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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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chocolatejr9

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Argonaut Games helped Nintendo develop the Super FX chip for Star Fox. Then Argonaut said "okay we helped you out, we have a cool idea for a Yoshi game if you don't mind." Nintendo said "no." Like Philips, Argonaut said "alright then piss off Nintendo we'll make our own game" and found no success.
Moral of the story: always stick with Nintendo.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Argonaut Games helped Nintendo develop the Super FX chip for Star Fox. Then Argonaut said "okay we helped you out, we have a cool idea for a Yoshi game if you don't mind." Nintendo said "no." Like Philips, Argonaut said "alright then piss off Nintendo we'll make our own game" and found no success.
they obviously forgot the blackjack and (occupation not for good boys and girls) :troll:
 

N3ON

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Not even about Hotgirl? Either way, I was just saying. No harm in saying that about that Twitter user, right?
I don't care if she sells adult toys. Trying to boost her sales through the attention she's gained by these "leaks" is skeevy, but I don't have an issue with the sale of sex toys. I'm not from the nineteenth century.

She's just not credible, so people shouldn't be giving her attention. That's the long and the short of it.
 

cmbsfm

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PreMiium is a fan nickname. It also lacks a set definition, which is why there was some debate on whether or not Vault Boy was a PreMiium, since he's not an indie and lacks a song. Dunno who started it, but I'll gladly carry it on.
I think if Sakurai acknowledges the costume, then it’s premium. He mentioned the Vault Boy costume by name. The costume matching the proportions of the character and getting a special trailer help too.
 

CannonStreak

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I don't care if she sells adult toys. Trying to boost her sales through the attention she's gained by these "leaks" is skeevy, but I don't have an issue with the sale of sex toys. I'm not from the nineteenth century.

She's just not credible, so people shouldn't be giving her attention. That's the long and the short of it.
Maybe you don't care about that part, but that is personally a reason why I don't take her seriously.

All she said that was wrong is another reason. I do agree with what you have said. I don't think she deserves the attention.
 

ARandomFruit

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Here’s a little game.
Of your most wanted characters, what is their most likely form of representation in Ultimate? Character, Mii Outfit, Assist Trophy, or Spirit Event?
Here’s mine.
Phoenix Wright- Character
Chell- Spirit Event
Neku Sakuraba- Mii Outfit
Saki Amamiya- already spirit and mii, but he’s been an assist trophy, so I’d say that
Steve- Character
Waluigi- there’s an obvious joke here I’m not going to make
Makoto Yuki- already Mii, probably gonna stay there
Asriel- Spirit event
Reimu - Nothing or Mii costume (She will probably get nothing honestly, but maybe if the planets align she could get a Mii costume)
Agumon - Spirit Event (Probably for Digimon Survive)
Amaterasu - Spirit Event (Because they don't fit as a Mii costume and there's probably gonna be a different Capcom character instead)
Laharl - Nothing (Dunno why they'd give him a spirit event or costume)
Sol Badguy - Fighter (I could see him having a alright chance as a Fighter tbh)
Neku - Spirit or Mii costume (I can see a Mii outfit and if not I can see some sort of Spirit event if Twewy 2 is a thing or not.)
Arle - Spirit or Mii costume (She has a unique enough design too fit a Mii costume and if not I can also see her getting a Spirit event)
Steve - Fighter or Mii costume (I can see them either being a Fighter or Master Chief is the fighter and they might just be a Mii costume)
This is just my opinion I might be either completely wrong or right, I dunno.
 

SharkLord

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I think if Sakurai acknowledges the costume, then it’s premium. He mentioned the Vault Boy costume by name. The costume matching the proportions of the character and getting a special trailer help too.
I go with the definition of full-body costumes that might as well be the fighter themselves, so as of current it includes Sans, Cuphead, and Vault Boy. Extra tracks are optional.
 

