Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[PLANTMAN]

The Pyra mii is getting released alongside the Dante, 2B, Ryu Hayabusa, Lloyd, and Sora miis for Sigurd's pack, obviously.

Please do happen

 

[Perkilator]

Found this on Twitter if anyone is bored.

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Capcom: Jill Valentine
Bandai Namco: Chosen Undead
Nintendo: Bandana Dee
Unexpected from new company: Monokuma
Expected character from a new company: Crash Bandicoot

 

[Eldrake]

I have mentioned her, yes - and Lina's explicitedly based on the manga / anime Slayers' Lina Inverse (Dota 2's Lina's spells are Light Strike Array, Dragon Slave and Laguna Blade. The references are that deep.) She is one of the figureheads, yes - to the point that she was one of the original poster children Valve chose for Dota 2. Not the most popular pub pick: that honor routinely goes to the Skill-Shot zombie known as Pudge - based on Diablo 2's Butcher. But he'd not be fit for Smash anyhow.

Picked her not just due to her being a favored character - there's another reason. I chose to throw my support behind Ahri due to that too: both these characters would be instantly recognizable to the Japanese audiences. While MOBAs are incredibly niché at best in Japan*, picking major characters that would be recognizable even to a largely unfamiliar audience might help soften any percieved blow. Hoo boy it would not eliminate it - not amongst Japanese Smash fans who wish for a different character I'm aware, but still perhaps soften the blow.

(While Ahri's inspired by a Korean Kumiho, Japanese audiences would instantly see the nine-tailed fox and that she wears a kimono. Spirit Blosson Ahri is especially Japanese: "Her kimono is wrapped left side over right side as in Japan it is believed that only the dead wrap left over right." Not to say that the specific costume would neccessarily make it into Smash, but saying that Riot's not pidgeonholed her.)

As for others: Eldrake has mentioned Juggernaut in the past, and I could honestly see that (he's been stylized as a samurai, so he'd also fit the "instantly recognizable by Japanese" criteria)... my only problem with it is that Juggernaut's Ultimate is Omnislash. As in, directly inspired by Omnislash - only lacking a huge finishing blow. Still, a recent update changed the-spell buffing item Aghanim's Sceptre and its effect on Juggernaut - now the Sceptre grants him a mini-Omnislash (Swiftslash), so if Sakurai (or S-E) in this scenario has a hang-up about using Omnislash again there's Swiftslash.

Outside of Juggernaut there's also Anti-Mage, one of the prototypical farmers. His gimmick of Mana Burning wouldn't work on the Smash cast (but he would hard-counter !), thus I'm leaning on Mana Burn being instead a stacking passive effect. So that his trade mark Ultimate Mana Void could work. In Dota (2), Mana Void essentially deals Damage per Mana Missing. So what happens when an enemy hero with a huge but now empty mana meter gets hit by it?

Yes, this beautiful bull**** is AoE too. In Smash it'd be best to cap Mana Void damage (and capping any potential Mana Burn stacks) since Smash's not a teambased game.

Anti-Mage also recently got a persona who'd fit perfectly as an alt costume.

As for figureheads, there's also Invoker and his ten spells. He's essentially one of Dota 2's icons, and for good reasons. In terms of Smash, his moveset potential is great. He can call down a meteor, blast an enemy with a sun ray, summon magma elementals, apply a debuff that makes you freeze whenever someone or something hits you, make himself or someone else hit faster and harder, conjure a wall of ice, and fire off a tornado. I'd say that if Dota 2 was confirmed to get a character ARMS-style, Invoker would probably be one of the most prominent choices just for that moveset potential alone.

And there's the orc-esque Axe, who's a strong competitor for official mascot status, having received his own comic and at one point the Valve RPG Project was going to feature him as the playable character. The only real issue is that his playstyle doesn't seem to translate well to Smash, since he spins as a counter, taunts you into attacking him (which has a chance to make him spin), applies a debuff that harms you unless you kill an unit, and if your health is sufficiently low he can one hit kill you with Culling Blade. The smash potential is low, but hey, I could be wrong.

 

[M@R!3]

The Pyra mii is getting released alongside the Dante, 2B, Ryu Hayabusa, Lloyd, and Sora miis for Sigurd's pack, obviously.

Even as a joke, that hurts to read.

 

[Deleted member]

This wasn't even meanspirited lmao. Though I suppose Battleborn's too obscure for most people to know it was an ok game and not absolute trash

It came out at the absolute worst time. Overwatch took it out behind the woodshed.

