Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I [REDACTED]ing love Hades

Who doesn't?

Hades is probably the best Nintendo villain around.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I remembered something before Joker was revealed, I actually predicted the character to be revealed a few days before that it would be Sephiroth when the 7 Square characters leak came out.

2 years later that prediction of mine came true.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

His taunts, HIS TAUNTS.

His everything, really.

It's Hades. Literally everything he does would be oozing personality and snarky comments

 

[Momotsuki]

7 Square characters leak

I beg your pardon?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Little does Samus know the team already sent the invite expecting her to say yes.

"And then Ridley killed the Smash cast. The end!"

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I see Black Shadow talk. Nice.

if Ult DX becomes a thing I’d love to see him in

also, caption this:

pic.twitter.com/piT0yfud47

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) December 15, 2020

 

[OmegaRS]

I would be okay with Dante, Crash, and BotW Zelda as the final characters. The only gripe I have is I'd rather have Impa than Zelda. Seriously... the only other LoZ staple character that's not yet playable. Why?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I beg your pardon?

Back when Challenger Pack 2 was speculated, credible leakers all got seven possible names for who that pack could be, all of them from Square Enix.

In the end, two of them made it in; Luminary and Erdrick.

That's the most basic version of it.

 

[SneakyLink]

The reaction to the pic of the day was supposed to be here but a funny thing happened. So I'll instead use this post to state that I'm still rooting for Otto Matic to join Smash, even though he has a 0% chance of joining.

 

[cashregister9]

I see Black Shadow talk. Nice.

if Ult DX becomes a thing I’d love to see him in

also, caption this:

pic.twitter.com/piT0yfud47

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) December 15, 2020

Insert Joke About Megaman having the Fire Aspect enchantment

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Medusa is easily the the next Kid Icarus character I want. I haven't played Uprising yet, so my only real experience with Hades is a fan-based one, being Hades' Misguidance. Which, well, I doubt that counts as understanding him well, heh.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I beg your pardon?

The list of Square Enix names heard from Insiders before Hero's reveal it was just before the Game Awards.

Erdrick
Luminary
Slime
Geno
Sora
Sephiroth
Crono

 

[Shroob]

I beg your pardon?

The old 7-Squares list from Vergeben.

Luminary
Erdrick
Slime
Crono
Sephiroth
Geno
...and I forgot the 7th

Were all names that Verg had supposedly heard tossed around iirc

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

also, caption this:

"I didn't start the fire...! ...Wait. Yes I did."

 

[PeridotGX]

I beg your pardon?

Vergeben, THE leaker during base game speculation, had a list of 7 square enix characters that were in talks. They were

Luminary
Erdrick
Slime
Sephiroth
Geno
Chrono
Some other character i don't remember maybe sora or agnes

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The old 7-Squares list from Vergeben.

Luminary
Erdrick
Slime
Crono
Sephiroth
Geno
...and I forgot the 7th

Were all names that Verg had supposedly heard tossed around iirc

It was Sora in fact

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I see Black Shadow talk. Nice.

if Ult DX becomes a thing I’d love to see him in

also, caption this:

pic.twitter.com/piT0yfud47

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) December 15, 2020

Local hero cosplays World War 1 on mentally disabled man.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

The old 7-Squares list from Vergeben.

Luminary
Erdrick
Slime
Crono
Sephiroth
Geno
...and I forgot the 7th

Were all names that Verg had supposedly heard tossed around iirc

7th was Sora.

 

[Momotsuki]

I wonder if they were throwing names around like that just for the sake of interference.
Also I do know who Vergeben is, don't patronize me please. I was here during the era of base game speculation. I just wasn't aware of the list is all, might've been during one of my SB hiatuses when the Square DLC mystery was afoot.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

At that point, just introduce another one like Toon Ganondorf with his own stand-out moveset. They're different versions of the character anyway. Plus, the most weapon-focused one is actually Pig Ganon. While Ganondorf has a knife, he doesn't even use it. He uses a few swords in the games, but those are his only canon weapons. Ganon, despite not having much more, is both a Sword and a Trident user. And that's not even getting into Puppet Ganon who had other unique abilities, including more self-weapons like his tail and whatever a spider could do. He has a very different set of potential that Ganondorf never did.

