Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm still huffing the heavy copium that maybe, just maybe, there'll be a new Rhythm Heaven announced, and the Switch will work its magic as it has for so many others and give it a real big hit.

Honestly you bring up something I want to talk about.

What do you guys think of Rhythm Heaven and it's current status? Is the franchise in a healthy place? Why haven't we seen a game in a while?

Why do you think it was cut from Smash 4?

 

[BritishGuy54]

Honestly you bring up something I want to talk about.

What do you guys think of Rhythm Heaven and it's current status? Is the franchise in a healthy place? Why haven't we seen a game in a while?

Why do you think it was cut from Smash 4?

I have a feeling Chorus Kids were cut for the same reason as Ice Climbers. Technical limitations on the 3DS.

I’d go a step further and propose Isaac was also cut from Smash 4 for the same reason, and why even his AT isn’t present.

Maybe Nintendo thinks there isn’t a market for it. Or they just don’t have development resources and teams for it.

Rhythm Heaven is currently dormant, it seems. Whether it will return is still unknown.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Honestly you bring up something I want to talk about.

What do you guys think of Rhythm Heaven and it's current status? Is the franchise in a healthy place? Why haven't we seen a game in a while?

Why do you think it was cut from Smash 4?

Well, aside from the obvious answer of no, I don't think 9 years since Megamix with no games is the franchise being in a healthy place ( ), I genuinely kinda wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason for the long absence is possibly due to Tsunku getting his vocal cords removed because of his laryngeal cancer. Considering he's always done vocal tracks for the series and now no longer can, they may feel that part of the identity is lost.

Not to mention I don't think Rhythm Heaven sells particularly well (Megamix didn't even get a physical release in the US, so I don't know how much faith there even was in the series 9 years ago).

As for why it was cut, I do agree that it was probably technical limitations if it was Chorus Kids. Ice Climbers couldn't work with two characters, let alone three at a time, and they were likely low priority to work on in Ultimate, if they were ever considered to be given another shot in the first place, considering the low number of newcomers the base roster had.

 

[fogbadge]

https://x.com/Stealth40k/status/1799876778141639147


Hmm...

Peak, you say?

peak? must be the new ice climber

 

[Perkilator]

With Sonic x Shadow Generations. a Completely Unique Shadow has shot up my list of most wanted Smash Characters.

Actually, thinking about this has caused me to update an old Shadow moveset of mine and turn him into a fully unique fighter.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly you bring up something I want to talk about.

What do you guys think of Rhythm Heaven and it's current status? Is the franchise in a healthy place? Why haven't we seen a game in a while?

Why do you think it was cut from Smash 4?

It's probably dead. We might see another game if the series has someone in its corner, but we probably won't.

Having three of the little guys sounds like a good reason why they were cut, but assuming the other two kids weren't actual fighters (which would make sense since they've only got one slot) I'd say that it had more to do with time than anything else. Heck, even Bowser Jr. exists only because someone who really liked him chugged a can of Red Bull and slammed him out super fast.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

(which would make sense since they've only got one slot)

There was no "slot".

What it was was Rhythm Heaven being listed among other Fighter based series in the data just like Ice Climber.
Neither the Kids (or anyone else from RH) nor the Climbers themselves had character data to be found.


We can merely deduce it was the Chorus Kids due to the Gematsu Leak and what Sakurai said about the 3DS with characters like the Climbers applying to the concept of the Kids as well.

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah it's gonna be hard to fix

Honestly you bring up something I want to talk about.

What do you guys think of Rhythm Heaven and it's current status? Is the franchise in a healthy place? Why haven't we seen a game in a while?

Why do you think it was cut from Smash 4?

Difficult to say it's in a "healthy place" but I wouldn't label it definitely dead. I've said before that it's an easy enough game to put out that it could hypothetically just pop out at nearly any time.

As for Smash 4, it was probably some mix of technical issues with their concept, time, and unfortunately likely also being lower priority to begin with.

It doesn't get mentioned but being low priority even aside from technical issues was already said to be a factor for ICs (see here: https://sourcegaming.info/2015/07/09/i-answer-some-questions-sakurai-famitsu-column-vol-461-464/), albeit probably a secondary one in my interpretation since Sakurai talks about the technical issues first and more in-depth (not to mention they were apparently working on Wii U). I think the point is if it was like Mario having technical issues, there would be a much greater impetus to resolve them, but an already low-priority character causing issues is probably more dire a situation for that character.

 

[Oracle Link]

Btw Controverisal opinion probably!
But I would even prefer Paula over Ninten as an echo! Atleast Paula looks diffrent and it would check out for her to get her moves!
I still prefer Gyiyg as an mewtwo echo or porky as a unique character!

