Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Sucumbio]

Maybe this is a possibility for a Konami rep!

Konami is slowly getting back into game development.

There's still hope Tankman from Newgrounds don't give up.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah, Smash should have modding!
I can't wait to see Garfield mod in Smash.

Your wish is my command!

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

(I didn’t make this one).

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Maybe this is a possibility for a Konami rep!

Konami is slowly getting back into game development.

There's still hope Tankman from Newgrounds don't give up.

Huh, I didn't expected that.
But anyways, Celebration of Gaming is still continuing, so Konami could let someone add their character.

Your wish is my command!

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

(I didn’t make this one).

Okay.

 

[Stratos]

Waluigi came to the Super Smash Bros. series. as an Assist Trophy and this is probably due to the fact that it has not acquired its own series of video games.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Waluigi came to the Super Smash Bros. series. as an Assist Trophy and this is probably due to the fact that it has not acquired its own series of video games.

Piranha Plant doesn't have his own series and it is a fighter.
Weird, isn't it?

 

[Stratos]

Piranha Plant doesn't have his own series and it is a fighter.
Weird, isn't it?

You're right, it's weird.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

You're right, it's weird.

Then Smash should not implement Piranha Plant at first point.

 

[Stratos]

Then Smash should not implement Piranha Plant at first point.

Let's hope that if a new Super Smash Bros. game is released, then Waluigi will be there as a newcomer.

 

[Dinoman96]

Plant, in addition to being Sakurai's obligatory suprise fighter (like before it) at least has appeared in every Mario platformer at this point and they managed to make a really unique and interesting moveset out of it, utilizing all the various PP subspecies.

Waluigi, due to his spinoff only nature, would most likely just use random Mario spinoff moves. Not nearly as interesting.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Plant, in addition to being Sakurai's obligatory suprise fighter (like before it) at least has appeared in every Mario platformer at this point and they managed to make a really unique and interesting moveset out of it, utilizing all the various PP subspecies.

Waluigi, due to his spinoff only nature, would most likely just use random Mario spinoff moves. Not nearly as interesting.

Why can't they just add Urban Champion as Suprise pick?
Urban champion has moveset potential.

Or even the could add Virtual Boy.

 

[Perkilator]

Plant, in addition to being Sakurai's obligatory suprise fighter (like before it) at least has appeared in every Mario platformer at this point and they managed to make a really unique and interesting moveset out of it, utilizing all the various PP subspecies.

Waluigi, due to his spinoff only nature, would most likely just use random Mario spinoff moves. Not nearly as interesting.

Is my attempt interesting?

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I wonder how likely it is that more Veterans will be given an overhaul next time. Seeing as Link and Ganondorf got mild adjustments and characters like Samus and Sonic get frequent requests for an update.

 

[Stratos]

Plant, in addition to being Sakurai's obligatory suprise fighter (like before it) at least has appeared in every Mario platformer at this point and they managed to make a really unique and interesting moveset out of it, utilizing all the various PP subspecies.

Waluigi, due to his spinoff only nature, would most likely just use random Mario spinoff moves. Not nearly as interesting.

You're right. That's why he has to get his own video games series in order to have his own moves, even though that seems impossible.

 

[Sucumbio]

I wonder how likely it is that more Veterans will be given an overhaul next time. Seeing as Link and Ganondorf got mild adjustments and characters like Samus and Sonic get frequent requests for an update.

I hope so. If Everyone is Here was the mantra of Ultimate, Smash 6 should be Everyone has learned new moves (okay doesn't quite roll off the tongue).

Re waluigi

If we're talking moveset potential I'd expect them to pull from his AT moves and build on that. The tennis racket is prolly a safe place to start.

Speaking of which

I haven't played Smash for WiiU in so long what exactly was Dark Samus' AT attacks in that game? Since she became playable but only insofar as being a clone basically of Samus, were there any AT moves that were viable character moves?

And then there's Little Mac. His AT had the KO punch and his character got it...

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Imagine unironically using “not enough moveset potential” as a way to gatekeep characters…

 

[osby]

I agree that most Waluigi fan movesets are either boring as sin or just make **** up for memes but I think Sakurai has been pretty good at giving Mario characters interesting and distinct movesets so far.

As long as he can find a unique concept for Waluigi, he can easily stand out at least among other newcomers.

 

[Trevenant]

I wonder how likely it is that more Veterans will be given an overhaul next time. Seeing as Link and Ganondorf got mild adjustments and characters like Samus and Sonic get frequent requests for an update.

