Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Diddy Kong]

I don't see Rex getting into Smash 6, by that point the next Xenoblade will likely start production or be released.

I could see another character from the original Xenoblade make it in before Rex.

You know the one.

 

[Dinoman96]

Indeed.

Xenoblade 2 continues to be a popular, well liked game and will likely remain that way for years, so Rex would still be a valid choice for the next Smash game.

It just seems rather strange and un-Sakurai like to ignore the latest and newest XB game in favor of a much older one. It'd be like if Lyn got in instead of Robin back in Smash 4 or something.

 

[Idon]

Okay, so now we're talking about, uh... The correlation of female FE characters and their sex appeal?

Someone catch me up to speed, it's a slow day and my brain can't process the arguments from either sides.

On a semi-related topic I think a beast unit would be someone cool to add gameplay-wise after we revamp the current representation. For example, Lethe, seeing as she's the first beast unit you get in Path of Radiance.

Spoiler

Just a discussion revolving around male vs female byleth that turned into a discussion of the innate biases present in a gacha popularity poll in which the victors are granted alternate versions of themselves.

Same ole, same ole.

It just seems rather strange and un-Sakurai like to ignore the latest and newest XB game in favor of a much older one. It'd be like if Lyn got in instead of Robin back in Smash 4 or something.

God, I wish.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Okay, so now we're talking about, uh... The correlation of female FE characters and their sex appeal?

Someone catch me up to speed, it's a slow day and my brain can't process the arguments from either sides.

On a semi-related topic I think a beast unit would be someone cool to add gameplay-wise after we revamp the current representation. For example, Lethe, seeing as she's the first beast unit you get in Path of Radiance.

Spoiler

King Caineghis or bust. Always wanted to play as a huge lion in Smash!

Anyways , I don't think my ideas about Fire Emblem are much appreciated here. Its probably good I wasn't around for the Fire Emblem roster trend a few pages back, because I'd start with keeping everyone in.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I do think Sakurai was a Big Factor in Terry (and Perhaps Joker as well) getting included. Just because Nintendo chose the characters, doesn't mean Sakurai has no input

Though I do think Nintendo at least has to have a reason to Approve a Character being in the Fighter Pass. Atlus Persona and SNK Fatal "King of fighters" Fury passed the test as we can see

This leads to an interesting question and something new we could discuss and speculate. What other characters would benefit of feeling like a big factor by Sakurai?

 

[Dinoman96]

This leads to an interesting question and something new we could discuss and speculate. What other characters would benefit of feeling like a big factor by Sakurai?

It's kinda hard to say because Sakurai loves a lot of games lol

 

[Megadoomer]

This leads to an interesting question and something new we could discuss and speculate. What other characters would benefit of feeling like a big factor by Sakurai?

2B, maybe? While I'm not a fan of the idea that "Sakurai played it, so it is definitely going to get into Smash!", going by his Famitsu article on Nier Automata (and the Nier/Drakengard series as a whole), I could potentially see her getting in through a scenario similar to Joker. He seems like a pretty big fan of the series, and he gets pretty deep into discussing the writing and mechanics of those games.

 

[7NATOR]

This leads to an interesting question and something new we could discuss and speculate. What other characters would benefit of feeling like a big factor by Sakurai?

Yeah as someone else Said, Sakurai loves, or at least Plays alot of games

The thing with Persona 5 and SNK as a whole is that they had an Effect on Smash itself, which Sakurai creates. KOF was a Major reason why Smash exists in the 1st Place, and Smash Ultimate's UI Is Inspired by Persona's UI.

