Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Schnee117]

But do Sonic fans really want their second, and possibly only other character to be a semi-clone of normal sonic??

I dunno, but Street Fighter fans are happy enough with Ken being an echo/semi clone of Ryu.
No reason Sonic fans can't be happy to have Shadow even if he ends up borrowing a fair bit from Sonic.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Who do you think is the next DLC fighter?

A Gen 8 Pokemon or Travis Touchdown.

 

[Perkilator]

So uh... figured I may as well ask a question, mostly because I don't have anything else to do.

Who do you think is the next DLC fighter?

I wanna say a 3rd party character, assuming they were to be revealed alongside at E3 2020.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I am personally fully for redesigning himself* - but I'd also be certainly for a second Sonic character. Would probably happen in a future Smash 6, but it's worth exploring nonetheless.

I do lean towards Eggman because, well - he's one of the few villains who is mentioned in the same vein as Bowser. Also, he occupy the "mech pilot" niché that's not been explored much at all (outside of perhaps). He does have a mech with arms in Sonic the Fighters, which could be a solid basis (hey, current Sonic pulls some moves from Sonic the Fighters, so...). A lot of his attacks would be rather straightforward, so giving him some mix-up tools in his mobility (whether it's a short flight or something else) would be a plus. Compare Jr., who has Clown Kart Dash as his primary mobility tool.

As for Shadow - it's worth it to explore him as a Semi-clone at least. The Chaos powers alone would help differentiate him from Sonic's more CQC-heavy style. Since he'd have longer effective range than Sonic and be as fast, it's probably important to balance that by either making the Chaos abilities more commital or his disadvantage poorer than Sonic's to encourage a more aggressive style out of Shadow.

Also for Tails and Knuckles, support them too - but I don't have much more to add there aside from what Upauli said in the video.

*There's a major problem with the current Sonic design since it accidentally encourages evasion and thus the playstyle is not fun to play against. The over-use of ball moves in Sonic's moveset does contibute to the problem - especially since it's very difficult to distinguish Side-B and Down-B when playing against him. It was fine in Brawl when he was a last-minute, but that same style's been kept for 4 and Ultimate. Which is a major missed opportunity.

As for other Sonic stages, aside from Casino Night I agree with you that a Colors stage would make a lot of sense. Pumpkin Hill would potentially be amazing... then again City Escape would probably take the "SA2 stage" slot. I get that they wanted to promote Lost World when Windy Hill was included as a stage in Sm4sh, but if they were going for that they could've also gone for the relatively early Frozen Factory too (that could include elements from Casino Night and Ice Cap too). Windy Hill's not the end of the world, but there are certainly better stages.

Interestingly, I think the way Sonic was designed is part of why Shadow is hard to fit as his Echo right now - unless they literally only changed one special to be Chaos control. It's a bit similar to what happened with Dark Samus, where a big part of why the Echo feels off is due to design decisions made on the original character.

Maybe a good start would be changing Sonic's side special for something like Boost and relocating Spin Dash to Down Special (basically fusing Spin Dash and Spin Charge together). Then give Shadow a teleport-like Chaos Control for an up special and Chaos Spear as a side one. Make him slightly slower than Sonic, but also a bit more floaty.

That way, he'd have a more tactical hit-and-run approach, which is both close to what Sonic has now (and thus not alienate his old players) as well as give them gameplay distinctions closer to what the characters are, in spite of being clones.

 

[snowgolem]

Shadow doesn't necessarily need to be a clone, he's got more than enough potential to have a more unique moveset, just look how he plays in Sonic Battle

That being said, I'd personally be cool with any Sonic character, I think Shadow, Eggman, Tails or Knuckles would all be good picks. They've all got more than enough to be unique and are well-known to boot.

If that’s the case, it all comes down to what you like more: the character, or the series. Because obviously there are more unique movesets in the series. So if you did love the series more, than it would make more sense to go for another character you appreciate.

I'd rather have a unique character too (Dr Eggman was brought up earlier, and he'd be my preferred second Sonic character), but as the circumstances behind Chrom and Dark Samus show, sometimes that just isn't an option. And like was said earlier...

Fire Emblem Awakening has one unique fighter in Robin.
Metroid got Ridley and Zero Suit.
In both cases, there was another unique rep before there was an echo fighter.
And now that we have Ken, people are cheering on Chun-Li, and there’s a chance that will never happen. So since people chose to cheer for Ken (at least I think, I wasn’t really paying attention to sf fans pre-ultimate), there’s a chance that this series will forever contain one moveset.

