Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[7NATOR]

Hopefully I did not miss the Sonic Discussion

I can't resist when Shadow gets mentioned in Particular

Anyway, Shadow is Cool and that's why alot of people want him. While there are some hat may have wanted him as easy echo, He wouldn't have blown up as much in Popularity id that's the main reason he's requested. The character is cool, and the Abilities are Cool

In fact, Unpopular Opinion, but Shadow would be more unique than Tails and Knuckles, and Potentially Eggman. Eggman might have a hard time working out in terms of what mech to choose.

But in terms of Tails and Knuckles vs Shadow, Shadow Chaos Control can be used to differante himself more from the rest of the cast, Not just Sonic. He'd bring more unique mechanics than Tails and Knuckles in my honest opinion in the Transition to Smash.

 

[Calamitas]

I do not want Tails in smash. If he gets in, whatever. My life doesn’t revolve around Smash and Nintendo LOL. I just don’t like Tails

Jon from GameXplain, is that you? Are we going to have the "Tales has no legacy" argument again?

Sorry, had to.

So uh... figured I may as well ask a question, mostly because I don't have anything else to do.

Who do you think is the next DLC fighter?

Me.

 

[Dark Bagel]

This means Rex gets to be compared to Battleborn by taking an L multiple times when thought it'd finally get back up. What a ****ing world

Well, the name Alani DOES have an L in it...

 

[snowgolem]

They're not saying franchises should just stick to a single character
They're saying they'd prefer Smash include a variety of third party franchises over just focusing on the third parties that are already present.

Like yeah I'd love to see more from Mega Man and Street Fighter. But I also want Devil May Cry, Ace Attorney and several other Capcom franchises get a shot at the roster. I'd love more from Sonic, but I also want Yakuza, Valkyria, SMT and Monkey Ball.

I agree entirely. I’d prefer numerous Capcom characters over another Mega Man character. But I’m not going to act like Mega Man doesn’t deserve another character just because it’s a third party series. An icon is an icon.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Currently predicting a Direct happening on the 6th, 12th, or 13th. Mini or regular, not sure, I could see either happening.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I agree entirely. I’d prefer numerous Capcom characters over another Mega Man character. But I’m not going to act like Mega Man doesn’t deserve another character just because it’s a third party series. An icon is an icon.

I don't think anyone's arguing against more characters from pre-existing franchises at all here though but that we can bring more games together and the idea of a community where all these different fanbases can coexist together is just Neat. Though preferences would tell me I'd need FF7 to get some ****ing respect in Smash

 

[Wunderwaft]

Currently predicting a Direct happening on the 6th, 12th, or 13th. Mini or regular, not sure, I could see either happening.

I'm predicting we'll get a direct in August

I can't lose unless Nintendo pulls the rug under my feet. Which is more likely to happen than not.

 

[cashregister9]

Currently predicting a Direct happening on the 6th, 12th, or 13th. Mini or regular, not sure, I could see either happening.

A mini direct on the 17th seems like a possibility as well

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

So do you guys think android 21 has a chance in smash? She my be from Dragon Ball but she is not in the manga OR anime, she is in Dragonball Fighterz only, making her a game character and she is in Nintendo and she has a damn good moveset.

 

[Deleted member]

Currently predicting a Direct happening on the 6th, 12th, or 13th. Mini or regular, not sure, I could see either happening.

I'm thinking one this month for sure tbh. We literally know nothing about any notable second party games(or anything noteworthy really), and this month seems like a good time to news drop whatever the people over at Nintendo gots cooking.

 

[snowgolem]

I don't think anyone's arguing against more characters from pre-existing franchises at all here though but that we can bring more games together and the idea of a community where all these different fanbases can coexist together is just Neat. Though preferences would tell me I'd need FF7 to get some ****ing respect in Smash

Of course we can add more series to the game. But it’s not required like some people like to think. People just seem to forget a character can be fun without being something brand new. That’s my only issue.

So do you guys think android 21 has a chance in smash? She my be from Dragon Ball but she is not in the manga OR anime, she is in Dragonball Fighterz only, making her a game character and she is in Nintendo and she has a damn good moveset.View attachment 281273

No chance. Sorry.


To change the discussion, do you guys think Aaronitmar’s theory on Tracer being planned for the first Fighter’s Pass has any merit?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm personally thinking September tbh.