The only things that really come to mind in regards to Motivating Sakurai is The Shoot Em Up Genre getting Sakurai into Games in the First Place, and you can also see this with every game Sakurai makes (where even if SHUMP isn't the Main Genre, there usually is a Shoot Em Up Mini game attached). As such, this could boost the chance of Someone like Reimu, who would debut the Shoot Em Up Genre in the Roster if she was made Playable

Beyond that is Sakurai's Statements on games he's liked like Nier Automata, Halo 2, Half-Life 2, Dark Souls (3 I Believe), Apex Legends (he said he was playing it heavily), ann Xenoblade Chronicles 2, among other games. Minecraft, Undertale, King Of Fighters, etc also got this treatment and look were those Franchises are now in regards to Smash. However this doesn't mean these Franchises will be Placed in Smash though, and doesn't mean Franchises not mentioned won't be in, as Castlevania and I Believe Dragon Quest were not mentioned by Sakurai before they got in

I do think it's interesting that Most of the New 3rd party franchises we got in Ultimate have been mentioned by Sakurai, or shown to have an effect on sakurai before they made it in. Joker, Banjo, Terry, and Steve fit this criteria.

 

[I.D.]

I swear all these "next xenoblade mc that I literally know nothing about will get in over rex anyway" posts are like a giant monkey paw waiting to happen, I look forward to the next Xenoblade MC causing bigger amounts of butthurt, or the rotating cast meme people have convinced themselves of going out of the window, or no proper Xenoblade title being released for the next Smash or what have you

 

[Guynamednelson]

I swear all these "next xenoblade mc that I literally know nothing about will get in over rex anyway" posts are like a giant monkey paw waiting to happen, I look forward to the next Xenoblade MC causing bigger amounts of butthurt, or the rotating cast meme people have convinced themselves of going out of the window, or no proper Xenoblade title being released for the next Smash or what have you

They're actually secretly wanting Rex ASAP. We all know Smash fans can never get anything right, so if you keep posting things like "Elma/XC3 Protagonist is more likely", you're actually making Rex more likely.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Okay, did anything new pop up here? My phone wouldn't let me on this site (something about the time being ahead?), so I started to panic a little...

 

[Perkilator]

Okay, did anything new pop up here? My phone wouldn't let me on this site (something about the time being ahead?), so I started to panic a little...

It was a problem with the whole site. Something about a privacy error for the server.

 

[cashregister9]

The websites security ticket expired, It was renewed and now we are back.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sakurai Pic of the Day.

pic.twitter.com/Gtu5RxXttX

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 8, 2020

 

[RileyXY1]

Indeed.

Xenoblade 2 continues to be a popular, well liked game and will likely remain that way for years, so Rex would still be a valid choice for the next Smash game.

Plus the fact that I can't really see him being an Echo of Shulk.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Sakurai Pic of the Day.

pic.twitter.com/Gtu5RxXttX

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 8, 2020

Palutena and Robin, what are they talking about?

 

[RileyXY1]

It just seems rather strange and un-Sakurai like to ignore the latest and newest XB game in favor of a much older one. It'd be like if Lyn got in instead of Robin back in Smash 4 or something.

The hypothetical new XB protagonist might not be as popular as Rex.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

We all know Smash fans can never get anything right, so if you keep posting things like "Elma/XC3 Protagonist is more likely", you're actually making Rex more likely.

No. It's not contrarian. Things don't happen just because you say they won't.

The hypothetical new XB protagonist might not be as popular as Rex.

Popularity is a non-factor. The newer game will take precedent here.

 

[Ivander]

So yeah, it's not just popularity, but it's also not just horny people. After all, it doesn't matter how many votes a character has, just that they place in the top 2 of their gendered division. Very few horny people are willing to invest in a week-long voting spree for a few non-sexualized .pngs that will come out 6 months later.

Except Camilla and Plumeria fans apparently.

To be fair, in Camilla's case, it wasn't so much horny people compared to trolling people. Like during the voting time, that was when Camilla actually got her 6th alt that ticked off lots of people that there were people that voted Camilla just to tick people off with another alt. Like I don't deny that she has fans who like her character(and by character, I mean her wasted potential regarding her backstory compared to her actual character), but there were definitely people who voted Camilla during CYL3 just to tick people off.

