Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[PeridotGX]

I don't really think Doomguy will be that much of a popular request going forward.

Honestly, I feel like most of the support for him was based on the hype of Bethesda supporting a Nintendo console for once. But of course now we know that's coming to an end with the recent Microsoft acquisition. Going by what Phil Spencer's said, Doom Eternal will probably be the series' last hurrah on Nintendo...if that even comes out at this point.

Geno's support originally came from a fan song, Rayman, Rhythm Heaven, Chrom, and Steve from fake/partially incorrect leaks, and Banjo and Shantae from their creators/owners begging for support. The way it starts doesn't really reflect how it goes.

 

[I.D.]

I just realized that "SNK might have paid for Terry to be in Smash" is a really strange argument too when trying to justify why certain characters are not on the table. Doesn't that mean any developer out there could get their character by offering Nintendo a tidy sum?

 

[Perkilator]

I mean they probably could've gotten away with Alm as a Roy echo. They have a simmilar fighting style, the most difficult part would be mirroring the animations so Alm uses his left hand.

I thought of a more unique moveset for Alm based mostly on how he fights in Gaiden:

Smash Moveset: Alm (3ε)

docs.google.com

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Well, we do have Choose Your Legends which is an official popularity poll to see which characters receive new special alts.

These are the results of this year's voting:

[Results]
These top voted Heroes from the Choose Your Legends: Round 4 event will appear in-game with CYL edition outfits! #FEHeroes
Men's Division
1st: Dimitri [Three Houses]
2nd: Claude [Three Houses]
Women's Division
1st: Edelgard [Three Houses]
2nd: Lysithea [Three Houses] pic.twitter.com/wNLSMqaknr

— Fire Emblem Heroes (@FE_Heroes_EN) February 2, 2020

From what we can take of this, yes, male Byleth is popular, but female moreso.

After the first Choose Your Legends poll, voters knew that the prizes were new alts. That heavily skews the results toward female characters.

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 surpasses two million copies sold

Xenoblade Chronicles 2, which originally released in December 2017, is confirmed to have sold over two million copies. It currently sits at a total of 2.05 million units worldwide as of June 2020. 160,000 copies were sold in the last few months. The last official number we had was 1.92 million...

nintendoeverything.com

Xenoblade 2 has now sold more than 2 million copies. Rex just might get into Smash 6 if he doesn't get into Vol. 2.

Please no.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Geno's support originally came from a fan song, Rayman, Rhythm Heaven, Chrom, and Steve from fake/partially incorrect leaks, and Banjo and Shantae from their creators/owners begging for support. The way it starts doesn't really reflect how it goes.

were always an example of the ultimate pipe-dream want back during the pre-Smash 4 time period. Also, Phil Spencer didn’t beg for them. All he said was that he’d be fine with them appearing in the next Smash Brothers DLC.

 

[SharkLord]

As much as some people hate to hear it, Xenoblade X ended on a cliffhanger that would seemingly set the stage for a direct sequel as opposed to a rotating cast like the “mainline” Xenoblade games. If that’s the case Elma would still have a shot since she’d appear in X Part 2 as well

Yeah, but that hinges on when XCX2 releases and if there isn't a massive shakeup. It's hard to use XCX2 to gauge her chances when everything surrounding it is an unknown variable.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I know this is a Fire Emblem thread now but here's a question about newcomers for a change:

If you could choose which companies the next four characters will come from, which ones would you choose? You can't decide the characters themselves and all of them have to be a different company (that isn't Nintendo or Microsoft).

My picks would be:
SEGA = Because I'm a sucker for their games and very few of their characters would disappoint me.
Falcom = Honestly, I would be hyped for one of their games getting in seeing how I've heard nothing but good things about them.
Square-Enix = This one is riskier but there are so many interesting choices that at least it would be a nice surprise as long as it's not G***
Capcom = Everyone in this thread and their mothers seem to want another Capcom character. I'm one of them.

