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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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cashregister9

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I know this is a Fire Emblem thread now but here's a question about newcomers for a change:

If you could choose which companies the next four characters will come from, which ones would you choose? You can't decide the characters themselves and all of them have to be a different company (that isn't Nintendo or Microsoft).

My picks would be:
SEGA = Because I'm a sucker for their games and very few of their characters would disappoint me.
Falcom = Honestly, I would be hyped for one of their games getting in seeing how I've heard nothing but good things about them.
Square-Enix = This one is riskier but there are so many interesting choices that at least it would be a nice surprise as long as it's not G***
Capcom = Everyone in this thread and their mothers seem to want another Capcom character. I'm one of them.
Falcom = I just really like Trails, and they are one of the oldest game companies in Japan and are quite prolific because of that
SEGA = SEGA has a rich library of characters that we have only scratched the surface of representation
Activision = Another one of the oldest game companies not yet represented, they own some Iconic as hell franchises
Capcom = Another one with a rich history and diverse cast of characters.
 

Koopaul

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"how to make Birdo a Yoshi echo 101"

  • replace egg lay with a reskinned version of K.Rool's blunderbuss.
  • change grab to look like she's visually inhaling air, and grabs them normally (there's probably a character who can have that animation ripped from)
  • re-skin up b to be fired out of mouth, functionally identical
there we go.
"Re-skin"? Okay I think it's clear you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to how models, rigging animations, or hitboxes work lol!
 

Diddy Kong

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When you used to be one of the most highly requested characters for Brawl and Smash 4 but then your franchise abandons you in favor of endless reboots and hollow gimmicks (which pretty much kills it), and your support base for Smash drops as a result, despite the fact that you could be the first entirely unique character for your franchise since Fox.

Krystal Not in Smash. Ayano Cries. | Krystal Archive
Hey, I'd also love Krystal. Bring all the Rare babies. Dixie, Conker, even Yooka-Laylee. But... I just don't see it happening.
Even if this wack theory was true, I sense some heavy anti-Claude bias here...
I like Claude a lot, but there's just one move to work with. Neutral B. Yeah there's N Air but that's taken from Pit. Which I always thought was a weird move.

In general I like both Dimitri and Claude more than Edelgard. Way more! But when we check Byleth's Smash moves, I only see it sensible to create Dimitri and Edelgard out of them.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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Hey, I'd also love Krystal. Bring all the Rare babies. Dixie, Conker, even Yooka-Laylee. But... I just don't see it happening.
I know her actually making a major appearance in a brand new Star Fox game sometime this generation would significantly increase her chances for the next Smash, or at the very least reinvigorate her fans again the same way Age of Calamity did for Impa, but yeah, Star Fox Zero's gimmicks at all costs and let's reboot Star Fox 64 again philosophy bombed so hard in sales we'll be lucky to see another game at all for the next decade, let alone one with Krystal in it. Knowing Nintendo they probably just blamed the Star Fox series as a whole instead of their own ineptitude, the way the they did with Chibi-Robo and killed the franchise entirely.
 
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Diddy Kong

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I know her actually making a major appearance in a brand new Star Fox game sometime this generation would significantly increase her chances for the next Smash, or at the very least reinvigorate her fans again the same way Age of Calamity did for Impa, but yeah, Star Fox Zero's gimmicks at all costs and let's reboot Star Fox 64 again philosophy bombed so hard in sales we'll be lucky to see another game at all for the next decade, let alone one with Krystal in it.
The same way Age of Calamity did for Impa? Impa was never absent for so long. She was always the most logical addition for a Zelda newcomer. Age of Calamity just gave us more hope because she's gonna be playable yet again, and makes up for us not having a workable Impa in BotW, by it being her younger version.

Krystal hasn't appeared since Star Fox Assault.

Impa was the first ally of Link in the biggest Zelda cameo game ever, and even recently became a DLC playable character in Cadence of Hyrule

Bad comparison.
 

