Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Scoliosis Jones]

You made some good points in that Jonespost, but... huh? Do you mean about the way casual fans want more third parties in relation to core fans or just people wanting third parties in general?

If it's the latter... how'd you reach that conclusion? Third parties have pretty much dominated DLC speculation since Volume 1, and it's pretty clear this is still the case now, even among core fans.

If it wasn’t clear, mainly the fact that folks outside of the hardcore base focus on 3rd parties as opposed to 1st parties.

I didn’t mean that, you know, we don’t talk about 3rd parties. That wouldn’t be accurate in the slightest lol.

 

[SharkLord]

All I know about Genshin is that people are uber horny for that Venti dude and that people seem to absolutely despise the game and will look for any reason to trash it for the horrible sin of being a Chinese game by people who're looking forward to the Harry Potter game

I hear once someone was so mad at it's similarities to BotW that they smashed a PS4, which led to a headline that went something along the lines of "Chinese Breath of the Wild Ripoff Breaks PS4."
Keep in mind this was before it got a Switch port announced, so it evidently doesn't bother Nintendo.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I hear once someone was so mad at it's similarities to BotW that they smashed a PS4. Keep in mind this was before it got a Switch port announced, so it evidently doesn't bother Nintendo.

Ohhhh that was Genshin? **** dude that was almost as funny as the guy trashing his PC to protest Horizon Zero Dawn's PC port

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Fair enough, I'm just venting at how much I dislike Shadow Dragon DS as it's easily the worst FE game I've played

It's certainly the ugliest game in the series.

Like honestly, I am literally not trying to start **** with this next statement- and I’m aware it’s hyperbole- but almost anybody I talk outside of my Smash community lads tends to want 3rd parties. Very few folks that I’ve talked to, who are outside the Smash core fanbase, want first parties.

That's not really controversial. 3rd partys are hype, pure and simple. They often bring areas and character designs that are very different from the existing franchises, and depending on who they are, the characters themselves getting in can be a monumental occasion.

To contrast this, the 1st partys that can be added are B list at best (and even that's pretty arguable), and they're really only hype for those that already really like them or their series for a variety of reasons, not the least of which because they're from a series that has already crossed over in some fashion within the game.

At face value, 1st partys are inherently less interesting. That's not to say they aren't worthwhile or can't be interesting, but they are a harder sell. I mean just look at the rap sheet:
"Yay! Veteran!"
"Yay! Veteran!"
"Cool! Veteran!"
"Worst character."
"Worst character."
"Meh. Just glad it wasn't Springman."

 

[3BitSaurus]

If it wasn’t clear, mainly the fact that folks outside of the hardcore base focuses on 3rd parties as opposed to 1st parties.

I didn’t mean that, you know, we don’t talk about 3rd parties. That wouldn’t be accurate in the slightest lol.

I see. Certainly makes more sense now. Thanks for clarifying.

Tbh I think that's a consequence of a lot of them not being core Smash - or even core Nintendo fans. Maximillian Dood is a somewhat good example of this, I think - it's very clear that the biggest appeal Smash has to him is the third-party content, especially if it comes from Capcom or other fighting games, especially because he seems to be into other, non-Nintendo consoles way more.

Of course, I'm just spitballing here, but I think a non-negligible percent of casuals might be in a similar boat. Especially if their games of preference aren't on Nintendo consoles.

 

[Wigglerman]

Am Cloud main in Elite Smash territory.

Bold of you to assume I even glimpse at the CSS when I play the same character. Consistent 62-69 % combo strings at low %s FTW.



That's very much true: it's really difficult to say. Genshin Impact wasn't much as a blip on the radar 2 years ago, but now:

My report to clients today just said: "Weebs"

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) October 22, 2020

It's honestly really good to see GI turning out rather different from Zelda (although AFAIK it still shares some overlap) precisely because I initially was worried it would turn out to be a Zelda clone, and the company behind it has a history of taking inspiration so to speak.

It's almost assuredly not getting into Ultimate, but considering it'll get a Switch port soon... potential candidate for Smash 6 / 7?