StrangeKitten

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if you had to add 5 more pokemon reps who would it be and why?
Toxtricity - Coolest 8th gen rep imo. Moveset revolves around incapacitating the opponent with paralyzing moves, and doing damage-over-time with poison moves, with a powerful guitar move that is a bit risky to use, but can close out stocks early.
Grovyle - Reps both gen 3 and PMD. Glass canon speedster.
Zoroark - Reps gen 5. Lucario echo who trades aura for consistent power at any %, and good, Wolflike hitboxes.
Mimikyu - I love the thought of a ghost in Smash. Could have gone for Gengar, but we have a ton of gen 1 reps already. Lightweight and fast. Would have a long-reaching command grab that never kills but deals 30+%
Scizor - I think gen 2 could use someone other than just Pichu. Scizor would be a heavyweight (thinking 108 would be fitting) and slow, but with high damage output and kill power.
 

7NATOR

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Also Just for Clarification, is it true the Mii Costumes of existing characters (Like Chrom) are just the characters model shrunken down into Mii Fighter Proportions?
 

Rie Sonomura

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So, about PreMiium costumes, which ones do you want to see?
Dante Swordfighter (w/Devil Trigger song, ONLY if Dante isn't playable), Monokuma Brawler (w/ Danganronpa Medley), Ori Brawler (w/Light of Nibel), Gunvolt Gunner (w/ Eternal Blue or some other GV song)
 
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SharkLord

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if you had to add 5 more pokemon reps who would it be and why?
  1. Scizor, as a cool-looking Bug-type and a proper Johto rep
  2. Aggron, to represent Rock-types and Hoenn, but mostly to scrath my itch for a kaiju-esque fighter.
  3. Garchomp, because I want a shark rep. I mean, it's right there in my username.
  4. Golurk, to represent Ghost-types and Unova, as well as being both an aerial heavyweight and a giant robot to Aggron's kaiju.
  5. Appletun, to represent Galar, and to be a big, cutesy doofus that actually has terrifying gradual grinding power.
Finally took the Geno hats off my avatar. Man, does it feel great!

So, about PreMiium costumes, which ones do you want to see?
  • The Knight, with either Sealed Vessel or Enter Hallownest (They're remixed from the same song anyways, so...)
  • Shovel Knight, with Strike the Earth!
  • Geno, with Beware the Forest's Mushrooms
  • The Live-Action Trailer Crash Bandicoot Suit. Keep in mind that they are Crash's stunt double and not Crash himself, so they aren't mutually exclusive.
  • ZUN himself as a Swordfighter, using a mug of beer as a sword.
 
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SKX31

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From one MOBA guy to another - who would be a good Dota 2 rep? You've mentioned a few and I've done a little research, but I want to hear it from someone with more experience. I believe you mentioned Lina a few times, is she simply your most wanted or is she a figurehead for the game?

Also, regarding the AoV thing... wasn't there this weird dispute with Honor of Kings where it was basically Tencent sueing Tencent? And now they're basically going to start pushing Unite in place of AoV, is that it?
I have mentioned her, yes - and Lina's explicitedly based on the manga / anime Slayers' Lina Inverse (Dota 2's Lina's spells are Light Strike Array, Dragon Slave and Laguna Blade. The references are that deep.) She is one of the figureheads, yes - to the point that she was one of the original poster children Valve chose for Dota 2. Not the most popular pub pick: that honor routinely goes to the Skill-Shot zombie known as Pudge - based on Diablo 2's Butcher. But he'd not be fit for Smash anyhow.

Picked her not just due to her being a favored character - there's another reason. I chose to throw my support behind Ahri due to that too: both these characters would be instantly recognizable to the Japanese audiences. While MOBAs are incredibly niché at best in Japan*, picking major characters that would be recognizable even to a largely unfamiliar audience might help soften any percieved blow. Hoo boy it would not eliminate it - not amongst Japanese Smash fans who wish for a different character I'm aware, but still perhaps soften the blow.

(While Ahri's inspired by a Korean Kumiho, Japanese audiences would instantly see the nine-tailed fox and that she wears a kimono. Spirit Blosson Ahri is especially Japanese: "Her kimono is wrapped left side over right side as in Japan it is believed that only the dead wrap left over right." Not to say that the specific costume would neccessarily make it into Smash, but saying that Riot's not pidgeonholed her.)