Dinoman96

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Controversial opinion:

TBH I can't help but feel like characters like Krystal, as well as others like Ashley, Bandana Dee, Lyn, etc just don't feel as lucrative anymore in an era where Smash keeps getting big name third party guests.

Like those characters kinda made sense during like, Brawl which was entirely focused on Nintendo (outside of Metal Gear and Sonic, of course), but nowadays, is there really much of a point to go after fourth stringer Star Fox or Kirby characters when there's bigger fish to fry now, like Crash, Master Chief, Monster Hunter, just to name a few?

I kinda feel the same way with Geno.
 
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Guynamednelson

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TBH I can't help but feel like characters like Krystal, as well as others like Ashley, Bandana Dee, Lyn, etc just don't feel as lucrative anymore in an era where Smash keeps getting big name third party guests.

Like those characters kinda made sense during like, Brawl which was entirely focused on Nintendo (outside of Metal Gear and Sonic, of course), but nowadays, is there really much of a point to go after fourth stringer Star Fox or Kirby characters when there's bigger fish to fry now, like Crash, Master Chief, Monster Hunter, just to name a few?

I kinda feel the same way with Geno.
Why go for Terry when Scorpion would make more people GET OVER HERE? Why have this pass start with Min Min over...anything else?
or how about you care about actually playing the game instead of hoping your 5 year old cousin recognizes the next character
 
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Mushroomguy12

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The same way Age of Calamity did for Impa? Impa was never absent for so long. She was always the most logical addition for a Zelda newcomer. Age of Calamity just gave us more hope because she's gonna be playable yet again, and makes up for us not having a workable Impa in BotW, by it being her younger version.

Krystal hasn't appeared since Star Fox Assault.

Impa was the first ally of Link in the biggest Zelda cameo game ever, and even recently became a DLC playable character in Cadence of Hyrule

Bad comparison.
I wasn't talking about chances or importance within the franchise, I was moreso referring to pure fan demand. She is the most logical Zelda newcomer but it seems that a large portion of the Smash fanbase were underplaying her chances prior to Age of Calamity because they thought that they would never take an incarnation from a spin off and she was only in old lady form in BOTW. She was plenty attacked for the "muh relevancy" reason by fans of the other Zelda characters and Age of Calamity shut those ideas up.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Controversial opinion:

TBH I can't help but feel like characters like Krystal, as well as others like Ashley, Bandana Dee, Lyn, etc just don't feel as lucrative anymore in an era where Smash keeps getting big name third party guests.

Like those characters kinda made sense during like, Brawl which was entirely focused on Nintendo (outside of Metal Gear and Sonic, of course), but nowadays, is there really much of a point to go after fourth stringer Star Fox or Kirby characters when there's bigger fish to fry now, like Crash, Master Chief, Monster Hunter, just to name a few?

I kinda feel the same way with Geno.


I really don't think so honestly . My most wanted are all first party, Isaac, Dixie Kong and Impa. All would bring their own mechanics , and are much needed additions.

Remember how crazy the crowds got for K.Rool and Ridley?
 

Ivander

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You know, we always say F!Byleth is the more popular version, but is that by actual popularity or fanart?

I mean, having the most fanart doesn't always mean more popular. F!Robin definitely gets more fanart, but M!Robin is often the more popular pick in votes. It's like with Mass Effect's Commander Shepard. Female Shepard gets more attention in fanart and whatnot, but Male Shepard was the one picked the most by players.

It'd be very interesting to see which version of Byleth was picked the most in Three Houses.
 

Mushroomguy12

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Controversial opinion:

TBH I can't help but feel like characters like Krystal, as well as others like Ashley, Bandana Dee, Lyn, etc just don't feel as lucrative anymore in an era where Smash keeps getting big name third party guests.

Like those characters kinda made sense during like, Brawl which was entirely focused on Nintendo (outside of Metal Gear and Sonic, of course), but nowadays, is there really much of a point to go after fourth stringer Star Fox or Kirby characters when there's bigger fish to fry now, like Crash, Master Chief, Monster Hunter, just to name a few?