I doubt they would get into Smash 6 or 7. This is an entirely new IP that will really need to test if it has any sort of staying power. While I find the game above average, it is STILL a gacha game at its core and isn't a standalone game (Relying on servers, so in some strange blend of mmo/online service/solo game with gacha elements).

If GI can be successful and stem out into true, standalone games without online necessity and gacha elements (Which I believe the series would be capable of if they can make good stories) then GI could be in the running for future Smash titles. Or it could be a flash in the pan and the series could die out in a couple years, servers shut down and the game vanishes from memory.

 

[The Prankster 16]

"Meh. Just glad it wasn't Springman."

I'd say the initial reaction of an ARMS character coming was that, but once herself was revealed, it was more of a "cool!"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hmm. This Genshin Impact game sounds pretty interesting. The idea of a more actiony version of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild sounds like a ton of fun.

...it is STILL a gacha game at its core...

Ah. Never mind.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I see. Certainly makes more sense now. Thanks for clarifying.

Tbh I think that's a consequence of a lot of them not being core Smash - or even core Nintendo fans. Maximillian Dood is a somewhat good example of this, I think - it's very clear that the biggest appeal Smash has to him is the third-party content, especially if it comes from Capcom or other fighting games, especially because he seems to be into other, non-Nintendo consoles way more.

Of course, I'm just spitballing here, but I think a non-negligible percent of casuals might be in a similar boat. Especially if their games of preference aren't on Nintendo consoles.

I think it’s also a consequence of the massive amount of Nintendo content already present in Smash.

Once again, no disrespect to the fans of the characters, but we have to compare what each pick would provide to the consumer. Some characters bring a new, crossover appeal addition and can spark the imagination or memory of playing said games. For example, if somebody has played Monster Hunter since it first released and it’s their favorite, and they really want to play as a Hunter, they might have popped off at Rathalos. But if they get Hunter? It’ll be something else entirely.

Now, look at something as fleshed out as Mario. We have tons of Mario. Several characters, several stages, tons of music. Now, Geno I could see bringing in “New!” Stuff because it’s Mario RPG. But Waluigi? I don’t know that a pack with him has that same draw of “New” aside from it being a new character. Obviously you can argue he’d have a “new” stage or new music, but compare that to an entirely new game/series crossing over, with Dream matchups within Smash we couldn’t have before.

At least, that’s what I assume a lot of it is. When the top 5 Nintendo characters are either 3rd-4th most important, or from essentially B-C tier franchises, and we already have a butt ton of stuff from those games? It’s realistic to see how those folks wouldn’t be as interested.

 

[3BitSaurus]

It's certainly the ugliest game in the series.


That's not really controversial. 3rd partys are hype, pure and simple. They often bring areas and character designs that are very different from the existing franchises, and depending on who they are, the characters themselves getting in can be a monumental occasion.

To contrast this, the 1st partys that can be added are B list at best (and even that's pretty arguable), and they're really only hype for those that already really like them or their series for a variety of reasons, not the least of which because they're from a series that has already crossed over in some fashion within the game.

At face value, 1st partys are inherently less interesting. That's not to say they aren't worthwhile or can't be interesting, but they are a harder sell. I mean just look at the rap sheet:
"Yay! Veteran!"
"Yay! Veteran!"
"Cool! Veteran!"
"Worst character."
"Worst character."
"Meh. Just glad it wasn't Springman."

Hard disagree, tbh. It seems like a harder sell, but that's only because they're not focusing on core fan requests. You know how they often balance characters popular in the core fanbase with less obvious choices?

I'd argue first parties are the best opportunity for the former, because for one you don't depend on another company to give rights, and for two those characters already have established fanbases, who are pretty much the people who would get the most excited about first parties. It's why you can often see people get hyped for returning veterans as DLC in other fighting games - even ones with guests, like SC and Samsho.

Like, there's no way you can convince me that the example list you gave would look the same if we got, say, Ridley or K. Rool replacing Corrin.

I think it’s also a consequence of the massive amount of Nintendo content already present in Smash.