If another mini then maybe this month.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So do you guys think android 21 has a chance in smash? She my be from Dragon Ball but she is not in the manga OR anime, she is in Dragonball Fighterz only, making her a game character and she is in Nintendo and she has a damn good moveset.View attachment 281273

It'd technically be a grey area but she's still from Dragon Ball which is the issue. That being said she'd work well and her gimmick'd be interesting to see implemented as it's different enough from Kirby

 

[SKX31]

we need Dante in smash to complete the Bayo and joker family joke

Bonus points if Dante wins a SSBU EVO (Just like Bayo and Joker have won EVO tournaments).

So do you guys think android 21 has a chance in smash? She my be from Dragon Ball but she is not in the manga OR anime, she is in Dragonball Fighterz only, making her a game character and she is in Nintendo and she has a damn good moveset.View attachment 281273

Eeeeeeh? Maaaaybe?

Forgive me if I'm sounding too rash or anything like that, but her chances depend very much on where Sakurai and co. draws the line between "3rd party" and "4th party"*. There's a strong chance Sakurai might view 21 as "skirting the line too closely" or "very much related to a non-video game property, thus effectively a non-video game character".

I'm not writing her off completely in case Sakurai / Nintendo does lean towards her being a video game character.

One could argue that Geralt's chances also depend on very similar factors - albeit 21's and Geralt's situations are quite different from each other, so they're not 100 % comparable with each other.

*(to use informal shorthands - doubt Sakurai himself uses the term, but it's shorter to type out and gets the point across)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So do you guys think android 21 has a chance in smash? She my be from Dragon Ball but she is not in the manga OR anime, she is in Dragonball Fighterz only, making her a game character and she is in Nintendo and she has a damn good moveset.View attachment 281273

While she did debut in a game she's still a character that's part of the Dragon Ball manga and anime's shared multiverse.
So she might count when taken by the letter but she's in the same Grey Area that Kyle Kataran, Hatsune Miku and Clippy are.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Of course we can add more series to the game. But it’s not required like some people like to think. People just seem to forget a character can be fun without being something brand new. That’s my only issue.

No chance. Sorry.


To change the discussion, do you guys think Aaronitmar’s theory on Tracer being planned for the first Fighter’s Pass has any merit?

Depends. Is it another theory trying to imply that Byleth was meant for Pass 2 even though it's pretty obvious that wasn't the case?

 

[snowgolem]

Depends. Is it another theory trying to imply that Byleth was meant for Pass 2 even though it's pretty obvious that wasn't the case?

He did mention it in the video, but said in the comments that he thought he spent too much time on that in the video and thinks it wasn’t worth that much thought.

 

[cashregister9]

To change the discussion, do you guys think Aaronitmar’s theory on Tracer being planned for the first Fighter’s Pass has any merit?

Is this the same theory that Tracer was removed from fighters pass 1 due to the controversy? because if it is that theory makes absolutely no sense

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Of course we can add more series to the game. But it’s not required like some people like to think. People just seem to forget a character can be fun without being something brand new. That’s my only issue.

No chance. Sorry.


To change the discussion, do you guys think Aaronitmar’s theory on Tracer being planned for the first Fighter’s Pass has any merit?

I don't think that's the case.
I'm of the mind that there was always going to be Nintendo character for at least one slot, for pricing reasons. The pass is priced so there's a one character discount compared to buying them all separate and 3rd parties need their cut of the sales. Knowing Activision's legendary greed (Look at the mess they made of Destiny 2), I don't think they'd have taken the hit.

 

[MooMew64]

Currently predicting a Direct happening on the 6th, 12th, or 13th. Mini or regular, not sure, I could see either happening.

Still firmly in the "September Sakurai Presents and Nintendo randomly tweets about Mario stuff this month" camp myself.

Anything outside of that'll probably be a Partner Showcase.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

We really doing the whole "Isabelle's trailer was a last minute replacement for Isaac's, due to the earthquake" schtick again?

 

[MooMew64]

We really doing the whole "Isabelle's trailer was a last minute replacement for Isaac's, due to the earthquake" schtick again?

Wait, are people still tryin' to say Min Min was a last minute swap like they did with Byleth?

'Cause if so...

Bruh

 

[snowgolem]

Wait, are people still tryin' to say Min Min was a last minute swap like they did with Byleth?