I kinda feel the same way with Geno.
We were talking about Krystal in the context of the next Smash game's base roster, not the DLC, to specifically avoid people saying stuff like this (because people will say this everytime a moderately popular 1st Party is brought up in this thread), but OK go on now.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Controversial opinion:

TBH I can't help but feel like characters like Krystal, as well as others like Ashley, Bandana Dee, Lyn, etc just don't feel as lucrative anymore in an era where Smash keeps getting big name third party guests.

Like those characters kinda made sense during like, Brawl which was entirely focused on Nintendo (outside of Metal Gear and Sonic, of course), but nowadays, is there really much of a point to go after fourth stringer Star Fox or Kirby characters when there's bigger fish to fry now, like Crash, Master Chief, Monster Hunter, just to name a few?

I kinda feel the same way with Geno.
I kinda feel the same way with Geno.
Boi

What have you done

you spoke his name, now you’ve invoked their wrath!
 

Diddy Kong

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You know, we always say F!Byleth is the more popular version, but is that by actual popularity or fanart?

I mean, having the most fanart doesn't always mean more popular. F!Robin definitely gets more fanart, but M!Robin is often the more popular pick in votes. It's like with Mass Effect's Commander Shepard. Female Shepard gets more attention in fanart and whatnot, but Male Shepard was the one picked the most by players.

It'd be very interesting to see which version of Byleth was picked the most in Three Houses.
F!Byleth is more useful in Three Houses because of her access to the Pegasus Knight class.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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"Re-skin"? Okay I think it's clear you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to how models, rigging animations, or hitboxes work lol!
Oh hush, you knew what he meant.

I like Claude a lot, but there's just one move to work with. Neutral B. Yeah there's N Air but that's taken from Pit. Which I always thought was a weird move.
Believe it or not, Byleth's Neutral Aerial is actually unique. Pit's Neutral Aerial uses a few hitboxes that turn off and on, but Byleth's Neutral Aerial has center hitbox, and a bunch of other hitboxes that rotate around it like a hand crank or something. It's the only one that does this to my knowledge.
 
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Dinoman96

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Why go for Terry when Scorpion would make more people GET OVER HERE? Why have this pass start with Min Min over...anything else?
MK was never gonna happen considering again, the latest games don't even come out in Japan, lol. You could at least said Tekken/Heihachi instead.

I do think Terry is somewhat of the "odd duck" of the third party guests in Smash (I view Banjo and Bayonetta as honorary Nintendo characters, so I count them differently). I think it may of just been a case of Nintendo knowing Sakurai really liked SNK games so they went ahead and basically gave him a freebie in the form of Terry, or maybe SNK flat out paid them to include Terry in, I don't know. Nonetheless, SNK is still this big historical thing in Japanese gaming, and Terry's pack is designed to encompass its whole history. So again, it's not really the equivalent of adding a fourth banana character from an already repped series.



I really don't think so honestly . My most wanted are all first party, Isaac, Dixie Kong and Impa. All would bring their own mechanics , and are much needed additions.

Remember how crazy the crowds got for K.Rool and Ridley?
I do think Dixie should be in because (in addition to DK being a big and long running franchise), unlike Dee/Impa/etc she was at least the main character in one (or two games if counting DKL3) game. Even then I can see why a lot of people think her inclusion wouldn't be very exciting.

I also honestly think K. Rool and Ridley were kinda the last of the big hype first party characters. I just don't see the likes of Impa or Krystal or Bandana Dee or even Dixie causing the same reaction. Granted, I guess one could make a case for Waluigi because of memes, but that's about it, I feel.
 
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Schnee117

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You know, we always say F!Byleth is the more popular version, but is that by actual popularity or fanart?