Once again, no disrespect to the fans of the characters, but we have to compare what each pick would provide to the consumer. Some characters bring a new, crossover appeal addition and can spark the imagination or memory of playing said games. For example, if somebody has played Monster Hunter since it first released and it’s their favorite, and they really want to play as a Hunter, they might have popped off at Rathalos. But if they get Hunter? It’ll be something else entirely.

Now, look at something as fleshed out as Mario. We have tons of Mario. Several characters, several stages, tons of music. Now, Geno I could see bringing in “New!” Stuff because it’s Mario RPG. But Waluigi? I don’t know that a pack with him has that same draw of “New” aside from it being a new character. Obviously you can argue he’d have a “new” stage or new music, but compare that to an entirely new game/series crossing over, with Dream matchups within Smash we couldn’t have before.

At least, that’s what I assume a lot of it is. When the top 5 Nintendo characters are either 3-4 most important, or from essentially B-C tier franchises, and we already have a butt ton of stuff from those games? It’s realistic to see how those folks wouldn’t be as interested.

I find it interesting that you used MH as an example, because it highlights one thing: Smash is a character crossover game. I know "staring at the CSS" is memed to death, but to an extent it is true - playable characters are indeed what matters the most here. Like, for all intents and purposes, we already have MH, RE and NMH content in the game for example. But people aren't as satisfied because it's not a playable character.

So really, there's almost no difference, at least in concept, in making fans of these third parties happy or making fans of smaller, already represented Nintendo franchises/characters happy... except for potential sales figures.

If it sounds cold and corporate... it is. But I think aside from that, it's virtually the same situation.

 

[The Prankster 16]

But Waluigi? I don’t know that a pack with him has that same draw of “New” aside from it being a new character. Obviously you can argue he’d have a “new” stage or new music, but compare that to an entirely new game/series crossing over, with Dream matchups within Smash we couldn’t have before.

That's why I feel if Waluigi were to get in, he'd have to be as a sort of "extra" fighter, sort of like .
EDIT: Mabey as another limited time offer that become paid later on? Like if you already have the 2 fighters passes, then you get a code to redeem?

 

[SKX31]

I hear once someone was so mad at it's similarities to BotW that they smashed a PS4. Keep in mind this was before it got a Switch port announced, so it evidently doesn't bother Nintendo.

Ohhhh that was Genshin? **** dude that was almost as funny as the guy trashing his PC to protest Horizon Zero Dawn's PC port

Yes, it was that Genshin. And it was a Chinese fan thrashing his own PS4, at ChinaJoy (China's E3):

When Mihoyo unveiled Genshin Impact for PS4, many noted the game was inspired by BOTW.

Some fans of BOTW are upset that Sony is promoting this game because of the similarities + they think it’s shameless of Sony.

This man smashed his PS4 at ChinaJoy in protest. pic.twitter.com/jwJqwREgaz

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) August 3, 2019

Images from that convention also include scores of Chinese Zelda fans holding up Switches and middle fingers. The widespread practice of copying (especially from Tencent) has lead to a large portion of the Chinese hardcore hating that (like the general response to Pokemon Unite's unveiling). It even shows up in the Chinese nicknames:

CD Projekt Red, the Polish company behind Cyberpunk 2077 and The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, is often referred to by Chinese gamers as “The Dumb Polish Donkey.” While this nickname naturally comes across as extremely derogatory, it's actually an affectionate one.

The Dumb Polish Donkey is very popular among Chinese gamers in recent years. They gave CD Projekt Red this nickname to praise it for including an enormous amount of free, quality content in its last marquee game, The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt.

The nickname was also a response to many gaming companies in China that routinely churn out cheap, cash-grab titles. The name suggests CD Projekt Red is “dumb” like a tireless donkey, unlike all the “shrewd” Chinese gaming companies seen as exploitative and trying to profit from gamers at every turn.

I doubt they would get into Smash 6 or 7. This is an entirely new IP that will really need to test if it has any sort of staying power. While I find the game above average, it is STILL a gacha game at its core and isn't a standalone game (Relying on servers, so in some strange blend of mmo/online service/solo game with gacha elements).

If GI can be successful and stem out into true, standalone games without online necessity and gacha elements (Which I believe the series would be capable of if they can make good stories) then GI could be in the running for future Smash titles. Or it could be a flash in the pan and the series could die out in a couple years, servers shut down and the game vanishes from memory.

