Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Perkilator]

If we had a boss that was meant to feel like fighting an actual character but it wasn't an actual character who should it be? Like a boss with more complexity in how they move and interact with the player, maybe even having to fight them in a traditional "launch them into the blast zone" fight rather than with a health bar. Something in between the general feel of Giga Bowser in Melee and Ultimate.

Basically recreating fighting game bosses or even Sephiroth Challenge but not to the point of "you could be a playable character and no one would bat an eye barring the fact you're broken as hell", because you don't wanna create a new full character that no one could play as.

Maybe Safer Sephiroth, who’s a shirtless Sephiroth with permanent Winged Form and his Very Hard AI from the Sephiroth Challenge?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah. No matter what Smash 6 does people will be disappointed.

That's fine, as long as it's other people.

If we had a boss that was meant to feel like fighting an actual character but it wasn't an actual character who should it be? Like a boss with more complexity in how they move and interact with the player, maybe even having to fight them in a traditional "launch them into the blast zone" fight rather than with a health bar. Something in between the general feel of Giga Bowser in Melee and Ultimate.

Basically recreating fighting game bosses or even Sephiroth Challenge but not to the point of "you could be a playable character and no one would bat an eye barring the fact you're broken as hell", because you don't wanna create a new full character that no one could play as.

I mean, obviously we should never have such a character.

But if we did, Sephiroth would have been it.

Maybe Safer Sephiroth, who’s a shirtless Sephiroth with permanent Winged Form and his Very Hard AI from the Sephiroth Challenge?

That's not what Safer Sephiroth is though...

 

[Sucumbio]

Sephiroth's lower body has been replaced by a cloud, with six massive blue-tipped wings protruding from where his legs should be. He is shirtless and has two linked halos, one larger than the other, behind him, with the larger one possessing a sun symbol. His hair, now without bangs, curves upwards in a gravity-defying manner. Sephiroth's right arm is replaced by a dark red wing and his face appears angered with his eyebrows furrowed.

I'd wager this would be a crazy Boss Fight lol

 

[SPEN18]

I wouldn't mind most future third party additions only coming from the companies that are already involved in Smash, as it could at least keep the pool of people who need to be negotiated with relatively small

Not a bad idea. Probably most people wouldn't want something like this to be a hard and fast rule, but most of the third parties I'd be okay with are indeed from companies already involved.

Ironically, Game Freak still doesn't seem to mind adding in more bloat.

Yeah idk why they do this to themselves. I think the vast majority of people would understand if they slowed it down, especially if it meant a better chance at National or near-National Dex by the end of each Gen. And easy things like changing up archetypes would also demonstrate a tinge more originality than usual.

 

[Garteam]

While I do love Ultimate and I think an Ultimate Deluxe would be a great opportunity to supplement a lot of my more minor complaints with that game, I've also put 350+ hours into Ultimate over these past 3 years. I've got every spirit (minus the Chozo Soldier, which I believe is still not in rotation for whatever reason), I've completed every character's classic mode, and I've beat WoL three times now. I have no idea how many versus matches I have played since launch, but I believe the number is floating around 2000.

My point is, I feel as though I've really got the full experience of Ultimate at this point and, honestly, I certainly would not be opposed to something new in the future. Even if Ultimate is revived for the next console, what happens after that? All good things must come to an end eventually and I don't think 3 years of DLC support and 25 million copies sold is the worst place in the world to stop.

I'd be thrilled to see more characters, stages, and modes in an Ultimate Deluxe, but I also don't want Smash Bros. to become Grand Theft Auto and constantly rerelease the same game over and over in favour of developing something new. I'm more than willing to make peace with the idea that the next Smash will not have 89+ characters so long as it is actually the next Smash.

I'd also like to see some of the cast get updated tools and some of Ultimate's mechanics changed (namely, the way movement on platforms is handled), which may be beyond the scope of a simple rerelease. However, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe also changed and added mechanics, so I guess I can't say I'd be inherently opposed to an Ultimate Deluxe for not being able to make those changes until I see that Ultimate Deluxe can't make those changes.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Come to think of it, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (and similar ports) may be a major reason I don't want an Ultimate Deluxe whatsoever.

