Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[ZelDan]

Ok but this is graphically superior to Shadow Dragon, doesn't demand blood sacrifices of all the fodder units for sidequests and Marth becomes almost completely invincible, so that's worth something

Good to know I guess.

Still not terribly excited but maybe I'll change my mind.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Good to know I guess.

Still not terribly excited but maybe I'll change my mind.

Fair enough, I'm just venting at how much I dislike Shadow Dragon DS as it's easily the worst FE game I've played

 

[---]

I fell bad for the MOTHER 3 fans who think that this will be a prefect segway on getting there games on there publicly

I'm sorry but I'm pretty sure FE1 didn't have racist AND transmisogynist cast of characters combine into one

This is still a needed step forward. But yeah, we're still a long way away from Mother 3:

1. FE1 is a much simpler game on a much simpler system.
2. FE has been selling very well for Nintendo over the past decade.
3. My Nintendo sent people polls back in March DIRECTLY asking if they wanted to play older games in the series.
4. Arguably there was an existing script for the game thanks to FE11 to base off of.
5. Aside from localization, there's probably less paperwork involved given rights.

Realistically we just have to hope that NOA sees enough interest to continue on with Gaiden and maybe Mystery of the Emblem; both of which are better games IMO.

Ok but this is graphically superior to Shadow Dragon, doesn't demand blood sacrifices of all the fodder units for sidequests and Marth becomes almost completely invincible, so that's worth something

Funny thing is due to bad AI in FE1, enemy units will generally prioritize targeting Marth above anything else.

 

[Spongeboob]

Marth is just Blue Roy.

 

[7NATOR]

So since we talking Fire Emblem

I Need to Ask, What are the Chances we don't get a Character that uses a Sword in FP2? (No Hate towards Sword Characters, Just wondering)

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I'll keep quoting a certain article here:



The issues Nintendo's had with online is a main reason why I've come around to the idea that Nintendo as a organization staunchly supports the idea that "video games are toys, and experimentation's the way to go". While Nintendo may have considered the online infrastructure a diversion at best during the Wii era...

...Fact of the matter is, it's gotten to the point where online is nigh-essential for a major company to thrive in the industry. It's kind of telling when NSO is the third Nintendo network service in 13 years. Sure, Nintendo doesn't want to implement a lot of online stuff because loud voices within Nintendo fear that strangers talking to kids and other incidents will harm the online at large (which makes sense). It does miss the point though that nowadays people tend to use Discord and other stuff if they wanna talk in game. And often not the in-game voice chat where a stranger screams bloody murder and all kinds of curse words when (s)he dies in game.

The point about Discord is IMHO a big reason why Nintendo's mobile voice chat has not taken off as Nintendo hoped. Mobile voice chat makes sense given the Switch's portability... buuuut it's really undermined by Discord, Fortnite supporting native voice chat on the Switch itself and the fact that most people don't really play concentration-intensive multiplayer games when on the bus. It doesn't help that as you said they don't have much of a strategy re: configuration and preffered ways to play.

Introducing new ways to play can be amazing, but IMHO Nintendo should at this point have a fall back in case there's another failure. Especially since Nintendo only have a console line nowadays, not two. With that the back-catalogue becomes more important - and as such, I'd honestly argue that Nintendo should focus a lot on improving its online infrastructure and making sure the back-catalogue is more reguarily updated on NSO. Also, they should keep an online service going and not change it with every console.

While the article is IMHO too pessimistic regarding Nintendo's capabilities to change and adapt to the wider video game landscape, it's certainly worth a read.

Long term there's something to be said for having a valuable online infrastructure that's worthwhile regardless of the strength or weakness of the console. And access to the backlog will be especially critical if/when certain exclusives lose some interest in the market. The brands still get big business and even a Genshin Impact is not going to replace a Zelda for now, but who's to say what kind of games and outlets could emerge as real competitors to Nintendo franchises within the next 20 years?

 

[Guynamednelson]

So since we talking Fire Emblem

I Need to Ask, What are the Chances we don't get a Character that uses a Sword in FP2? (No Hate towards Sword Characters, Just wondering)

0%. Just look at Steve's jab, forward tilt, neutral air, and forward smash.

