Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean, Mega Man's up tilt...are MvC shoutouts iirc

I think both attacks seemed to be based off of their Marvel Vs. Capcom variants, but neither of them debut there.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think both attacks seemed to be based off of their Marvel Vs. Capcom variants, but neither of them debut there.

I don't know if Power Fighters give Mega Ma

n the Mega Upper or not but those are still references to MvC specifically so those count

 

[Louie G.]

Marvel Vs. Capcom has a very different scope from Super Smash Bros. Its limited to just Marvel and Capcom characters, so it's kind of a given that people are going to want their favorites from the depths of the two companies's histories regardless of how obscure they may be at the moment.

That's fair enough - personally I treat them somewhat similarly, because I'm one of those weirdos who still dominantly sees Smash as a Nintendo crossover. But I'm not naive to the current expansive focus of our DLC so far, so I do understand what you mean.

Even so, it's not really correct that Super Smash Bros. fans dislike obscure characters either. One of the communities's favorite characters is Captain Falcon for crying out loud. Generally, he only time relevance comes into play as a point against a character is when discussing likelihood. I've only heard like, a single person who has said that they didn't want/like a character because they're irrelevant or don't have much legacy.

Yeah, perhaps I've just rubbed shoulders with the bad eggs of the community a few too many times haha. I do feel like the standards are a lot higher now though on the basis that we've been getting bigger and / or more popular characters on average. I do see a surprising number of people still take issue with Jigglypuff though lmao.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think Min Min was a very refreshing and well needed change of pace for a first party newcomer.

A popular character from a successful new series. They also waited to see if the character and game would stick (don't kid yourselves, it did).



Also **** all ya'll .ARMS is amazing.

 

[3BitSaurus]

He's not entirely wrong, the Smash community makes up a lot of rules and standards that other fighting games just don't care about. Well, at least that's what I thought he meant. Maybe the point could have been made a little better but it's something I think about pretty often.

Case in point is MVC. MVC fans welcome and long for more Darkstalkers content despite its dormancy, but many Smash fans reject certain characters or series from getting more content because they're 'irrelevant' and whatnot. You have characters like Shuma Gorath in MVC from the near beginning, completely weird out of left field characters, but those characters in Smash are often received with skepticism or the ones that are already in seen as expendable. Many fighting games even have characters who are promoted from background elements or supporting roles, which many Smash fans see as a death sentence.

I'm not trying to generalize the entire community, I do think it's something that a lot of us tend to fall into though. This mindset that we know better or that we can write off this or that character because of a retrospectively arbitrary reason... how many people are so surprised when those original expectations and perceived rules are shattered. There are many sentiments about character selection and validity that I really only see in the Smash community.

Er, I may have tangented a bit. But yeah, I just think it's interesting the way certain sects of the community will write off characters on reasons that don't stack up in pretty much any other fighting game. Getting involved in other fighters has really opened my eyes to that.

You know, whenever I see someone say that first parties are "objectively unhype" or something, my mind immediately goes back for when I went to check for reactions for the Honor of Kings character in Samsho (forgot her name).

A good chunk of those were dunking on the guest characters added to the game and asking about returning veterans.

A similar case could also be made for what people wanted from MvCI, I guess.

I could be wrong, but I feel as though some comparisons between the biggest crossover in gaming history (potentially media history?) and other fighting games don’t exactly work.

They aren’t designed in the same way. Mortal Kombat has original characters, while Smash pulls from existing IP in the industry.

Smash and Mortal Kombat are fighting games, yes. But I gotta say I think the comparisons end there.

At the same time... scope might be a big difference, but it's one difference.

When other fighting games pull a non-guest character, there's a good chance it's someone the core fans will care about. Meanwhile, we seem to be stuck discussing likelihood in relation to Nintendo's current releases or something.

I guess at this point I might just be venting, but I wish third parties blowing up in Smash hadn't come at the cost of this whole "muh relevance" thing for first parties and having to scream into the void for 2~3 whole games to get a character. I think there could be space for both, if Nintendo was willing to try.

 

[Dinoman96]

The simplest answer I can give is that Smash Bros. is considered to be a much bigger deal than stuff like MVC. It's pretty much considered to be Video Game Valhalla, and people naturally have higher standards/expectations of who or what can get into these games or not.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That said I don't know why people are saying Min Min was received poorly.

She blatantly wasn't. If a few frazzled internet goers means a character is received poorly than Isabelle and Bayonetta were received poorly.

