Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

ba dum tsh

Also, I just realized your profile pic is Rule 63 Izuku Midoriya.

Yes and I really like it.
You know, I started to use PFPs that don't fit into my name.

 

[CannonStreak]

Keep an eye on this a new character trailer for smash Crusade will show up today the code name for it is hope so take your guesses

Yep, it is a Digimon. Forgot his name, though.

EDIT: It's Patamon.

 

[Deleted member]

Edit: ignore this.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

I'll wait until Nintendo announces a new console or a big upgrade to the Switch

 

[Digital Hazard]

I like all the picks except
I would rather have Captain Syrup, Stork, Waluigi, Fawful, King Boo, Vivian and Pauline over them

How can someone say with a straight face that the stork is a better pick than Rosalina?

 

[Geno Boost]

How can someone say with a straight face that the stork is a better pick than Rosalina?

i do think Stork and Rosalina are kinda equal as Rosalina is Mario's helper in Mario Galaxy and Stork is Yoshi's helper like in Yoshi Island DS they both full fill a task the only difference is the amount of appearences however without them Mario and Yoshi wouldnt be able to finish their mission

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

i do think Stork and Rosalina are kinda equal as Rosalina is Mario's helper in Mario Galaxy and Stork is Yoshi's helper like in Yoshi Island DS they both full fill a task the only difference is the amount of appearences however without them Mario and Yoshi wouldnt be able to finish their mission

Without the Stork, Yoshi wouldn't have a mission to begin with because the Stork is terrible at its job.

Rosalina at least has the excuse of implimenting Galaxy mechanics as well as the Lumas. What does the stork have? Whacking people with a bag full of babies?

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Without the Stork, Yoshi wouldn't have a mission to begin with because the Stork is terrible at its job.

Rosalina at least has the excuse of implimenting Galaxy mechanics as well as the Lumas. What does the stork have? Whacking people with a bag full of babies?

Kamek would be Interesting Yoshi Fighter.

Plus, without Rosalina there won't be any Galaxy-themed mechanics.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Kamek would be Interesting Yoshi Fighter

Within Ultimate, he's categorized as a Mario character if Spirits are anything to go by.

So while I agree he'd be a good fighter, he'd be a Mario rep.

Plus, without Rosalina there won't be any Galaxy-themed mechanics.

Actually, yes there would be. All she does is raise the Lumas that help Mario in his journey.

When it comes to direct assitance to Mario, it's only in the endgame of 1 that she actually does something.

But this is enough to warrant the creative liberty of making her the Galaxy representative in her Smash moveset.

 

[Digital Hazard]

i do think Stork and Rosalina are kinda equal as Rosalina is Mario's helper in Mario Galaxy and Stork is Yoshi's helper like in Yoshi Island DS they both full fill a task the only difference is the amount of appearences however without them Mario and Yoshi wouldnt be able to finish their mission

Rosalina is also a mainline Mario character that began to appear in spin offs and became beloved pretty quick. Plus she was chosen for pupeeter mechanics.

I mean yeah, the stork does appear frequently in Yoshi games, but like... How many people care about the stork?

 

[SKX31]

Putting aside the Waluigi talk, honestly, how do you feel about the Mario representation in Smash in general? I mean, on one hand, I do understand that its Nintendo's flagship franchise. But on the other, I honestly felt that the series already got its most essential reps with the addition of Wario in Brawl, and while the addition of two characters in each game since isn't all that much (well, technically 10 in the case of Bowser Jr., Koopalings, Rosalina, AND Luma), I can't say I'm especially fond of the idea of a significant fraction of the Smash roster starting to just resemble the roster of a typical Mario spin-off game (if it doesn't already). I say this, and yet, I honestly found Piranha Plant to be a pleasant surprise, and wouldn't even mind if that opened the door for another, even more iconic Mario mook like Goomba or Koopa Troopa. I guess I've just got conflicting views on it overall.

I'm pretty fine with the Mario franchise's playable characters. They're generally distinct from each other, have character-related reasons to be in the game and have something interesting to stand out. There are some that have felt undertuned ( , for example) - but as someone who freshly recalls Bowser's struggles before Smash 4 / Ultimate Plant's position is not that bad by comparision.