If Sakurai returns, no chance... If some other dev replaces him, then possibly... Until then we're gonna get like Ultimate link level tweaks at most... Sakurai just seems to be really against changing characters unless it's minor tweaks to better balance the game... Specials are the biggest things they could change, but historically they've usually kept them the same in concept... Occasionally you get stuff like Ganondorf and the sword where they fundamentally change the attack instead of minor normal move or just animation tweaks, but that's not too common either...

Pit from Brawl to 4 is an example... His side b was not a moving rapid jab, but was streamlined to be like raptor boost whilst keeping the reflector... Up b was also streamlined quite literally... Down b was made to cover both sides but was made to work like a shield in that it couldn't be held out indefinitely... Now that I think about it, a lot of Pit's changes were probably at least partially due to smash 4's faster speed... Still this shows that they try to keep things pretty similar to avoid alienation... How that reasoning sticks varies by person, but it's probably what Sakurai's gonna stick with if he returns...

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Plant, in addition to being Sakurai's obligatory suprise fighter (like before it) at least has appeared in every Mario platformer at this point and they managed to make a really unique and interesting moveset out of it, utilizing all the various PP subspecies.

Waluigi, due to his spinoff only nature, would most likely just use random Mario spinoff moves. Not nearly as interesting.

There’s a difference between generic spin-off moves like “Neutral B: Tennis Racket” and moves Waluigi himself uses specifically, which due to Waluigi‘s lack of main games just happens to be from a spin-off (such as the Air Swimming that Waluigi does). Like, “sports fighter” has never been and will never be a “niche” that Waluigi fills, but you can definitely create a Waluigi set around his specific abilities and quirks, such as his extravagant mobility, his cheating disposition and lankier-than-life frame.

To be fair, I definitely agree that most Waluigi movesets aren’t great, so I get any apprehensions regarding his potential if his potential gets advertised as a full-scale Peach Forward Smash.

 

[Stratos]

May all the veterans come to the next Super Smash Bros. along with some newcomers, though that seems impossible to me. I am talking, of course, about the fact that all veterans will come, if newcomers are to come as well. The first 12 will definitely come, although I want everyone to come.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Then Smash should not implement Piranha Plant at first point.

Correct.

You're right. That's why he has to get his own video games series in order to have his own moves, even though that seems impossible.

Bring on Waluigi's Wrecking Crew!

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Correct.

Bring on Waluigi's Wrecking Crew!

Exactly, I could better want to see Urban Champion than PP.

 

[JustPlainDan]

So, and this might be just because my most wanted character is from one, but in the next Smash game, do you guys think it’s possible that we could get more than one character from an M-rated franchise?

 

[AlRex]

I’m half-worrying that they want to do M-rated game characters less given how they have to say things like “Super Smash Bros. X Travis”

 

[osby]

So, and this might be just because my most wanted character is from one, but in the next Smash game, do you guys think it’s possible that we could get more than one character from an M-rated franchise?

I don't see why not, we got both Simon and Joker in this game.

 

[Dinoman96]

Imagine unironically using “not enough moveset potential” as a way to gatekeep characters…

I think a line should still be drawn somewhere though. Sakurai himself has stated that in order to incorporate a character into Smash, the character in question needs to "dance in his head".

That is probably why characters like Pauline or Kawashima are relegated to background character/assist trophy duties, they don't really have a workable moveset in Sakurai's eyes. Or why Robin got in before Chrom back in Smash 4.

Considering that Waluigi has been stuck as an AT every game since Brawl, he may very well be not dancing in Sakurai's mind.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I think a line should still be drawn somewhere though. Sakurai himself has stated that in order to incorporate a character into Smash, the character in question needs to "dance in his head".

That is probably why characters like Pauline or Kawashima are relegated to background character/assist trophy duties, they don't really have a workable moveset in Sakurai's eyes. Or why Robin got in before Chrom back in Smash 4.

Considering that Waluigi has been stuck as an AT every game since Brawl, Waluigi may very well be not dancing in Sakurai's mind.

Yeah, there are obviously characters who theoretically can’t be translated into Smash but I think would issue in the community is that there should be a line drawn and crossing pass that line should be met with “lawl you think Goomba can be in Smash”. I was being a bit contrarian with my comment but I always get a knee jerk reaction to “x character can’t be in Smash cause they lack a Moveset.” I tend to roll my eyes with someone says a moveset isn’t interesting enough for Smash while a good amount of the roster still uses moves from three Smash’s ago and only get updated visually.