Plumeria might be a case of people taking a chance that she might actually have an interesting character behind the whole lewd dreams thing. Because before Plumeria, Kama from Fate/Grand Order had been around who also had the whole "lewd dream maker" deal, but they also had a legitimately interesting backstory and personality behind all that. If you look into Plumeria's reception nowadays, she's actually been received pretty well so I guess in this case, people took a gamble and that gamble paid off.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Palutena and Robin, what are they talking about?

Judging by the expressions, I think Palutena is making Robin jealous? I don't know, I'm spitballing here.

 

[Cosmic77]

Like I said before, I think a lot of Rex's support stems from people believing he has a good shot of getting in. Happens with every relevant Pokémon and FE character until either a character from those games gets in or a new game comes out.

To be brutally honest, if the next XC protagonist is absolutely hated, and if Sakurai had a big enough window to see how much people hated them, I'd be more inclined to believe XC wasn't getting any new characters than thinking Sakurai would travel all the way back to 2017 and add Rex.

 

[chocolatejr9]

To be fair, in Camilla's case, it wasn't so much horny people compared to trolling people. Like during the voting time, that was when Camilla actually got her 6th alt that ticked off lots of people that there were people that voted Camilla just to tick people off with another alt. Like I don't deny that she has fans who like her character(and by character, I mean her wasted potential regarding her backstory compared to her actual character), but there were definitely people who voted Camilla during CYL3 just to tick people off.

Plumeria might be a case of people taking a chance that she might actually have an interesting character behind the whole lewd dreams thing. Because before Plumeria, Kama from Fate/Grand Order had been around who also had the whole "lewd dream maker" deal, but they also had a legitimately interesting backstory and personality behind all that. If you look into Plumeria's reception nowadays, she's actually been received pretty well so I guess in this case, people took a gamble and that gamble paid off.

While I don't know her exact popularity these days (another factor in CYL is "new OC bias"), I can confirm that they gave Plumeria a... surprisingly dark backstory. Not the darkest backstory, mind you, but I didn't expect them to go THAT route.

 

[RileyXY1]

I have no idea who FP8 could be. The only thing that I am 100% sure on is that the character will be released next January.

 

[Guynamednelson]

No. It's not contrarian. Things don't happen just because you say they won't

I'm just joking. There are a couple of things Smash fans have gotten right throughout FP1 and 2. Key word being a couple.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Like I said before, I think a lot of Rex's support stems from people believing he has a good shot of getting in. Happens with every relevant Pokémon and FE character until either a character from those games gets in or a new game comes out.

To be brutally honest, if the next XC protagonist is absolutely hated, and if Sakurai had a big enough window to see how much people hated them, I'd be more inclined to believe XC wasn't getting any new characters than thinking Sakurai would travel all the way back to 2017 and add Rex.

Yeah, unless things change, the next game will not include the following as newcomers:

1. Any 1 shot character from The Legend of Zelda.
2. Any Pokémon prior to Generation 9, 10, or possibly even 11 depending on when the roster locks into place and how much they crank them out.
3. Any character from Fire Emblem: Three Houses, or the games preceding it.
4. Any character from Xenoblade Chronicles or Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

I'm just joking. There are a couple of things Smash fans have gotten right throughout FP1 and 2. Key word being a couple.

Why do I always think comments like that are serious?

 

[RileyXY1]

Like I said before, I think a lot of Rex's support stems from people believing he has a good shot of getting in. Happens with every relevant Pokémon and FE character until either a character from those games gets in or a new game comes out.

To be brutally honest, if the next XC protagonist is absolutely hated, and if Sakurai had a big enough window to see how much people hated them, I'd be more inclined to believe XC wasn't getting any new characters than thinking Sakurai would travel all the way back to 2017 and add Rex.

Rex might not be like that. He might be another Ridley or K. Rool, or something along those lines.

 

[Ivander]

On the subject of Fire Emblem characters, as I saw someone talk about the possibility of more Echo Fighters from Fire Emblem...when you actually think about it, isn't it a bit surprising that they didn't go a bit of the Bowser Jr. route with Marth or Lucina?