For context, I loved the original Mario Kart 8, but avoided getting Deluxe in its current state. There's an inexcusable amount of content for old players, and although I grasp the reason for that decision, I'm refuse to commend it. If they were ever to think of adding on to the original in ways that are way less minor than what they did, way after the fact, I may end up giving it more credit. But as far as I care, the Switch has yet to obtain its own proper Mario Kart title (Home Circuit blatantly excluded).

On the other hand, Ultimate is a game I really didn't end up liking the direction of. I've made that pretty clear. So imagine if they ported that game for the next Smash opportunity, in a similar manner to the Mario Kart of this generation. Complete with paid DLC already unlocked and bare minimum tweaks. People seem to think that's nothing but a benefit; perhaps it's understandable that they want to cling onto something they enjoy. But I hardly tolerated two generations of the same game, even for one I was originally having fun with.

At some point, copying the same game over and over will get stale. Unfortunately, this is a complaint that's super inconsistent with how it's presented, but I stand by my argument that Smash shouldn't be exempt from this.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I keep going on and on about how more casuals have played SSBU than vanilla MK8, and thus MK8D might as well have been a new game to the majority, but let me also ask this:

What if the next Nintendo system is only a success the way the SNES, GBA, and 3DS were? Which, while still successful, were not the absolute behemoths the original NES, Game Boy, and DS were, and thus titles on it might not achieve the same sales as Switch titles have. This combined with a few million people going "meh I already played SSBU to death" would ensure an SSBU Deluxe would not achieve the same success as the Switch's version of the game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Mario Kart really needs an "Everytrack Is Here!" game.

Sephiroth's lower body has been replaced by a cloud, with six massive blue-tipped wings protruding from where his legs should be. He is shirtless and has two linked halos, one larger than the other, behind him, with the larger one possessing a sun symbol. His hair, now without bangs, curves upwards in a gravity-defying manner. Sephiroth's right arm is replaced by a dark red wing and his face appears angered with his eyebrows furrowed.

I never realized his waist was supposed to be a cloud...

That makes him part Mallow. And that makes him significantly less cool.

This combined with a few million people going "meh I already played SSBU to death" would ensure an SSBU Deluxe would not achieve the same success as the Switch's version of the game.

And what about that exact same situation combined with a few million people going "Meh, SSB6 has, like, half the characters as SSBU" do you think somehow WOULD achieve Switch's success?

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Mario Kart really needs an "Everytrack Is Here!" game.

I never realized his waist was supposed to be a cloud...

That makes him part Mallow. And that makes him significantly less cool.

Did you said Mallow?
You reminded me about Geno.

 

[Perkilator]

Here’s a music wishlist I keep updating over time. Keep in mind that a lot of the linked videos might be unavailable because of copyright.

 

[Geno Boost]

I know some wants next smash game to be made from scratch instead of deluxe version with more contents and upgrades.
But remember that Sakurai was running out of budget during the development of smash ultimate and it’s a painful game to develop.
Deluxe version of smash ultimate seems to be the healthiest option currently.

 

[osby]

I know some wants next smash game to be made from scratch instead of deluxe version with more contents and upgrades.
But remember that Sakurai was running out of budget during the development of smash ultimate and it’s a painful game to develop.
Deluxe version of smash ultimate seems to be the healthiest option currently.

Wait, I know Ultimate wasn't easy to develop but when did he say they were running out of budget?

 

[Sucumbio]

Wait, I know Ultimate wasn't easy to develop but when did he say they were running out of budget?

He made a comment about "budget constraints" around the time Hero dropped but to be clear he was referring to the fact he has to do the reveals and presents himself because Nintendo does not fund DLC reveals. This includes the scripts, graphics, overall presentation, basically he's said that not only does he do a ton of work on the actual game but he was also at the helm of the game's marketing. No wonder he's so happy it's over lol.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Mario Kart really needs an "Everytrack Is Here!" game.

Man, Mario Kart crossroad would bring everyone Back.
And It will add non-Mario characters like Fox, Samus, Captain Falcon, Kirby, Olimar and even Chibi-Robo!
Also, speaking of Nintendo Characters, Mario Kart will also include Niche Nintendo Characters like ExciteBiker or Mach Rider.

 

[Chuderz]

You gotta disappoint somebody anyway. You can either disappoint people by scaling the crossover back, or disappoint people by not adding any more newcomers except for a new Pokemon/FE promo pick, depending on timing. That's just how reality is.