Waluigi does have a lot of pull from and I’m not even a huge supporter. Throwing a Dice from Mario Party where the damage reflected on the side of the die will do the amount of damage. Pulling out an Item Box and bringing out an item from the Mario Kart series. Can even set down the Item Box to use for a later time. Hitting a tennis ball which can ricochet from the ground and hit elsewhere making for an entirely unpredictable projectile. Utilizing various sports equipment for particular purposes. A Final Smash that draws parallels to Luigi’s Negative Zone. Zanny and unorthodox movements. I feel Waluigi not being included is partially due to an inside joke in the development team, input from Miyamoto who wants to see mainline Mario characters rather than spin-off, and that Ultimate’s base roster was focused on fulfilling certain criteria (include 2 popular characters, expanding a new franchise, adding a new Pokémon, including a 3rd party, and adding a new and popular first party, etc). I don’t think Waluigi filled any of the criteria to meet these standards to warrant inclusion while Plant was ultimately decided on as he’s not as popular as Waluigi and serves a role as an off the wall addition. I can’t see in any way where Waluigi would be added as a promotional fighter or even DLC. Waluigi would be a launch character or bust.

I do agree that certain characters can’t legitely get a workable moveset and, even if they could, it runs the risk of being over complicated for the sake of uniqueness or feeling too forced. I don’t think Waluigi inclusion is hindered by a lack of moveset but, rather, external forces and influence.

 

[JustPlainDan]

I don't see why not, we got both Simon and Joker in this game.

NGL, I think because Castlevania and Persona games weren’t originally M-rated titles, they slipped my mind to a degree even though Joker’s game is M.

 

[Guynamednelson]

NGL, I think because Castlevania and Persona games weren’t originally M-rated titles, they slipped my mind to a degree even though Joker’s game is M.

The restrictions came some time after Joker was added to Smash IIRC. Joker dodged a bullet, much like he shoots them for his neutral special.

 

[JustPlainDan]

The restrictions came some time after Joker was added to Smash IIRC. Joker dodged a bullet, much like he shoots them for his neutral special.

First I’ve heard of this actually; was it Nintendo or the ratings boards that made them?

 

[Diddy Kong]

111 pages already . I'm curious how many pages this thread is gonna get before we get actual news of a new Smash.

Anyway, there was talk about retro characters, and my personal vote is Cranky Kong, being a retro character by representing the old DK Arcade games in his move set. Technically, he's one of the oldest characters of Nintendo, thus retro.

 

[Guynamednelson]

First I’ve heard of this actually; was it Nintendo or the ratings boards that made them?

ESRB. PEGI didn't have the same restrictions initially, but changed their mind in time for Kazuya, whose franchise gets rated 16+ in Europe.

 

[Dinoman96]

Yeah, there are obviously characters who theoretically can’t be translated into Smash but I think would issue in the community is that there should be a line drawn and crossing pass that line should be met with “lawl you think Goomba can be in Smash”. I was being a bit contrarian with my comment but I always get a knee jerk reaction to “x character can’t be in Smash cause they lack a Moveset.” I tend to roll my eyes with someone says a moveset isn’t interesting enough for Smash while a good amount of the roster still uses moves from three Smash’s ago and only get updated visually.

Waluigi does have a lot of pull from and I’m not even a huge supporter. Throwing a Dice from Mario Party where the damage reflected on the side of the die will do the amount of damage. Pulling out an Item Box and bringing out an item from the Mario Kart series. Can even set down the Item Box to use for a later time. Hitting a tennis ball which can ricochet from the ground and hit elsewhere making for an entirely unpredictable projectile. Utilizing various sports equipment for particular purposes. A Final Smash that draws parallels to Luigi’s Negative Zone. Zanny and unorthodox movements. I feel Waluigi not being included is partially due to an inside joke in the development team, input from Miyamoto who wants to see mainline Mario characters rather than spin-off, and that Ultimate’s base roster was focused on fulfilling certain criteria (include 2 popular characters, expanding a new franchise, adding a new Pokémon, including a 3rd party, and adding a new and popular first party, etc). I don’t think Waluigi filled any of the criteria to meet these standards to warrant inclusion while Plant was ultimately decided on as he’s not as popular as Waluigi and serves a role as an off the wall addition. I can’t see in any way where Waluigi would be added as a promotional fighter or even DLC. Waluigi would be a launch character or bust.