As for newcomers, I do personally prefer Waluigi, although I wouldn't mind most any of them really. This is coming from a guy who honestly didn't mind the idea behind Plant - who like Chain Chomp had 0 playable appearances until recently.

And no, I don't feel that the Mario characters are numerous enough to cause this game to feel like a Mario spinoff - they're just ca. 1/8th of the roster at the most generous. They were 1/5th of the Melee roster (close to 1/4th if you included Yoshi / DK, and 1/3rd of the 64 roster if you include both). Sure, Nintendo are of course going to focus on Mario - it's the flagship franchise, after all, and of course they're going to lean on Mario just as Disney leans on Mickey Mouse for their marketing - but they're not that omnipresent.

My main issue is a lot of the Mario stages pull from very safe design space - 3D Land, Golden Plains and Mushroom Kingdom U tread much the same ground as other stages did (I find it particularily odd that they added both Mushroom Kingdom U and Paper Mario in the game, when both are practically "transforming stages" with a starting area and a Bowser's Castle segment). And typically are not particularily interesting because of that. I get that they're very interested in selling those individual games - but several of those games have aged rather pooly (the NSMB series, specifically 2, is a prime example).

Several of those stages are also walk-offs, which I really detest (I'd go so far as to say that every walk off should have the KoF invisible wall to remedy the main issue those stages have). If anything the stages need more experimentation - why not bring in more areas that aren't reminiscient of 1-1 like New Donk did?

Mario's items and music are generally fine. Music is cookie cutter and could use more experimentation, but the selection is very widespread. The items are very widely varied and fine generally. Some are a bit overtuned, but that's an issue items have generally and most of the items aren't too overpowering in your standard casual setting.

 

[Garteam]

Hot take time: Toad is the most notable Nintendo character and a strong candidate for the most notable video game character to not currently be playable in Smash.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Because it’s a 2nd Yoshi rep which yoshi still doesn’t have any new rep since 64
Also Stork is carrying important task in the series just like Yoshi while Piranha Plant doesn’t so at least he does have a role even though he doesn’t have crazy super power

Poochy is also a choice for a Yoshi character you know. A much more feasible one too.

 

[Geno Boost]

Poochy is also a choice for a Yoshi character you know. A much more feasible one too.

i was thinking of Poochy and Stork being a duo fighters sometimes similar to Duck Hunt i think that would be cool

 

[Digital Hazard]

Hot take time: Toad is the most notable Nintendo character and a strong candidate for the most notable video game character to not currently be playable in Smash.

I agree on this. Would it be the most exciting reveal? Not at all. But it's an inclusion that would make sense? Totally.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hot take time: Toad is the most notable Nintendo character and a strong candidate for the most notable video game character to not currently be playable in Smash.

I'll disagree respectfully. Because in terms of lore and legacy, Cranky Kong is the only character I'd say is more important overall. That's by Cranky being the original DK from the Arcade and all, that's bound to make up for a moveset that reflects this. Dixie also makes a very strong case, but she waned a bit due to not making appearances for a while in her home series...

Toad is a solid pick however. He's probably the most recognizable video game character not in Smash yet. Am sort of fearful for his chances however, he's not leaving the insides of Peach's dress to be used as a human meat shield any time soon. I'm thinking that's the exact reason they choose Piranha Plant as a newcomer instead. I won't be expecting Toad therefore.

 

[Will]

Hot take time: Toad is the most notable Nintendo character and a strong candidate for the most notable video game character to not currently be playable in Smash.

I'd like a Captain Toad character devoted to the gimmick of having a character without a traditional jump but having a game mechanic designed around that. I like the idea of him setting up ladders and platforms lol

 

[Chuderz]

FF7 stage ideas.

I think the Nibel Reactor could be a very interesting stage. It'd be a big stage like Hyrule temple but it'd be completely diagonal in design from bottom left to top right and utilize the indoor/outdoor stage mechanics you see in stages like Luigi's mansion.

