Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SharkLord]

An interesting implication regarding the voice lines is that it suggests who might not be playable. Unless we get a character with 3 or more voice lines, we won't be getting characters who are voiceless. This probably means we won't be getting characters like Bandana Waddle Dee (although some games like to give him a little squeak) unfortunately. And there other popular characters this rules out too imo

Or multiple characters have more than one voice lists.

 

[DuskFleur]

In regards to the voice lines thing, it reminds me of my desire to see Roxas be an alt or Echo for Sora (if he’s actually confirmed, of course). Considering how DLC so far hasn’t included any Echoes, I’d assume (hypothetically speaking) Roxas would be an alt like the Koopalings, opposite sex versions of certain characters, and so forth. Logically it’d make sense; Roxas IS Sora. Well, kind of? Explaining it any further would probably melt the brains of anyone uninitiated to KH. The lore is super convoluted.

Regardless, I wanna believe~~~

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

LMAOOOO the stage thing wasn’t the only glitch associated with steve

Next character is based off of Steve confirmed.

Logically it’d make sense; Roxas IS Sora. Well, kind of? Explaining it any further would probably melt the brains of anyone uninitiated to KH.

Is is because Darkness?

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Is is because Darkness?

Ish.

Spoiler: Text Block of Kingdom Hearts spoilers, I guess

Roxas essentially is Sora's body without Sora's soul, because Sora split the two to release Kairi's soul from Sora's body (why it's in there, idk). The body without a soul is called a nobody, just for future reference. Roxas grows his own soul (because that's a thing that happens in Kingdom Hearts). Sora's soul and temporary body are asleep for a year because Roxas is running around, and so by the time Roxas comes back to where Sora's soul is sleeping, he's a totally original person inhabiting the original's (Sora's) body. Because Sora is the destined savior of the universe, Roxas has to give up his body, which is also Sora's, so that Sora can wake up and save the universe. For some reason, Sora has a second body, though, so the only reason he can't wake up isn't actually because of Roxas' body, but because of a few memories that are stuck to his old body because of some witchcraft that Kairi's nobody performs because she's jealous of Kairi. Yeah, that's right. Kairi also has a nobody, and she also has a second body, so there's two of her running around too. After the merger, Roxas and Kairi's nobody end up as souls just sitting inside Sora and Kairi with no bodies of their own, waiting until someone decides they deserve to be their own people and find a way to create artificial bodies so they can properly live again.

Darkness is the reason Sora has to save the universe, so saying "because darkness" is perfectly acceptable.

 

[SnowClaws]

I missed the Shantae discussion from a few days ago(?), so I want to informed people about this small portion from the interview with Matt Bozon that explain how Shantae ends up as a spirit in Smash.

How did Shantae end up as a Spirit in Super Smash Bros Ultimate and how much input did you have on it?

Bozon: We’ve been working with Nintendo for something like 25 years, and they know that we’re diehard fans. In this case we just sent over some artwork to be used at their discretion, on the off chance they could include her in some way. We didn’t know that she’d be a Spirit, or even what a Spirit was! We were shocked to see Shantae show up during a Smash Direct. It was awesome! Before that moment, we didn’t know any details. In cases like that, our M.O. is to zip it and wait.

Source (Siliconera, 6/8/2020): Shantae Creator Matt Bozon Talks Shantae's Past, Present, and Future

So yeah, Shantae was never meant to be a Smash fighter and Wayforward wasn't even informed she herself was going to made a appearance in Smash. This small details could shines some light on how Nintendo choose a character as whether as a playable fighter or a spirit. Though maybe Nintendo changed their mind during these two years and may consider to upgrade some spirit(s) to be a playable fighter like they did with Min Min.

 

[Powerman293]

And what a fantastic video it was! Loved the overall coverage and editing. Even watching it back again takes me right back to when it was all going down.

Don't forget to watch Parts 2 and 3

 

[rychu_supadude]

Like
I know about the Grinch Leak
But people talk about it as if it was ****ing Vietnam
And what the %$#@ is an ESRB leak

I know everyone else has already piled on to explain, but the ESRB leak is the entire reason that the Grinch hoax was able to gain traction in the first place. With the majority of the community having devoted their time and energy into "debunking" some blurry images on 4chan that turned out to be 100% real, the fact that a similar scenario had legitimately happened for the previous game was at the top of their minds, and they either consciously or subconsciously thought "SURELY I won't get caught out and be on the wrong side of history this time!" Once bitten, twice burned, thrice shy.

