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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Right. But my point was that I'm using it as Neutral A, and that doesn't work really well as a better Reflector. As a Neutral B, your idea does fit better for the Reflector thing. Not what I'm going for either way. Hope that clears up what I mean.

There's no issue with a Move overall having more than one Move in a property(Samus has two Missile forms, for instance). That's not even counting stuff like Judgment, heh. I mean, unless it counts as cheating per Swamp's question, which is fair.
Which move is Neutral A here, jab? Or something else?

Because jab being a chargeable energy projectile that can stun and cancel reflectors is kinda confusing me, so I feel like it's not that but I'm not sure lol
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Which move is Neutral A here, jab? Or something else?

Because jab being a chargeable energy projectile that can stun and cancel reflectors is kinda confusing me, so I feel like it's not that but I'm not sure lol
No, it's a bit more complicated;

Thunder Punch acts as normal or can deflect a fired off Energy Ball.

Energy Ball only exists if you "hold it down", and it becomes a projectile with multiple properties. While it can be Reflected by another character(Ganondorf aside), it'll knock them out of their Reflect state(so for instance, Fox's Reflector immediately goes down), but Ganondorf cannot reflect it back again, just deflect it away.

It's basically multiple properties that actually is based upon how Energy Ball is to an easier degree. Normally, it can't be reflected bar in OOT by a Spin Attack. This is too obtuse and complicated to use its more accurate properties. This way, you still get much of the concept. Ganondorf cannot re-reflect his Energy Ball either, but being able to Deflect it helps make it useful but unique.

That said, him being able to Deflect a Projectile with his Neutral A makes sense in return. Just hard to time, but cool when it works. No reason to keep it solely for Energy Ball, heh.

Ooooooh yeah that doesn't really work at all. My mistake, sorry. I think I was merging my idea with yours in my head.
No worries~ Deflect and Reflect are very odd in Smash. Few have Deflectors in general. So the confusion gets worse even then.
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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Let's play a game, pick a character in Ultimate that you want changed.

Your job is to redesign the character, but you can only change three moves. That's it. Nothing else.

What do you do?
Donkey Kong
Neutral Special: Barrel Throw
Side Special: Vine Swing
Forward Smash: Giant Punch

I wanted to change the Up Special to Barrel Cannon, but then Donkey Kong’s recovery game would probably be too good.

You know it really bothers me that DK is shown swinging on a vine in his mural art, but can’t do so in Smash.

IMG_4885.png
 

fogbadge

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Let's play a game, pick a character in Ultimate that you want changed.

Your job is to redesign the character, but you can only change three moves. That's it. Nothing else.

What do you do?
Byleth. swap out his three specials that badly try and mash the signature weapons of other characters together and give him some specials based on his own stuff. let me browse the wiki and get back to you on the specifics
 

DarthEnderX

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Byleth. swap out his three specials that badly try and mash the signature weapons of other characters together and give him some specials based on his own stuff. let me browse the wiki and get back to you on the specifics
So...you'd remove the only stuff that makes Byleth NOT just another generic FE Lord and replace it with...his generic FE Lord stuff...
 

Perkilator

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Let's play a game, pick a character in Ultimate that you want changed.

Your job is to redesign the character, but you can only change three moves. That's it. Nothing else.

What do you do?
I was gonna say Ganondorf until I saw the three moves rule. Sorry, TotK Ganondorf…

So instead, I’m gonna be a basic Benson and changes three things about Little Mac.
  1. Completely eschew his air weakness (Complete with his aerial attacks being completely revamped, like TKOWL’s interpretation)
  2. Down Special is now Star Counter, where each successful counter gives Little Mac a star that determines the power of his KO Punch. You can cancel the counter by quickly tilting the control stick left or right.
  3. Straight Lunge and Jolt Haymaker are moved onto one special. Straight Lunge is the grounded version and Jolt Haymaker is the aerial version, the latter of which can cancel into Rising Uppercut (which actually has height now).
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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So...you'd remove the only stuff that makes Byleth NOT just another generic FE Lord and replace it with...his generic FE Lord stuff...
Byleth has quite a few things he could do that other lords can't/don't:
  • The Adjunct System: Byleth could have been made a summoner using this mechanic as inspiration, summoning the three house lords for stage control, and having to protect them so they aren't removed in play either for a bit, or the whole stock, or something.
  • Faith Magic: Robin has done the whole swords and sorcery thing, but Byleth being proficient in light magic could be used to give him some interesting projectiles, or other types of attacks, especially with Fire Emblem: Three Houses giving light magic a bunch of attack spells.
  • Brawling: They probably didn't go with this for a number of reasons, but Byleth could have easily been a mix of swordfighter and brawler playstyles, with more close range scrapping tools than the former archetype, and a lot more beeg sword normals than the latter.
  • Battalions: Not entirely sure how they'd incorporate something like this, but the ability to send an army at the opponent would be pretty funny.
  • Divine Pulse: So many people say it should just be a counter, but it really doesn't have to be, and could end up being one of the most unique mechanics in the cast.
 