Yeah, that's a major problem. Even if the gacha is non-intrusive it still, well, is there. Shouldn't be entirely surprised since it's the same company behind Honkai Impact 3rd. And yeah, they'd have to show staying power for them to get in, that's very much true.

Still, a promising start and its own identity is much better than a Zelda clone.

That's why I feel if Waluigi were to get in, he'd have to be as a sort of "extra" fighter, sort of like .

Which is honestly a shame, because even with all the Mario stages in there still aren't many spin-off stages besides the two Mario Kart ones. There's a great opportunity to include a Mario Tennis / Waluigi Pinball stage with his hypotheoretical inclusion.

 

[Wigglerman]

Hmm. This Genshin Impact game sounds pretty interesting. The idea of a more actiony version of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild sounds like a ton of fun.

Ah. Never mind.

Let me make it clear, I hate Gacha games but the game itself is legitimately fun. It's, as you said, a very action oriented BotW. The story is interesting thus far, combat is fun and progression is fun. I've not paid anything and with the flow of stuff you get just by playing I've been doing more than fine and had a few non-story characters added to my roster.

Because it isn't some simple clicker or shallow game at its baseline and exploring is as fun as BotW and combating being far more engaging, the game has been super fun to play and I've not had any desire to spend any cash on it. Though if you are one who has tendencies to spend money on gacha stuff, then of course I'd not recommend it on those grounds alone.

 

[JCKirbs]

It's certainly the ugliest game in the series.


That's not really controversial. 3rd partys are hype, pure and simple. They often bring areas and character designs that are very different from the existing franchises, and depending on who they are, the characters themselves getting in can be a monumental occasion.

To contrast this, the 1st partys that can be added are B list at best (and even that's pretty arguable), and they're really only hype for those that already really like them or their series for a variety of reasons, not the least of which because they're from a series that has already crossed over in some fashion within the game.

At face value, 1st partys are inherently less interesting. That's not to say they aren't worthwhile or can't be interesting, but they are a harder sell. I mean just look at the rap sheet:
"Yay! Veteran!"
"Yay! Veteran!"
"Cool! Veteran!"
"Worst character."
"Worst character."
"Meh. Just glad it wasn't Springman."

Corrin - 3rd FE rep for a single Smash Bros. entry from a game which hadn't even touched the West at that time yet.

Byleth - 8th FE rep closing off a Fighter's Pass after the announcement of 4 ground-breaking 3rd Party characters and a sizable period of wait-time.

Min Min - Rep from a franchise which wasn't even entirely received well in the first place, only announced after a period of wait-time with the knowledge that a new fighter was coming from that franchise, bringing with them a unique but arguably awkward moveset. (But at least it wasn't Spring Man, and I'm still glad that a playable ARMS character made it in the game).

Considering that two of the 1st Party characters come from the most controversial 1st Party franchise in Smash, I'm not surprised that 1st Party characters as a whole would reach a caliber of being "less interesting" or a "harder sell" in the eyes of certain people. Although, I would imagine that certain people would have taken characters like Elma, Dixie Kong, or Bandana Dee over Corrin in a heartbeat. Alhough, I think that there would've been some form of controversy regardless if any 1st Party character finished off FP1 so perhaps I'll discard that one point for Byleth.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The very first rule of business is: "Don't screw your regulars."

Mortal Kombat knows this. They know about the hype of guests, but don't deny the core fanbase a chance to play as their fighters. In fact if some of you guys were in charge of MK9's DLC the non-guests would be rejected on account of:

• Kenshi not being from MK's golden era, thus less familiar
• Skarlet rumors not being as prominent as Ermac ones, who's already in the game
• Rain not actually being playable in the arcade version of UMK3, which more people would've played

And for the recent DLC, Mileena wouldn't get in because she's already represented and had an annoying Twitter fanbase.