The very bottom left would be outside the entrance to the reactor. It'd have a flat bottom and the blastzones would be just the top of the map and the left side of the map. You can smack enemies onto the pillar of the reactor's outside and they'll bounce off it. You go up the steps on the right side of the map and doing so will have you enter the first room. Here's a visual reference for the outside of the reactor at the very bottom-left of this hypothetical map's design: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/f...reactor.png/revision/latest?cb=20110522204520

Once you get past the entrance you'll be in the first room. It's mostly flat with a single blast at the top. Each side will have a door leading to another side of the stage. The left door will lead you back outside the entrance and the one on the right will lead you into the red room where the project Jenova experimental monsters reside. Other than that the left and right side of this portion of the stage will be solid. The top will be the only way to secure a KO in this portion. Here is a visual reference for this portion of the stage: https://jegged.com/img/Games/Final-...gh/FFVII-00331-Kalm-Flashback-Mount-Nibel.png

Going to the right will lead you into the aforementioned red room and here's a visual reference for it here: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/f...est/scale-to-width-down/512?cb=20110524000719

This portion of the map is a steep incline upward from left to right. Again there will be a door at each side leading to the previous/next rooms in their respective areas. There will be a single blast zone at the top portion of this section. Going to the right door will lead to the final portion of the stage that being Jenova's chambers.

Jenova's chambers will be an icy blue contrast from the previous room. It will also feature an incline upward toward the right. The right portion of the stage will be Jenova's incubator and the left portion will be solid with a door at the bottom leading to the previous room. The entire ceiling will again be a blast zone. Visual reference here: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/f...est/scale-to-width-down/320?cb=20080913151148

The BF and FD forms can be dedicated to single rooms. I'd prefer Jenova's room got BF and the first portion of the building after the entrance got the FD. Also if it were possible you could have the solid walls I mentioned function like Terry's stage. Might be a little tricky though because the doors leading into each section would have to be disassociated from the rest of the wall's gimmick.

If one player was at the outside entrance and the other was in Jenova's chambers the camera would pan out accordingly and the entire insides of the building would be transparent. This would probably take some considerably well-designed scaling to get to look right but whatever I'm just imagining that the devs would pull it off. You don't need to have Jenova's chambers be at the top of the reactor anyway.

That's my idea. Another easy would be on the top of the cart thing where Cloud goes on his dates at the Golden Saucer while the firework show is going off in the background. Would look sick on an OLED screen.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Putting aside the Waluigi talk, honestly, how do you feel about the Mario representation in Smash in general? I mean, on one hand, I do understand that its Nintendo's flagship franchise. But on the other, I honestly felt that the series already got its most essential reps with the addition of Wario in Brawl, and while the addition of two characters in each game since isn't all that much (well, technically 10 in the case of Bowser Jr., Koopalings, Rosalina, AND Luma), I can't say I'm especially fond of the idea of a significant fraction of the Smash roster starting to just resemble the roster of a typical Mario spin-off game (if it doesn't already). I say this, and yet, I honestly found Piranha Plant to be a pleasant surprise, and wouldn't even mind if that opened the door for another, even more iconic Mario mook like Goomba or Koopa Troopa. I guess I've just got conflicting views on it overall.

It's called Super Smash Bros. so I don't really see the issue of Super Mario Bros. getting a lot of stuff.

It being a platform fighter also alludes to something Mario is famous for; platformers.

Really, I just feel it's natural the franchise gets so much, even without thinking about how it's Nintendo's flagship IP.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Other platform series don't even get half as much, so Mario being a platformer isn't an argument. It's pretty obvious why Mario gets a lot, it's Mario. Smash has Super and Bros. in it's title in the West, it's the biggest Nintendo franchise. Up to Smash 4, I never felt Mario had a big dominance in the amount of content of Smash even honestly.

 

[chocolatejr9]

What does the stork have? Whacking people with a bag full of babies?

You just sold me on the idea of Stork in Smash.

 

[Aligo]

You just sold me on the idea of Stork in Smash.

The stork is heavily armed with mario kart filler characters.

 

[Geno Boost]

Hot take time: Toad is the most notable Nintendo character and a strong candidate for the most notable video game character to not currently be playable in Smash.