Capcom - Capcom has the best library of IPs in gaming IMO, yes even better than Nintendo. I’d be fine with almost any Capcom character that would get in.

Square Enix - Square also has an amazing library of IPs & I think whoever they’d pick would be cool. I’m honestly even down for another FF7 character like Tifa or Sephiroth.

Activision - Activision isn’t the best company but they do own some of the biggest series in gaming history. Crash, Overwatch, Spyro, World of Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo & even Call of Duty could all bring cool characters to the table.

EA - If I can’t get Master Chief or DoomGuy under these rules, I’m going to try my hardest to get a space marine (Commander Shepard) in damnit! Plants vs Zombies would be cool too.

Controversial opinion:

TBH I can't help but feel like characters like Krystal, as well as others like Ashley, Bandana Dee, Lyn, etc just don't feel as lucrative anymore in an era where Smash keeps getting big name third party guests.

Like those characters kinda made sense during like, Brawl which was entirely focused on Nintendo (outside of Metal Gear and Sonic, of course), but nowadays, is there really much of a point to go after fourth stringer Star Fox or Kirby characters when there's bigger fish to fry now, like Crash, Master Chief, Monster Hunter, just to name a few?

I kinda feel the same way with Geno.

I’m not too big on the likes of BanDee or Krystal. But Nintendo would choose them because they’re free choices that would get positive fan reception. They don’t have to deal with contracts from other companies or have to pay for characters. They give the Smash team the okay & then let them do their thing.

This is the way I see it:

From Mega popular series across the globe:

From a Mega popular series in one region:


Legacy retro franchises down a few rungs:


From a smaller series with a recent breakout hit:


Honorary Nintendo series:


I guess these characters would fit in with the above (at the top of my head):

1. Chris/Jill/Leon, Heihachi, Monster Hunter (though this is a bit more recent)
2. Arle, Master Chief, Doomguy, Lara Croft, Scorpion...most western characters, really.
3. Ryu Hayabusa, Arthur
4. 2B
5. Fulgore, Yuri Kozukata, Geno (I guess)

I think Crash Bandicoot kinda blurs the line between the first two categories. As in, his original games were really popular in Japan during the PS1 era but he's kinda petered out there since then. But the fact that he was popular in Japan at all (unlike say, Rayman) is still pretty noteworthy.

I like the shout-out to Fulgore. I’ve found out that Nintendo once owned the rights to both Banjo & Killer Instinct but seemingly none of the other Rare IPs. This makes me think that Fulgore could be a potential dark horse pick for the next Smash... if MS & Nintendo keep being Buddy-Buddy. It’ll be the homecoming of their fighting game series that preceded Smash.

As for Crash, I imagine he has some nostalgia amongst ‘90s Japanese kids. They just weren’t interested in the remakes & the revival hasn’t appealed to modern Japanese kids. I could see Crash in Smash being very well received by Japanese 90s kids.

 

[KillerCage]

Please no.

Please yes.

 

[PeridotGX]

were always an example of the ultimate pipe-dream want back during the pre-Smash 4 time period. Also, Phil Spencer didn’t beg for them. All he said was that he’d be fine with them appearing in the next Smash Brothers DLC.

begging wasn't the best term for it, I'll admit.

 

[cashregister9]

I just realized that "SNK might have paid for Terry to be in Smash" is a really strange argument too when trying to justify why certain characters are not on the table. Doesn't that mean any developer out there could get their character by offering Nintendo a tidy sum?

I've seen a fair few people say that Steve payed his way into smash and even some people saying that Fortnite will pay its way in. and like if it was that easy it would have happened a lot more.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

begging wasn't the best term for it, I'll admit.

But uh that does beg (ha!) the question

did the Shantae creators exactly beg for her to be in Smash?

 

[I.D.]

But uh that does beg (ha!) the question

did the Shantae creators exactly beg for her to be in Smash?

