash Bros., even if the chances have to be small?

I thought that Donkey Kong Jr. Math will be forgotten by being a educational weak game,then this game returns on Switch?

And if DK Jr. was in Smash,the pink version of himself would be easly an alternate costume

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I've always found It a little odd that Steve's negotiations took about 6 years while Banjo's only took one.
I know Minecraft is a huge property, but 6 years for a crossover appearance in a fighting game sounds kinda insane to me. Even Sora took two years at most.

Unless, those one or two years are the "official" licensing process but the higher-up talks start out way sooner.

We can actually see some of the difficulties involved with Steve with the finished product. We didn't get any of the original Minecraft Music

Now that I think about it, there probably was just a lot more moving parts:

1. Making deals with Microsoft
2. Making deals, or at least collaborating with Mojang
3. Attempting to make a deal with C418, which fell through because he didn't want them owning the remixes of his music.
4. Planning out and implementing the character in the first place

I'd ask why they didn't add the new tracks they've been adding, but I think the only one that would have existed at the time was Pigstep, and even then music negotiations might have been completed by that time (the song was released only a month after the Minecraft Dungeons tracks, but that still could have been enough).

EDIT: I decided to try and predict which modern Minecraft tracks would get added (without accounting for medleys). Here's what I came up with:

• Pigstep (Stereo Mix)
• otherside (Remix)
• Labryinthine (Remix)
• Relic (Remix)
• Eld Unknown (Remix)
• Creator (Remix)
• Precipice

Also, if you only want to listen to just one of these, pick Precipice. Holy wow that one goes hard. Easily my favorite of the upbeat tracks. Creator is pretty darn good too.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

well the mistake you've made there is assuming the licensing process would be the same for everyone. different franchises are handled differently, some are a package deal some you have do everything differently. then of course there'll be different people who have to be negotiated with

Okay, but six years? Making Smash Ultimate took three years. An entire AAA game takes about as much time.
In fact, six years means that negotiating a Smash character + a stage + some songs + a bunch of jpegs took just about as long as making the entire Mario movie.
A movie like that has a ton of moving parts, since the parent company has to make sure that the portrayal of multiple characters stays appropriate for 90 minutes. Then there's the celebrity voice actors and all the outside music licensing, like Take on me, not to mention the production side of things which takes a ton of time. Compare all of that with what goes into a fighter pass pack.
Even Sora, who involves not only Disney but also Square, must not have taken more than a couple of years from the idea to the finished product.

All this to say, there must be some kind of miscommunication in this whole six years thing. Maybe they first came up with the idea during Smash 4, it didn't work out, and they tried again with Ultimate.
Six years of actual constant negotiations for such a relatively small amount of content seems completely absurd to me. What do you even talk about for six years?

 

[ninjahmos]

RE: Scorpion

Remember how we said Mortal Kombat isn't well-known in Japan?

Yeah… if Scorpion ever gets revealed, which I doubt he will, most people in Japan are gonna be like "Who the **** is this guy?"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Do you guys think they'll add Minecraft Legends music if Steve comes back? If so, what are your wants/predictions?

 

[DKing]

RE: Scorpion

Remember how we said Mortal Kombat isn't well-known in Japan?

Yeah… if Scorpion ever gets revealed, which I doubt he will, most people in Japan are gonna be like "Who the **** is this guy?"

Yeah they will do that they will react the same way when little mac was reveal, saying smash bros is becoming a Western game.

Do you guys think they'll add Minecraft Legends music if Steve comes back? If so, what are your wants/predictions?

That can happen because we lack of music from Minecraft in the game.

 

[fogbadge]

Okay, but six years? Making Smash Ultimate took three years. An entire AAA game takes about as much time.
In fact, six years means that negotiating a Smash character + a stage + some songs + a bunch of jpegs took just about as long as making the entire Mario movie.
A movie like that has a ton of moving parts, since the parent company has to make sure that the portrayal of multiple characters stays appropriate for 90 minutes. Then there's the celebrity voice actors and all the outside music licensing, like Take on me, not to mention the production side of things which takes a ton of time. Compare all of that with what goes into a fighter pass pack.
Even Sora, who involves not only Disney but also Square, must not have taken more than a couple of years from the idea to the finished product.

All this to say, there must be some kind of miscommunication in this whole six years thing. Maybe they first came up with the idea during Smash 4, it didn't work out, and they tried again with Ultimate.
Six years of actual constant negotiations for such a relatively small amount of content seems completely absurd to me. What do you even talk about for six years?

well there must have been some miscommunication as they said five years not six

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Surprised that it took Steve years to get in when Banjo got in faster

Makes me question how Ultimate would've been if Steve was held until the next game as one of the first third-party characters.

So let's discuss the idea of characters from a series. Which series do you guys think would have potential for newcomers?

Mario - Good chance with plenty of selections
DK - Dixie is only big character left
Zelda - Needs a newcomer that's not Link/Zelda/Ganondorf
Metroid - Has potential for DLC.
Yoshi - Solo rep
Kirby - Potentially Bandanna Dee
Star Fox - Right now no.
Pokemon - This one is one of the questions on who due go Gen 9
Mother - Ness and Lucas are fine
F-Zero - Black Shadow would be a nice Echo
Ice Climbers - Solo rep
Fire Emblem - Most likely gonna get a newcomer, but who? DLC is a possibility
Game & Watch - Solo rep
Kid Irceus - Roster is fine
Wario - Ashley would be a nice addition. Overwise, solo rep
Metal Gear Solid - Solo rep
Sonic - LONG overdue for a second rep
Pikmin - I'll say give Olimar another fighter to join. Wasn't Louie supposed to join as a clone in Wii U/3DS?
ROB - Solo rep
Animal Crossing - Villager and Isabelle are fine
Megaman - Zero? Overwise solo rep
Wii Fit - Solo rep
Punch-out - Solo rep
Mii Fighters - Maybe a Mii Mage
PAC-MAN - Solo rep
Xenoblade - Current reps are fine
Duck Hunt - Solo rep
Street Fighters - Maybe Chun-Li added
Final Fantasy - I'd add Tifa
Bayonetta - Solo rep
Splatoon - Add another fighter
Castlevania - The reps are fine
Persona - Solo rep
Dragon Quest - Solo rep
Banjo - Solo rep
SNK - Solo rep
ARMS - This one is a toss up. Another fighter would be nice
Minecraft - Solo rep
Tekken - Solo rep
Kingdom Hearts - Solo rep

 

[BritishGuy54]

The rotating casts that got new games since Ultimate are obvious picks. It’s clear why they were prioritised in the Fighters Pass and why they will likely still be prioritised in even a slim newcomer roster like Ultimate’s base game had.

Fire Emblem, Pokémon, and Xenoblade will all likely get newcomers for new protagonists and monsters. These series are best viewed as ‘franchises of franchises’ in a way, with new unique ideas and characters to implement.

Splatoon’s rise in stock is bound to get it a newcomer. I can see this and Xenoblade being a Smash 4 Kid Icarus/Fire Emblem scenario where we get a new unique character and a new echo fighter.

Animal Crossing and Pikmin could get a new face, but I imagine it’s lower priority as it may borrow a lot from Villager and Isabelle.

Mario could either remain as is or get a few new faces. Zelda has been stagnant since Brawl and being honest, I would not be surprised if that doesn’t change. Kirby finally feels ripe for bringing Bandana Dee in finally.

I’m not going to go over what series are most likely to lose characters because that is a can of worms no one wants to open.