I would say Meowth as well he is always present

 

[Loungemen]

Guys I just want an incredibly smaller roster next time

Ultimate's roster is beyond amazing, but at the same time...it's a huge and clunky roster, and sometimes I'll forget that a certain character is in the roster

 

[Laniv]

Hot take time: Toad is the most notable Nintendo character and a strong candidate for the most notable video game character to not currently be playable in Smash.

Absolutely 100% agree. I'm surprised that not more people are requesting him to be playable.

 

[Idon]

Absolutely 100% agree. I'm surprised that not more people are requesting him to be playable.

Because notability isn't popularity.

Knowledge a character exists doesn't directly correlate to desire to seeing them in a fighting game, especially when alternatives within their own franchise exists.

 

[PeridotGX]

Toad is deserving, but is as exciting as white bread. I get why he's not in yet.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Toad's biggest issue is that he doesn't stand out.

It's not helped that there are multiple of them, and Mario canon can barely decide if there's a single important Toad, or several unimportant Toads.

At least we know Yoshi is an individual.

That said, the easiest fix to this is to just have Captain Toad show up in more stuff. Captain Toad fixes all of those issues.

 

[Garteam]

If we do end up getting Toad or Captain Toad, my only wish is that they have a ground pound as their d-air.

Seriously, we have 3 (4 if you want to count ) takes on Mario's moveset in Smash, yet the ground pound has continued to be left out even after Mario got a new d-air in Brawl and Dr. Mario got a new d-air in Ultimate.

 

[ForsakenM]

Samus and Sonic are two characters I think just need some tweaks and they'd be set.

The only thing Sonic needs is a new side-special like his Blue Tornado or something. Idk. Maybe add like jump option to his normal spindash if you tap the input again mid execution? Just to keep everything. Other than his side-special I think all the other applications of his spindash are warranted and creative. Maybe give him his Project M Forward-Air like people want. That's it.

I was playing the Dread demo and I think Samus could use some tweaks. Up her speed and change her Jab and Neutral-Air to his normal basic shot thing just like Megaman. I'd hate to sacrifice her cool Down-Tilt for a standard sliding one but it'd work well with an overall speed buff for her I guess and Dark Samus would inherit the old Down-Tilt anyway so whatever. I know for her there's a lot more you can do wit her but the same goes for Sonic. I'm just offering my thoughts on the design route of slight changes versus massive overhauls for these respective characters.

Anyway:

Now my two cents on certain reps being talked about. First I think Mario should always have the most playable fighters. I never understand people that complain about Mario having "too many" fighters. It's borderline ridiculous other than the fact that I understand they just don't like the series as much. The Mario series should also have more fighters on its own without the additions of the Wario, Yoshi and Donkey Kong series. The existence of those series being separate only emphasizes the importance and dominance of the Mario series role in Smash. Hell the name of the franchise itself is a play on Super Mario Bros.

Reps I feel are warranted are Captain Toad, King Boo and Geno. Geno is in a weird place though and I think it'd be nice if Square sold him off to Nintendo for an agreeable (cheap) price. I don't really want to dwelve into all of that though so moving on.

Waluigi should be a Wario rep. I know there are some issues with this and I still think it was tone-deaf of Nintendo to not include him in Wario's new Warioware game but that's just that I guess. Still the Wario series is the perfect place for him with Wario being his canon bestie and the emblem for the series literally being a giant W.

Birdo should be the Yoshi rep. It's another kind of complicated pairing but Birdo is Nintendo alumni and usually paired with Yoshi in some way for the spinoffs. Nobody else really fits the bill as well as she does.

These additions to the Mario-adjacent series are safer picks because of how much they're already associated they are with the Mario cast while still having a legitimate standing with the main character representing their respect Mario-adjacent series. Once you start going deeper into the Kongs, Warioware's usual suspects, and Poochy is when things start getting a little too niche. Hell even Mario's own niche choices like Kamek and Fawful should be getting priority over the side-series' niche picks except maybe like Ashley I guess? I don't really know.

Not gatekeeping though I'm just throwing my thoughts out there on what feels "realistic" to speculate on. Carry on.

I appreciate the Geno support of course, but I have to disagree with Waluigi being a Wario character.