Depends. If you don't like the character they begged. If you do they asked.
For example, did Kojima ask for Snake or did he beg for him?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

did the Shantae creators exactly beg for her to be in Smash?

They campaigned for it for the previous game, and just before Sakurai said the first pass's characters were locked in. It's how we knew that she was not one of those characters.

I haven't seen anything from them since then (not that I've been looking), so I think she's at least a candidate again.

 

[Thewafflemaker2000]

Anyway now that the election is out of the way, and Nintendo didn’t wanna take attention away from that, think we might see some form of news soon? Not even necessarily about Smash, just in general

I think thats all thier news until spring

 

[Perkilator]

I think thats all thier news until spring

Maybe for major announcements, but even then I think Spring is pushing it a little.

 

[Digital Hazard]

After the first Choose Your Legends poll, voters knew that the prizes were new alts. That heavily skews the results toward female characters.

I don't get what you mean with this. It is a popularity contest after all.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Maybe for major announcements, but even then I think Spring is pushing it a little.

Perhaps he has the same warped perception of seasons as I do where you keep thinking spring starts in January.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't get what you mean with this. It is a popularity contest after all.

I think the point is "People only like women because they're horny". It's not like the female version of an Avatar in a franchise with a primarily female fanbase naturally is more popular due to more fans being able to identify with them than the male counterpart or anything like that

 

[I.D.]

I think the point is "People only like women because they're horny". It's not like the female version of an Avatar in a franchise with a primarily female fanbase naturally is more popular due to more fans being able to identify with them than the male counterpart or anything like that

Judging from the alts I guess women like the beach and swimsuits a lot more than men lmao

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Judging from the alts I guess women like the beach and swimsuits a lot more than men lmao

Well they're not all bathing suits.

...I kind of wonder what the standings would be if a contest was made known to be specifically for the summer beach skins though.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I don't get what you mean with this. It is a popularity contest after all.

Fans tend to want new, official art of a female character over that of a male character.

 

[7NATOR]

This is funny to me as Shadow's current VA played Trump in a movie a few years ago.


Sidenote I'm hyperfixating on Sonic lately and tbh I'm VERY happy we didn't get Shadow, no way would SEGA allow Sakurai to have the actual character filled with love considering how notoriously strict they are with him

I think how Shadow is Mandated and treated kinda fluctuates. He's Kinda himself in Forces and in the Twitter Takedowns, even the Lego Game got aspects of him Correct.

I think the Side Games like Boom and the Racing Spinoffs could probably get away with more. Since Boom is an alternate universe, and the Racing Spinoffs (Like TSR) don't really have a Serious plot going, they probably play up Shadow's edginess for the sake of Competetion and such. Shadow leaving behind Omega and Rouge during the TSR Shorts was kinda bogus, but it is a Competition after all, and Shadow can be Competitive, even in SA2. If he left them behind in a Deadly trap, then we got something going on.

Even then there seems to be a Japanesse and English translation lack of Communications. usually in the Japanesse versions of the Game Shadow actually isn't as "Edgy" as he is in the English Translations

The IDW Comics though, they do do Shadow bogus though, and at the start he actually was written well, but you know how it goes. Also that statement about Team Dark not being Friends I hope is something that doesn't actually stick, since that would undermine Shadow's Entire Character. I hope they were just joking with that

Said it once, I'll say it again: MK's issue isn't really just the violence or whatever, it's just the fact that the series is, and has always been, a complete and total non-factor in Japan, with both the original games being unpopular and the newer games not even being properly localized. And in a series like Smash that's always been very Japan centric (considering that, you know, it's made in Japan by Japanese developers), that's pretty much a big death sentence.

I don't think the violence itself would be the thing keeping MK out of Smash. It's more that the games aren't localized in Japan so it seem extremely unlikely that it would be added for that reason. We know that in the past localization was a sticking point for Sakurai. And not being localized in Japan is likely a much larger deal than not being localized in the West, given that you know, Smash is a Japanese game.