There's at least two unique Ganon/dorf variations to draw from, if not more.

Eh, I'll have to disagree on that. It's important that each character's moveset fits the character, and Ganondorf's is a miss on that front (at least, for the most part). The solution to that is...not more Ganondorfs, especially when people are already annoyed that the series can't escape the Triforce in terms of newcomers. I think it'd be better to either fix Ganondorf, or replace him with Ganon.

 

[7NATOR]

Does anyone Remember the leak with Claire Redfield, Ryu, Maxwell, and Jonsey, that gained traction because picture of Piranha Plant

 

[Icedragonadam]

The remaining listed characters are probably going to be costumes so my guess on the mii wave is going to be

Final Fantasy VII Costume
Another VII Costume
Chocobo hat
Geno
Crono
Sora(Premium)

Sora is iffy since he is owned by Disney, but it could be possible if he's the premium costume instead of Geno so Disney can get some of the profits they don't need(don't care I'm sassing Disney).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sora is iffy since he is owned by Sora...

I can't decide if this is technically correct or not.

 

[Momotsuki]

The remaining listed characters are probably going to be costumes so my guess on the mii wave is going to be

Final Fantasy VII Costume
Another VII Costume
Chocobo hat
Geno
Crono
Sora(Premium)

Sora is iffy since he is owned by Sora, but it could be possible if he was the premium costume instead of Geno.

I feel like if they could've shook down Disney to get Sora in any capacity, they would've taken him all the way, as a fighter. And I say that as somebody who really doesn't like Sora. Geno is probably a Mii costume again though. Hopefully he's upgraded to a deluxe Mii costume, and we can put this rubbish to bed.

 

[Shroob]

I can't decide if this is technically correct or not.

Deep philosophical debates to be had here.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Eh, I'll have to disagree on that. It's important that each character's moveset fits the character, and Ganondorf's is a miss on that front (at least, for the most part). The solution to that is...not more Ganondorfs, especially when people are already annoyed that the series can't escape the Triforce in terms of newcomers. I think it'd be better to either fix Ganondorf, or replace him with Ganon.

You shouldn't replace a very popular character/moveset combination. He really doesn't need much fixing either way. Like, his moves fit his character just fine. Frankly, his sword sticks out heavily from how he's played in the past and is the hardest to adjust to. He's always been about displaying great power, which is exactly how was designed from the start. Keep in mind he might not even exist if it wasn't for the clone status. That was the core reason he ever got in. The only actual planned changes directly were to incorporate his sword, which they did(decent well, despite the oddities).

He's fine.

Toon Ganondorf is the only one outright hard-focused on swordplay. OOT Ganondorf was never ever that. He never even used a sword once. TP Ganondorf did use it a decent enough amount of time, but also was about his magical prowess and a lot of power overall. Never mind that Ganondorf as a whole absolutely punches and even backhands, as WW showed. The idea he won't do hand-to-hand combat is clearly unfounded. One of his actual artworks is an overhead punch. He often showed his power directly by using shockwave moves with kicks and punches. In a sense, you could say OOT Ganondorf is displayed as a Monk/Mage combo. Smash focuses more on the Monk aspect, cleary. It is ironic that Ganondorf never even uses swords in OOT, saving that for his completely different Ganon form(which shows his Gerudo heritage a bit better, since Gerudo in general are warriors, and lessso mages).