 

[Louie G.]

What do you guys think of Rhythm Heaven and it's current status? Is the franchise in a healthy place? Why haven't we seen a game in a while?

Why do you think it was cut from Smash 4?

Healthy place? Well, objectively no since we're coming up on a decade of nothing, but the audience for it is as strong as ever. I constantly see Rhythm Heaven posts go viral on Twitter, Heaven Studio just came out a couple months back to make fan content all the easier to produce, the series continues to get shout-outs in WarioWare with a very explicit one as recently as Move It. I'm going to assume we haven't seen a game for a bit mainly because of higher priority demands. The team clearly wants to do more with the series, Tsunku has expressed interest in seeing it continued, but Warioware typically comes first and fulfills a similar niche. Why we got two Warioware games before a single Rhythm Heaven game on Switch I'm not 100% sure, but WW traditionally takes full advantage of a system's hardware quirks and the Switch has plenty to explore. They are cheap, fun showcases of a console's capabilities. Rhythm Heaven likely isn't attributed such a generalized role.

Tsunku's health complications may have tentatively put the series in a state of limbo as well, but perhaps even moreso is the lack of confidence in Megamix's marketing and release that likely led to its sales being less than spectacular. Apparently it barely scratched a million, which is not bad, but an eShop exclusive shadow-drop is not something typically reserved for a series Nintendo views as especially valuable. I think a new game could show up at any point since they are cheap to make and since I don't anticipate the game would see a very long rollout, but to the same token my expectations are tempered.

As others have said, assuming the character planned in Smash 4 was Chorus Kids, it was probably a number of complications from hardware limitations to difficult execution that did them in as a presumed low priority newcomer to begin with. Who knows how far they got into development, seemingly enough to have a Smash Run enemy, but introducing mechanics such as rhythmic inputs and one way or another building a trio character in a game already struggling to bring back its duo likely made them an easy sacrifice when down to the wire. We know Bowser Jr just barely held on, and he seems way less intensive or complex. And if I remember correctly, if the Koopalings didn't work out he'd have been a goner.

And while Rhythm Heaven was nowhere near a complete unknown, compared to many of the other characters added this game (Villager, Wii Fit, Little Mac, Duck Hunt...) its notoriety was more questionable. The inclusion of Shulk makes this reasoning more dubious, but many of Smash 4's additions catered to a wide audience and many already had wild gimmicks. Villager, Wii Fit and Duck Hunt already served as surprising, quirky non-fighters that you wouldn't expect and were more easily understood by an onlooker. Perhaps on top of its relative obscurity, Rhythm Heaven felt like it would be overdoing Smash 4's silly unexpected flair in comparison to more "cool" and traditional fighters. I have no basis for this, but it's something I could see being the case. Roster balance is important and Smash 4 was already very experimental as is. It was probably that first point that did the Chorus Kids in, but these elements are probably what made them lower priority in the first place.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Since Doom The Dark Ages has been revealed, do you think the Doomslayer would have the buzzshield in Smash Bros as part of his arsenal?

 

[Gengar84]

Btw Controverisal opinion probably!
But I would even prefer Paula over Ninten as an echo! Atleast Paula looks diffrent and it would check out for her to get her moves!
I still prefer Gyiyg as an mewtwo echo or porky as a unique character!

I don’t know a ton about Mother/Earthbound but I’m not sure Paula’s proportions really work for an echo. She looks a lot taller and thinner than Ness. Kind of like Peach to Mario. Giygas does have a cool design so he could be fun. Not sure whether his abilities are similar to Mewtwo where he would make sense as an echo but they definitely look similar at least. Porky’s spider mech he used in Brawl could be cool too.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Since Doom The Dark Ages has been revealed, do you think the Doomslayer would have the buzzshield in Smash Bros as part of his arsenal?

Poor Rygar...

 

[Gengar84]

Does anyone here remember Hexen on the N64? DOOM: The Dark Ages reminded me of it. I think Hexen was also made by Id Software. My brother and I rented that game a few times back in the day and had a lot of fun with it. The only real issue is that it kind of gave me motion sickness a bit like some other early N64 FPS games like Duke Nukem 64.

 

[TheQuester]

The next direct is going to be peak?
Ice Climbers 2....it's time.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

The next direct is going to be peak?
Ice Climbers 2....it's time.

unfortunately from what i'm hearing, the "peak" post was taken out of context and is not indicating anything in the next direct

 

[DarthEnderX]

Does anyone here remember Hexen on the N64?

No. But I played it's predecessor, Heretic, on PC.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Since Doom The Dark Ages has been revealed, do you think the Doomslayer would have the buzzshield in Smash Bros as part of his arsenal?