Well, that and confirmation bias because both scenarios were filled with people trying to prove the outcome that matched their dream roster.

 

[Will]

Said this before, but one of my big disappointments with World of Light is that we'll never get to see all these new characters having Subspace-levels of interaction.

And it came with voice acting, so we'll never hear Smash Zelda's voice actor speak anything that wasn't the one sentence in the opening cutscene. Lots of these characters have untapped potential just because they haven't said anything. Could've had a lot of interactions, but hey, those voices probably expensive as hell to grab for multiple languages.

Have you ever heard Lucas's voice actress speak an actual line? He sounds like a baby, it's ****ing hilarious. Look up the stuff people request from Lani Minella, some of that **** is gold.

 

[XorahnGaia]

You know, I watched the DidYouKnowGamimg Video about Ultimate's Rumors and Leaks (which by the way is actually quite well done and informative), and it brought to my attention a detail about the Cacomallow "leak" that kinda went by the wayside.

Now I know that criticizing Cacomallow outside the Geno thread is almost like shooting on the Red Cross at this point, but I gotta ask: What was up with Ken's Shoryuken in that video? Like, the simple explanation at the time was that, since it allegedly was a development build of a future update, the move was going to be slightly nerfed, but not only did that didn't wind up to be true, but the Shoryuken wasn't touched at all in the updates that followed the leak.

Of course, since it was still a development build maybe it was just a consequence of the balance team trying new things out... but I honestly doubt this because Ken didn't receive many nerf (if at all) in the following updates, and even then why test something like this using Mii costumes that are almost a year away?

What I am getting at is, while we could make many assumptions about why the Shoryuken did less damage in that video, is very immediate to see that whoever made the hoax wanted to imply that in the near future Ken was going to be nerfed in a balance patch.
It's undeniable that at this point the only thing that keeps the Cacomallow "leak" alive (other than sheer wishful thinking) is the ambiguity surrounding how far in advance the DLC Mii costumes are made and simply put I don't think that a phantom balance change that didn't end up happening does any good to this notion. And of course, I doubt that balance changes are done more than a year in advance considering that they are supposed to be very reactive towards players' feedback.

I fully admit that I'm fully ignorant on how Ultimate balance is handled, but I thought this was something that was worth bringing up.

 

[Will]

What I am getting at is, while we could make many assumptions about why the Shoryuken did less damage in that video, is very immediate to see that whoever made the hoax wanted to imply that in the near future Ken was going to be nerfed in a balance patch.
It's undeniable that at this point the only thing that keeps the Cacomallow "leak" alive (other than sheer wishful thinking) is the ambiguity surrounding how far in advance the DLC Mii costumes are made and simply put I don't think that a phantom balance change that didn't end up happening doesn't do any good to this notion. And of course, I doubt that balance changes are done more than a year in advance considering that they are supposed to be very reactive towards players' feedback.

I fully admit that I'm fully ignorant on how Ultimate balance is handled, but I thought this was something that was worth bringing up.

Obviously damage control. How do you fool everyone into thinking the leak is fake when it says it nerfs Ken? Buff Ken in literally every other upcoming patch. Boom, just like that, the crisis is averted.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You know, I watched the DidYouKnowGamimg Video about Ultimate's Rumors and Leaks (which by the way is actually quite well done and informative), and it brought to my attention a detail about the Cacomallow "leak" that kinda went by the wayside.

Now I know that criticizing Cacomallow outside the Geno thread is almost like shooting on the Red Cross at this point, but I gotta ask: What was up with Ken's Shoryuken in that video? Like, the simple explanation at the time was that, since it allegedly was a development build of a future update, the move was going to be slightly nerfed, but not only did that didn't wind up to be true, but the Shoryuken wasn't touched at all in the updates that followed the leak.

Of course, since it was still a development build maybe it was just a consequence of the balance team trying new things out... but I honestly doubt this because Ken didn't receive many nerf (if at all) in the following updates, and even then why test something like this using Mii costumes that are almost a year away?