I dunno, but Street Fighter fans are happy enough with Ken being an echo/semi clone of Ryu.
No reason Sonic fans can't be happy to have Shadow even if he ends up borrowing a fair bit from Sonic.

Like said previously, Street Fighter fans are happy but still wanting more characters. Legend of Zelda fans are getting angry because there hasn’t been a new character since Brawl, and even then he wasn’t unique in any way. Come Smash 7 (if we make it that far), SF fans will be getting angry over no new characters, and only one unique moveset. Then again, Street Fighter isn’t first party, but it’s an iconic series so it would still make sense in some form.

 

[osby]

I never understood why people wanted Shadow so bad. No matter how hard you try, his moveset is never going to be more unique than other characters like Robotnik or Tails. Metal Sonic, even. I genuinely think some people just like the emo sonic and convince themselves he’d be the best sonic rep.

Local Smash fan learns that people have different opinions, more at 11.

 

[Deleted member]

I never understood why people wanted Shadow so bad. No matter how hard you try, his moveset is never going to be more unique than other characters like Robotnik or Tails. Metal Sonic, even. I genuinely think some people just like the emo sonic and convince themselves he’d be the best sonic rep.

I dunno about that, Shadow is pretty unique for Sonic standards

"For his Neutral Special, he wields a G U N!"

 

[snowgolem]

Local Smash fan learns that people have different opinions, more at 11.

Everybody understands people have different opinions. Some people don’t agree with them, some people understand them. My first few words are “I never understood”. Acting like I’m just not acknowledging other’s opinions is because you’re trying to diminish my argument that if you’re a sonic fan, you’d prefer a more unique moveset.

I dunno about that, Shadow is pretty unique for Sonic standards

"For his Neutral Special, he wields a G U N!"

I’m gonna be real with you. I know Joker, Bayonetta and Snake use actual guns. But if Shadow gets in, I never see the possibility of him using a gun. I’m not even sure SEGA would allow it.

 

[Garteam]

Nah Sigurd has fans due to being from one of the most beloved FE games, it should be Dante from DmC

Honestly, I still feel like DmC Dante would get a more favourable response than any Fire Emblem character at this point.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Who do you think is the next DLC fighter?

Travis Touchdown. If not now then further down in the Fighters Pass. I'd be generally surprised if he didn't make it this time, considering that Nintendo is choosing the characters.

 

[Peeton]

I do not want Tails in smash. If he gets in, whatever. My life doesn’t revolve around Smash and Nintendo LOL. I just don’t like Tails

 

[SKX31]

Honestly, I know this is an incredibly unpopular opinion, but I think I'd give every other third party franchise a second unique character before I'd give Sonic one. I just don't find the Sonic cast that compelling. Similarly, I don't mind Sonic's moveset all that much and think it fits him pretty well. I like the original Sonic games plenty, so it isn't just a bias against the franchise either. I just find that he's pretty well represented and like I said, the rest of the Sonic cast just isn't terribly exciting to me.

That's a perfectly valid viewpoint, I'm just grumbling due to my own competitive leanings and the fact that many Sonics in Quickplay are a chore to play against. The "Spin Dash / Spin Charge -> Attack or Fake out -> Run back -> Rinse, Repeat" pattern causes a lot of timeouts (which Sudden Death doesn't help, nor the competitive ruleset of "lowest % wins outright").

(Also I'm really tired of hearing the Spinning sound for 7 minutes straight.)

So uh... figured I may as well ask a question, mostly because I don't have anything else to do.

Who do you think is the next DLC fighter?

Probably a major 3rd party, albeit I'm not 100 % sure of that myself.

Out of big 3rd parties, I'm taking a shot in the dark and guessing Dante.

 

[Lamperouge]

I don't want another Sonic character because I know that it won't be Blaze so what even is the point.

 

[Deleted member]

I do not want Tails in smash. If he gets in, whatever. My life doesn’t revolve around Smash and Nintendo LOL. I just don’t like Tails

I've already accepted my most wanteds aren't getting in ever, I'm just here for the ride. I'm content with whatever.

 

[snowgolem]

So uh... figured I may as well ask a question, mostly because I don't have anything else to do.

Who do you think is the next DLC fighter?

I used to think it was going to be Itsuki Aoi, but that seems way less likely at this point.
While my wants did affect this a little, I genuinely am expecting Phoenix Wright. Capcom Cafe is currently having an Ace Attorney theme and, if i recall correctly, games have gotten revealed at Capcom Cafe before. Game gets revealed for Switch, and that leads to Phoenix Wright in Smash.
Just my theory, anyway.

 

[KillerCage]

As a unique little bonus, equipping her costume makes the Mii take extra damage from electric attacks, if you know what I mean.
(I feel so bad for making this joke I'm sorry)

No! Shame on you for making that joke!