If he ever did get in, and assuming this year is the deadline for newcomers, maybe.

But I doubt his chances of getting in at all.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Since Doom The Dark Ages has been revealed, do you think the Doomslayer would have the buzzshield in Smash Bros as part of his arsenal?

I hope so, that thing is already one of his coolest weapons, and Doom dude only has ultra cool weapons.

 

[Wonder Smash]

If he ever did get in, and assuming this year is the deadline for newcomers, maybe.

But I doubt his chances of getting in at all.

Why?

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Predicting Doomslayer's special moves, gimmick, and Final Smash
Neutral B: Fire his weapon of choice.
Side B: Throws his buzzshield like a boomerang. While it's out and doesn't return, he'll use the arm blade and won't use the move until the shield reappears in his arm.
Up B: Meat Hook as a tether recovery that works on stages and fighters.
Down B: (Tap) fires a grenade. (Hold) fires a flame belch
Gimmick: If you hold down both the shield button and B, you'll up 4 4 different weapons to bring out. Pistol, Plasma Rifle, Super Shotgun, and Rocket Launcher. With the exception of the pistol that has unlimited ammo, each weapon has their own ammo and you get more by beating up your opponents.
Final Smash: The BFG 9000

 

[TheQuester]

If he ever did get in, and assuming this year is the deadline for newcomers, maybe.

But I doubt his chances of getting in at all.

When do you guys think they decided the Smash 6 newcomers aproximately (if they did at all).

Honestly, Dark Ages Doomguy would be perfect if the next Smash is more gritty like Brawl, tbh.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

When do you guys think they decided the Smash 6 newcomers aproximately (if they did at all).

It depends on when it comes out, but I feel like the planning phase either started last year or started this year; they may be in the middle of it right now.

Kinda leaning towards late last year start, maybe currently on it, since that Namco Studio S was established last year and looking for hires. Smash usually comes out pretty early in a system's life, so given it usually takes 2 years to make, planning phase happening right now feels right to me.

 

[Arcanir]

When do you guys think they decided the Smash 6 newcomers aproximately (if they did at all).

Honestly, Dark Ages Doomguy would be perfect if the next Smash is more gritty like Brawl, tbh.

Best guess would currently be late last year.

Assuming we're right and the game started development with the creation of the joint Namco studios and Sakurai parting from his YouTube series, that means they probably drafted a Project Plan (and thus, the roster) sometime around then as that's what happened with the previous games. The only exceptions would be cases like Pokemon as traditionally they reserve a slot before picking the actual character.

 

[BritishGuy54]

When do you guys think they decided the Smash 6 newcomers aproximately (if they did at all).

I’d say if Smash 6 releases at the end of 2026, then November 2024 should be the deadline.

This could mean a Pokémon from S/V might not happen. We could see a Gen 10 Pokémon instead if that game releases in late 2025.

Fire Emblem probably gets a character from Engage. It could be Alear, but it could also be a past face from the emblems in that game. Lyn is a name I hear being thrown about and for a series as notorious as Fire Emblem for the Smash community, that’s impressive.

Xenoblade 3 gets a character. Noah and/or Mio will likely get in. Maybe we only get one of them, and we get compensated with an echo fighter/clone character. My bets are on Alvis or N in that regard. Or they go for Adult Rex as a fan-demanded pick.

Those that have managed to maintain a timeless or consistent appeal are likely at any time. Characters like Paper Mario, Bandana Dee, and another Animal Crossing/Splatoon character are names I’d expect.

I’d also say we could get one or two retro newcomers. But the definition of retro has changed, as people now feel nostalgic over the GBA, GameCube, and even the DS and Wii. Isaac could be pulled more as a retro pick rather than one based on fan-demand.

I’m not entirely sure on third-parties. It depends on who’s coming back. Sega, Capcom, and Bandai Namco all make sense to bring back, and I wouldn’t be surprised if SNK joined them in returning for the base game.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Does anyone here remember Hexen on the N64?

No, but I remember Hexen on the PC

In all seriousness I've heard some people wonder if this was supposed to be a Hexen or Quake (specifically the story of Quake 1) reboot, because the game's castle assets would probably fit those games better.

 

[Perkilator]

When do you guys think they decided the Smash 6 newcomers aproximately (if they did at all).

Probably somewhere between 2022-2023 for at least a few newcomers.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It's obvious they gave Joanna Dark a wingsuit so she'd have a Smash recovery.

 

[Gengar84]

It's obvious they gave Joanna Dark a wingsuit so she'd have a Smash recovery.

She’s my FPS character of choice. Doomslayer would be awesome too but I have more personal experience playing Perfect Dark with my friends. I owned the original DOOM on the PC and rented DOOM 64 so I do have some experience with the franchise. If I only get one more RARE character, I’d go with the Battletoads or Fulgore over Joanna but she’d be the next one on my list.