I don't think bringing everyone back guarantees that Pokemon and FE are the only series to receive newcomers. I know it's just hyperbole but I don't even think it guarantees that newcomers are skimped out on again. That was part of the sacrifice to bring EiH to the game in the first place. That same sacrifice wouldn't have to be made again or at least to as much of an extent as it was to do in Ultimate with an Ultimate DX being able to capitalize on that pre-established work.

I know, but regardless I don't want anybody to feel uncomfortable here, anyway.

Appreciated.

In a non-port situation it's not much less work at all, for one. Most of the time/resources saved are just in the planning stages it would seem, because once you know how the new character would work it's not any harder really to build them from the ground up. Vets still have to be delicately rebalanced and such for every iteration of the game. And reusing assets from the last console doesn't save much time relatively speaking if you have to massively modify them to look proper on the new console, which is what I meant about using Brawl stuff on the Wii U. Clearly the Smash 4 models took a ton of effort even if they were able to use Brawl stuff as a starting point (which I was aware that they were able to do to some extent).

But regardless of the work necessary for vets vs. newcomers, I'd rather they largely pick the most iconic and/or historically important ones and leave considerations of time-saving for the low-priority roster padding (and only to the extent that it is deemed necessary). So not just maximum efficiency in terms of raw roster size or percentage of returning vets.

Of course if you're as committed to EiH as your comments suggest, then you and I have some deep-rooted differences in opinion but hopefully you can see a bit of where I'm coming from.

Not to come up short in response to such a thoughtful comment but I believe the last portion of your statement sums this up nicely. We have different priorities when it comes to the Ultimate's successor and that's about that. I do see where you're coming from. I'd personally just like for this Ultimate DX opportunity to be capitalized on so that Everyone is Here is at least retained for one more go around and so that Smash isn't in hibernation for such a long time. I also feel like Ultimate has so much more potential than where it's currently at. I know it could go on forever and ever but I just think it could go so much further with Ultimate as the day 0. I dream up what that'd look that while trying to stay within the realm of "possibility" but when my imagination runs wild it arrives at the Smash the community has envisioned for over a decade at this point. I simply want the best chance at that dream Smash game versus an engine overhaul and the like. I think Ultimate DX is that chance.

S4 to Ult was a unique transition due to the Switch's power not being that much greater than that of the Wii U (due to the portable hybrid shift). It's been argued by myself and others that we're unlikely to get a new console where reuse of assets can be done without the major facelifts that were required for, say, Brawl to 4.

As for some of the other parts of your post, I agree that there is some short-term risk in moving away from things like EiH or tons of third party crossovers. A lot of people will not like some of it, at least initially. But I also think that a solid, well-made Smash entry would recover from such things pretty quickly and could be better for the series' health long-term if they clean up and refocus the roster/content. Although the PC roster is the main focus, I actually think the stage lineup could also be streamlined a bit while still doing an even better job of representing the most iconic locales. "Everywhere is Here" is pretty non-essential IMO.

Again I see where you're coming from and I think they're absolutely considerations the development team will have to ponder. I just think Ultimate DX should suffice as a platform for these considerations. As much I don't really know I just can't help but feel like that makes sense to me. I think while the Switch's successor will be more powerful and that can make for a somewhat awkward transition porting it over I think it can be done well given the time it needs to be done well. Ultimate DX's new stages could have a more in-depth design philosophy similar to Orbital Gate Assault/Jungle Hijinks. All while retaining EiH.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Ryu Hayabusa hung out with Mario...

crossed over with Metroid...

oh and he had a brief appearance in Captain N...

But yeah, he's truly an honorary Nintendo character. Plus, to add to that, Nintendo funded Razor's Edge. So he basically has it all..

I'm not opposed to more third parties, though I am part of the group who considers Smash to be a Nintendo cross-over first and foremost. Personally, I wouldn't mind most future third party additions only coming from the companies that are already involved in Smash, as it could at least keep the pool of people who need to be negotiated with relatively small (though I would like Reimu to get in there). But then again, we already have Disney involved, so that already seems like a nightmare for the prospects of keeping Everyone Is Here intact, the potential for Ultimate to ever get a future re-release, or even just the possibility that Ultimate's DLC won't be removed for the remainder of the Switch eShop's lifespan (looking at you, World of Final Fantasy).

Fortunately for me, all of my MWs are from companies that are already involved in Smash, so I'd be okay with this.