I think a month after Battleborn's release I found it in the Bargain Bin at Walmart for $15. It had potential, it was fun. If it had come out a year earlier, it probably would have had enough time for a solid fanbase to survive the coming of OW.

 

[CureParfait]

Found this on Twitter if anyone is bored.

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Capcom- El Fuerte
Namco- Ninomiya Asuka
Nintendo- Darkrai
Unexpected third party- Londrekia
Expected third party- Monokuma or Reimu

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not only that but most who support elma I believe if that happened they would go crazy thinking she’s very likey to get in at this point. But I wouldn’t mind pyra mii tbh

but what they don’t know is that there’s also fiora they have to go through

Jokes on you, I'm a fan of Elma, Fiora AND Melia

The Pyra mii is getting released alongside the Dante, 2B, Ryu Hayabusa, Lloyd, and Sora miis for Sigurd's pack, obviously.

Nah Sigurd has fans due to being from one of the most beloved FE games, it should be Dante from DmC

 

[DarthEnderX]

I know it's a popular meme among ironic weebs and detractors but Pyra isn't a sword.

The Xenoblade wiki disagrees with you.

 

[dezeray112]

Found this on Twitter if anyone is bored.

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Here is mine.

View attachment 281151

I'll play along.

Capcom: Phoenix Wright
Namco: Sophitia Alexandria
Nintendo: Rex & Pyra
Unexpected new third party: Don't know. Either Kratos or Nathan Drake.
Expected new third party: Ryu Hayabusa

 

[Lamperouge]

This wasn't even meanspirited lmao. Though I suppose Battleborn's too obscure for most people to know it was an ok game and not absolute trash

You basically gave the middle finger to Rex supporters by hoping that he'd be done dirty again after some of us started becoming a little hopeful about his chances, or at least that's how I interpreted that message.

But whatever.

 

[SKX31]

Y'know, Sonic still not having a second character legit shocks me.

Like...I really, really thought at least Shadow would've happened by now. His AT really surprised me back in pre-release. Ah well, at least we have a Mania track in the game and plenty of Sonic Spirits. A shame his second stage is based off of Lost World, though: No offense to that game (I actually like LW, lol), but there are so, so, so many more interesting potential stages that could be used for Sonic.

I want a Pumpkin Hill stage and Sonic Colors stage so bad...

First of all, lemme link a video:

I am personally fully for redesigning himself* - but I'd also be certainly for a second Sonic character. Would probably happen in a future Smash 6, but it's worth exploring nonetheless.

I do lean towards Eggman because, well - he's one of the few villains who is mentioned in the same vein as Bowser. Also, he occupy the "mech pilot" niché that's not been explored much at all (outside of perhaps). He does have a mech with arms in Sonic the Fighters, which could be a solid basis (hey, current Sonic pulls some moves from Sonic the Fighters, so...). A lot of his attacks would be rather straightforward, so giving him some mix-up tools in his mobility (whether it's a short flight or something else) would be a plus. Compare Jr., who has Clown Kart Dash as his primary mobility tool.

As for Shadow - it's worth it to explore him as a Semi-clone at least. The Chaos powers alone would help differentiate him from Sonic's more CQC-heavy style. Since he'd have longer effective range than Sonic and be as fast, it's probably important to balance that by either making the Chaos abilities more commital or his disadvantage poorer than Sonic's to encourage a more aggressive style out of Shadow.

Also for Tails and Knuckles, support them too - but I don't have much more to add there aside from what Upauli said in the video.

*There's a major problem with the current Sonic design since it accidentally encourages evasion and thus the playstyle is not fun to play against. The over-use of ball moves in Sonic's moveset does contibute to the problem - especially since it's very difficult to distinguish Side-B and Down-B when playing against him. It was fine in Brawl when he was a last-minute, but that same style's been kept for 4 and Ultimate. Which is a major missed opportunity.

As for other Sonic stages, aside from Casino Night I agree with you that a Colors stage would make a lot of sense. Pumpkin Hill would potentially be amazing... then again City Escape would probably take the "SA2 stage" slot. I get that they wanted to promote Lost World when Windy Hill was included as a stage in Sm4sh, but if they were going for that they could've also gone for the relatively early Frozen Factory too (that could include elements from Casino Night and Ice Cap too). Windy Hill's not the end of the world, but there are certainly better stages.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So uh

the ToM spirits just got permanently added to the rotation

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

So uh

the ToM spirits just got permanently added to the rotation

the what spirits?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

the what spirits?