I mean, having the most fanart doesn't always mean more popular. F!Robin definitely gets more fanart, but M!Robin is often the more popular pick in votes. It's like with Mass Effect's Commander Shepard. Female Shepard gets more attention in fanart and whatnot, but Male Shepard was the one picked the most by players.

It'd be very interesting to see which version of Byleth was picked the most in Three Houses.
Games with gender options for the protagonist generally trend towards the male choice because the average gamer is a guy and people typically go for who represents them better.
 

Digital Hazard

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You know, we always say F!Byleth is the more popular version, but is that by actual popularity or fanart?

I mean, having the most fanart doesn't always mean more popular. F!Robin definitely gets more fanart, but M!Robin is often the more popular pick in votes. It's like with Mass Effect's Commander Shepard. Female Shepard gets more attention in fanart and whatnot, but Male Shepard was the one picked the most by players.

It'd be very interesting to see which version of Byleth was picked the most in Three Houses.
Well, we do have Choose Your Legends which is an official popularity poll to see which characters receive new special alts.

These are the results of this year's voting:


From what we can take of this, yes, male Byleth is popular, but female moreso.
 

Diddy Kong

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MK was never gonna happen considering again, the latest games don't even come out in Japan, lol. You could at least said Tekken/Heihachi instead.

I do think Terry is somewhat of the "odd duck" of the third party guests in Smash (I view Banjo and Bayonetta as honorary Nintendo characters, so I count them differently). I think it may of just been a case of Nintendo knowing Sakurai really liked SNK games so they went ahead and basically gave him a freebie in the form of Terry, or maybe SNK flat out paid them to include Terry in, I don't know. Nonetheless, SNK is still this big historical thing in Japanese gaming, and Terry's pack is designed to encompass its whole history. So again, it's not really the equivalent of adding a fourth banana character from an already repped series.



I do think Dixie should be in because (in addition to DK being a big and long running franchise), unlike Dee/Impa/etc she was at least the main character in one (or two games if counting DKL3) game. Even then I can see why a lot of people think her inclusion wouldn't be very exciting.

I also honestly think K. Rool and Ridley were kinda the last of the big hype first party characters. I just don't see the likes of Impa or Krystal or Bandana Dee or even Dixie causing the same reaction. Granted, I guess one could make a case for Waluigi because of memes, but that's about it, I feel.
If Isaac makes it in, I think he'd bring a lot of hype. Golden Sun has great nostalgic value to a lot of people, and his inclusion in Smash would probably have the way for a new Golden Sun game.
 

Dinoman96

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I think it's very, very presumptuous to think that Isaac's inclusion in Smash would pave the way for a new GS game lol.

Little Mac's inclusion in Smash 4 certainly hasn't paved the way for a new Punch-Out!! game. And really...I'm not naive enough to think that Banjo Kazooie being in Smash is actually gonna lead to a new game or anything like that. I feel like all putting Isaac in Smash would really do is, well, just make him yet another guy that you can play as in Smash Bros., just like Captain Falcon, Little Mac, the Kid Icarus crew, Ice Climbers, etc.
 
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Digital Hazard

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I think it's very, very presumptuous to think that Isaac's inclusion in Smash would pave the way for a new GS game lol.

Little Mac's inclusion in Smash 4 certainly hasn't paved the way for a new Punch-Out!! game. And really...I'm not naive enough to think that Banjo Kazooie being in Smash is actually gonna lead to a new game or anything like that. I feel like all putting Isaac in Smash would really do is, well, just make him yet another guy that you can play as in Smash Bros., just like Captain Falcon, Little Mac, the Kid Icarus crew, Ice Climbers, etc.
I mean, I get your point, but by the time of 6,4 F-Zero was still an active series and Kid Icarus Uprising was fairly recent by the time Palutena and Dark Pit got in.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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I do think Dixie should be in because (in addition to DK being a big and long running franchise), unlike Dee/Impa/etc she was at least the main character in one (or two games if counting DKL3) game. Even then I can see why a lot of people think her inclusion wouldn't be very exciting.