Gorgonzales

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Let's play a game, pick a character in Ultimate that you want changed.

Your job is to redesign the character, but you can only change three moves. That's it. Nothing else.

What do you do?
Three moves isn't nearly enough to fix Olimar, so I'll go with Wario.

Neutral Special is still a command grab, but now he does it with his hands instead of his mouth. Instead of biting for the pummel, he shakes his opponent. It can lead to a lot more varied finishing throws like a standard toss or a Wild Swing Ding (using a longer animation than his Back Throw currently does), and even a piledriver if used in the air.

Side Special is the Shoulder Bash, a well-rounded and powerful burst movement tool.

1717940580486.png


Down Special has him pull out a Warioware Bomb timer from his sleeve and place it in the air in front of him. It goes off in four seconds, with the time being indicated by the length of the fuse. It can't be set off by anything else. This move is intended to give Wario an opportunity to knock his opponent into it for a finishing blow, or can be used to trap an opponent at ledge and limit their options. Either way, it creates a sort of "microgame" for both players, befitting of Warioware in a more elegant way than just summoning a gaudy motorcycle.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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Let's play a game, pick a character in Ultimate that you want changed.

Your job is to redesign the character, but you can only change three moves. That's it. Nothing else.

What do you do?
Doing Ganondorf:

Neutral-B gets changed from Warlock Punch to Dead Man's Volley, a strong projectile that can be charged and allows Ganondorf to float. Up-tilt gets changed to his old Smash 4 Up-Smash and finally his jab where he summons his sword from Tears of the Kingdom and does a three-hit sword strike.

Edit: Of course everyone picked Ganondorf...
 
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Perkilator

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fogbadge

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Byleth. swap out his three specials that badly try and mash the signature weapons of other characters together and give him some specials based on his own stuff. let me browse the wiki and get back to you on the specifics
I do apologise for the delay but here we go

neutral special: Seraphim - chargeable projectile, think sephiroth's but light
sown special: Fortify - creates a barrier that absorbs energy projectiles and reflects solid ones. can only take some many hits before breaking and then will need to recharge
side special: Aura - combing the spell with their sword for a light based strike

took a bit of artistic licence with those moves but hey that's smash for you
 

Opossum

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This made me think; how would you guys fix certain characters without the "three moves only" restriction?

...I just wanted an excuse to post my Ganondorf rework.
Honestly I just think the restriction makes for a better question. Anybody can just completely rework an entire moveset...but limitation leads to creativity. It not only more closely emulates how moveset overhauls typically work (see Pit in Smash 4), but it also makes the three moves you choose to change really count.
 

Sucumbio

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Well if it was never obvious which cast member people are still in most favor of a rework it's Ganondorf and his specials precisely since his normals are all unique at this point but yeah TotK should give us at least something new besides further reworked normals which I anticipate, but as for how to replace the slow-falcon specials they've hesitated to do so thus far, so all I can do is hope it'll happen.
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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You could change 3 of Ganondorf’s moves and I’d be happy.

Neutral Special: Dead Man’s Volley
Down Special: Runs forward with sword in hands, press button again to swing sword
Up Special: Levitates upward, press button again to slam fist down to the ground.

I’d like for a couple of his standard moves like neutral air to be changed too, but other than that I’d be pretty happy.
 

Gengar84

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Great news for any other Perfect Dark fans out there. It looks like they didn’t end up cancelling the new game after all. Maybe there’s still some hope for Joanna Dark in Smash. A lot of it probably depends on the reception to this game. I hope it’s good.


On the subject of Ganondorf, I finally just beat Tears of the Kingdom today and now I know what everyone is talking about in regards to his Smash potential from his boss fight. There’s definitely a lot to work with for a really cool moveset. Still might prefer more of an amalgamation moveset rather than strictly just going off his TotK battle but he’d be fun either way. I still probably have around 30 Sky shrines to find and tons of armor left to upgrade so I could keep playing if I want to.
 