As for others: Eldrake has mentioned Juggernaut in the past, and I could honestly see that (he's been stylized as a samurai, so he'd also fit the "instantly recognizable by Japanese" criteria)... my only problem with it is that Juggernaut's Ultimate is Omnislash. As in, directly inspired by Omnislash - only lacking a huge finishing blow. Still, a recent update changed the-spell buffing item Aghanim's Sceptre and its effect on Juggernaut - now the Sceptre grants him a mini-Omnislash (Swiftslash), so if Sakurai (or S-E) in this scenario has a hang-up about using Omnislash again there's Swiftslash.

Outside of Juggernaut there's also Anti-Mage, one of the prototypical farmers. His gimmick of Mana Burning wouldn't work on the Smash cast (but he would hard-counter :ulthero:!), thus I'm leaning on Mana Burn being instead a stacking passive effect. So that his trade mark Ultimate Mana Void could work. In Dota (2), Mana Void essentially deals Damage per Mana Missing. So what happens when an enemy hero with a huge but now empty mana meter gets hit by it?



Yes, this beautiful bull**** is AoE too. In Smash it'd be best to cap Mana Void damage (and capping any potential Mana Burn stacks) since Smash's not a teambased game.

As for AoV / HoK: AoV's still very much big in China / SEA, but really no where else (and that's a major reason why the Switch version failed I imagine - the Switch might have a foothold in SEA, but the foothold isn't huge either). But no, not heard of a lawsuit like that - wouldn't put it past Tencent though. AoV / HoK did start out precisely because Riot wasn't ready / didn't want to to develop a mobile LoL back in 2015. Tencent and Riot did sue the makers of Mobile Legends (Shanghai-based Moonton), so are you reffering to that?

I'd also imagine Tencent wants to push Unite primarily in the West / Japan, where AoV doesn't have a strong presence. They held a separate Pokemon showcase just for Unite, after all.

*(The Japanese broadcast of the Korean pro LoL league on Twitch averages around 2.5K viewers, while the Korean and English numbers are obviously much higher.)

So, about PreMiium costumes, which ones do you want to see?
Okay, so:

* Hollow Knight
* (If not playable) Battletoads
* Gunvolt
* Lost Viking(s)
* TF2 Soldier
* Lady (DMC) Gunner perhaps if Dante's playable.
 

Lamperouge

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Dante Swordfighter (w/Devil Trigger song, ONLY if Dante isn't playable), Monokuma Brawler (w/ Danganronpa Medley), Ori Brawler (w/Light of Nibel), Gunvolt Gunner (w/ Eternal Blue or some other GV song)
A Gunvolt Mii costume would be an instabuy for me. Such an underrated indie series.

****, I'd even settle for some spirits.
 

7NATOR

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Dante Swordfighter (w/Devil Trigger song, ONLY if Dante isn't playable), Monokuma Brawler (w/ Danganronpa Medley), Ori Brawler (w/Light of Nibel), Gunvolt Gunner (w/ Eternal Blue or some other GV song)
These Two as well. Though honestly I rather Devils Never Cry, I might be in the minority but Devil Trigger never hyped me up like it did alot of people (I think the song is great nevertheless though
 

SharkLord

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From one MOBA guy to another - who would be a good Dota 2 rep? You've mentioned a few and I've done a little research, but I want to hear it from someone with more experience. I believe you mentioned Lina a few times, is she simply your most wanted or is she a figurehead for the game?

Also, regarding the AoV thing... wasn't there this weird dispute with Honor of Kings where it was basically Tencent sueing Tencent? And now they're basically going to start pushing Unite in place of AoV, is that it?

EDIT: Since you talked about the joys of AoE... a friend of mine who plays both LoL and Dota once said something along the lines of "the difference between LoL stuns and Dota stuns is that LoL stuns make you take damage, Dota stuns make you die". How accurate would you say that statement is? :p

What do you mean Tencent sued Tencent
How the **** do you even manage that
 

Dalek_Kolt

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What do you mean Tencent sued Tencent
How the **** do you even manage that
Wasn't there a story where one branch of Sony sued another?
I guess when you become all-encompassing, the left hand might have some opinions on what the right is doing.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Lol at the idea of Dante being a Mii costume.

I want Phoenix Wright way more but I admit he has a bigger risk in getting Mii'd then Dante does.
 

7NATOR

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Lol at the idea of Dante being a Mii costume.