 

[Goombaic]

In fact if some of you guys were in charge of MK9's DLC the non-guests would be rejected on account of:

• Kenshi not being from MK's golden era, thus less familiar
• Skarlet rumors not being as prominent as Ermac ones, who's already in the game
• Rain not actually being playable in the arcade version of UMK3, which more people would've played

And for the recent DLC, Mileena wouldn't get in because she's already represented and had an annoying Twitter fanbase.

Why do you love to dunk on people that don't exist.

 

[Deleted member]

With the recent news on 2 Fire Emblem games getting localized for a limited time, here's a reminder that Ultimate has yet to host a Fire Emblem themed Tourney.

 

[Spongeboob]

Even if the "Crash docs" are real (which itself is a lofty assumption), who's to say that they couldn't have been modified to add "Crash in Smash" when, in reality, none of the higher-ups at Activision-Blizzard had ever planned that? And how is getting into a crossover title "big"?

but considering it'll get a Switch port soon... potential candidate for Smash 6 / 7?

Every FRICKEN time something comes to Switch, let alone Nintendo, people are like this.

All I know about Genshin is that people are uber horny for that Venti dude and that people seem to absolutely despise the game and will look for any reason to trash it for the horrible sin of being a Chinese game by people who're looking forward to the Harry Potter game

I'm not too fond of China myself, but that's not why I'm not playing. I haven't picked up Genshin Impact because of the supposed anti-cheat system and even without it, I don't think my PC can handle it. I might pick it up on PS4 instead... is it worth getting on PS4?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

With the recent news on 2 Fire Emblem games getting localized for a limited time, here's a reminder that Ultimate has yet to host a Fire Emblem themed Tourney.

Watch as that’s one of the missing tournament IDs and then that’s it, no more FE characters for the duration of Ult’s DLC

Like I said though, I think for DLC they always pick the most recent FE game’s protagonist, I doubt they’d go back to an older title as those are more base game material

 

[Louie G.]

Why do you love to dunk on people that don't exist.

He's not entirely wrong, the Smash community makes up a lot of rules and standards that other fighting games just don't care about. Well, at least that's what I thought he meant. Maybe the point could have been made a little better but it's something I think about pretty often.

Case in point is MVC. MVC fans welcome and long for more Darkstalkers content despite its dormancy, but many Smash fans reject certain characters or series from getting more content because they're 'irrelevant' and whatnot. You have characters like Shuma Gorath in MVC from the near beginning, completely weird out of left field characters, but those characters in Smash are often received with skepticism or the ones that are already in seen as expendable. Many fighting games even have characters who are promoted from background elements or supporting roles, which many Smash fans see as a death sentence.

I'm not trying to generalize the entire community, I do think it's something that a lot of us tend to fall into though. This mindset that we know better or that we can write off this or that character because of a retrospectively arbitrary reason... how many people are so surprised when those original expectations and perceived rules are shattered. There are many sentiments about character selection and validity that I really only see in the Smash community.

Er, I may have tangented a bit. But yeah, I just think it's interesting the way certain sects of the community will write off characters on reasons that don't stack up in pretty much any other fighting game. Getting involved in other fighters has really opened my eyes to that.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Honestly, I personally hope Waluigi gets in, but I don't think it's happening this time. If we get an Assist Trophy Upgrade at all, it would probably be either Isaac or Alucard.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Once again, very happy about today's Fire Emblem news.

But I just gotta say, as a Mother fan, the only thing I want is for the trilogy to be bundled together for the Switch. That's all. Just the ability to officially play the three games in one place.

It sucks that Nintendo likely doesn't want to release Mother 3 due to the potential risk of a controversy, but I doubt there would be a controversy. Who is going to angrily complain about Mother 3?

Also, if the translation is an issue, they could literally just use the fan translation. I've talked to the director of that project, Clyde Mandelin, and that dude is fluent in Japanese and has tons of experience translating games.

SEGA does it. They allowed Christian Whitehead and other fans to largely control the development of Sonic Mania. Why Nintendo gotta be so stubborn???

--------------------------

Rant over. I get it, Mother 3 is never coming out. The reasons why will never make sense to me, but I guarantee you if an official localization ever got announced, it would blow up and get lots of buzz. Just saying.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Mortal Kombat is also not a mascot crossover title and isn’t really comparable to Smash in that regard.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He's not entirely wrong, the Smash community makes up a lot of rules and standards that other fighting games just don't care about. Well, at least that's what I thought he meant. Maybe the point could have been made a little better but it's something I think about pretty often.