 

[Ivander]

So...........the 18th, anybody?

 

[SPEN18]

Surely FE4 remake has to happen this Direct, right? Right?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It is darkly funny that this Direct has now become the "surely must be revealed" point for so many franchises. Last stand for a Switch 1 release of Metroid Prime 4, final realistic reveal for an original DK game on the system, long awaited confirmation of WW/TP HD ports, the hypothetical ideal time for a FE4 remake showcase, etc. Even some of the poor Hollow Knight fans have pinned their hopes on this presentation being the one to finally show something of Silksong.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Even some of the poor Hollow Knight fans have pinned their hopes on this presentation being the one to finally show something of Silksong.

I mean to be fair, even though Xbox usually tweets about them, they did recently get that free trial period for the original Hollow Knight through NSO that runs for a couple more days I think, so I can see why they might think it has a chance to be here to a certain extent.

That said, I definitely don't expect to see it there, sorry Hollow Knight fans lol

 

[TheQuester]

I’d also say we could get one or two retro newcomers. But the definition of retro has changed, as people now feel nostalgic over the GBA, GameCube, and even the DS and Wii. Isaac could be pulled more as a retro pick rather than one based on fan-demand.

People forget Golden Sun is retro now (or very close to retro status, anyway).
Isaac could def be picked as a retro rep now, unless they want to pick a more obscure one like Sin & Punishment or Tomato Adventure.

 

[Master_Scorpion]

When do you guys think they decided the Smash 6 newcomers aproximately (if they did at all).

Honestly, Dark Ages Doomguy would be perfect if the next Smash is more gritty like Brawl, tbh.

I’d guess it’s probably gonna go up to everything included in this next Nintendo direct as the cutoff for newcomers.

Doomguy did look amazing in that Dark Ages trailer

 

[Borskaboska]

People forget Golden Sun is retro now (or very close to retro status, anyway).
Isaac could def be picked as a retro rep now, unless they want to pick a more obscure one like Sin & Punishment or Tomato Adventure.

I've thought if they were to do more retro characters, the Ice Hockey players from NES ice hockey would make for an interesting Ice Climbers echo. Another idea i had was an 'NES Remix' character, who'd be like a game and watch but for nes games that aren't big enough to get their own characters, and would be constantly swapping between different 8-bit sprites.

If I had to pick a GBA era retro character- Either Isaac from Golden Sun, Andy from Advanced Wars (im not sure if the remake helps his odds any, i didn't hear many people talk about it). I'd support Isaac as long as they get really creative with their spells, and I've always liked the idea of andy commanding troops from afar to attack his enemies like a Jack-O guilty gear.

For DS retro picks, recently I've been thinking Serperior would be a good lesser-thought of pokemon (If you could say any pokemon counts as retro...) But i would actually commit any number of horrible things in order to get Cooking Mama into the game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I’d also say we could get one or two retro newcomers. But the definition of retro has changed, as people now feel nostalgic over the GBA, GameCube, and even the DS and Wii. Isaac could be pulled more as a retro pick rather than one based on fan-demand.

There is one more (Nintendo owned) NES character that I think has a pretty good shot at being a/the retro pick this time:

Spoiler

Mach Rider Echo Fighter optional.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't need any more retro Fighters from Nintendo. I just need Spirits for Pro Wrestling and StarTropics.

Because reasons...

 

[SPEN18]

This is I think one of Isaac's strengths in terms of chances; he could make a lot of sense for a slot dedicated to a fan-demand character, an older character, or simply to an unrepped franchise, and has the popularity and moveset hook to be among the most appealing for any of those. There's multiple ways he could conceivably slot in.

 

[smashkirby]

Hey, I've been meaning to ask you all something for a while now.

What do we all think the next Smash Bros. game's intro is going to be like? Both animation-wise AND music-wise?

Personally, I'd like something like Smash 64 and Melee, animation-wise. Where the intro uses pre-rendered cutscenes (that are exclusive to said intro) that plays up Smash's nature of being a huge crossover between the Nintendo multiverse/gaming multiverse.

Music-wise, however? I think it's about time Smash Bros. got someone like Hironobu Kageyama (Dragon Ball Z) or Hiroshi Kitadani (One Piece) to really bring the hype for a new Smash Bros. opening.

I'll say this much... PLEASE, do NOT give future Smash Bros. game intros something like Lifelight. EVER AGAIN.

No shade to Erina Koga and Abby Trott. They're beautiful singers, but Lifelight (as the INTRO to a Smash Bros. game) kind of kills the hype for me a bit, ngl.