If you mean a character that focuses on the sword, still 0%.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Looks like FE just entered the FP running. I say Elwood has a chance.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Not to sound like That Person but

we just got Byleth come on

plus I think they’re focusing on newer FE titles to add protags to Smash from, so no revisiting older titles. RIP Celica, Micaiah, etc...

 

[cashregister9]

Not to sound like That Person but

we just got Byleth come on

plus I think they’re focusing on newer FE titles to add protags to Smash from, so no revisiting older titles. RIP Celica, Micaiah, etc...

No we must be defeatist and negative all the time when it comes to first parties

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No we must be defeatist and negative all the time when it comes to first parties

Who said this was negative? Marth would be a cool addition to Smash

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Marth is just Blue Roy.

Yeah but this Roy is voiced by Yuri Lowenthal

 

[Spongeboob]

If people hate how many swordies there are in Smash, then I think they're going to have a field day with something like Samurai Shodown.

So since we talking Fire Emblem

I Need to Ask, What are the Chances we don't get a Character that uses a Sword in FP2? (No Hate towards Sword Characters, Just wondering)

0%. Just look at Steve's jab, forward tilt, neutral air, and forward smash.

What he said. Aside from Steve, I can't say. We don't have squat to go on.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wonder, was there ever any update from that Crash twitter guy who claimed there were documents or no?

 

[Aerospherology]

If people hate how many swordies there are in Smash, then I think they're going to have a field day with something like Samurai Shodown.

Soulcaliber

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Soulcaliber

The Dissidia Final Fantasy series of FF fighting game spinoffs

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If people hate how many swordies there are in Smash, then I think they're going to have a field day with something like Samurai Shodown

Bold of you to assume Smash fans play video games instead of just oohing and ahing at the character select screen of a single game

 

[Aerospherology]

Bold of you to assume Smash fans play video games instead of just oohing and ahing at the character select screen of a single game

$120 dollars for some icons

 

[7NATOR]

I wonder, was there ever any update from that Crash twitter guy who claimed there were documents or no?

I Don't think so

On those Documents though, I Believe they are Confirmed Real though, as I think a Activision Person commented on a 5 Year plan. the Document Contents is whether that's real or not

I Believe Fatmanonice Actually heard about the Document around Janurary of this year or so, and that's a big Part of why he has Crash in his Predictions. I Assume that perhaps he heard about Crash in Smash 2020/2021, or he was just Assuming. Of course with it being Fatmanonice, Take it with Huge Grain of Salt

 

[CannonStreak]

I Don't think so

On those Documents though, I Believe they are Confirmed Real though, as I think a Activision Person commented on a 5 Year plan. the Document Contents is whether that's real or not

I Believe Fatmanonice Actually heard about the Document around Janurary of this year or so, and that's a big Part of why he has Crash in his Predictions. I Assume that perhaps he heard about Crash in Smash 2020/2021, or he was just Assuming. Of course with it being Fatmanonice, Take it with Huge Grain of Salt

Don’t be on the grain of salt thing. I know he is not perfect as a leaker, but regardless, hearing it from Fatman can’t be bad.

Should probably take all the documents and everything about them with a grain of salt anyways, just in case.

 

[Flik]

Looks like FE just entered the FP running. I say Elwood has a chance.

I'd love some new characters as new alts. Eliwood for Marth and Eirika for Lucina.

Bold of you to assume Smash fans play video games instead of just oohing and ahing at the character select screen of a single game

I like to watch CPU vs CPU matches, does that counts?

 

[7NATOR]

Don’t be on the grain of salt thing. I know he is not perfect as a leaker, but regardless, hearing it from Fatman can’t be bad.

Should probably take all the documents and everything about them with a grain of salt anyways, just in case.

I Know how this thread about Fatman, So that's why I said take with Huge Grain of Salt. I don't think he's Completely Fake, but there is alot of Speculation with him, so alot his "Inside Info" Might only be inside his Head

yes

 

[CannonStreak]

I Know how this thread about Fatman, So that's why I said take with Huge Grain of Salt. I don't think he's Completely Fake, but there is alot of Speculation with him, so alot his "Inside Info" Might only be inside his Head

yes

I wouldn’t say it is inside his head, but nonetheless, I can see what you mean.

Regardless, it is probably best to not to trust these documents in general, for now.

 

[7NATOR]

I wouldn’t say it is inside his head, but nonetheless, I can see what you mean.