I do agree that certain characters can’t legitely get a workable moveset and, even if they could, it runs the risk of being over complicated for the sake of uniqueness or feeling too forced. I don’t think Waluigi inclusion is hindered by a lack of moveset but, rather, external forces and influence.

I don't think Miyamoto has anything to do with the character selection process for Smash. Keep in mind that the reason K. Rool was dropped from DKCR was because the Moto and Kanabe came to the conclusion that K. Rool and the Kremlings were expendable and that they should just do something new instead. And yet we still got K. Rool in Ultimate.

I guess my problem with your ideas is that well, none of those abilities are even exclusive to Waluigi, which really does just emphasizes his overall identity as just being a throwaway spinoff roster filler character. He's like Daisy except for the fact that he can't be made a quick clone. To make thinks fair I also think this applies to Toad and that's probably why he's not playable either.

 

[AlRex]

As far as retro-themed characters, I’d not mind Cranky, Mach Rider/ExciteBiker (whatever variation of a motorcycle moveset seems cool), Sukapon, the Amazon…if they can get them in, Nester or Captain N, sure. Tetris, if that counts.

For later odd characters, Flipnote Frog seems kind of cool.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Outside of Cranky, I'd like to see Takamaru, Lip (if she counts), Balloon Fighter and either Mach Rider or Exite Biker as retro newcomers.

Anyway, anyone thinking we'll see more Echo Fighters upcoming game? I thought the ones we got in Ultimate where good, but there was lots of hype, demand and speculation for more.

Even if they manage to get all, or most characters back, that's a huge roster to recreate. Would take up a ton of resources, not to mention time. I could see a bigger focus on Echo Fighters and semi clones as newcomers for this reason.

And there are quite some popular characters that could be added as Echoes or semi clones, most from franchises that already have a few characters in.

For example, for the Donkey Kong franchise, Dixie Kong could be a semi clone of Diddy, and Funky Kong a semi clone or even Echo of DK.

In the Zelda franchise, Impa could be made as a semi clone of Sheik if they wanted, Toon Zelda as a Zelda "Echo" as Isabelle is to Villager. In general different alts of different versions of Link, Zelda and Ganondorf, as Ocarina of Time for Link and Zelda, and Twilight Princess for all 3. Ocarina of Time Link could be a Echo to Link with slight differences in their Specials, and the Hero of Time having regular bombs and a Hookshot grab.

Tom Nook would be good for Animal Crossing, I can't picture him not being based around a similar sort of playstyle than Villager and Isabelle frankly.

Knuckles, Shadow and Tails could reasonably be semi clones of Sonic. Some even stated Shadow could be a Echo, even if it's more unique as say, Ken.

Anyway, these all seem as good additions that would please a lot of people, and are lower effort newcomers than fully unique characters.

 

[Garteam]

I think the key to making a Waluigi moveset that feels true to the character and genuinely interesting is to focus on the bizarre and comedic side of Waluigi by giving him bizarre and comedic tools. Stuff like Smash Flash 2 making up-air spike when sweet-spotted feels simultaneously unique and VERY Waluigi.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Enjoy a 100 minute plus video about a hypothetical Sega Smash Bros Series:

 

[chocolatejr9]

Enjoy a 100 minute plus video about a hypothetical Sega Smash Bros Series:

The fact it has Billy Hatcher automatically makes it perfect.

I miss Billy Hatcher...

 

[Speed Weed]

The fact it has Billy Hatcher automatically makes it perfect.

Quite the opposite, actually

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Enjoy a 100 minute plus video about a hypothetical Sega Smash Bros Series:

I like that video, but only bad quality in this Video that when he said about Assists, I heard that Vectorman was Assist Character and they broke my feelings.

Also, why Ecco in roster? Vectorman has more moveset potential than this "Dolphin".

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Maybe this is a possibility for a Konami rep!

Konami is slowly getting back into game development.

There's still hope Tankman from Newgrounds don't give up.

I’ve been trying to Champion Getsu Fuma Den: Undying Moon since it was announced. The game is phenomenal in early access. A MetroidVania-roguelite with a beautiful artstyle that just hails back to some of the best Castlevania games. It’s supposed to come out on Switch this year and MAN I’m excited for it.

Little bummed about the NFT situation on Konami’s side but there are companies on both sides of the fence so I’m not surprised.