Case in point is MVC. MVC fans welcome and long for more Darkstalkers content despite its dormancy, but many Smash fans reject certain characters or series from getting more content because they're 'irrelevant' and whatnot. You have characters like Shuma Gorath in MVC from the near beginning, completely weird out of left field characters, but those characters in Smash are often received with skepticism or the ones that are already in seen as expendable. Many fighting games even have characters who are promoted from background elements or supporting roles, which many Smash fans see as a death sentence.

I'm not trying to generalize the entire community, I do think it's something that a lot of us tend to fall into though. This mindset that we know better or that we can write off this or that character because of a retrospectively arbitrary reason... how many people are so surprised when those original expectations and perceived rules are shattered. There are many sentiments about character selection and validity that I really only see in the Smash community.

Er, I may have tangented a bit. But yeah, I just think it's interesting the way certain sects of the community will write off characters on reasons that don't stack up in pretty much any other fighting game. Getting involved in other fighters has really opened my eyes to that.

I fail to see how this wall of text at all makes sense when the context is a guy pretending people in this thread try to think of excuses to cut veterans

 

[Schnee117]

Gotta make **** up and project it on other people because they dare think differently to you because you're that ****ing insecure I guess.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Watch as that’s one of the missing tournament IDs and then that’s it, no more FE characters for the duration of Ult’s DLC

Like I said though, I think for DLC they always pick the most recent FE game’s protagonist, I doubt they’d go back to an older title as those are more base game material

They especially wouldn't go back to an older title that already has its main character in the game.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I could be wrong, but I feel as though some comparisons between the biggest crossover in gaming history (potentially media history?) and other fighting games don’t exactly work.

They aren’t designed in the same way. Mortal Kombat has original characters, while Smash pulls from existing IP in the industry.

Smash and Mortal Kombat are fighting games, yes. But I gotta say I think the comparisons end there.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

He's not entirely wrong, the Smash community makes up a lot of rules and standards that other fighting games just don't care about. Well, at least that's what I thought he meant. Maybe the point could have been made a little better but it's something I think about pretty often.

Case in point is MVC. MVC fans welcome and long for more Darkstalkers content despite its dormancy, but many Smash fans reject certain characters or series from getting more content because they're 'irrelevant' and whatnot. You have characters like Shuma Gorath in MVC from the near beginning, completely weird out of left field characters, but those characters in Smash are often received with skepticism or the ones that are already in seen as expendable. Many fighting games even have characters who are promoted from background elements or supporting roles, which many Smash fans see as a death sentence.

I'm not trying to generalize the entire community, I do think it's something that a lot of us tend to fall into though. This mindset that we know better or that we can write off this or that character because of a retrospectively arbitrary reason... how many people are so surprised when those original expectations and perceived rules are shattered. There are many sentiments about character selection and validity that I really only see in the Smash community.

Er, I may have tangented a bit. But yeah, I just think it's interesting the way certain sects of the community will write off characters on reasons that don't stack up in pretty much any other fighting game. Getting involved in other fighters has really opened my eyes to that.

Marvel Vs. Capcom has a very different scope from Super Smash Bros. Its limited to just Marvel and Capcom characters, so it's kind of a given that people are going to want their favorites from the depths of the two companies's histories regardless of how obscure they may be at the moment.

Even so, it's not really correct that Super Smash Bros. fans dislike obscure characters either. One of the communities's favorite characters is Captain Falcon for crying out loud. Generally, he only time relevance comes into play as a point against a character is when discussing likelihood. I've only heard like, a single person who has said that they didn't want/like a character because they're irrelevant or don't have much legacy.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I could be wrong, but I feel as though some comparisons between the biggest crossover in gaming history (potentially media history?) and other fighting games don’t exactly work.

They aren’t designed in the same way. Mortal Kombat has original characters, while Smash pulls from existing IP in the industry.

Smash and Mortal Kombat are fighting games, yes. But I gotta say I think the comparisons end there.