'Cause if so...

View attachment 281280

Bruh

No. Go watch the video.
Nobody is claiming anything. This is literally just speculation.

 

[Opossum]

I agree entirely. I’d prefer numerous Capcom characters over another Mega Man character. But I’m not going to act like Mega Man doesn’t deserve another character just because it’s a third party series. An icon is an icon.

I just wanted to point this out.

Please, don't get me wrong. I adore Mega Man. I legitimately hope he stays in Smash forever, and I'd be hyped to see additional Mega Man characters hypothetically be added.

But in today's day and age, I don't think we can really call Mega Man "an icon" or "among gaming's biggest legends." He's an icon of his age, yes, but not one in general. At least, not anymore. It's hard to ignore the elephant in the room that is the series's sales numbers.

Mega Man 11 came out in October 2018 on all major platforms. It took until a full year later for the game to reach one million units sold. As of this past June, it has only sold 1.2 million. And again, this is for a game that was meant as a big return for an iconic character, and a game that was multiplatform, and a game that didn't even have a full sixty dollar price tag.

Look at other iconic revivals. Tomb Raider (2013), the long awaited return of Lara Croft, beat Mega Man 11's lifetime sales in less than two days, and as of 2017, sold 11 million copies. The Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy sold over 2.5 million in the first three months, and that was while being a PlayStation exclusive. After the exclusivity ended, the sales skyrocketed further to over 10 million by February 2019.

If we look beyond other revivals and just look at recent Capcom games, Street Fighter V has sold 4.5 million despite fighting games being a much more niche genre than platformers. Devil May Cry V sold 3.5 million as of March of this year. Monster Hunter World? It sold 15.5 million copies. The remakes of Resident Evil 2 and 3 sold 6.6 million and 2.5 million, respectively.

Even games in series or genres that some people on this site call niche did significantly better. Nier: Automata sold 4.5 million copies. Persona 5 sold 3.2 million copies prior to Royal, and post-Royal, that went up to 4.6 million. Fire Emblem: Three Houses, despite having literally just celebrated its first anniversary last week, has sold about 3 million copies.

And then, again, there's Mega Man. Despite Mega Man 11 being his big revival, a return to form for classic Mega Man...with only 1.2 million copies sold after a year and a half, despite being multiplatform and not being full price, despite the frequent sales.

Mega Man is a series with a massive legacy. But the truth of the matter is that icons can and do fade over time. And this, to me, is kind of proof that Mega Man's time in the sun is fading, as sad as it makes me. He doesn't have the pull these days that he once did, and because of that, I struggle to still call him an icon. He absolutely was one, but these days? I'd say he's considerably more niche.

Just my two cents. I think you're overstating just how much pull Mega Man still has in the general gaming landscape. I wish it weren't the case, but...the numbers don't lie.

 

[StrangeKitten]

So do you guys think android 21 has a chance in smash? She my be from Dragon Ball but she is not in the manga OR anime, she is in Dragonball Fighterz only, making her a game character and she is in Nintendo and she has a damn good moveset.View attachment 281273

I don't think she'd happen. She's still a part of Dragon Ball, which is manga/anime at its core. It would thus be weird to add her, because you'd have to add a stage and music, which would be from the Dragon Ball series. I suppose you could only go with stuff that originated in Fighterz, but that's still part of the Dragon Ball franchise. I think her awkward position here means she's not happening. Better to hold out hope for Crono

 

[Sari]

To change the discussion, do you guys think Aaronitmar’s theory on Tracer being planned for the first Fighter’s Pass has any merit?

No, not at all.

Nintendo is literally working with Tencent (a really shady Chinese company) to get Switches in China. We also have multiple Konami characters despite all of the horrible things they've done. I seriously doubt Nintendo cared about the Blizzard controversy to the point where they'd scrap an entire deal with Blizzard and force Sakurai to start from scratch.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Also, doesn't Nintendo do sketchy stuff themselves like profiting from Chinese labor camps to help manufacture Switches or whatever?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No, not at all.

Nintendo is literally working with Tencent (a really shady Chinese company) to get Switches in China. We also have multiple Konami characters despite all of the horrible things they've done. I seriously doubt Nintendo cared about the Blizzard controversy to the point where they'd scrap an entire deal with Blizzard and force Sakurai to start from scratch.