I also honestly think K. Rool and Ridley were kinda the last of the big hype first party characters. I just don't see the likes of Impa or Krystal or Bandana Dee or even Dixie causing the same reaction. Granted, I guess one could make a case for Waluigi because of memes, but that's about it, I feel.
I'm just going to leave this here. I think Garteam Garteam put it better than I ever could.

I largely missed the first vs third party discussion, but I figured I'd throw my thoughts in as one of the most vocal first-party advocates in this thread.

First, I think this entire debate is built on a misunderstanding that causes a lot of tension in this discussion. Namely, both sides assume the other is adopting the most radical position possible. Those advocating for first parties often see third-party supporters as exclusively wanting their desired characters from across gaming's landscape to build Smash into their own official M.U.G.E.N, trampling any potentially unique or fun characters that don't fit this idea of what Smash ought to be in the process. Similarly, third-party supporters often see first-party supporters as gatekeepers trying to keep fun and unique characters out of Smash to maintain some sense of brand purity. However, it's rare to find someone who wants exclusively first or third parties. While people's exact preferences may lean one way or another, most people want some combination between Nintendo's lads and cool characters from across other great games.

That being said, I think the argument that Sakurai ought to focus primarily on third parties because casting the widest net possible requires leaning heavily on third parties' characters is pretty flawed.

Yes, Dixie Kong, Bandana Waddle Dee, Rex, and Impa are not the characters that are going to have Joe Schmo jumping out of his seat. However, it is unlikely Dante, 2B, Lloyd, or Sol Badguy will do this either. The very general public is interested in a specific set of characters that have essentially transcended the medium and become modern pop culture icons, characters like Crash Bandicoot, Master Chief, and Ezio. Yes, this set of "pop culture icons" people desire in Smash does consist mostly of third parties, but that has to do with the fact that most of Nintendo's pop culture icons like Mario, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, and Link have been in Smash for a long time. In fact, that's why I think it's so weird that people are using Waluigi of all characters as their example of a first-party that wouldn't catch much attention. Most people who have played a video game in the last 20 years know who the character is because nearly everyone has played Mario Kart and his exclusion from Smash was such a meme that it was picked up by mainstream news outlets like Washington Post. As such, I think people are indulging a little too much in wishful thinking when they believe that their characters who are, in the grand scheme of things, relatively obscure in the overall pop culture pantheon would receive Steve levels of attention just because they aren't a Nintendo character.

I honestly think the best demonstration of this is something Smashtuber Little Z said upon Steve's reveal (WARNING: SWEAR WORDS):
Little Z: "I always want Avatar Aang, Waluigi, Crash, or... anyone I ****ing recognize."
Bigwinbeer: "Yeah, recently I don't know any of the characters."
Little Z: "I didn't know anyone in the last Fighter's Pass or Min Min."

Even with 4/5 characters in the first Fighter's Pass being third parties, the "big net" a lot of people have been discussing in this thread has not been cast. My friends are relatively knowledgable on what's going on in the gaming world, but they thought Joker was from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, questioned why Banjo and Kazooie were added when Duck Hunt was already there, and claimed Terry looked like the fusion of a trucker and a member of 90's boy band. They didn't know who any of those characters were, so they definitely weren't excited over their possible inclusion. The only exception to this in the first Fighter's Pass was Hero, but even he has only transcended into a mainstream icon in certain countries. Third parties aren't guaranteed to catch the attention of the entire public.