Regardless, it is probably best to not to trust these documents in general, for now.

Maybe inside his head wasn't the Right wording

More like he gives his 'Info" through his own lens, but that might not actually what he's syaing he is, because he adds his own spin and conclusions on things. It's not even something unique to Fatman I would say, I think besides the really notable Insiders, Alot of Inside Info will probably be mixed in with Speculation. Hard info that 100% backs a character as playable is probably in Very Short Supply, or Non-existent as an example

And yeah I don't really trust the Contents of the Crash Document being what it's said to be, since there is no proof and if it leaked, I would think at least there e a Pic or something. Even if the Contents are real, I don't think that gurantees Crash anyway and that depends on your Thoughts and stuff

 

[CannonStreak]

Maybe inside his head wasn't the Right wording

More like he gives his 'Info" through his own lens, but that might not actually what he's syaing he is, because he adds his own spin and conclusions on things. It's not even something unique to Fatman I would say, I think besides the really notable Insiders, Alot of Inside Info will probably be mixed in with Speculation. Hard info that 100% backs a character as playable is probably in Very Short Supply, or Non-existent as an example

And yeah I don't really trust the Contents of the Crash Document being what it's said to be, since there is no proof and if it leaked, I would think at least there e a Pic or something. Even if the Contents are real, I don't think that gurantees Crash anyway and that depends on your Thoughts and stuff

I see. Well, I guess I should try to learn about Fatman in that regard then, to understand why he would do that. Makes sense though, nonetheless.

And yeah, I am not trusting the 5 year plan and documents thing myself. It does so far qualify as something that looks to be made up.

 

[Spongeboob]

I like to watch CPU vs CPU matches, does that counts?

I watch amiibo duke it out. Sometimes it's entertaining.

I Know how this thread about Fatman, So that's why I said take with Huge Grain of Salt. I don't think he's Completely Fake, but there is alot of Speculation with him, so alot his "Inside Info" Might only be inside his Head

Hence the name, "inside info".

 

[Louie G.]

I've said it before, but even if the Crash docs are legit that doesn't mean Activision was definitely able to bring Crash to Smash Bros.

Nintendo has to want it first - being in Smash is a great stretch goal to bring Crash back into the limelight, but if it's on this document then it's exactly that: a goal. Plenty of discussions with Nintendo never went anywhere (ie Doomguy). More important than Activision wanting their character promoted in Smash (who doesn't) is whether or not Nintendo themselves see Crash as a worthwhile move on their part.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Controversial opinion time: The "Smash Bubble" as a term has evolved into little more than shorthand for "This character I don't like is popular amongst the core fanbase, but their popularity is overblown by a vocal minority. Now this character I like, on the other hand, they've got real popularity. It's just from a silent majority that's drown out by all these nasty Smash fans that don't want a different opinion".

Not only do these takes usually have little in objective evidence or argumentation to back it up, but in what world is being popular amongst the core fanbase a knock against a character? They are the people who actually, y'know, buy and play the game, so throwing them a bone isn't necessarily a bad thing. The core fanbase's requests got Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo in and it's unlikely that "Everyone is here!" would've happen if not for fans demanding their long lost mains return.

That's not to say there aren't outsiders with valuable input, or that we've never gotten any interesting characters or ideas from listening to more casual requests, but it seems just as backwards to suggest that certain characters don't have legitimate popularity because they're only popular amongst a certain demographic.

This touches on pure marketing.
Do you aim to please the people you have and get repeat buys--
or do you aim to go big, and bring in a blue ocean of new clientele?

 

[7NATOR]

This touches on pure marketing.
Do you aim to please the people you have and get repeat buys--
or do you aim to go big, and bring in a blue ocean of new clientele?

Along with that is figuring how much of a Crossover there is Between Smash and the New Audience that would be catered to

Just because you throw in a Popular Franchise as a guest in a Game, doesn't mean all of the fans will flock. Whether the Audience would be for FPS Fans, Visual Novels, MOBAs, etc, Figuring which new audience would be more likely to buy a Fighting game is something to consider, even if they have their favorite characters in it

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I've said it before, but even if the Crash docs are legit that doesn't mean Activision was definitely able to bring Crash to Smash Bros.