Trials of Mana

 

[Lamperouge]

the what spirits?

Trial of Mana.

I'unno what this means tho.

 

[SneakyLink]

Trial of Mana.

I'unno what this means tho.

以前に開催したスピリッツイベントにて限定出現していた『聖剣伝説3 TRIALS of MANA』の3種のスピリッツが、スピリッツボードやショップに出現するようになりました。まだ入手されていない方はぜひチェックしてみてください！#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/byNjUzS9pr

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) August 4, 2020

Basically it means the spirits can be acquired regardless if you participated in the event or not.

They released back in April.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Don’t they usually permanently add event spirits to the rotation before a new reveal?

 

[SNEKeater]

Don’t they usually permanently add event spirits to the rotation before a new reveal?

Finally. It's Frogger time.

 

[Lamperouge]

以前に開催したスピリッツイベントにて限定出現していた『聖剣伝説3 TRIALS of MANA』の3種のスピリッツが、スピリッツボードやショップに出現するようになりました。まだ入手されていない方はぜひチェックしてみてください！#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/byNjUzS9pr

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) August 4, 2020

Basically it means the spirits can be acquired regardless if you participated in the event or not.

They released back in April.

Yeah, I know that.

Don’t they usually permanently add event spirits to the rotation before a new reveal?

This is what I was talking about.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Wants?
Capcom: Jill Valentine
Bandai-Namco: Ms PAC-Man
Nintendo: Tom Nook
Unexpected from new company: Sgt Cortez
Expected from New Company: Crash

Predictions?
Capcom: Dante
Bandai-Namco: Lloyd
Nintendo: A Pokemon Rep
Unexpected from a new company: Reimu
Expected from New Company: Crash

 

[Megadoomer]

Don’t they usually permanently add event spirits to the rotation before a new reveal?

Not necessarily; they permanently added the Animal Crossing and Ring Fit Adventure spirits on July 21st.

I'm surprised they brought back the Trials of Mana spirits so quickly, given that we just got those other spirits back about two weeks ago, and the only spirits that aren't permanently in rotation at this point are the Octopath Traveler spirits.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Don’t they usually permanently add event spirits to the rotation before a new reveal?

Finally, now they can deconfirm Min Min!

Wait a minute...

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Finally. It's Frogger time.

Lily for Frogger alt.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

It usually happens but it's not a guarantee.

Nintendo seems to be trying to hide that they've been affected more by COVID than they're letting on IMO

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Honestly, I know this is an incredibly unpopular opinion, but I think I'd give every other third party franchise a second unique character before I'd give Sonic one. I just don't find the Sonic cast that compelling. Similarly, I don't mind Sonic's moveset all that much and think it fits him pretty well. I like the original Sonic games plenty, so it isn't just a bias against the franchise either. I just find that he's pretty well represented and like I said, the rest of the Sonic cast just isn't terribly exciting to me.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I've always felt that Tails or Eggman should come before Shadow tbh. I'd pick Eggman due to being another villain and a 3rd party one to boot. He's also one of the most iconic video game villains alongside Bowser and Sephiroth and would bring more to the table then Tails would especially being another mech user.

The reason I feel Shadow was looked at more us due to how easy he would be implicated as a echo to Sonic despite also working as a semi-clone or his own moveset.

 

[I.D.]

The Xenoblade wiki disagrees with you.

I can't tell if you're just taking the piss or not but in case you haven't noticed the word "Blade" is written with a capital letter for a reason. Try clicking the article.

Also, turns out Elma is also a sword.

 

[snowgolem]

I never understood why people wanted Shadow so bad. No matter how hard you try, his moveset is never going to be more unique than other characters like Robotnik or Tails. Metal Sonic, even. I genuinely think some people just like the emo sonic and convince themselves he’d be the best sonic rep.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I never understood why people wanted Shadow so bad. No matter how hard you try, his moveset is never going to be more unique than other characters like Robotnik or Tails. Metal Sonic, even. I genuinely think some people just like the emo sonic and convince themselves he’d be the best sonic rep.

On top of his popularity. He would have been easy to make as a echo or semi-clone to Sonic.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I never understood why people wanted Shadow so bad. No matter how hard you try, his moveset is never going to be more unique than other characters like Robotnik or Tails. Metal Sonic, even. I genuinely think some people just like the emo sonic and convince themselves he’d be the best sonic rep.