Mortal Kombat has pretty much become the movie version of Smash Bros. feat MK characters in recent times though. From Freddy and Jason to Robocop and the Terminator, Captain Kirk and Darth Vader, Lopan, Superman, every single Power Ranger, Bill S. Preston and Theodore Logan, Spock, The Rock, Doc Oc and Hulk Hogan. It's got a handful of wacky dream matchups itself, hell, they even have Joker too.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Corrin - 3rd FE rep for a single Smash Bros. entry from a game which hadn't even touched the West at that time yet.

Byleth - 8th FE rep closing off a Fighter's Pass after the announcement of 4 ground-breaking 3rd Party characters and a sizable period of wait-time.

Min Min - Rep from a franchise which wasn't even entirely received well in the first place, only announced after a period of wait-time with the knowledge that a new fighter was coming from that franchise, bringing with them a unique but arguably awkward moveset. (But at least it wasn't Spring Man, and I'm still glad that a playable ARMS character made it in the game).

Considering that two of the 1st Party characters come from the most controversial 1st Party franchise in Smash, I'm not surprised that 1st Party characters as a whole would reach a caliber of being "less interesting" or a "harder sell" in the eyes of certain people. Although, I would imagine that certain people would have taken characters like Elma, Dixie Kong, or Bandana Dee over Corrin in a heartbeat. Alhough, I think that there would've been some form of controversy regardless if any 1st Party character finished off FP1 so perhaps I'll discard that one point for Byleth.

See this is exactly my problem. First Party characters aren't allowed to experiment in the DLC. They can't be super fan requests like Waluigi, they can't be moderate requests like Dixie Kong or Bandana Dee, they can't be NPC promotions like an AT such as Isaac. They always have to be from the most recent games to "shill", for lack of a better term. Im not saying it to make a fan-rule, but as an observation of a pattern.

If the DLC Fighter Pass 1 was only first parties, but was as diverse and varied as Melee's, Brawl's, 4's, and Ultimate's Base roster of Nintendo characters it would have been DEFIENTLY well recieved. It wouldn't have crashed Twitter like Steve did, and it wouldn't have gotten a reaction like that Sans reveal at NY Store, but to pretend everyone would have yawned for Nintendo characters as DLC is bull.

Ridley was the Newcomer highlight of E3 of Smash Ultimate, not the Belmonts. and even when the Belmonts got announced at the Smash Direct, i would argue K.Rool stole the show for himself. Isabelle may have been meh for the hardcore members here, but for the "normie" or "outsider" crowd (the one that certain speculators fetishize and weaponize to use against characters normally talked about by hardcore speculators) she was welcomed with open arms, I could go on with the Smash 4 newcomers as well but that would be a wall of text.

We aren't allowed to think about Nitnendo characters outside of "recent face of recent game", which limits our choices drastically. And don't tell they woulnd't sell or that Nintendo would not be interesed in selling them, Nintendo sold us a ****ing Plant (and im on the belief that PP was MEANT to be a Base game character, doesn't change the fact that the end product ended up being sold separately) so i don't see why selling us a character like Bandanna Dee is too out of the question.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Besides the point any Marvel vs Capcom acknowledgement would be amazing in Smash.

 

[Schnee117]

I could be wrong, but I feel as though some comparisons between the biggest crossover in gaming history (potentially media history?) and other fighting games don’t exactly work.

They aren’t designed in the same way. Mortal Kombat has original characters, while Smash pulls from existing IP in the industry.

Smash and Mortal Kombat are fighting games, yes. But I gotta say I think the comparisons end there.

Mortal Kombat's nature also massively narrows down the potential guest characters by a lot, you're not gonna see Mario, Mickey Mouse, Pac-Man or Sonic brutally killing (or being killed by) other characters outside of fan animations.
There's also the matter of most of Mortal Kombat's core playerbase having grown up watching those 80's horror and action films so the fact you can do Alien v Predator in MKX or Terminator v RoboCop in MK11 is still a big thing for them. Hell, Spawn was a long time request too.