Why would you even replace him with Ganon? He's an iconic villain that easily deserves his own spot and is rather separate from Ganondorf in terms of abilities(they're both iconic and unique). Never mind how many different forms of Ganon there are(without taking Ganondorf's three canon designs into account, who are also quite different. Though TP Ganondorf is much closer to OOT Ganondorf's bodyshape. Toon Ganondorf is as different as Young Link is to Adult Link, or well, Toon Link to Adult Link). We may never get the awesome pig demon, but he makes a lot more sense than ruining an already well-working character. They pretty much fixed all that's really needed in Ultimate to make him competitive, while not changing his playstyle too much. We don't need another problematic change like Mario or Pit, who are rather difficult to adjust to as is(Link is... slightly less changed).

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Sora ain't gonna be a Mii.

Either he's in as a playable character or he's just not in at all.

You really think Nintendo and Disney are gonna go all out of their way to negotiate for a Mii costume?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Medusa is easily the the next Kid Icarus character I want. I haven't played Uprising yet, so my only real experience with Hades is a fan-based one, being Hades' Misguidance. Which, well, I doubt that counts as understanding him well, heh.

Zelda Universe is handling is character pretty well enough, but I'd suggest at least watching a Let's Play to get acquainted with him.

Hades is absolutely an amazing character who can outright steal the show in Uprising, which is saying something because the main cast is absolutely fantastic.

 

[Yashichi]

Sora ain't gonna be a Mii.

Either he's in as a playable character or he's just not in at all.

You really think Nintendo and Disney are gonna go all out of their way to negotiate for a Mii costume?

Yes.

 

[Shroob]

Sephiroth's addition will make the CSS a nice rectangle again.

Then whoever comes after him will probably push Jigglypuff back up with the OG 12.


Insert Thanos balance meme here.

 

[Icedragonadam]

You know what I hope for 10.0.0.

That if you have downloaded Sephiroth, he replaces Master Hand as Cloud's Classic final boss. It help open the door for new bosses to be added via boss rush, WoL expansion etc and replace some of the generic Master Hand and Crazy Hand boss the majority of the roster has. Like for example:

Porky for Ness, Lucas, and Fox(as a Pigma reference)
Medusa for Pit, Palutena, Isabelle(she fights all female characters)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You know what I hope for 10.0.0.

That if you have downloaded Sephiroth, he replaces Master Hand as Cloud's Classic final boss. It help open the door for new bosses to be added via boss rush, WoL expansion etc and replace some of the generic Master Hand and Crazy Hand boss the majority of the roster has. Like for example:

Porky for Ness, Lucas, and Fox(as a Pigma reference)
Medusa for Pit, Palutena, Isabelle(she fights all female characters)

I want Sephiroth's final boss to be Galeem now. >.> That or Dharkon. Either would be funny.

Though a "always in Limit Break full mode" Cloud could be a cool final fight too. ...The first fight should be a Mii Fighter, being an Aerith costume. >.> That or it's a great Spirit option. And she takes double damage/knockback from Sword-based Downthrust moves~

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Keep in mind he might not even exist if it wasn't for the clone status. That was the core reason he ever got in. The only actual planned changes directly were to incorporate his sword, which they did(decent well, despite the oddities).

Erm. Maybe not in Super Smash Bros. Melee, but he would definitely be one of the newcomers in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

In a sense, you could say OOT Ganondorf is displayed as a Monk/Mage combo.

Which is why he's not fine. There is no emphasis on his mage side, he just punches you harder for the most part.

They pretty much fixed all that's really needed in Ultimate to make him competitive, while not changing his playstyle too much.

No he's still garbage like the rest of the heavies not named Bowser. Honestly I'm not sure they can make him competitively viable, but that's neither here nor there.

We don't need another problematic change like Mario or Pit, who are rather difficult to adjust to as is(Link is... slightly less changed).

Changes aren't inherently problematic though. If they serve to better represent a character as they change/better represent them in general (like with Pit/Wolf), or give them a better design (like with Roy) then I don't see the problem.

And sure, it can be done poorly, for example, Falco could have been handled better, but it can also make characters better (I doubt anyone would want Roy to go back to the way he was in Super Smash Bros. Melee). There is also the nostalgia angle that you've presented, but I personally don't think that justifies keeping the not-so-great portrayals of characters and ussalvageable moveset designs.