... and? People want Shadow because, surprise surprise, they like the character. Do they really need more reason than that?

On top of his popularity. He would have been easy to make as a echo or semi-clne to Sonic.

This too. Like Ken and Ryu in the original Street Fighter II, Shadow in Sonic Adventure 2 was essentially Sonic with a different skin. Him being Sonic's Echo Fighter makes sense.

 

[snowgolem]

On top of his popularity. He would have been easy to make as a echo or semi-clone to Sonic.

But do Sonic fans really want their second, and possibly only other character to be a semi-clone of normal sonic??

... and? People want Shadow because, surprise surprise, they like the character. Do they really need more reason than that?

I mean, I’d like to think so. If the character isn’t unique, then you might as well be playing a mod using his assist trophy model.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

huh, NoA hasn't tweeted yet today...

 

[chocolatejr9]

But do Sonic fans really want their second, and possibly only other character to be a semi-clone of normal sonic??

I mean, I’d like to think so. If the character isn’t unique, then you might as well be playing a mod using his assist trophy model.

I mean... it'd probably be better than forcing Classic Sonic into something again...

 

[Opossum]

But do Sonic fans really want their second, and possibly only other character to be a semi-clone of normal sonic??

I mean, I’d like to think so. If the character isn’t unique, then you might as well be playing a mod using his assist trophy model.

This may come as a surprise, but being entirely unique isn't the be all, end all for most people.

 

[snowgolem]

I mean... it'd probably be better than forcing Classic Sonic into something again...

Then... force in Robotnik, Tails, Knuckles, Metal Sonic, Amy, or Cream. Literally anybody.

This may come as a surprise, but being entirely unique isn't the be all, end all for most people.

I don’t think it should determine whether you advocate for the character or not, but I think it should be considered.
I love the Portal series.
GLaDOS is my favorite character.
But there’s no way she could ever work as a character, at least, in Smash...
So I’ll cheer for Chell instead.

 

[Cosmic77]

Honestly, I know this is an incredibly unpopular opinion, but I think I'd give every other third party franchise a second unique character before I'd give Sonic one. I just don't find the Sonic cast that compelling. Similarly, I don't mind Sonic's moveset all that much and think it fits him pretty well. I like the original Sonic games plenty, so it isn't just a bias against the franchise either. I just find that he's pretty well represented and like I said, the rest of the Sonic cast just isn't terribly exciting to me.

Personally, I'd be more supportive of a third Sonic character than I would a second character for about half of the third-parties on the roster.

How unique these Sonic characters would be is a subject for debate, but I don't think anyone can make a serious argument for how Jeanne, Makoto, or Nakoruru are somehow more iconic and recognizable than Tails, Knuckles, or Eggman. That's a huge advantage the Sonic series has over the others. There's about four, maybe five characters outside Sonic himself who have become so well-known that even people who have never played a Sonic game would still be able recognize.

I'm not sure how many of the third-parties in Smash have a decent amount of support for a second character, but out of all twelve of them, I feel like Sonic would have the most potential and the largest appeal.

 

[Blankiturayman]

But do Sonic fans really want their second, and possibly only other character to be a semi-clone of normal sonic??

I mean, I’d like to think so. If the character isn’t unique, then you might as well be playing a mod using his assist trophy model.

Shadow doesn't necessarily need to be a clone, he's got more than enough potential to have a more unique moveset, just look how he plays in Sonic Battle

That being said, I'd personally be cool with any Sonic character, I think Shadow, Eggman, Tails or Knuckles would all be good picks. They've all got more than enough to be unique and are well-known to boot.

 

[Deleted member]

So uh... figured I may as well ask a question, mostly because I don't have anything else to do.

Who do you think is the next DLC fighter?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

huh, NoA hasn't tweeted yet today...

Wodnering if we should have a bot that reposts NOA's tweets here

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I mean, I’d like to think so. If the character isn’t unique, then you might as well be playing a mod using his assist trophy model.

I'd rather have a unique character too (Dr Eggman was brought up earlier, and he'd be my preferred second Sonic character), but as the circumstances behind Chrom and Dark Samus show, sometimes that just isn't an option. And like was said earlier...

Like Ken and Ryu in the original Street Fighter II, Shadow in Sonic Adventure 2 was essentially Sonic with a different skin. Him being Sonic's Echo Fighter makes sense.