Cause out of all the Fire Emblem character movesets, Marth and Lucina's are the most copy-able, with Chrom's being second. But like from Marth and Lucina, you could get some of the other Lords as easy Echos/Alternate costumes, like Seliph, Eirika, Eliwood, Elincia, and some of the other one-handed sword wielders, like some of the later Mercenary characters like Inigo, Severa, etc. And it makes sense cause most of the early Lord characters were made to be very similar to Marth gameplay-wise.
In the case of other Fire Emblem characters:
-Chrom is the 2nd most copy-able as his moveset removes the issue that Roy would've given, which is the fire effect. The fire effect is what also makes Ike hard to copy, as no other Fire Emblem character would be able to do Ike's Eruption aside from maybe Eliwood, due to Durandal being the Blazing Blade.
-In Robin's case, while Mages are very common in Fire Emblem, Robin wields both tomes and a sword, which many Mage characters often do not unless promoted to a class with both. And very often, that class is Dark Knight, which uses a horse. Robin is the most notable exception of being an Infantry unit that uses both Swords and Tome, aside from their children in his game. On the other hand, if they do go that route in a remake, Mark from Fire Emblem 7 could be a potential costume/Echo fighter for Robin.
-Corrin would not be able to be copied, due to the nature of their dragon transformation. While there are dragon characters, none of them can transform just their limbs and whatnot compared to Corrin.
-Byleth probably can't be copied, as his moveset was created in tune to represent Three Houses. Like it's not easy to imagine other characters having the same moveset as Byleth.

 

[osby]

Sakurai Pic of the Day.

pic.twitter.com/Gtu5RxXttX

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 8, 2020

: "It's time to start the battle!"
: "But first - let's take a selfie."

 

[GoodGrief741]

It just seems rather strange and un-Sakurai like to ignore the latest and newest XB game in favor of a much older one. It'd be like if Lyn got in instead of Robin back in Smash 4 or something.

You say that like it would be a bad thing.

 

[Flik]

On the subject of Fire Emblem characters, as I saw someone talk about the possibility of more Echo Fighters from Fire Emblem...when you actually think about it, isn't it a bit surprising that they didn't go a bit of the Bowser Jr. route with Marth or Lucina?

Cause out of all the Fire Emblem character movesets, Marth and Lucina's are the most copy-able, with Chrom's being second. But like from Marth and Lucina, you could get some of the other Lords as easy Echos/Alternate costumes, like Seliph, Eirika, Eliwood, Elincia, and some of the other one-handed sword wielders, like some of the later Mercenary characters like Inigo, Severa, etc. And it makes sense cause most of the early Lord characters were made to be very similar to Marth gameplay-wise.
In the case of other Fire Emblem characters:
-Chrom is the 2nd most copy-able as his moveset removes the issue that Roy would've given, which is the fire effect. The fire effect is what also makes Ike hard to copy, as no other Fire Emblem character would be able to do Ike's Eruption aside from maybe Eliwood, due to Durandal being the Blazing Blade.
-In Robin's case, while Mages are very common in Fire Emblem, Robin wields both tomes and a sword, which many Mage characters often do not unless promoted to a class with both. And very often, that class is Dark Knight, which uses a horse. Robin is the most notable exception of being an Infantry unit that uses both Swords and Tome, aside from their children in his game. On the other hand, if they do go that route in a remake, Mark from Fire Emblem 7 could be a potential costume/Echo fighter for Robin.
-Corrin would not be able to be copied, due to the nature of their dragon transformation. While there are dragon characters, none of them can transform just their limbs and whatnot compared to Corrin.
-Byleth probably can't be copied, as his moveset was created in tune to represent Three Houses. Like it's not easy to imagine other characters having the same moveset as Byleth.