Anyway, one of these tracks should be bundled with the Mii Costume.

Good god you're insufferable.

Agreed.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So uh... figured I may as well ask a question, mostly because I don't have anything else to do.

Who do you think is the next DLC fighter?

Call me crazy, but Neku Sakuraba. TWEWY anime coming next year, Tansut hinting a sequel soon... why WOULDN’T they promote it by putting Neku in Smash as well?

also welp NoA just tweeted:

For a limited time, get up to 50% off on The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, DOOM (2016), Wolfenstein 2: The New Colossus and other select @Bethesda games during the QuakeCon Sale for #NintendoSwitch!https://t.co/9CxeDKM0xe pic.twitter.com/0xfaKhJEvf

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) August 4, 2020

Dragonborn confirmed /s

 

[Deleted member]

I don't want another Sonic character because I know that it won't be Blaze so what even is the point.

Blaze was my favorite character in Sonic Rush 10/10
Still need to beat that game at some point... but I digress.

I used to think it was going to be Itsuki Aoi, but that seems way less likely at this point.
While my wants did affect this a little, I genuinely am expecting Phoenix Wright. Capcom Cafe is currently having an Ace Attorney theme and, if i recall correctly, games have gotten revealed at Capcom Cafe before. Game gets revealed for Switch, and that leads to Phoenix Wright in Smash.
Just my theory, anyway.

Honestly how would Phoenix even work? I know he was in one of Capcom vs Marvel games but I remember his moveset in that game being the weirdest **** ever and not really being reflective of him. How exactly do you represent(haha funny joke haha) a lawyer in a fighting game?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I used to think it was going to be Itsuki Aoi, but that seems way less likely at this point.
While my wants did affect this a little, I genuinely am expecting Phoenix Wright. Capcom Cafe is currently having an Ace Attorney theme and, if i recall correctly, games have gotten revealed at Capcom Cafe before. Game gets revealed for Switch, and that leads to Phoenix Wright in Smash.
Just my theory, anyway.

I'd love for you to be right but has there ever been reveals outside of Nintendo related events or E3?

Honestly how would Phoenix even work? I know he was in one of Capcom vs Marvel games but I remember his moveset in that game being the weirdest **** ever and not really being reflective of him. How exactly do you represent(haha funny joke haha) a lawyer in a fighting game?

The fact Sakurai managed to make a Piranha Plant of all things work this shouldn't even be a question. At this point he can make any character work.

 

[SonicMario]

Before we knew how DLC would go down my suggestion for more Sonic stuff was generally an Isabelle-like semiclone Tails that comes with a bonus Shadow echo.

Obviously the November 1st direct and the Mii Costumes that came with Joker screwed any kind of possibility of that. Tails is still my most wanted, but I know that'd have to come next game. Where since the entire Ultimate roster probably isn't coming back, they can try to bolster up things with adding more characters from the 3rd parties that they can retain. But who knows when will that be.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy just to still have had Sonic in Smash since 2008. Still, I guess I'm still driven to see that EGM April Fools issue come into in full. And having Sonic & Tails and Mario & Sonic able to fight as among some of the most iconic duos in gaming.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'd love for you to be right but has there ever been reveals outside of Nintendo related events or E3?

TGA for Joker and... that’s about it. I doubt we’d see something at Gamescom or Tokyo Game Show

then again Shulk for 4 was revealed in a Japan only direct and shadow dropped for NA and EU

 

[Michael the Spikester]

TGS for Joker and... that’s about it. I doubt we’d see something at Gamescom or Tokyo Game Show
O
then again Shulk for 4 was revealed in a Japan only direct and shadow dropped for NA and EU

Forgot about that one apparently.

Even then do note it wasnt originally planned and was last minute.

 

[SharkLord]

So uh... figured I may as well ask a question, mostly because I don't have anything else to do.

Who do you think is the next DLC fighter?

Assuming they were to be revealed at E3, it would either be a highly recognizable third-party or someone very popular in the Smash fanbase. For the recognizable third-party, I dunno; Maybe 2B, maybe Lloyd, perhaps Steve?, Crash could work too...
For the big hardcore fandom request, though, I think Isaac will be the Banjo of this pass. He's pretty much a first-party Banjo; Got an acclaimed first installment and an arguably better but lesser-known sequel, went dormant for a while but was kept afloat by their massive popularity in the fandom, got a divisive third installment (Moreso for Banjo), and a rise in popularity when things were looking up for them. The only difference is that Banjo worked out, while Isaac got snowglobed.
Still, Min Min gives him some hope. Spirits are back on the table, and it shows Nintendo is willing to go back and give series second chances. Sure, there's the Assist Trophy, but ATs weren't mentioned as a reason why Min Min was chosen over Spring Man; Everyone is the protagonist and Yabuki wanted Min Min, so he got Min Min. Isaac is the unambiguous face of Golden Sun, and I doubt we'd get Felix or Matthew before him. If they do, though, that would be a hard no for ATs.