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BuckleyTim

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Still feeling mixed on Perfect Dark reboot. The gameplay looks cool in theory but it stills feels like it's trying to shove things into a far grittier mold than the originals were supposed to be. Maybe it can win me over but I'm not feeling it as of now.

On the subject of another fps character Microsoft came to own via buyout... they're just giving Doomguy everything and more in the new game, aren't they? Feels like a Mario game the way it's so clear that the mechanics seem to stem from the designers going "wouldn't it be cool if THIS happened" and going from there.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Donkey Kong:
  1. Dash Attack has a jump cancel window at the end of the move, allowing you to move forward in the air using the character's ground speed values as a mixup to your approach. Doing so is a commitment though since changing direction takes longer with the increased speed, and Donkey Kong's prime aerial spacing tool, back aerial, isn't nearly as useful while doing it.
  2. For side special, I'm stealing Duke of Dork's barrel command grab idea, but instead of the weird clap with two halves of a barrel, he just slams one down, shattering the barrel if the attack misses. If it hits, the opponent is essentially now the barrel item, and can be thrown around as such. Assuming it wouldn't be too much of a logistical hassle to make work, you'd even see the opponent's legs dangling out the top.
    • Using side special while holding a barrel rolls it along the ground like in the original Donkey Kong arcade.
    • To make the obvious paralysis -> Giant Punch shenanigans less degenerate, opponents trapped in barrels will take less knockback.
    • Like with most things like this, opponents will break out of barrels after a set time, and can mash to make it happen faster.
  3. Final Smash is now based off of the ending of Donkey Kong Country Returns. He jumps in a new barrel design complete with a ton of TNT surrounding it. The whole thing explodes, and if opponents are caught in the blast, a cutscene plays showing Donkey Kong getting launched above the moon, and punching it down as he descends. Cutting back into gameplay, a giant moon slams into the stage not unlike how the Moon Assist Trophy works now before popping back into place as if nothing had happened.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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I'm guessing next week; announcement on the 18th for air on the 20th. Gives it just enough space from the other summer announcements and not so late that it's dragged out to the end of the month.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I don't necessarily have 3 changes for Ridley, but one I think would be super cool would be to give him a flight mechanic. It acts a lot like if Peach's float and Robo Burner had a baby, giving you the ability to fly slowly in any direction by holding the jump button. While flying, Ridley would be limited to two attacks:
  1. The iconic pogo tail attack that hits opponents that are below him, and launches him upward if it hits the ground.
  2. A fireball shot at a diagonally downward angle.
For extra sauce, he will enter flight mode if you press and hold the jump button while before the normal input buffer for an aerial attack (meaning he won't jump instead, like with how float works), and Ridley can use his regular aerial attacks as soon as he exits his flight mode. This means you can do some MvCI flight cancel combo type stuff, at least at low percents.
 

TheQuester

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Let's play a game, pick a character in Ultimate that you want changed.

Your job is to redesign the character, but you can only change three moves. That's it. Nothing else.

What do you do?
Hero: Side Air: Falcon Slash: Two incredibly fast slashes in front of him, one of the fastests Side Airs in the game.
Hero: Back Air: Back Atcha: A very unique Back Air, regulary is just a straight angled shield tackle used backwards, but if a proyectile hits the shield while the move is active it will be reflected, if a move hits the shield while the move is active, the shield will glow and deal damage to the oponent.
Hero: Down Special: Command Menu (new moves)
. Fuddle: the area of effect is in front of hero, a character affected by Fuddle will not follow the player orders for 6s, for example will not do anything when imputed, might start randomly jump, might perfmorm a random attack, might hit iself....CPUs are also affected by this.
. Dazzle: White fog aparears, the characters affected will miss their moves 60% of the time.
. Swords Dance: Hero's sword turn blue and starts slashing around him on a zone, dealing around 7 hits, the last hit sends enemies flying frontwards.
 
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TheFirstPoppyBro

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. Fuddle: the area of effect is in front of hero, a character affected by Fuddle will not follow the player orders for 6s, for example will not do anything when imputed, might start randomly jump, might perfmorm a random attack, might hit iself....CPUs are also affected by this.
. Dazzle: White fog aparears, the characters affected will miss their moves 60% of the time.
I really don't like the idea of giving Hero new moves that can rip control away from me for 6 seconds (a bit less than half the length of Luigi's Negative Zone in Brawl) while he potentially cycles through Command Menu, gets his buffs, and crits me to death or force me to deal with move accuracy RNG worse than Dynamic Punch or Gen 7 Dark Void in Pokemon (50%, for the record) but in a fighting game lol
 

Laniv

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So, do we think we'll get a direct this week?
If not this week, then definitely next week.