 

[P.Kat]

Watch as that’s one of the missing tournament IDs and then that’s it, no more FE characters for the duration of Ult’s DLC

Like I said though, I think for DLC they always pick the most recent FE game’s protagonist, I doubt they’d go back to an older title as those are more base game material

If they did it'd most likely be Lyn, due to her popularity.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Besides the point any Marvel vs Capcom acknowledgement would be amazing in Smash.

I mean, Mega Man's up tilt, Ryu's Palutena Guidance and Ken's Shinryuken are MvC shoutouts iirc

 

[SKX31]

They especially wouldn't go back to an older title that already has its main character in the game.

MARTH 2 - ELECTRIC BOO oh wait

Mortal Kombat's nature also massively narrows down the potential guest characters by a lot, you're not gonna see Mario, Mickey Mouse, Pac-Man or Sonic brutally killing (or being killed by) other characters outside of fan animations.
There's also the matter of most of Mortal Kombat's core playerbase having grown up watching those 80's horror and action films so the fact you can do Alien v Predator in MKX or Terminator v RoboCop in MK11 is still a big thing for them. Hell, Spawn was a long time request too.

TBF a lot of those 80s horror and action films still have some relevancy (although granted, they're far from as relevant as their peak) by virtue of a lot of them being considered classics and the like (or just "cheesy horror / action flick from that era"). So a lot of teens / young adults born later (turn of the millenium / bit after that) would have exposure to those characters.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I mean, Mega Man's up tilt, Ryu's Palutena Guidance and Ken's Shinryuken are MvC shoutouts iirc

PHYSICALLY!

 

[Dinoman96]

See this is exactly my problem. First Party characters aren't allowed to experiment in the DLC. They can't be super fan requests like Waluigi, they can't be moderate requests like Dixie Kong or Bandana Dee, they can't be NPC promotions like an AT such as Isaac. They always have to be from the most recent games to "shill", for lack of a better term. Im not saying it to make a fan-rule, but as an observation of a pattern.

If the DLC Fighter Pass 1 was only first parties, but was as diverse and varied as Melee's, Brawl's, 4's, and Ultimate's Base roster of Nintendo characters it would have been DEFIENTLY well recieved. It wouldn't have crashed Twitter like Steve did, and it wouldn't have gotten a reaction like that Sans reveal at NY Store, but to pretend everyone would have yawned for Nintendo characters as DLC is bull.

Ridley was the Newcomer highlight of E3 of Smash Ultimate, not the Belmonts. and even when the Belmonts got announced at the Smash Direct, i would argue K.Rool stole the show for himself. Isabelle may have been meh for the hardcore members here, but for the "normie" or "outsider" crowd (the one that certain speculators fetishize and weaponize to use against characters normally talked about by hardcore speculators) she was welcomed with open arms, I could go on with the Smash 4 newcomers as well but that would be a wall of text.

We aren't allowed to think about Nitnendo characters outside of "recent face of recent game", which limits our choices drastically. And don't tell they woulnd't sell or that Nintendo would not be interesed in selling them, Nintendo sold us a ****ing Plant (and im on the belief that PP was MEANT to be a Base game character, doesn't change the fact that the end product ended up being sold separately) so i don't see why selling us a character like Bandanna Dee is too out of the question.

Some of us are just trying to be realistic here lol

I just really see how someone can look at and be like "aw yeah, waluigi and dixie kong are sure to be in!". Those kind of characters just don't really fit with the current DLC model for the Fighters Passes, unfortunately.

 

[Schnee117]

TBF a lot of those 80s horror and action films still have some relevancy (although granted, they're far from as relevant as their peak) by virtue of a lot of them being considered classics and the like (or just "cheesy horror / action flick"). So a lot of teens / young adults born later (turn of the millenium / bit after that) would have exposure to those characters.

Yeah but my main point is they appeal to the core fanbase that's been with the series since it started too.

 

[cashregister9]

PHYSICALLY!

Ryu Ken and Megaman all appear in the game

I agree with you though, Some music would be nice, Same with SNK Vs Capcom. both of those series have absoulte bangers.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

PHYSICALLY!

The **** you physically, like, you expect the game to come with a free MvC copy? Two of those are attacks