However, is this a bad thing? Of course not. In spite of lacking an all-star lineup of mainstream icons, the first Fighter's Pass was awesome. It included a ton of enjoyable characters with awesome new playstyles. Ever since Melee, where Sakurai realized he had enough of his bases covered to begin experimenting with weird ideas in the roster, Smash has been an expert at giving us things we never knew we wanted. Few went to bat for the Ice Climbers, a Game and Watch character, R.O.B, the trainer from Wii Fit, or the dog from Duck Hunt with a duck on his back, but even fewer argue against their inclusion now. While none of the characters discussed, be it first or third-party, really reach this range of obscurity, but the general principle remains the same. Dante's inclusion would be a lot of fun, so who cares if some people are unfamiliar with the character? Same thing with Bandana Waddle Dee, Dixie Kong, Lloyd, Geno, 2B, or anyone else who isn't a massive star. There are 20 million people who own a copy of Smash Ultimate, some people are not going to know who certain characters are, and that's okay. Arguing that the Smash roster ought to primarily be decided by who will get the biggest initial reaction amongst the greatest number of people seems to be a short road to throwing out lots of would-be cool ideas and gutting a lot of the flavour that's made Smash's rosters so great in the past.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I think it's very, very presumptuous to think that Isaac's inclusion in Smash would pave the way for a new GS game lol.

Little Mac's inclusion in Smash 4 certainly hasn't paved the way for a new Punch-Out!! game. And really...I'm not naive enough to think that Banjo Kazooie being in Smash is actually gonna lead to a new game or anything like that. I feel like all putting Isaac in Smash would really do is, well, just make him yet another guy that you can play as in Smash Bros., just like Captain Falcon, Little Mac, the Kid Icarus crew, Ice Climbers, etc.
I mean Uprising happened literally a few years after Pit’s Smash debut in Brawl sooooooooo

wrt F-Zero, they’ve been trying to do something, but always hit some kind of speed bump (pun intended) along the way, such as Criterion saying no to developing the next game; Miyamoto insisting on a gimmick etc, but they’re well aware of the demand for a new F-Zero game

Ice Climbers... haha that’s literally never getting a new game, Sakurai just liked their mechanic and they’ve been a mainstay since (4 and it’s technical issues notwithstanding) so they may be the exception here
 

Dinoman96

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I mean Uprising happened literally a few years after Pit’s Smash debut in Brawl sooooooooo
That's literally the one exception lol

And Uprising being a thing was really just more happenstance more than anything. Sakurai came up with a concept for a game that switched between aerial and grounded combat and was given the option by his buddy Iwata to use a pre-existing Nintendo IP for it. He just went with Kid Icarus mainly because it fit the concept of the game was going for.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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What's funny is that with many of the first party character requests barring Isaac most of them are fairly active in their series besides Smash. Waluigi constantly pops up, Bandana Dee is a staple of Kirby, Impa's presence in mainline Zelda/spinoffs is virtually guaranteed, and even most future DKC games are not likely to be without Dixie in the future.

As noted, many of the characters that are in the game like Little Mac, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer, Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, Captain Falcon, are essentially vestiges of dead franchises whose popularity in Smash hasn't really changed their IP's prominence.
 

Guynamednelson

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I also honestly think K. Rool and Ridley were kinda the last of the big hype first party characters. I just don't see the likes of Impa or Krystal or Bandana Dee or even Dixie causing the same reaction. Granted, I guess one could make a case for Waluigi because of memes, but that's about it, I feel.
Good thing Sakurai's goal is to make a game, not just have people scream at their screens over trailers. He waited until Steve wouldn't take away too much of the newcomer budget instead of looking at Minecraft's success and going "We need Steve in Smash right NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!"
 

True Blue Warrior

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Good thing Sakurai's goal is to make a game, not just have people scream at their screens over trailers. He waited until Steve wouldn't take away too much of the newcomer budget instead of looking at Minecraft's success and going "We need Steve in Smash right NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!"
Another problem is that the mentality of over-relying on hype always leads to inevitable disappointments when those expectations are not met, always with the last few newcomer characters.
 

Ivander

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Well, we do have Choose Your Legends which is an official popularity poll to see which characters receive new special alts.

These are the results of this year's voting:


From what we can take of this, yes, male Byleth is popular, but female moreso.
Yeah, both sides are relatively popular, cause on the Three Houses popularity poll, M!Byleth was higher placed on the male side compared to F!Byleth on the female side.
 
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