I don't want another Sonic character because I know that it won't be Blaze so what even is the point.

If it's not Blaze or IDW SIlver, then what's the point?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

FRICK I did it again, typed TGS when I meant TGA

 

[snowgolem]

Honestly how would Phoenix even work? I know he was in one of Capcom vs Marvel games but I remember his moveset in that game being the weirdest **** ever and not really being reflective of him. How exactly do you represent(haha funny joke haha) a lawyer in a fighting game?

I know you already mentioned his appearance in Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, but taking inspiration from that, it could be like an actual battle in court and how they play out in the Ace Attorney series. You need to collect evidence. Find one lie in the witness’ testimony and it will start to fall apart. It may sound like gibberish in the context of a fighting game, but think of it like this: A few specific moves are used to collect evidence, “Hold it!” being the most likely, as in the game that’s used to bring up flaws or missing pieces that may lead to new evidence. You get evidence, and it makes you more powerful and stronger against the opponent. You’re able to use it against them. If that makes sense? It would take Phoenix the entire battle to get to his strongest point, but it’s worth it. Playing against Phoenix would mean needing to take him out as quickly as possible. Sorry if that doesn’t make sense. You should probably check out a few other games where he’s featured, like (like you said) Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, Super Smash Bros Crusade, or just the main Ace Attorney games. Getting a feel for the court battles will help the idea of his smash moveset click in your head.

I'd love for you to be right but has there ever been reveals outside of Nintendo related events or E3?

I don’t think they’d reveal Phoenix for smash at capcom cafe. I think they’d reveal the supposed game at capcom cafe and that game would lead to Nintendo including Phoenix in smash. It’s all just speculation, though.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

we need Dante in smash to complete the Bayo and joker family joke

Spoiler

 

[snowgolem]

we need Dante in smash to complete the Bayo and joker family joke

Spoiler

View attachment 281252

that image scares me wtf

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

that image scares me wtf

its your sleep paralysis demon given form

 

[StrangeKitten]

I understand why Shadow is popular. For one, he was a great and interesting character in SA2, which is what fans remember him from the most. For another, while most of us who like Shadow would probably prefer he be completely unique, he also works as an echo of Sonic. So the logic is, he'd be a pretty easy addition to either the base roster of the next game, or maybe even Ultimate on the unlikely chance they decide to add some easy echoes after FP2. And of course, there was the whole Knuckles AT and echoes thing that made people think Shadow would be playable

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It came out at the absolute worst time. Overwatch took it out behind the woodshed.

I think a month after Battleborn's release I found it in the Bargain Bin at Walmart for $15. It had potential, it was fun. If it had come out a year earlier, it probably would have had enough time for a solid fanbase to survive the coming of OW.

Nah nah nah you forget that it eventually went F2P which pissed off people who paid for it and had it get taken out by Paladins, another F2P Overwatch-esque game. The game was so desperate for attention that Gearbox CEO Randy Pitchford hyped up the game by saying people made porn of it

You basically gave the middle finger to Rex supporters by hoping that he'd be done dirty again after some of us started becoming a little hopeful about his chances, or at least that's how I interpreted that message.

But whatever.

How the hell did you even make that connection when I said absolutely nothing derogatory about Rex or his fans but rather said it would be crazy for a Pyra costume to disconfirm the same character twice. Because people were discussing the possibility of a Pyra costume. Can't even say anything neutral about Rex without angering XB2 fans lmao, I have no reason to be polite if I get met with anger either way

 

[-crump-]

Weird unpopular opinion incoming: I think all 3rd party series should stay at 1 rep. Even though we have a ton of them now, the non-Nintendo characters are guest characters, they don’t need to bring a plus one. I’m all for stage cameos, AT appearances, boss fights, and whatnot, but extra characters on the roster feels like special treatment.

The only exception in my mind would be a series like Final Fantasy, where every game takes place in a completely separate world with a totally different cast. But even then, it would weird.

 

[Perkilator]

Weird unpopular opinion incoming: I think all 3rd party series should stay at 1 rep. Even though we have a ton of them now, the non-Nintendo characters are guest characters, they don’t need to bring a plus one. I’m all for stage cameos, AT appearances, boss fights, and whatnot, but extra characters on the roster feels like special treatment.