I always liked the idea of Eliwood as an alt for Marth, I think it fits like a glove.
The little I know about Eirika (only played a few chapters of Sacred Stones) makes me think she would fit as an alt for Lucina (unless she changes too much later in her game).
Characters Alts for Chrom may not work because of his final smash which, as far as I know, it's his own thing.
And thank you for not suggesting Celica as an alt or echo of robin, it always makes me cringe

 

[SharkLord]

I always liked the idea of Eliwood as an alt for Marth, I think it fits like a glove.
The little I know about Eirika (only played a few chapters of Sacred Stones) makes me think she would fit as an alt for Lucina (unless she changes too much later in her game).
Characters Alts for Chrom may not work because of his final smash which, as far as I know, it's his own thing.
And thank you for not suggesting Celica as an alt or echo of robin, it always makes me cringe

If Celica needs to be an Echo or at least a semiclone, it'd be over Marth (Or Lucina, I suppose, but that's basically Marth), seeing as she uses Marth's attack string in Warriors.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Are there any prominent Fire Emblem characters that are just straight up brawlers? No swords, axes, whips, lances, etc. Just fists n' power?

 

[Idon]

On the subject of Fire Emblem characters, as I saw someone talk about the possibility of more Echo Fighters from Fire Emblem...when you actually think about it, isn't it a bit surprising that they didn't go a bit of the Bowser Jr. route with Marth or Lucina?

Cause out of all the Fire Emblem character movesets, Marth and Lucina's are the most copy-able, with Chrom's being second. But like from Marth and Lucina, you could get some of the other Lords as easy Echos/Alternate costumes, like Seliph, Eirika, Eliwood, Elincia, and some of the other one-handed sword wielders, like some of the later Mercenary characters like Inigo, Severa, etc. And it makes sense cause most of the early Lord characters were made to be very similar to Marth gameplay-wise.
In the case of other Fire Emblem characters:
-Chrom is the 2nd most copy-able as his moveset removes the issue that Roy would've given, which is the fire effect. The fire effect is what also makes Ike hard to copy, as no other Fire Emblem character would be able to do Ike's Eruption aside from maybe Eliwood, due to Durandal being the Blazing Blade.
-In Robin's case, while Mages are very common in Fire Emblem, Robin wields both tomes and a sword, which many Mage characters often do not unless promoted to a class with both. And very often, that class is Dark Knight, which uses a horse. Robin is the most notable exception of being an Infantry unit that uses both Swords and Tome, aside from their children in his game. On the other hand, if they do go that route in a remake, Mark from Fire Emblem 7 could be a potential costume/Echo fighter for Robin.
-Corrin would not be able to be copied, due to the nature of their dragon transformation. While there are dragon characters, none of them can transform just their limbs and whatnot compared to Corrin.
-Byleth probably can't be copied, as his moveset was created in tune to represent Three Houses. Like it's not easy to imagine other characters having the same moveset as Byleth.

They're not worth the effort I'd presume.

They're more defined as characters than the Koopalings so you'd probably need to animate more taunts, you'd need to get new voice actors for each of them and record all the lines, you'd have to model and render brand new characters and weapons. All this for niche characters, most of which are decades old and/or haven't made it out of Japan. Honestly, no character should fight the same, they're from completely different universes so it doesn't make sense they'd fight like another FE character, but Smash doesn't very much care about that.

Are there any prominent Fire Emblem characters that are just straight up brawlers? No swords, axes, whips, lances, etc. Just fists n' power?

Prominent? No.
FE3H did include a fisticuffs weapon which revolves around martial arts and such with a few specialists in that area. Byleth, coincidentally, excels in that department, however it's not exactly represented in his moveset.

 

[SharkLord]

Are there any prominent Fire Emblem characters that are just straight up brawlers? No swords, axes, whips, lances, etc. Just fists n' power?

I don't think any of them are solely brawlers because of the way the overhauled weapon system works, but there are a couple units in Three Houses that specialize in it. The first one who comes to mind is Caspar, and Balthus has Relic gauntlets as well.