I want Phoenix Wright way more but I admit he has a bigger risk in getting Mii'd then Dante does.
I say this as Someone that Wants Dante (Especially out of the commonly Speculated characters, but Not as much as Shadow or Goku)

It's definitely Possible for Dante to be Mii Costumed. Dante would fit the Proportions and the Swordfighter moveset does fit. This is not to say Dante is unlikley to be a fighter, it's a likely chance, but they already Mii costumed other big franchises like Assassin's Creed, Fallout, and Tekken.
 

Gribbo

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Lol at the idea of Dante being a Mii costume.

I want Phoenix Wright way more but I admit he has a bigger risk in getting Mii'd then Dante does.
What class would he even be? He's never used a sword or a gun (at least from what I remember) and I just can't imagine him punching and throwing opponents.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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What class would he even be? He's never used a sword or a gun (at least from what I remember) and I just can't imagine him punching and throwing opponents.
Callie's never punched anyone and yet she's a Brawler, so...
 

7NATOR

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What class would he even be? He's never used a sword or a gun (at least from what I remember) and I just can't imagine him punching and throwing opponents.
Ryu Taught Phoenix some Moves when Phoenix was Defending Ryu from False Accusations from yoshi about Tax Fraud
 

Michael the Spikester

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I will say though if Phoenix Wright does get in over Dante I'll be hyped. I wouldn't mind Dante but in terms of Capcom reps I want the former or Amaterasu the most.
 

3BitSaurus

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I have mentioned her, yes - and Lina's explicitedly based on the manga / anime Slayers' Lina Inverse (Dota 2's Lina's spells are Light Strike Array, Dragon Slave and Laguna Blade. The references are that deep.) She is one of the figureheads, yes - to the point that she was one of the original poster children Valve chose for Dota 2. Not the most popular pub pick: that honor routinely goes to the Skill-Shot zombie known as Pudge - based on Diablo 2's Butcher. But he'd not be fit for Smash anyhow.

Picked her not just due to her being a favored character - there's another reason. I chose to throw my support behind Ahri due to that too: both these characters would be instantly recognizable to the Japanese audiences. While MOBAs are incredibly niché at best in Japan*, picking major characters that would be recognizable even to a largely unfamiliar audience might help soften any percieved blow. Hoo boy it would not eliminate it - not amongst Japanese Smash fans who wish for a different character I'm aware, but still perhaps soften the blow.

(While Ahri's inspired by a Korean Kumiho, Japanese audiences would instantly see the nine-tailed fox and that she wears a kimono. Spirit Blosson Ahri is especially Japanese: "Her kimono is wrapped left side over right side as in Japan it is believed that only the dead wrap left over right." Not to say that the specific costume would neccessarily make it into Smash, but saying that Riot's not pidgeonholed her.)

As for others: Eldrake has mentioned Juggernaut in the past, and I could honestly see that (he's been stylized as a samurai, so he'd also fit the "instantly recognizable by Japanese" criteria)... my only problem with it is that Juggernaut's Ultimate is Omnislash. As in, directly inspired by Omnislash - only lacking a huge finishing blow. Still, a recent update changed the-spell buffing item Aghanim's Sceptre and its effect on Juggernaut - now the Sceptre grants him a mini-Omnislash (Swiftslash), so if Sakurai (or S-E) in this scenario has a hang-up about using Omnislash again there's Swiftslash.

Outside of Juggernaut there's also Anti-Mage, one of the prototypical farmers. His gimmick of Mana Burning wouldn't work on the Smash cast (but he would hard-counter :ulthero:!), thus I'm leaning on Mana Burn being instead a stacking passive effect. So that his trade mark Ultimate Mana Void could work. In Dota (2), Mana Void essentially deals Damage per Mana Missing. So what happens when an enemy hero with a huge but now empty mana meter gets hit by it?

Yes, this beautiful bull**** is AoE too. In Smash it'd be best to cap Mana Void damage (and capping any potential Mana Burn stacks) since Smash's not a teambased game.

I'd also imagine Tencent wants to push Unite primarily in the West / Japan, where AoV doesn't have a strong presence. They held a separate Pokemon showcase just for Unite, after all.