MK not being localized (Currently) in Japan is a Big factor against it, but I wouldn't say it's a Death Sentence. It's Very Big in pretty much every other Region, It was at one time actually sold in Japan as well, and I think the West might get more leeway than Japanesse exclusive Characters

We did get Ridley and Little Mac after all, despite those characters having their popularity mostly concentracted in the West. Of course the situation is different because those 2 are First Party characters, and they were base roster inclusions. I believe though that North America Makes up a MAJORITY of Ultimate's Sales. I believe the sales in Japan make up at Most 1/5 of the Total sales of Ultimate, and that's high Balling it. It's also been this way for awhile as well. I think Europe might also have more sales too.

Of course MK getting a character really depends on NOA and NOE's appeal to the FP2 Selection, Since I don't think NOJ would have MK as one of it's first Option. Sakurai also is a Fighting game fan, so I'm sure he's knowledgeable about MK at least

 

[Digital Hazard]

Fans tend to want new, official art of a female character over that of a male character.

And again, so?

Yes, it's "people are horny", but it is a showing of popularity regardless.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Anyway now that the election is out of the way, and Nintendo didn’t wanna take attention away from that, think we might see some form of news soon? Not even necessarily about Smash, just in general

Wait, what? You think the American election would stand in the way of Smash Bros? Since when is Smash , or even Nintendo concerned with politics? You do know that Nintendo is Japan based right? And America isn't the central of the world as many do believe?

 

[Guynamednelson]

We did get Ridley and Little Mac after all, despite those characters having their popularity mostly concentracted in the West. Of course the situation is different because those 2 are First Party characters, and they were base roster inclusions

And their recent games were still definitely released in Japan.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

I don't see Rex getting into Smash 6, by that point the next Xenoblade will likely start production or be released.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I mean they probably could've gotten away with Alm as a Roy echo. They have a simmilar fighting style, the most difficult part would be mirroring the animations so Alm uses his left hand.

Alm as a Roy Echo, but unlike Roy and Chrom, Alm's Falchion has a tipper like Marth's.

I'd take it!

Also make Celica a Echo to Lucina , but have Roy's Neutral B, Zelda's Din's Fire and Robin's Elfire as Specials.

 

[Cosmic77]

I definitely see a lot more fanservice targeted toward male fans in FE than I do for the females.

Whether that's due to the fans themselves or a bias from the developers is up for debate, but I think it’s pointless trying to pretend that there aren't a noticeable number of fans who're voting for some of these females characters just because they want said characters to wear a cute Santa outfit or a skimpy bathing suit.

In other words, I doubt Camilla got plenty of alts solely because both male and female fans alike loved her for being a fun and relatable character.

 

[SNEKeater]

I guess it goes without saying but SNK didn't paid Nintendo for a character in Smash. That idea is just stupid, no offense.

I mean if money was the reason why SNK got into Smash, we can fairly assume it wasn't a small quantity of money. We're talking about Nintendo and Smash, which is the biggest crossover in gaming. At the same time, it's not like SNK is a massive company like IDK, EA? able to spend a lot of money for that. It's not like they wouldn't be able to pay for that, but... it would be really worth it? Because if you can really get a character in Smash that way (which obviously isn't the case) I doubt it would be cheap, you know.

If money was everything when it comes to Smash, I'm pretty sure the DLC selection would be different. And I would imagine companies like EA or Activision being the first ones interested in paying Nintendo for a character in Smash, and not the likes of SNK.

TL:DR It just doesn't make sense. Nintendo wanted a SNK character for whatever reason and logically, they paid SNK whatever they agreed for adding Terry. Not the other way around lmao.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

In other words, I doubt Camilla got plenty of alts solely because both male and female fans alike loved her for being a fun and relatable character.

What? Who wouldn't love her endearing traits such as:

separation anxiety

and

an unhealthy obsession with her sibling

 

[I.D.]

From my experience in Granblue male players usually favor girls they like and female players favor guys they like. Guess they aren't that different in that regard.