. Fuddle: the area of effect is in front of hero, a character affected by Fuddle will not follow the player orders for 6s, for example will not do anything when imputed, might start randomly jump, might perfmorm a random attack, might hit iself....CPUs are also affected by this.
This move sounds absolutely evil. Let's make it happen.
 

Borskaboska

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Let's play a game, pick a character in Ultimate that you want changed.

Your job is to redesign the character, but you can only change three moves. That's it. Nothing else.

What do you do?
I'll do Mario.
Down B- Cap throw: The cappy throw from odyssey, a multihit projectile that stays in place if B is held, and returns to him when it's released. Jumping on cappy bounces him upwards, but also the opponent, so it works like Pac's trampoline. Throwing cappy can also be used to deflect projectiles. I'm generally against move references that only refer to one game because they eventually get dated, which is why i dont like FLUDD. But i feel like a cap throw works better than FLUDD because, even if odyssey gets old, mario is always going to have a hat that he can throw.

Side B- Cape Bounce: Still uses mario's cape, but works more like the glide in World. Mario leaps forwards in an arc while holding onto his cape, a burst movement tool a bit like mac's side B but higher. Pressing back causes him to pull back, potentially letting him leap forwards again if timed right. Holding Down causes him to dive downwards, causing a shockwave hitbox if he hits the stage.

Final Smash- Super Mario Combo: The joke about Mario in smash being based on Ryu, with the fireball being the hadoken, Jump Punch the shoryuken, the Spin the Tatsu, but now his final smash is based on the Super Combo technique from Street Fighter Turbo. Mario performs an invincible series of attacks while moving forwards, with each hit cycling between different power ups from the mario series. A dive from his cat suit, crushing them with the tanuki statue, pelting them with hammers from the hammer suit, a trunk attack from his elephant power up, and ending with a rising tackle from his wing cap.
 

Gengar84

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I think my favorite idea for an attack I’ve had is Magus’ up special, Black Hole:

Black Hole – Magus creates a small black hole, and teleports away at a similar distance to Zelda’s teleport, creating an exit point where he emerges. This would then function like the Stage Builder warp points. The black hole would remain on the battlefield for a short time or until Magus uses another up special.

I’d love to see more wacky moves like this that do something completely unique. I feel like those warp points in stage builder could be an awesome effect for an attack. The most obvious character for a move like this is Chell from Portal but I think it fits Magus really well as well.

Does anyone else have a favorite attack idea they’ve come up with that you think could be a lot of fun?
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Hero: Back Air: Back Atcha: A very unique Back Air, regulary is just a straight angled shield tackle used backwards, but if a proyectile hits the shield while the move is active it will be reflected, if a move hits the shield while the move is active, the shield will glow and deal damage to the oponent.
I'm imagining Palutena's back air, but it's also a counter/reflector and it's terrifying.
 

Perkilator

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Let's play a game, pick a character in Ultimate that you want changed.

Your job is to redesign the character, but you can only change three moves. That's it. Nothing else.

What do you do?
You know what? I’ve decided to try this again, but with a fairer option in Mario.
  1. Side B: Roll
    • Mario rolls forward to attack opponents. If the attack is used in the air, Mario bounces in an upward curve while rolling. This is based on a move Mario’s had since 3D Land, serving as his answer to a forward rushing attack.
  2. Down B: Spin
    • Mario spins once around himself, which can also reflect projectiles. This is based on the Star Spin from the Galaxy games.
  3. Final Smash: Superstar Rush
    • Mario rushes forward to attack a single opponent. If it connects, Mario pummels them constantly before leaping into the air and delivering a powerful kick that K.O.’s the opponent if their damage exceeds 100%. This is based off the climax of the 2023 movie where Mario and Luigi use the Super Star against Bowser.
Basically, the idea here is to keep true to Mario’s beginner-friendly playable alongside working in some of his canon abilities.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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TheFirstPoppyBro

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I'm still huffing the heavy copium that maybe, just maybe, there'll be a new Rhythm Heaven announced, and the Switch will work its magic as it has for so many others and give it a real big hit.
 
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