As much as I love Geno, Waluigi is the most requested Mario character, flat out. Geno is right behind him of course, and TECHNICALLY Geno keeps outplacing him in polls but that could easily change in the coming times. On top of that, Geno is a Mario character by proxy, whereas Waluigi is a flat-out Mario character, having been introduced in Mario Tennis.

I agree Mario should dominate the roster more than, say, Fire Emblem (which I would be fine with it it was a bit more successful and they reached deep for picks like Lyn, Hector and whatnot just to have more interesting character movesets. GIVE ME A PLAYABLE GENERAL IN SMASH!) but Mario is running out of reps to take from with his main series in terms of big names. Seriously, we are down to Toad, Toadette and one-off appearances. Waluigi branches into the spin-offs more than Daisy does, and Paper Mario seems like an excellent step to take after we honor the first Mario RPG.

While I personally would be down with changes, well...it seems like I'm in the minority, or at least that's how it was if things have changed. I remember not liking FLUDD in Brawl only because I liked Mario Tornado much more as a move but grew to accept that change, but I remember people dropping characters due to the smallest changes, so I'm not sure if the masses of Smashers have reached that level of 'Yeah, it's about time they got a change to their moveset.'

One way to solve this would having 'Legacy Versions' of a character that are selectable from the character select with a button combination or like the Echo Fighter feature to swap between the updated and legacy versions of the character.

Toad's biggest issue is that he doesn't stand out.

It's not helped that there are multiple of them, and Mario canon can barely decide if there's a single important Toad, or several unimportant Toads.

At least we know Yoshi is an individual.

That said, the easiest fix to this is to just have Captain Toad show up in more stuff. Captain Toad fixes all of those issues.

If only he didn't keep leaving his bazooka at home! He'd stand out so much more that way.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Guys I just want an incredibly smaller roster next time

Ultimate's roster is beyond amazing, but at the same time...it's a huge and clunky roster, and sometimes I'll forget that a certain character is in the roster

I mean there is 64, Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4 depending on how small you want the roster.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If we do end up getting Toad or Captain Toad, my only wish is that they have a ground pound as their d-air.

Seriously, we have 3 (4 if you want to count ) takes on Mario's moveset in Smash, yet the ground pound has continued to be left out even after Mario got a new d-air in Brawl and Dr. Mario got a new d-air in Ultimate.

I think its because have the ground pounds in their movesets.

 

[ForsakenM]

Guys I just want an incredibly smaller roster next time

Ultimate's roster is beyond amazing, but at the same time...it's a huge and clunky roster, and sometimes I'll forget that a certain character is in the roster

Why does this give me Sword and Shield vibes? Like, you know, being okay with losing the majority of the Pokemon for a reason that doesn't quite add up.

Like, the roster is in order of appearance and reveals, starting from the N64 days. Once you pass Jigglypuff on the roster, you are in Melee territory. Past Game & Watch is Brawl territory, after Wolf is Smash 4 and then Ultimate starts with Inkling, right after Bayonetta. The only exceptions to this are Echo Fighters, and that's only if you separate them.

I'd much rather get ever so slightly miffed while searching the character screen because my brain forget basic left-to-right chronological order for a moment then to...well, you know, not have the characters playable in the game!?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Why does this give me Sword and Shield vibes? Like, you know, being okay with losing the majority of the Pokemon for a reason that doesn't quite add up.

Like, the roster is in order of appearance and reveals, starting from the N64 days. Once you pass Jigglypuff on the roster, you are in Melee territory. Past Game & Watch is Brawl territory, after Wolf is Smash 4 and then Ultimate starts with Inkling, right after Bayonetta. The only exceptions to this are Echo Fighters, and that's only if you separate them.

Even with that, it's not always easy for everyone to remember all the 89 characters that are in the game. Especially those who don't follow Smash religiously.

You also need to pretty much be aware of this ordering to begin with and given that Ultimate sold almost as much as every other Smash game combined, there will obviously be a lot of people for whom this won't apply and this ordering is just confusing for them since this is their first Smash game ever, even if I personally like it since it retroactively makes DLC ordering feel less forced in like it was in Smash 4.

Even knowing that a game starts with [X character] and ends with [Y character] can cause someone to forget what's in-between, so your "advice" isn't helpful.