Not to mention Nintendo's still very much profiting off of China's ongoing genocide of muslims yet people who pretend that the controversy was the deal breaker for them seem to be happy playing their Nintendo games and anxiously wait for more Nintendo games in the future

 

[Lamperouge]

We really doing the whole "Isabelle's trailer was a last minute replacement for Isaac's, due to the earthquake" schtick again?

Poor Isaac fan base is probably never going to shake off this stigma.

 

[snowgolem]

I just wanted to point this out.

Please, don't get me wrong. I adore Mega Man. I legitimately hope he stays in Smash forever, and I'd be hyped to see additional Mega Man characters hypothetically be added.

But in today's day and age, I don't think we can really call Mega Man "an icon" or "among gaming's biggest legends." He's an icon of his age, yes, but not one in general. At least, not anymore. It's hard to ignore the elephant in the room that is the series's sales numbers.

Mega Man 11 came out in October 2018 on all major platforms. It took until a full year later for the game to reach one million units sold. As of this past June, it has only sold 1.2 million. And again, this is for a game that was meant as a big return for an iconic character, and a game that was multiplatform, and a game that didn't even have a full sixty dollar price tag.

Look at other iconic revivals. Tomb Raider (2013), the long awaited return of Lara Croft, beat Mega Man 11's lifetime sales in less than two days, and as of 2017, sold 11 million copies. The Crash Bandicoot N. Same Trilogy sold over 2.5 million in the first three months, and that was while being a PlayStation exclusive. After the exclusivity ended, the sales skyrocketed further to over 10 million by February 2019.

If we look beyond other revivals and just look at recent Capcom games, Street Fighter V has sold 4.5 million despite fighting games being a much more niche genre than platformers. Devil May Cry V sold 3.5 million as of March of this year. Monster Hunter World? It sold 15.5 million copies. The remakes of Resident Evil 2 and 3 sold 6.6 million and 2.5 million, respectively.

Even games in series or genres that some people on this site call niche did significantly better. Nier: Automata sold 4.5 million copies. Persona 5 sold 3.2 million copies prior to Royal, and post-Royal, that went up to 4.6 million. Fire Emblem: Three Houses, despite having literally just celebrated its first anniversary last week, has sold about 3 million copies.

And then, again, there's Mega Man. Despite Mega Man 11 being his big revival, a return to form for classic Mega Man...with only 1.2 million copies sold after a year and a half, despite being multiplatform and not being full price, despite the frequent sales.

Mega Man is a series with a massive legacy. But the truth of the matter is that icons can and do fade over time. And this, to me, is kind of proof that Mega Man's time in the sun is fading, as sad as it makes me. He doesn't have the pull these days that he once did, and because of that, I struggle to still call him and icon. He absolutely was one, but these days? I'd say he's considerable more niche.

Just my two cents. I think you're overstating just how much pull Mega Man still has in the general gaming landscape. I wish it weren't the case, but...the numbers don't lie.

Fair enough. It honestly depends on how you view an icon, but I’m sure we can agree he’s still a legend upon gaming and recognizable enough to be spoken in the same light.
Also, that’s really sad, man. I’m a youngun here and even I grew up with some Mega Man games.

 

[MooMew64]

No. Go watch the video.
Nobody is claiming anything. This is literally just speculation.

Ah, I get the gist now after reading a bit more.

Just to give my initial impressions before watching the video: No, I don't think OW was planned for FP1. There isn't much pointing towards it, and with how long it takes to develop a character, I have a hard time believing they just stopped work on Tracer completely and then managed to just whip up a replacement in only like, two or so months.

 

[snowgolem]

Ah, I get the gist now after reading a bit more.

Just to give my initial impressions before watching the video: No, I don't think OW was planned for FP1. There isn't much pointing towards it, and with how long it takes to develop a character, I have a hard time believing they just stopped work on Tracer completely and then managed to just whip up a replacement in only like, two or so months.

Fair enough. The only evidence he has to prove that Tracer was planned for FP1 is “I trust this one source”. But I do think they may have been able to complete the character in that time. If it were someone like Rex or Phoenix Wright, then absolutely not. But Byleth may have been possible in that time.
Although we do have to consider that they needed to create 2 3D models, so maybe not.

Edit: nintendo literally just posted something overwatch on their yt lol

 

[StrangeKitten]

Zero, Dr. Wily, and perhaps Protoman would be welcome additions to the cast.