This seems like hardcore fans twisting facts to suit a narrative.

 

[The Prankster 16]

PHYSICALLY!

Fighter Pack 8: Amingo

 

[SKX31]

Yeah but my main point is they appeal to the core fanbase that's been with the series since it started too.

That's very much true - it's worth pointing out that those characters generally have enough longlevity to them to see modern remakes (regardless of how good said remakes are).

Yeah, perhaps I've just rubbed shoulders with the bad eggs of the community a few too many times haha. I do feel like the standards are a lot higher now though on the basis that we've been getting bigger and / or more popular characters on average. I do see a surprising number of people still take issue with Jigglypuff though lmao.

If I had to guess, maybe it's those who don't remember when Jigglypuff was a very popular staple?

Its inclusion in 64 did make sense outside of it being relatively easy to program - after all, the balloon Pokemon was a very memorable part of the anime and had a characteristic aspect in the games too (Sing).

Then Sakurai decided to change Rest into a ****ing hilarious attack and the rest is history:

It's been quite a while since Jigglypuff was amongst the most "relevant" Pokemon, and I'd imagine that those not into the competitive scene would not be (as) aware of just how the Balloon Pokemon's become a staple of Smash since. (Jigglypuff's the first character who can inflict a status debuff through Sing for example)

You know, whenever I see someone say that first parties are "objectively unhype" or something, my mind immediately goes back for when I went to check for reactions for the Honor of Kings character in Samsho (forgot her name).

Her name's Gongsun Li. I remember that name because she brought parasols to a sword fight (and can win those).

 

[Dinoman96]

Min Min was pretty well received overall from what I saw. It was just ResetEra that were pissed because they wanted Twintelle instead lol

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I do feel like the standards are a lot higher now though on the basis that we've been getting bigger and / or more popular characters on average. I do see a surprising number of people still take issue with Jigglypuff though lmao.

That is true to some extent, I'm not really sure how well liked the Ice Climbers would be had this game been their first outing, though Duck Hunt was recieved just fine so I dunno if people would necessarily hate them either.

And yeah, Jigglypuff is pretty much the only reason why people don't think the Original 12 shouldn't always come back.

That said I don't know why people are saying Min Min was received poorly.

She blatantly wasn't. If a few frazzled internet goers means a character is received poorly than Isabelle and Bayonetta were received poorly.

This seems like hardcore fans twisting facts to suit a narrative.

I don't think Min Min was received poorly. It's just that most people didn't really care one way or the other, and most of the positivity surrounding her inclusion was because the guessing game made Spring Man into a boogeyman of sorts.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Some of us are just trying to be realistic here lol

I just really see how someone can look at and be like "aw yeah, waluigi and dixie kong are sure to be in!". Those kind of characters just don't really fit with the current DLC model for the Fighters Passes, unfortunately.

"realistic" is just an excuse to never think about characters that aren't Crash Bandicoot. And you thought an ARMS rep wouldn't be realistic yourself until it happened.

 

[The Prankster 16]

Min Min was pretty well received overall from what I saw. It was just ResetEra that were pissed because they wanted Twintelle instead lol

And Twitter weirdos who said that Nintendo was "racist" for picking Min Min instead of Twintelle

 

[Guynamednelson]

And Twitter weirdos who said that Nintendo was "racist" for picking Min Min instead of Twintelle

...that's pretty much ResetEra.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

"realistic" is just an excuse to never think about characters that aren't Crash Bandicoot. And you thought an ARMS rep wouldn't be realistic yourself until it happened.

Did Crash murder your parents or something cause I sure as **** see people regularly talk about more than just Crash

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Fighter Pack 8: Amingo

paging Will

And Twitter weirdos who said that Nintendo was "racist" for picking Min Min instead of Twintelle

you know what they say... get woke, go broke.

 

[I.D.]

YASSSSSSSSS MIDDLE AGED EXECUTIVES FROM TWO COMPANIES SIGNED A CONTRACT TO GET A CHARACTER IN VIDEOGAME VALHALLA WHERE ONLY THE BIGGEST ICONS ARE ALLOWED
I'M HYYYYYYYYYYYYPING

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If I had to guess, maybe it's those who don't remember when Jigglypuff was a very popular staple?

Its inclusion in 64 did make sense outside of it being relatively easy to program - after all, the balloon Pokemon was a very memorable part of the anime and had a characteristic aspect in the games too (Sing).