EDIT: Besides, characters change a ton over the series anyway. Even the most consistent characters like Fox feel way different in Ultimate from how they do in Brawl or Melee.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

My final bets on Miis for Sephiroth’s presentation:

• Neku (Brawler)
• Lara (Gunner, it was originally Barret but I was like nah)
• 2B (Swordfighter)
• Crono (Swordfighter)
• Geno (Returning Gunner)
• Chocobo (Returning Hat)
• Non-Square Enix PreMiium: Monokuma (Brawler, Danganronpa Medley song included)

see what I did there? 7 costumes???

the other franchises that aren’t Monokuma DR have their music bundled with him. I’ll get to that in another post

...rip Sora tho he gets nothing

ah yes that brings me to...

my wild ass prediction of what non-Mii content Sephiroth will bring

Spirit Board:

• Barret
• Aerith
• Tifa
• Cid
• Vincent
• Red XIII
• AND HERE'S WHERE THINGS GET INTERESTING - THEY GONNA PULL A TERRY WITH HIM AND INCLUDE CONTENT FROM OTHER S-E GAMES. First up: Terra (FFVI)
• Noctis (FFXV)
• Lightning (FFXIII)
• Agnes (Bravely Default)
• Neku (The World Ends With You)
• 2B (NieR Automata)
• Edge Maverick (Star Ocean The Last Hope)
• Roddick Farrence (Star Ocean First Departure R)
• Crono (Chrono Trigger)
• ...and they're also gonna throw the Geno Spirit in here too for who heckin knows what reason

Music:

• One Winged Angel (new remix)
• J-E-N-O-V-A (Dissidia ver)
• Decisive Battle (FFVI)
• Saber's Edge (FFXIII)
• A Beautiful Song (NieR Automata)
• That Person's Name Is (Bravely Default)
• Chrono Trigger Battle Theme (Remix)
• Dragon God (Chrono Cross)
• Blood On The Keys (Star Ocean The Last Hope)
• Stab The Sword of Justice (Star Ocean Second Evolution)
• Beware The Forest's Mushrooms (Super Mario RPG)
• Twister Remix (The World Ends With You)
• ...does Tomb Raider have notable music? If so throw it here i guess

Other:

• the FIRST EVER DLC ASSIST TROPHY: Aerith Gainsborough. I'm going all in my dudes

if this happens this may be my favorite fighter pack not necessarily for Sephiroth himself but the content he brings

also i am begging u guys to play at least one (1) star ocean game. it's like tales but in SPAAAAAAAAAAACE

So yeh tag me if anything in these posts come true and/or we get a Zack spirit and/or Very Hard Mode for WoL aaaaaaand if the Lloyd costume is NOT in Sephiroth’s presentation cuz if that’s the case bring on dat KOS-MOS

got a long ass week of work ahead of me and will most likely miss the presentation

also once we get the Sephiroth alt as a premium bg imma use it to simp

but a friendly reminder to simp responsibly else I’m bringing out that bonk stick

See ya in socials and support threads till then, Rie OUT

 

[Momotsuki]

The reaction to the pic of the day was supposed to be here but a funny thing happened. So I'll instead use this post to state that I'm still rooting for Otto Matic to join Smash, even though he has a 0% chance of joining.

Otto Matic, as a video game character, does not have a 0% chance of joining. It's unlikely as all hell, don't get me wrong, but surely we've learned by now; if it's a video game character being discussed, the chance does exist. Madotsuki from Yume Nikki, my most wanted. Unlikely? Hugely unlikely. But I don't think she's downright impossible, I really don't. You should never feel discouraged about merely rooting for any character. Besides Jonesy. If you want Jonesy, shame on you.

 

[7NATOR]

Actually, On Bosses, There is something I wonder

Momotsuki

Do you know if the Spirit Battles and Boss Spirits are coded Differently? What I mean is that when you enter a Boss fight in World of Light, they have the Same Menu as if you enter a Regular Spirit Battle? Is there a Difference between the Normal spirits and Boss spirits

Because if no difference, it would imply that they may have to deliberately Exclude the Boss Spirits from being Refought

 

[SirBillyBob]

Man, everytime someone mentions Kid Icarus and talks about Hades, I can't help but think of this dude instead.