 

[Simnm]

He made a comment about "budget constraints" around the time Hero dropped but to be clear he was referring to the fact he has to do the reveals and presents himself because Nintendo does not fund DLC reveals. This includes the scripts, graphics, overall presentation, basically he's said that not only does he do a ton of work on the actual game but he was also at the helm of the game's marketing. No wonder he's so happy it's over lol.

Nintendo does not fund the dlc especially the cinematic dlc reveals?

 

[Dinoman96]

Banjo & Kazooie to me are the true definition of an "honorary Nintendo character". They're not just third party characters closely associated with Nintendo platforms (Mega Man, Travis Touchdown, Phoenix Wright, Ryu Hayabusa), they literally flat out were Nintendo characters.

I think Bayonetta also qualifies, because even though SEGA still owns her, her recent games have been both funded and published by Nintendo worldwide and they're basically the one reason Bayo is still even a thing after the first game. It's pretty telling that she was the one and only third party character to have physical props based on her at Nintendo's Smash booth at E3 2008.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is that...Fester, from Fester's Quest?

Fortunately for me, all of my MWs are from companies that are already involved in Smash, so I'd be okay with this.

Hmm, I think I'm only missing...is Koei Tecmo in Smash at all? Other than that, just missing Falcom.

Edit: Oh yes, Fatal Frame.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That same sacrifice wouldn't have to be made again or at least to as much of an extent as it was to do in Ultimate with an Ultimate DX being able to capitalize on that pre-established work.

Yeah, it would be, since Ultimate was already reusing a ton of Smash 4 work. All the potential solutions to Team Newcomer's woes were attempted by it. Except for...uh...Nintendo canceling all the non-Smash projects so money could be invested into Smash and Smash alone, but that ain't happening. Hell even had some variables copied straight from Melee, ignoring how gameplay has changed since then, and yet a bunch of cool newcomer ideas STILL had to get AT'd because balancing a huge roster of fighters is a huge pain, and Ult's balance ain't perfect so more time will be spent trying to fix it in a potential Ultimate port.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Is that...Fester, from Fester's Quest?

Yep.

Hmm, I think I'm only missing...is Koei Tecmo in Smash at all? Other than that, just missing Falcom.

Edit: Oh yes, Fatal Frame.

I might look more into the Nihon Falcom games.

 

[Geno Boost]

Man, Mario Kart crossroad would bring everyone Back.
And It will add non-Mario characters like Fox, Samus, Captain Falcon, Kirby, Olimar and even Chibi-Robo!
Also, speaking of Nintendo Characters, Mario Kart will also include Niche Nintendo Characters like ExciteBiker or Mach Rider.

Excitebike, Mach Rider, Stunt Race FX, F-zero and Diddy Kong racing characters would be a smart thing to add due them actually being a racers and due to them not having a future it would be a good thing to revive them in Mario Kart but not sure if Nintendo would be willing to do that its seems they rather go for promotion and modern characters
Sadly its unlikely

 

[HyperSomari64]

Ryu Hayabusa hung out with Mario...

Was the crossed Turtle on the Nintendo Power cover Michelangelo or Raphael?

 

[AlRex]

Was the crossed Turtle on the Nintendo Power cover Michelangelo or Raphael?

Orange bandana + nunchucks, so it’s Mikey.

I would rather have the TMNT than SpongeBob or Goku, oddly enough.

 

[Stratos]

Mario's new movie will be released on December 21, 2022, I was expecting it to be released at least somewhere in July. Anyway I look forward to seeing her like everyone else, in other words I will be patient.

I want to hope that Super Smash Bros. Ultimate will not be the last game in the series. I am writing this because I read rumors that Masahiro Sakurai will leave the series. If he really gives it up let him give someone else permission to continue.

 

[Dinoman96]

Excitebike, Mach Rider, Stunt Race FX, F-zero and Diddy Kong racing characters would be a smart thing to add due them actually being a racers and due to them not having a future it would be a good thing to revive them in Mario Kart but not sure if Nintendo would be willing to do that its seems they rather go for promotion and modern characters
Sadly its unlikely

Just so you know, unlike those other series you've mentioned, Nintendo has zero ownership of anyone in Diddy Kong Racing with the sole exceptions of Diddy and Krunch, and Dixie and Tiny if we're counting the DS remake. Everyone else in that game has and always has belonged to Rare (with the exception of Banjo, who WAS owned by Nintendo prior to 2002).