Then Sakurai decided to change Rest into a ****ing hilarious attack and the rest is history:

lol

I suppose it also dosn't help that Jigglypuff is also consistently poorly designed, with her being too campy in Melee, garbage in Brawl and for 3Ds/Wii U, and just OK in Ultimate.

YASSSSSSSSS MIDDLE AGED EXECUTIVES FROM TWO COMPANIES SIGNED A CONTRACT TO GET A CHARACTER IN VIDEOGAME VALHALLA WHERE ONLY THE BIGGEST ICONS ARE ALLOWED
I'M HYYYYYYYYYYYYPING

OK while I don't think Byleth is bad, the idea that they're iconic is hilarious.

 

[SharkLord]

Did Crash murder your parents or something cause I sure as **** see people regularly talk about more than just Crash

From what I can gather, Crash seems to be a general agreement around here. Most people seem to think he's pretty likely, so there just isn't much to talk about regarding him. He's just kinda always there, not enough that you actively go with it but not so much that you want it gone.

Or, if you want a more nonsensical explanation, Crash is permanently T-Posing over us all.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

From what I can gather, Crash seems to be a general agreement around here. Most people seem to think he's pretty likely, so there just isn't much to talk about regarding him. He's just kinda always there, not enough that you actively go with it but not so much that you want it gone.

Or, if you want a more nonsensical explanation, Crash is permanently T-Posing over us all.

...


How does your more nonsensical explanation make more sense?

 

[SharkLord]

OK while I don't think Byleth is bad, the idea that they're iconic is hilarious.

Nintendo must've taken notes from Assassin's Creed while they got the rights to the Altair costume.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

From what I can gather, Crash seems to be a general agreement around here. Most people seem to think he's pretty likely, so there just isn't much to talk about regarding him. He's just kinda always there, not enough that you actively go with it but not so much that you want it gone.

Or, if you want a more nonsensical explanation, Crash is permanently T-Posing over us all.

It's not just Crash T Posing. It's him T Posing when nude as this is in Crash 4's files

Can't believe the Sonic's Ass Game joke came full circle.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Honestly Byleth will always be useful for gauging what actual negative response to a Smash character really looks like. There is a baseline standard that's been set and it will take a heck of an effort to even get close to ever matching it, as neither Min Min nor Steve did.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's not just Crash T Posing. It's him T Posing when nude as this is in Crash 4's files

I assume this is here because Crash is never naked in game, but he has various costumes that swap onto his model, so one of the modelers said "let's give him a butt. lol".

Truly our industry is made up of only the most refined individuals.

 

[Guynamednelson]

OK while I don't think Byleth is bad, the idea that they're iconic is hilarious.

If anything it's an example of how we shouldn't project our western values onto a Japanese company.

...as was Banjo and Kazooie...
...and Terry...
...and Min Min...

 

[3BitSaurus]

I assume this is here because Crash is never naked in game, but he has various costumes that swap onto his model, so one of the modelers said "let's give him a butt. lol".

Truly our industry is made up of only the most refined individuals.

My, we're back to NSFW stuff already? My clock must be delayed or something.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

My, we're back to NSFW stuff already? My clock must be delayed or something.

It's from a 7+ game that's SFW

If anything it's an example of how we shouldn't project our western values onto a Japanese company.

...as was Banjo and Kazooie...
...and Terry...
...and Min Min...

What the actual **** are you talking about

 

[GoodGrief741]

With the recent news on 2 Fire Emblem games getting localized for a limited time, here's a reminder that Ultimate has yet to host a Fire Emblem themed Tourney.

What do you mean 2 FE games

 

[Guynamednelson]

What do you mean 2 FE games

Possible confusion over how it's "Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light", not "Shadow Dragon" and "The Blade of Light".

 

[Spongeboob]

If we're (or were) talking MvC, I think some of the music would be pretty great to have in Smash. Some of the tracks from (U)MvC3 that I like are:

• Spider-Man's Theme
• Arthur's Theme
• Doctor Doom's Theme
• Ghost Rider's Theme
• Shuma-Gorath's Theme
• Ryu's Theme
• Phoenix Wright's Theme

Also **** all ya'll .ARMS is amazing.

I like ARMS as well, but I don't think it's anything special. (EDIT: in terms of quality. Obviously, the gameplay does get the noggin joggin'.)

That said I don't know why people are saying Min Min was received poorly.
She blatantly wasn't. If a few frazzled internet goers means a character is received poorly than Isabelle and Bayonetta were received poorly.
This seems like hardcore fans twisting facts to suit a narrative.