Even Echoes? I mean, I'm also in agreement that 3rd party series should stay at 1 rep if applicable, but don't you want to at least give Echoes a chance for 3rd parties?

 

[cashregister9]

Honestly for perfect Sonic representation it should take a page from Sonic Heroes and have a character to represent the 3 Sonic playstyles Speed, Flying, Power.
Sonic is Speed, Tails Is Flying and Knuckles is Power each of them could have a Semi-clone Blaze/Shadow, Silver/Rouge, Omega/Zavok Maybe Eggman as well for Ideal representation

 

[snowgolem]

This is the first time I’ve realized that there are no third party games with multiple characters in smash, not including echoes. I could’ve sworn there was at least one series, but no..
Imo though, some series like Mega Man, Sonic and Street Fighter deserve more than 1 unique character.

 

[Deleted member]

Weird unpopular opinion incoming: I think all 3rd party series should stay at 1 rep. Even though we have a ton of them now, the non-Nintendo characters are guest characters, they don’t need to bring a plus one. I’m all for stage cameos, AT appearances, boss fights, and whatnot, but extra characters on the roster feels like special treatment.

The only exception in my mind would be a series like Final Fantasy, where every game takes place in a completely separate world with a totally different cast. But even then, it would weird.

If I have to be honest I kinda agree... but then again like I mentioned earlier I don't really care who gets in, I'm just here for the speculation tbh. I don't really hold an opinion one way or the other.
I honestly want to see more characters like R.O.B or Game&Watch, not necessarily characters themselves but essentially just an amalgamation of older games(less so for ROB)

 

[snowgolem]

If I have to be honest I kinda agree... but then again like I mentioned earlier I don't really care who gets in, I'm just here for the speculation tbh.
I honestly want to see more characters like R.O.B or Game&Watch, not necessarily characters themselves but essentially just an amalgamation of older games(less so for ROB)

I somewhat agree. I really like those characters where Smash has to really make something out of them. But personally, I’d love to see somebody like Tabuu join the roster.

 

[-crump-]

Even Echoes? I mean, I'm also in agreement that 3rd party series should stay at 1 rep if applicable, but don't you want to at least give Echoes a chance for 3rd parties?

I mean I think echoes in general are unnecessary filler, but they're easy enough to ignore so whatever.

When Richter and Ken got announced I did think it was off that Castlevania and Street Fighter were getting more love on the roster than some actual Nintendo series, but nowadays I regularly forget they are playable in the first place so it doesn't bother me.

 

[Idon]

It's a zero sum game- there's only so many resources to go around and only so many characters you could shove into Smash.

WIth that in context, I would rather see Smash explore the breadth of a company's characters and series, appealing to different fans and introducing smash players to new series, rather than just appealing to the same franchise because they "deserve it."

 

[snowgolem]

It's a zero sum game- there's only so many resources to go around and only so many characters you could shove into Smash.

WIth that in context, I would rather see Smash explore the breadth of a company's characters and series, appealing to different fans and introducing smash players to new series, rather than just appealing to the same franchise because they "deserve it."

The moveset can be unique without it being a new wacky series we’ve never seen before. And for the games that are used to define gaming like Sonic, Street Fighter, and Mega Man, they’re going to be given the privilege of a slightly larger representation than other third party franchises. And honestly? They should be. A game like Smash is a large culmination of gaming, but that doesn’t just mean more and more series. It means giving us a good portion of the characters we know, the characters that everyone knows.
Mario has the most characters in the game (depending on how you count the Pokémon). It’s an icon. Why should an icon stick to a single unique character just because it’s third party??

 

[Schnee117]

The moveset can be unique without it being a new wacky series we’ve never seen before. And for the games that are used to define gaming like Sonic, Street Fighter, and Mega Man, they’re going to be given the privilege of a slightly larger representation than other third party franchises. And honestly? They should be. A game like Smash is a large culmination of gaming, but that doesn’t just mean more and more series. It means giving us a good portion of the characters we know, the characters that everyone knows.
Mario has the most characters in the game (depending on how you count the Pokémon). It’s an icon. Why should an icon stick to a single unique character just because it’s third party??

They're not saying franchises should just stick to a single character
They're saying they'd prefer Smash include a variety of third party franchises over just focusing on the third parties that are already present.

Like yeah I'd love to see more from Mega Man and Street Fighter. But I also want Devil May Cry, Ace Attorney and several other Capcom franchises get a shot at the roster. I'd love more from Sonic, but I also want Yakuza, Valkyria, SMT and Monkey Ball.