 

[Idon]

If Celica needs to be an Echo or at least a semiclone, it'd be over Marth (Or Lucina, I suppose, but that's basically Marth), seeing as she uses Marth's attack string in Warriors.

I wouldn't adhere to Fire Emblem Warriors as a way to categorize fighters considering those characters are often shoved into roles that don't quite suit them, ala Tharja over Robin, Owain over Ryoma, and, you guessed it, Celica over Marth, among others.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Beyond that is Sakurai's Statements on games he's liked like Nier Automata, Halo 2, Half-Life 2, Dark Souls (3 I Believe), Apex Legends (he said he was playing it heavily), ann Xenoblade Chronicles 2, among other games. Minecraft, Undertale, King Of Fighters, etc also got this treatment and look were those Franchises are now in regards to Smash. However this doesn't mean these Franchises will be Placed in Smash though, and doesn't mean Franchises not mentioned won't be in, as Castlevania and I Believe Dragon Quest were not mentioned by Sakurai before they got in

He did mention Castlevania in his Nomura interview. He said: "a lot of us were directly impacted by the dawn of the PC and the home gaming console. For me personally, it was the year 1986, when games like The Legend of Zelda and Castlevania were released, and I experienced physically interactive games. They had a big impact on me. I still agree that obviously, game that he never mentionned can get in, like I don't think he talked about Banjo before (except about Banjo being considered for Melee, but he never mentionned playing Banjo game), but to be fair considering the amount of game the guy play he probably did play Banjo without mentionning it.

 

[Flik]

If Celica needs to be an Echo or at least a semiclone, it'd be over Marth (Or Lucina, I suppose, but that's basically Marth), seeing as she uses Marth's attack string in Warriors.

Agreed, if I could make Celica only using modified versions of other characters' move, my idea have always been: Marth/Lucina's normals, Hero's fire ball (modified) for B, Pikachu/Pichu's Thunder (except it lands in front of her) for Side B, Pit/Dark Pit's Up B and... Can't think of anything for Down B lol

I wouldn't adhere to Fire Emblem Warriors as a way to categorize fighters considering those characters are often shoved into roles that don't quite suit them, ala Tharja over Robin, Owain over Ryoma, and, you guessed it, Celica over Marth, among others.

Celica has a "classy" fighting style like Marth, so that actually fits (the magic is missing, but that's beside the point). Still a hundred times more fiting than what happened to Lucina in Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

In my opinion, every character based off of another character should be able to at least show off their unique qualities while also not being saddled with qualities that don't make sense on them. In that regard:

• Hero works because as avatars, their unique qualities are their games. A band of heroes showing off what their series has to offer is probably the best executed conglomerate character.
• Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings do not work because all of them were pretty heavily genericized in order to make it work. The Koopalings don't even have the correct proportions, and they're probably the only characters that I would say look objectively bad.
• The Belmonts work because their unique qualities were able to come together to form something cohesive, and it doesn't not make sense for them to have each other's abilities. Given the extra character slot, I do think it should have been pushed a bit further, but I wouldn't say the execution was bad.
• Peach and Daisy don't work because more needed to be done. Daisy got her personality, but she also got Peach things like floating and Toads even though they don't really have anything to do with her.

 

[Koopaul]

I have a philosophy on alts and echoes. A character should be an alt when it can work and doesn't conflict with the moves animations of the other character. A character should be an echo when an alt can't work.

In the case of the Belmonts, they absolutley could be alts because neither one of them does something that would seem out of place for the other to do. It can work, so they should have been alts.

Alph, on the other hand, should not have been an alt simply because of the S.S. Dolphin. Alph pilots a completely different ship so it does not make sense for him to be an alt of Olimar. He should have been an echo.

But this is my personal philosophy on alts and echoes.

 

[Gitaroo]

Are there any prominent Fire Emblem characters that are just straight up brawlers? No swords, axes, whips, lances, etc. Just fists n' power?

Does turning into a tiger and mauling people count