If they were received poorly then Byleth is an unforgiveable sin.

Did Crash murder your parents or something cause I sure as **** see people regularly talk about more than just Crash

Yeah, we talk about Geno and Doomguy and Hayabusa and Reimu and Dante, too, along with whatever FOTM character and recent releases and announcements.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If we're (or were) talking MvC, I think some of the music would be pretty great to have in Smash. Some of the tracks from (U)MvC3 that I like are:

• Spider-Man's Theme
• Arthur's Theme
• Doctor Doom's Theme
• Ghost Rider's Theme
• Shuma-Gorath's Theme
• Ryu's Theme
• Phoenix Wright's Theme

I like ARMS as well, but I don't think it's anything special. (EDIT: in terms of quality. Obviously, the gameplay does get the noggin joggin'.)

If they were received poorly then Byleth is an unforgiveable sin.

Yeah, we talk about Geno and Doomguy and Hayabusa and Reimu and Dante, too, along with whatever FOTM character and recent releases and announcements.

which Phoenix Wright theme? there's two y'know

 

[Spongeboob]

which Phoenix Wright theme? there's two y'know

I like them both but I prefer his regular one.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I like them both but I prefer his regular one.

personally the Turnabout theme gets me PUMPEDDDDD af, ultimate hype anthem

 

[cashregister9]

If we're (or were) talking MvC, I think some of the music would be pretty great to have in Smash. Some of the tracks from (U)MvC3 that I like are:

• Spider-Man's Theme
• Arthur's Theme
• Doctor Doom's Theme
• Ghost Rider's Theme
• Shuma-Gorath's Theme
• Ryu's Theme
• Phoenix Wright's Theme

I personally would add Amaterasu's and Deadpool's theme too but otherwise that list is very good

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I personally would add Amaterasu's and Deadpool's theme too but otherwise that list is very good

It may just be me not generally liking techno, but I think Amaterasu's Theme butchers The Sun Rises pretty hard.

Also, Firebrand's Theme best. Followed very closely by Turnabout and Arthur's Themes.

 

[Spongeboob]

I think people are/were fearmongering by saying that we were guaranteed to get another Pokemon and Fire Emblem rep for this pass.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

I mean, Was Joker realistic before his reveal? Was Terry realistic before his leak?

The only characters i though of as realistic were Hero and Steve, and the inevitable FE rep that was going to get in anyway.

Im not saying First Party characters are likely, but trying to entertain the idea woulnd't hurt.

I think people are/were fearmongering by saying that we were guaranteed to get another Pokemon and Fire Emblem rep for this pass.

Nah we aren't getting another FE rep for this Pass, what are they gonna do, promote Lyn for DLC to promote the hypothetical Elibe Remake?

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

I think people are/were fearmongering by saying that we were guaranteed to get another Pokemon and Fire Emblem rep for this pass.

They wouldn't have done a Sword/Shield spirit event if they were gonna do a Sword/Shield Pokemon as DLC. They would've just skipped doing one until the DLC dropped like they did with Three Houses.

It'd be like if they hadn't done Byleth but had done a Three Houses spirit event with Byleth, Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude and folks were arguing that Rhea and Yuri were still possibilities. They wouldn't be.

 

[Cosmic77]

They wouldn't have done a Sword/Shield spirit event if they were gonna do a Sword/Shield Pokemon as DLC. They would've just skipped doing one until the DLC dropped like they did with Three Houses.

It'd be like if they hadn't done Byleth but had done a Three Houses spirit event with Byleth, Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude and folks were arguing that Rhea and Yuri were still possibilities. They wouldn't be.

To be fair, the absolute earliest we'd get a SwSh Pokémon at this point is next year. It's not unbelievable to think they'd make Spirits to commorate the release of a AAA game instead of waiting at least a year and three months.

Besides, I'm sure they'd recycle most, if not all of the Spirits for the Spirit Board. It's not like any time was wasted.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It'd be like if they hadn't done Byleth but had done a Three Houses spirit event with Byleth, Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude and folks were arguing that Rhea and Yuri were still possibilities. They wouldn't be.

No it'd be like if they did a Spirit Event included Rhea, Seteth, and Flayn and people argued that Byleth or one of the three house leaders would still be possibilities. They would be, at least if Fire Emblem held the same weight as Pokémon.

As it stands though, a Pokémon would have been added already if it was coming, so we aren't one this time around.