*(The Japanese broadcast of the Korean pro LoL league on Twitch averages around 2.5K viewers, while the Korean and English numbers are obviously much higher.)
Aaah, I see. Indeed, even before the Spirit Blossom Event, we already had Star Guardian Ahri - the whole line of skins basically being heavily mahou shoujo-inspired. So indeed, I can see her appealing to different crowds inside Asia itself. Though... you know who else fits that bill?

Jokes aside, Japan does have an official League scene, but... the server is kinda memed as a bot farm for Korea, China and Taiwan. That's mostly due to PC culture being a bit weaker in Japan than elsewhere. In a way, Wild Rift for mobile and possibly the Switch would help a lot with that.

About Dota AoE... oh boy, what the actual ****. I do hear the phrase "everyone is broken so no one is" being thrown around a lot in relation to Dota, but I can only imagine the amount of salt their infamous 4/5 seconds stuns would cause. Especially if they have huge hitboxes like in the gif you posted.

As for AoV / HoK: AoV's still very much big in China / SEA, but really no where else (and that's a major reason why the Switch version failed I imagine - the Switch might have a foothold in SEA, but the foothold isn't huge either). But no, not heard of a lawsuit like that - wouldn't put it past Tencent though. AoV / HoK did start out precisely because Riot wasn't ready / didn't want to to develop a mobile LoL back in 2015. Tencent and Riot did sue the makers of Mobile Legends (Shanghai-based Moonton), so are you reffering to that?
What do you mean Tencent sued Tencent
How the **** do you even manage that
Wasn't there a story where one branch of Sony sued another?
I guess when you become all-encompassing, the left hand might have some opinions on what the right is doing.
Taking a look at a few related pages, I think I actually meshed two different scenarios together in my head:

When Honor of Kings was announced, Riot (already owned by Tencent then) had concerns about... well, HoK ripping off League. Which is basically Tencent ripping off Tencent. Arena of Valor then came to be as their "in-house" alternative for an overseas release because of this, but by then HoK was already popular, so they never changed it inside China.

The lawsuit part came from Mobile Legends - Riot filed a lawsuit against the devs for plagiarism, but lost. Tencent then stepped in, filed another lawsuit and won. The rest is history. I guess I confused both stories in my mind, my bad.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Aaah, I see. Indeed, even before the Spirit Blossom Event, we already had Star Guardian Ahri - the whole line of skins basically being heavily mahou shoujo-inspired. So indeed, I can see her appealing to different crowds inside Asia itself. Though... you know who else fits that bill?

Jokes aside, Japan does have an official League scene, but... the server is kinda memed as a bot farm for Korea, China and Taiwan. That's mostly due to PC culture being a bit weaker in Japan than elsewhere. In a way, Wild Rift for mobile and possibly the Switch would help a lot with that.

About Dota AoE... oh boy, what the actual ****. I do hear the phrase "everyone is broken so no one is" being thrown around a lot in relation to Dota, but I can only imagine the amount of salt their infamous 4/5 seconds stuns would cause. Especially if they have huge hitboxes like in the gif you posted.







Taking a look at a few related pages, I think I actually meshed two different scenarios together in my head:

When Honor of Kings was announced, Riot (already owned by Tencent then) had concerns about... well, HoK ripping off League. Which is basically Tencent ripping off Tencent. Arena of Valor then came to be as their "in-house" alternative for an overseas release because of this, but by then HoK was already popular, so they never changed it inside China.

The lawsuit part came from Mobile Legends - Riot filed a lawsuit against the devs for plagiarism, but lost. Tencent then stepped in, filed another lawsuit and won. The rest is history. I guess I confused both stories in my mind, my bad.
I've played AoV on my phone and now that I've been screwing around in LoL, I can see why - AoV's arenas and modes are EXTREMELY similar, almost the same, as LoL's. literally the only difference are the characters
 

ShrimpScampi

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Lol at the idea of Dante being a Mii costume.