With that said, Loungeman will absolutely be in the right but for the wrong reasons; Ultimate has become one of gaming's biggest licensing nightmares ever, so it's basically impossible for us to see every character from it make a return. It's not gonna be because the roster is clunky like he said, but because of the herculean task it was to make that roster to begin with.

 

[ForsakenM]

Even with that, it's not always easy for everyone to remember all the 89 characters that are in the game. Especially those who don't follow Smash religiously.

You also need to pretty much be aware of this ordering to begin with and given that Ultimate sold almost as much as every other Smash game combined, there will obviously be a lot of people for whom this won't apply and this ordering is just confusing for them since this is their first Smash game ever, even if I personally like it since it retroactively makes DLC ordering feel less forced in like it was in Smash 4.

Even knowing that a game starts with [X character] and ends with [Y character] can cause someone to forget what's in-between, so your "advice" isn't exactly helpful.

With that said, Loungeman will absolutely be in the right but for the wrong reasons; Ultimate has become one of gaming's biggest licensing nightmares ever, so it's basically impossible for us to see every character from it make a return. It's not gonna be because the roster is clunky like he said, but because of the herculean task it was to make that roster to begin with.

For the first part of this, Sakurai said as much in the beginning promotion of Ultimate well before DLC. It was stated in a Smash Direct that it was as such, and you don't have to follow Smash religiously to know the order. You can be someone who plays Smash with friends and never talk about it online. Sure, for people who started with Smash 4 or Ultimate I can understand, but if you've merely casually enjoyed each Smash game since OG 64 much like myself, then a couple minutes looking at the character select gives you 'Oh, the original 12 are at the beginning...oh, and then it's Melee characters...' and so on and so forth.

The real issue is not having options on character select ordering, as I know tons of peeps would like to group them by their IP.

So I actually made a HUGE post about this, but I'm forcing myself to make content again so it will be turned into a video instead.

TL;DR on that one is that Ultimate made nearly 4 billion in gross across initial release, Plant, FP1, FP2 and all the Mii Costumes without trying to count something impossible like how many people bought a Switch for Smash or accessories. They most likely made 3 billion profit out of that, with the realistic lowest you could go for development costs being between 2 and 2.5 billion, the great majority of it spent during base game development.

People act like all these third parties cost millions or billions of dollars to license, which they just flat-out don't: getting the green light to use someone's IP or character requires a contractual agreement of an amount paid (either a lump sum of cashola or royalties, most often lump sum) and both parties agreeing to a set of rules that end up being mutually beneficial by the end of it. Nintendo would never approve paying an insane amount for any third party character as it eats too much into their profits, so any agreement has to be that Nintendo pays a lump sum small enough that Ultimate is still a profit and, more than likely, that just making the money off the character themselves of the pass they are in will be profit even after the check is cashed to the IP owner.

Lastly, Nintendo is a big boy company and brings a metric **** ton of negotiating power to the table, no matter WHO they are sitting down with: They are the company that made what most know as their first home console, they own Mr. Video Games Himself as well as JRPG that created a cultural shift and many other insanely notable and iconic IPs, are the richest company in Japan PERIOD (if still true, if not then damn close) and the Switch is the hottest commodity in town despite being far behind the competition in hardware. This doesn't factor what Sakurai brings to the table as a knowledgeable and incredibly dedicated dev and director who seems like a wish-granting wizard half the time, nor Smash itself being the OG platformer that has an absolute titan of a roster and that, even when lacking basic functions smaller platform fighters have, will be the face of the genre possibly forever. Newest on the list of achievements is that not even Big **** Disney could say no.

People have been begging for their characters to get in since Melee, and when Nintendo pulls up with Sakurai to your negotiation table, it becomes hard to negotiate for anything other than 'Make sure you do the character and series justice' which Sakurai always does. At that point, I think money is a lesser issue entirely. You also aren't considering part of the contract possibly including the characters to return in the future, nor the success of these character's inclusions making third party companies much more likely to be more agreeable at a future meeting.

And yes, that was the TL;DR. You all should know me by now.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I appreciate the Geno support of course, but I have to disagree with Waluigi being a Wario character.