And Since we're talking about Hades, go play it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Erm. Maybe not in Super Smash Bros. Melee, but he would definitely be one of the newcomers in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

I wouldn't even call it a "definitely". We haven't even seen a proper cameo of the original Ganon alone. Just some of the other variations. His 8-bit, ALTTP, nowhere to be found. He's a lucky addition, honestly.

Which is why he's not fine. There is no emphasis on his mage side, he just punches you harder for the most part.

Except the fact he's using magic. It's not "punch harder". They're counted as elemental attacks, which is only something he can do through magic alone. He's absolutely a magic user. The Monk part is just how he launches an attack, as in the basic fighting animations. The elements are his mage side.

No he's still garbage like the rest of the heavies not named Bowser. Honestly I'm not sure they can make him competitively viable, but that's neither here nor there.

He's not remotely garbage. That's only been the case in Brawl and Brawl alone. He's been competitively viable in the other games. He's just not high tier since he has no projectiles.

Changes aren't inherently problematic though. If they serve to better represent a character as they change/better represent them in general (like with Pit/Wolf), or give them a better design (like with Roy) then I don't see the problem.

Pit was just given Uprising abilities. He lost one of his more notable items, the Mirror Shield, and even his own gliding. He's not really better represented, honestly. He's like in the same spot, cause it was just "new game show-off" moreso than actual iconic moves. He's a very poor example in that regard. Ganondorf's only real change is to get non-canon stuff.

And sure, it can be done poorly, for example, Falco could have been handled better, but it can also make characters better (I doubt anyone would want Roy to go back to the way he was in Super Smash Bros. Melee). There is also the nostalgia angle that you've presented, but I personally don't think that justifies keeping the not-so-great portrayals of characters and ussalvageable moveset designs.

Roy's animations changed, and he's a bit more unique, but he's just more like Ganondorf has been since Brawl. The only actual characters that were beyond desperately bad that weren't intentionally jokes were Zelda/Sheik and Pokemon Trainer, and Zelda was only somewhat fixed(but definitely better) where the rest were made better. They didn't lose a lot of what makes them really stand-out either. Charizard literally lost... one move overall(Rock Smash), and Sheik gained a new move. Zelda still needs more speed overall, as her projectile is not enough.

Ganondorf on the other hand got a lot better range and power with his sword(which is hard to adjust to, since he was a tank in Brawl and 4, but obviously that didn't help as much. 4 buffed him enough so he was usable, though he'd still be low due to projectiles and massive range, along with speed, being a definer of Smash in terms of high tier options. And that's only mostly the case now. As that wasn't really what made Ice Climbers so good).

 

[Joinallthreacs.smash]

Man, everytime someone mentions Kid Icarus and talks about Hades, I can't help but think of this dude instead.
View attachment 295593
And Since we're talking about Hades, go play it.

Both of them would be cool, and then that way we get a battle of the hades

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I wouldn't even call it a "definitely". We haven't even seen a proper cameo of the original Ganon alone. Just some of the other variations. His 8-bit, ALTTP, nowhere to be found. He's a lucky addition, honestly.

So you're telling me that if Ganondorf was not added as a clone of Captain Falcon, there is a possibility that the The Legend of Zelda series would not have any form of its main villain right now? We can agree to disagree on everything else, but I'm gonna have to call B.S. here.

He lost one of his more notable items, the Mirror Shield, and even his own gliding.

To be fair, that mechanic was universally removed due to how incredibly unbalanced it was. Steve did make it work though, so maybe they could give it back to him in the future.

Side note, he did use to wield The Three Sacred Treasures in his Final Smash, so they weren't removed completely...until they gave him the Lightning Chariot for some reason. I will never defend that change.