 

[Idon]

While the FEH Choose Your Legends poll does have obviously biased and skewed results, it's not necessarily "I want more sexy women, I'll vote for them" though I don't doubt there are people that have that mindset.

There's a lot of factors that goes into voting beyond pure popularity as in the first poll:

• Anna had a huge surge of popularity due to the fact she didn't have an alternate unit
• Eliwood managed to sneak past overconfident Marth fans who took the halfway scores as final
• People who didn't even care for FEH original characters voted for Veronica due to the alternative being Camilla (a highly controversial character known mostly for her sex appeal) would win (though she did end up winning next year's anyway)
• The most recent case of overwhelming recency bias with FE3H dominating the upper brackets.

So yeah, it's not just popularity, but it's also not just horny people. After all, it doesn't matter how many votes a character has, just that they place in the top 2 of their gendered division. Very few horny people are willing to invest in a week-long voting spree for a few non-sexualized .pngs that will come out 6 months later.

Except Camilla and Plumeria fans apparently.

 

[Digital Hazard]

I think it's just undeniable that most Japanese gacha lean towards a straight male demographic.

FEH isn't an exception.

I definitely see a lot more fanservice targeted toward male fans in FE than I do for the females.

Whether that's due to the fans themselves or a bias from the developers is up for debate, but I think it’s pointless trying to pretend that there aren't a noticeable number of fans who're voting for some of these females characters just because they want said characters to wear a cute Santa outfit or a skimpy bathing suit.

In other words, I doubt Camilla got plenty of alts solely because both male and female fans alike loved her for being a fun and relatable character.

I remember the days before she won one of those were filled with fearmongering.

She's pretty much the "another FE into Smash" equivalent of the FEH fandom itself.

 

[7NATOR]

I do think Sakurai was a Big Factor in Terry (and Perhaps Joker as well) getting included. Just because Nintendo chose the characters, doesn't mean Sakurai has no input

Though I do think Nintendo at least has to have a reason to Approve a Character being in the Fighter Pass. Atlus Persona and SNK Fatal "King of fighters" Fury passed the test as we can see

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Regardless, I’m just happy that Lyn placed first among female characters in the first CYL poll. You can clearly tell how much people loved Blazing Sword with the ranking of Lyn and Hector.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Wait, what? You think the American election would stand in the way of Smash Bros? Since when is Smash , or even Nintendo concerned with politics? You do know that Nintendo is Japan based right? And America isn't the central of the world as many do believe?

It's so stupid that Twitter basically changed functions around like with Quote Retweeting just because of what's happening in the US like it's the whole world. And it was the reason for why Sakurai had trouble posting the Steve reveal.

 

[PSIGuy]

• People who didn't even care for FEH original characters voted for Veronica due to the alternative being Camilla (a highly controversial character known mostly for her sex appeal) would win (though she did end up winning next year's anyway)

Veronica was also an enemy-only unit at the time and people wanted to see her become playable. When she did well in the mid-terms people realized her being playable was actually possible. There was a fair bit of discussion on what they would do because they'd never had a Brave version come out before the regular version. That appeal's not really there now that most OCs get released within a few months of their debut or the end of their story relevance but early on it was much more tantalizing.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't see Rex getting into Smash 6, by that point the next Xenoblade will likely start production or be released.

His popularity could get him in.

 

[SharkLord]

Okay, so now we're talking about, uh... The correlation of female FE characters and their sex appeal?

Someone catch me up to speed, it's a slow day and my brain can't process the arguments from either sides.

On a semi-related topic I think a beast unit would be someone cool to add gameplay-wise after we revamp the current representation. For example, Lethe, seeing as she's the first beast unit you get in Path of Radiance.

Spoiler

 

[Lamperouge]

His popularity could get him in.

Indeed.

Xenoblade 2 continues to be a popular, well liked game and will likely remain that way for years, so Rex would still be a valid choice for the next Smash game.