As much as I love Geno, Waluigi is the most requested Mario character, flat out. Geno is right behind him of course, and TECHNICALLY Geno keeps outplacing him in polls but that could easily change in the coming times. On top of that, Geno is a Mario character by proxy, whereas Waluigi is a flat-out Mario character, having been introduced in Mario Tennis.

I agree Mario should dominate the roster more than, say, Fire Emblem (which I would be fine with it it was a bit more successful and they reached deep for picks like Lyn, Hector and whatnot just to have more interesting character movesets. GIVE ME A PLAYABLE GENERAL IN SMASH!) but Mario is running out of reps to take from with his main series in terms of big names. Seriously, we are down to Toad, Toadette and one-off appearances. Waluigi branches into the spin-offs more than Daisy does, and Paper Mario seems like an excellent step to take after we honor the first Mario RPG.

While I personally would be down with changes, well...it seems like I'm in the minority, or at least that's how it was if things have changed. I remember not liking FLUDD in Brawl only because I liked Mario Tornado much more as a move but grew to accept that change, but I remember people dropping characters due to the smallest changes, so I'm not sure if the masses of Smashers have reached that level of 'Yeah, it's about time they got a change to their moveset.'

One way to solve this would having 'Legacy Versions' of a character that are selectable from the character select with a button combination or like the Echo Fighter feature to swap between the updated and legacy versions of the character.



If only he didn't keep leaving his bazooka at home! He'd stand out so much more that way.

For some reason, when I read this, I was reminded of this:

Mario characters iceberg meme

This is why I don't want Nintendo Kart, we barely have anything from below the 3rd tier yet. I want some tier 4, 5 and 6 picks. There's no good reason not to do the deep cuts imo. Other than Nintendo being terrified normies won't buy it. pic.twitter.com/1GfJhDGBRC

— Jamey (Fawfulthegreat64) 🏳️‍⚧️ (@Fawfulthgreat64) January 8, 2022

It might just be the Mario Kart 9/Nintendo Kart debate constantly on my Twitter feed, but it IS a nice showcase of hypothetical Mario reps for if they ever decided to deviate from the norm.

(Also, does anybody recognise the fourth guy on the bottom row? I recognise Oogtar, Bluster Kong, and Indiana Joe, but not him).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The main Toad is... actually pretty easy to tell. it's the basic playable one. Boom, done. It's the most iconic missing character thusfar among First Parties, yeah. And no, the Toads from NSMB are clearly not the same ones. There's only one main Toad, after all. Only real issue was never giving him a proper name like in Japan, so it's reasonably understandable people didn't get this very well. That, and the main Toad sometimes wears the same colors as the regular Toad species too. There's no doubt having something more stand out physically would be good, but he isn't lacking ether.

Captain Toad is a completely different character with at most a shared personality and same race. They don't really share the same core abilities either. Captain Toad getting more games doesn't mean anything because it's not the main Toad anyway. Different guy. There's nothing to fix. They're both interesting and unique characters. Just one has had significantly more appearances, including in other media. Captain Toad has a lot before he'll be on regular Toad's status, sure, but that's not a big deal anyway. They both stand out in their own right.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Hot take time: Toad is the most notable Nintendo character and a strong candidate for the most notable video game character to not currently be playable in Smash.

For Mario characters? Definitely.

Out of all Nintendo characters? Yeah, I think you're still right.

Give me Captain Toad/Toadette.

 

[cashregister9]

街で見かけた"ガ"がつく乗りもの pic.twitter.com/mFLjMdkg4M

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) January 10, 2022

Super Robot Wars character in Smash when?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Toad's biggest issue is that he doesn't stand out.

It's not helped that there are multiple of them, and Mario canon can barely decide if there's a single important Toad, or several unimportant Toads.

At least we know Yoshi is an individual.

That said, the easiest fix to this is to just have Captain Toad show up in more stuff. Captain Toad fixes all of those issues.

I'm fully expecting Captain Toad to be playable next time too. It's just a character easy to overlook in a way. Might be cause many don't find him the most exiting possibility. I have the same with Bandana Dee, whom I also find very deserving yet not too exiting either. But I guess a couple of characters fall under these criteria.