Nintendo has to want it first - being in Smash is a great stretch goal to bring Crash back into the limelight, but if it's on this document then it's exactly that: a goal. Plenty of discussions with Nintendo never went anywhere (ie Doomguy). More important than Activision wanting their character promoted in Smash (who doesn't) is whether or not Nintendo themselves see Crash as a worthwhile move on their part.

I mean, Nintendo clearly valued Crash considering how much they hyped up the N. Sane Trilogy. I have no clue what these supposed document leaks are but it's pretty clear they'd want to play ball if possible

 

[Louie G.]

I mean, Nintendo clearly valued Crash considering how much they hyped up the N. Sane Trilogy. I have no clue what these supposed document leaks are but it's pretty clear they'd want to play ball if possible

They also value Bethesda, who was getting some pretty extensive coverage in their Directs whether it was Skyrim or Doom (I recall them being VERY excited about the former), and as far as we've heard those talks have only resulted in a Vault Boy mii costume. I'm not really making a point about whether Crash is an important character or game to represent in Smash - I think he'd be fine - but there are only four spots left. There are plenty of characters who seem like no-brainers for Nintendo to either agree to or seek out, but there are more characters who fit that role than characters who are left.

I don't recall the push for N Sane Trilogy on Switch being that much more significant than any other big-name third party Switch title at the time. I'm also not sure whether or not Nintendo of Japan values Crash as much as Nintendo of America would, seeing how the series is much more popular over here than it is there (although yeah it did well during the PS1 era). Just food for thought - at the end of the day Crash has enough going for him to seem like a viable candidate. But so do plenty of other characters, and Nintendo may just have other priorities than Crash Bandicoot.

We'll see, but as we should know by now a company wanting a character in Smash is hardly a guarantee it will happen.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I've said it before, but even if the Crash docs are legit that doesn't mean Activision was definitely able to bring Crash to Smash Bros.

Nintendo has to want it first - being in Smash is a great stretch goal to bring Crash back into the limelight, but if it's on this document then it's exactly that: a goal. Plenty of discussions with Nintendo never went anywhere (ie Doomguy). More important than Activision wanting their character promoted in Smash (who doesn't) is whether or not Nintendo themselves see Crash as a worthwhile move on their part.

I don’t know how much any of this holds up. If Activision had legit conversations about their character coming into Smash I have to believe that a character from a partner that big would get at least SOMETHING from that company. And Activision hasn’t gotten anything which, going of what we have right now, doesn’t make sense.

For example, we know that Nintendo had to have discussions with all of Ubisoft, Bethesda, and ArcSys because all these companies got some kind of representation in Smash. Ubi with Altair, Bethesda got Vault Boy, and ArcSys got some spirits. As far as we know right now, that probably means that these characters aren’t getting a character, at least right now. Depending on how long the Docs say these talks took place we likely should have gotten SOMETHING by now. So depending on how long ago these talks took place we could be looking at Crash this pass easily.

It’s actually one reason I think Hayabusa is coming to Smash pretty soon because if Vergeben is right and they’ve had talks with KT so long ago we should have gotten SOMETHING by now. And since we haven’t I have to assume it’s a new character that will be bundled with stuff.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

{No Peeping!}
In order to add characters to Smash, Sakurai gets to see a number of Nintendo titles in development. #SmashBros#Nintendo#PushFacts pic.twitter.com/f4STEdq0Mx

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) October 22, 2020

Hmm, interesting

 

[ROBnWatch]

Bold of you to assume Smash fans play video games instead of just oohing and ahing at the character select screen of a single game

Bold of you to assume I look over the CSS instead of just selecting the same few characters to play over and over.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

{No Peeping!}
In order to add characters to Smash, Sakurai gets to see a number of Nintendo titles in development. #SmashBros#Nintendo#PushFacts pic.twitter.com/f4STEdq0Mx

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) October 22, 2020

Hmm, interesting

In other words the sky is blue, water is wet and Princess Peach got kidnapped by Bowser. We've known this is the case since Melee

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

This was mentioned at some point further back, in terms of the “Smash bubble”.

I don’t necessarily think the bubble tells us that certain highly wanted characters “aren’t actually wanted”. At least, that’s not how I’ve viewed it.