I want Phoenix Wright way more but I admit he has a bigger risk in getting Mii'd then Dante does.
Phoenix would be... weird as a Mii Costume, considering the body portion of the costume would just be a recolored & slightly modified version of the existing Business Suit outfit. The most iconic part of his design is his hair, so the wig could be the main draw of the costume, but the idea of having a DLC costume that's so similar to a base game one feels weird. Not to say it can't happen -- heck, you could argue that Ryo Sakazaki's outfit is similar enough to the base-game Fighter Uniform, but it just feels like it'd be an odd decision. Dante's outfit is at least crazy enough that there wouldn't be that overlap.

Ultimately if they went with a different Capcom fighter like Dante, I could potentially see Phoenix showing up as a Mii costume, but I'm more worried about him being Spirited or just not showing up at all. Best case scenario for me is getting Phoenix as a fighter though.
 

Garteam

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I say this as Someone that Wants Dante (Especially out of the commonly Speculated characters, but Not as much as Shadow or Goku)

It's definitely Possible for Dante to be Mii Costumed. Dante would fit the Proportions and the Swordfighter moveset does fit. This is not to say Dante is unlikley to be a fighter, it's a likely chance, but they already Mii costumed other big franchises like Assassin's Creed, Fallout, and Tekken.
Yeah, between this and Resident Evil getting spirited away, it seems that the "this series is too big to get anything that's not a full fighter" argument is about as accurate as the Power Stone in Mega Man 5.

Smash DLC as a whole really isn't a case where the biggest series get the most content. With the exception of Bayonetta, Persona, Fatal Fury, and Banjo-Kazooie are the smallest third parties we've ever seen get playable characters in the entire series. Only Dragon Quest is really comparable to the massive series we've seen previously.
 

RouffWestie

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Here’s a little game.
Of your most wanted characters, what is their most likely form of representation in Ultimate? Character, Mii Outfit, Assist Trophy, or Spirit Event?
Here’s mine.
Phoenix Wright- Character
Chell- Spirit Event
Neku Sakuraba- Mii Outfit
Saki Amamiya- already spirit and mii, but he’s been an assist trophy, so I’d say that
Steve- Character
Waluigi- there’s an obvious joke here I’m not going to make
Makoto Yuki- already Mii, probably gonna stay there
Asriel- Spirit event
Crystal Chronicles rep – Guaranteed, if anything, to be a Spirit Event; there's 4 playable races, we usually get 4 new spirits, so... yeah I can see that coming later this month.

Sonia – Mii Cosutme. PAD cosmetics – including a hat based on her specifically - were found in a Ninjala datamine months ago. GungHo might throw some into Smash (along with Ninjala costumes, possibly) since they've already established a working relationship with Nintendo.

Ren and Oragon – Maaayyybe a Mii Fighter hat for Oragon, but anything for Monster Strike is very unlikely.

Filia – Nintendo would not have Skullgirls on the table for any content considering the good boys and girls comment. A Spirit Event if anything.

Red – A Spirit Event for Angry Birds could happen.

Adeleine – Absolutely nothing, she isn't necessarily welcome around our dear director.

Lloyd – Returning as a Mii costume.

Ms. Pac-Man – The version they were legally able to use is already a stage cameo.

The REAL Ms. Pac-Man – Copyright Hell.
 

Teeb147

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Crystal Chronicles rep – Guaranteed, if anything, to be a Spirit Event; there's 4 playable races, we usually get 4 new spirits, so... yeah I can see that coming later this month.

Sonia – Mii Cosutme. PAD cosmetics – including a hat based on her specifically - were found in a Ninjala datamine months ago. GungHo might throw some into Smash (along with Ninjala costumes, possibly) since they've already established a working relationship with Nintendo.

Ren and Oragon – Maaayyybe a Mii Fighter hat for Oragon, but anything for Monster Strike is very unlikely.

Filia – Nintendo would not have Skullgirls on the table for any content considering the good boys and girls comment. A Spirit Event if anything.

Red – A Spirit Event for Angry Birds could happen.

Adeleine – Absolutely nothing, she isn't necessarily welcome around our dear director.

Lloyd – Returning as a Mii costume.

Ms. Pac-Man – The version they were legally able to use is already a stage cameo.

The REAL Ms. Pac-Man – Copyright Hell.
I love crystal chronicles. Even just seeing spirits would be cool. There's so many popular SE reps, it's hard to see a rep as a fighter i guess.
 
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