If anyone here is confused about the legal issues surrounding DKR, this here DK Vine article should clear everything up.

DK Vine • News • Fangamer Launches 'RareRacers' Branding for Rare's Diddy Kong Racing Intellectual Properties

Fangamer kicks off the new brand with Timber and Banjo pins, complete with red and yellow weapons balloons!

dkvine.com

 

[Dan Quixote]

Mario Kart really needs an "Everytrack Is Here!" game.

Hold up wouldn't that be upwards of like over a hundred tracks?

 

[Sucumbio]

Nintendo does not fund the dlc especially the cinematic dlc reveals?

correct. Except for joker’s reveal trailer which apparently cost a small fortune Nintendo put the responsibility for all DLC reveal trailers, presents etc on Sakurai which is why he made them the way he did as a cost saving measure.

 

[Guynamednelson]

correct. Except for joker’s reveal trailer which apparently cost a small fortune Nintendo put the responsibility for all DLC reveal trailers, presents etc on Sakurai which is why he made them the way he did as a cost saving measure.

Yeah but...I don't get how people can truly think Sakurai has a small budget, even with Mr. Sakurai Presents having to replace Joker-style presentations. He was still able to produce 2 DLC passes with 4 third-parties each. He was able to afford CG trailers for DLC characters, unlike in Smash 4. if anything maybe his budget's TOO big

 

[Stratos]

Banjo the Bear and Conker the Squirrel are characters who made their debut in Diddy Kong Racing. Diddy Kong as it is known is from the Donkey Kong series, which is a sub-series of the Mario franchise, also known. So the Banjo-Kazooie and Conker series should not be considered as sub-series of the Mario franchise?

 

[Sucumbio]

Yeah but...I don't get how people can truly think Sakurai has a small budget, even with Mr. Sakurai Presents having to replace Joker-style presentations. He was still able to produce 2 DLC passes with 4 third-parties each. He was able to afford CG trailers for DLC characters, unlike in Smash 4. if anything maybe his budget's TOO big

I don’t know why people think his budget is small. It’s gotta be in the millions it seems to me, but how that money is spent seems to fall into one of two sub budgets so game design and advertising/marketing with the latter using up a majority on Joker (for a reason I don’t know) and leaving what was left for Sakurai to use being just enough to get what we got.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don’t know why people think his budget is small. It’s gotta be in the millions it seems to me, but how that money is spent seems to fall into one of two sub budgets so game design and advertising/marketing with the latter using up a majority on Joker (for a reason I don’t know) and leaving what was left for Sakurai to use being just enough to get what we got.

He mentioned his budget isn't what he wishes it was recently, but I don't know why he thinks it's not big enough, seeing as how he was able to have Sora be the finale. Unless too much money went into licensing Sora specifically and not enough on his moveset, I mean it isn't really anything special.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Was the crossed Turtle on the Nintendo Power cover Michelangelo or Raphael?

If you mean the PlayChoice-10 pic. yeah that's Michelangelo.

 

[HyperSomari64]

If you mean the PlayChoice-10 pic. yeah that's Michelangelo.

No, this infamous image with Batman and Little Nemo, it was to celebrate the NES 25th Anniversary in North America

 

[Stratos]

Conker the squirrel made his debut in the kid-friendly Diddy Kong Racing, then started his solo career with his first game Conker's Pocket Tales which is also kid-friendly. But then do they do it for a very mature age from Conker's Bad Fur Day? What I want to conclude is not to wait for Conker in future Super Smash Bros. games. If he is going to appear in a Super Smash Bros. game, they start making his kid-friendly games, even though it's too late.

 

[Stratos]

Regarding 2022, as far as Nintendo is concerned, I think it will be full of surprises.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So Nintendo really doesn’t fund DLC reveals? That’s news to me

 

[Wonder Smash]

No, this infamous image with Batman and Little Nemo, it was to celebrate the NES 25th Anniversary in North America

Which pic is that?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Regarding 2022, as far as Nintendo is concerned, I think it will be full of surprises.

Also depends on if you're willing to hear out the likes of Markomaro and LeakyPandy: they've been on a leaking spree lately.

But it's Markomaro and LeakyPandy, so I wouldn't advice that...

 

[HyperSomari64]

Which pic is that?