I’ve viewed it as, folks outside of the bubble, which accounts for much more than the hardcore fanbase, have a far different perspective. When at one point characters like Dante were considered a meme here (yes, that was a thing), he’s been a pretty sizable suggestion by folks for quite sometime outside of Smashboards and other sites.

So it’s never been that characters like Waluigi or Isaac aren’t popular. They are. It’s just that in the grand scheme of things, other characters who at one point weren’t a part of a conversation might have been looked at differently outside of hardcore fan forums.

In terms of the thing with TF2 and Heavy topping polls, that’s mainly exactly what happens when you spread a poll between fan sites and then...one very specific fan forum. It would happen with Dark Souls if you pushed for Solaire, it would probably happen with Fall Guys or Among Us, or many things if it were pushed into a subreddit or otherwise.

Don’t think it can be made much simpler than that.

Moral of the story- what the core fanbase wants/thinks is likely is probably different from what non-hardcore fans want to an extent, and personally, I think the core fanbase does push certain characters further than I think the outside audience thinks.

Like honestly, I am literally not trying to start **** with this next statement- and I’m aware it’s hyperbole- but almost anybody I talk to outside of my Smash community lads tends to want 3rd parties. Very few folks that I’ve talked to, who are outside the Smash core fanbase, want first parties.

It doesn’t mean anything in terms of likelihood, but more that THAT is what plenty of folks are wanting and it seems like it’s rarely talked about.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Like honestly, I am literally not trying to start **** with this next statement- and I’m aware it’s hyperbole- but almost anybody I talk outside of my Smash community lads tends to want 3rd parties. Very few folks that I’ve talked to, who are outside the Smash core fanbase, want first parties.

It doesn’t mean anything in terms of likelihood, but more that THAT is what plenty of folks are wanting and it seems like it’s rarely talked about.

You made some good points in that Jonespost, but... huh? Do you mean about the way casual fans want more third parties in relation to core fans or just people wanting third parties in general?

If it's the latter... how'd you reach that conclusion? Third parties have pretty much dominated DLC speculation since Volume 1, and it's pretty clear this is still the case now, even among core fans.

 

[SKX31]

Bold of you to assume I look at the CSS instead of just selecting the same few characters to play over and over.

Am Cloud main in Elite Smash territory.

Bold of you to assume I even glimpse at the CSS when I play the same character. Consistent 62-69 % combo strings at low %s FTW.

Long term there's something to be said for having a valuable online infrastructure that's worthwhile regardless of the strength or weakness of the console. And access to the backlog will be especially critical if/when certain exclusives lose some interest in the market. The brands still get big business and even a Genshin Impact is not going to replace a Zelda for now, but who's to say what kind of games and outlets could emerge as real competitors to Nintendo franchises within the next 20 years?

That's very much true: it's really difficult to say. Genshin Impact wasn't much as a blip on the radar 2 years ago, but now:

My report to clients today just said: "Weebs"

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) October 22, 2020

It's honestly really good to see GI turning out rather different from Zelda (although AFAIK it still shares some overlap) precisely because I initially was worried it would turn out to be a Zelda clone, and the company behind it has a history of taking inspiration so to speak.

It's almost assuredly not getting into Ultimate, but considering it'll get a Switch port soon... potential candidate for Smash 6 / 7?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Am Cloud main in Elite Smash territory.

Bold of you to assume I even glimpse at the CSS when I play the same character. Consistent 62-69 % combo strings at low %s FTW.



That's very much true: it's really difficult to say. Genshin Impact wasn't much as a blip on the radar 2 years ago, but now:

My report to clients today just said: "Weebs"

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) October 22, 2020

It's honestly really good to see GI turning out rather different from Zelda (although AFAIK it still shares some overlap) precisely because I initially was worried it would turn out to be a Zelda clone, and the company behind it has a history of taking inspiration so to speak.

It's almost assuredly not getting into Ultimate, but considering it'll get a Switch port soon... potential candidate for Smash 6 / 7?

All I know about Genshin is that people are uber horny for that Venti dude and that people seem to absolutely despise the game and will look for any reason to trash it for the horrible sin of being a Chinese game by people who're looking forward to the Harry Potter game

 

[Kriven]

This touches on pure marketing.
Do you aim to please the people you have and get repeat buys--
or do you aim to go big, and bring in a blue ocean of new clientele?

The very first rule of business is: "Don't screw your regulars."