While Aaronitmar's theory is interesting, I don't think it's true in the slightest. The timing lined up well to add Byleth, and then Nintendo probably wanted ARMS in to help promote the IP. Perhaps Sakurai also wanted to revisit ARMS and make a playable fighter this go-around. I think it's unlikely that Tracer will get in, but not impossible now that the Switch has an Overwatch port. They might have considered her for FP2, though there are probably a good 20+ characters more likely than her.

 

[Speed Weed]

Poor Isaac fan base is probably never going to shake off this stigma.

isaac fan here, can confirm it's annoying as all hell

 

[Arcanir]

To change the discussion, do you guys think Aaronitmar’s theory on Tracer being planned for the first Fighter’s Pass has any merit?

I'm just shutting this down right now.

• The Blizzard controversy happened in October last year, two months before Byleth's intended reveal (if Imran is correct) and three months before their actual reveal. That leaves at best three months to change out the characters when development of one is shown to be about a year.
• Sakurai already said he got to play an early build of Three Houses for Byleth, which makes no sense if the character was intended for a later date.
• Even ignoring that, Nintendo went back to promoting Overwatch on the Switch not too long after, which renders the point of them trying to distance themselves from Blizzard moot.

This theory is complete crap and only works on lack of knowledge of development and ignoring Sakurai's own words.

 

[snowgolem]

I'm just shutting this down right now.

• The Blizzard controversy happened in October last year, two months before Byleth's intended reveal (if Imran is correct) and three months before their actual reveal. That leaves at best three months to change out the characters when development of one is shown to be about a year.
• Sakurai already said he got to play an early build of Three Houses for Byleth, which makes no sense if the character was intended for a later date.
• Even ignoring that, Nintendo went back to promoting Overwatch on the Switch not too long after, which renders the point of them trying to distance themselves from Blizzard moot.

This theory is complete crap and only works on lack of knowledge of development and ignoring Sakurai's own words.

During Byleth’s livestream, Sakurai said that it was being recorded in November 2019. Sooo... one month.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Okay so I'm watching the video and it's pretty much "Byleth was underwhelming compared to the rest of the pass and feels rushed mrrrrgggrrrr"

Into the trash it goes

 

[SKX31]

No, not at all.

Nintendo is literally working with Tencent (a really shady Chinese company) to get Switches in China. We also have multiple Konami characters despite all of the horrible things they've done. I seriously doubt Nintendo cared about the Blizzard controversy to the point where they'd scrap an entire deal with Blizzard and force Sakurai to start from scratch.

A lot of companies have skeletons in their closet. (Microsoft has had ties to the American government - and not exactly the cleanest - since at least 2007. Although those connections are not as tight or as problematic as say Tencent's with the Chinese gov - they're still there though.).

That said, there is a major addendum I want to make re: Tencent. They're a megacorp* - WeChat, Tencent's Skype / all-encompassing app and a main reason why Tencent became a megacorp to begin with, became so popular it effectively became China's ID system (and thus a main reason behind the shadiness). The app is coincidentally also a major reason why Nintendo partnered with Tencent - Tencent's got a really widespread ad network throughout China thanks to WeChat and its other apps.

While Tencent and the Chinese government are not the closest of friends - there's actually quite a bit of mistrust between the two (see the Verge article) - they are still too close for comfort.

*(Tencent's about as big as Facebook, by the by.)

Also, doesn't Nintendo do sketchy stuff themselves like profiting from Chinese labor camps to help manufacture Switches or whatever?

Yes. While Nintendo's far from alone (Sony and Microsoft were also named) the point still stands.

To change subjects:

Okay so I'm watching the video and it's pretty much "Byleth was underwhelming compared to the rest of the pass and feels rushed mrrrrgggrrrr"

Yeah, that sounds like someone who really wanted to believe in a certain character (probably too much).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly I don't even understand why Aaronitmar's being considered credible, in my eyes he's always been a clickbaiter who sensationalizes controversies like "Nintendo CENSORED Smash?" With the G&W feather on the thumbnail

 

[StrangeKitten]

They do work on multiple fighters at a time, so I could see the timing lining up if Byleth was decently close to completion.

But still, no. I don't think they'd completely scrap a character over Blizzard's idiocy.