What I am getting at is, while we could make many assumptions about why the Shoryuken did less damage in that video, is very immediate to see that whoever made the hoax wanted to imply that in the near future Ken was going to be nerfed in a balance patch.
It's undeniable that at this point the only thing that keeps the Cacomallow "leak" alive (other than sheer wishful thinking) is the ambiguity surrounding how far in advance the DLC Mii costumes are made and simply put I don't think that a phantom balance change that didn't end up happening doesn't do any good to this notion. And of course, I doubt that balance changes are done more than a year in advance considering that they are supposed to be very reactive towards players' feedback.

I fully admit that I'm fully ignorant on how Ultimate balance is handled, but I thought this was something that was worth bringing up.

The true answer is that it's fake, if you can **** around with the textures and freeze the timer, you can probably **** around with damage values, meaning that there's 4 core pieces of evidence that it's fake, the fsvt it's literally a few weeks away from being a year old with no fruition, Shoryuken never being despite the whole ****ing thing popped up mere days before Terry came out meaning they'd have to work on balance and go "**** nvm guys it's good", the fact Nintendo never tried taking it down despite gladly doing so for every real leak and how the timer's merely frozen when he know for a fact that the debug mode timer looks different

 

[NintenRob]

Or multiple characters have more than one voice lists.

Right that too. That probably makes more sense than 1 character having 3 or 4. (Although we did get Hero with 4)

 

[TwiceEXE]

Now I know that criticizing Cacomallow outside the Geno thread is almost like shooting on the Red Cross at this point, but I gotta ask: What was up with Ken's Shoryuken in that video? Like, the simple explanation at the time was that, since it allegedly was a development build of a future update, the move was going to be slightly nerfed, but not only did that didn't wind up to be true, but the Shoryuken wasn't touched at all in the updates that followed the leak.

Forgive me if I'm totally off base here, but could the damage difference not be accounted for by staling? Not that I want to entertain Cacomallow at all.

 

[XorahnGaia]

Forgive me if I'm totally off base here, but could the damage difference not be accounted for by staling? Not that I want to entertain Cacomallow at all.

I do remember that when the hoax was fresh a dataminer or whatever confirmed that there was no situation where the Shoryuken did that specific amount of damage... but again, I'm not exactly an expert on this kind of technical details, so you'll have to ask someone else for a definitive answer.

 

[PeridotGX]

Hack client version of Steve. You just move by the opponent and they die.

Instead of using the typical CPU engine for Popbob, they chose the highly advanced Baritone, trained on hundreds of hours of Minecraft and 2b2t.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Something I'm a bit curious about: wasn't there some information about Bomberman being considered, but Sakurai and Konami were unable to reach an agreement regarding his moveset?

Tbh, I remember reading that somewhere, but I don't know the source or how legitimate it is. Does anyone remember this? Was it a Famitsu article?

 

[NotGenerico]

The ID for Steve's tournament turned out to be 4031. We all began speculating that we were getting a new character soon because the tournament labeled as 4029 was skipped, but that one still hasn't shown up yet. Steve's tournament was skipped anyway and we had 4032 before it, so Steve was still delayed for a bit, but not as much as I thought.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Oh yeah since we know there's a 3D Kirby Game Coming thanks to Fighters 2's Datamine, there's a good chance that game's Main Villain could get into Smash. In that case, there's a character with no voice right there. So I think one of the next four will likely have a ridiculous amount of Voice Work done for them.

 

[Dinoman96]

Something I'm a bit curious about: wasn't there some information about Bomberman being considered, but Sakurai and Konami were unable to reach an agreement regarding his moveset?

Tbh, I remember reading that somewhere, but I don't know the source or how legitimate it is. Does anyone remember this? Was it a Famitsu article?

Don't think there's any truth to that.

I honestly just don't think Sakurai/Nintendo were interested in making him playable. Whether it'd be because they couldn't figure out a moveset for him or just didn't think he was important enough to be priortised for it.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

1992年のきょう『スーパーマリオランド2 6つの金貨』発売。
ワリオが初登場した作品です。 pic.twitter.com/F0o7Xg84G5

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) October 21, 2020

Caption this

OBEY WARIO
DESTROY MARIO

 

[osby]

Oh yeah since we know there's a 3D Kirby Game Coming thanks to Fighters 2's Datamine, there's a good chance that game's Main Villain could get into Smash. In that case, there's a character with no voice right there. So I think one of the next four will likely have a ridiculous amount of Voice Work done for them.

I really doubt that. Why would Nintendo pick a villain to promote a game when Kirby is right there? The only instances Smash added characters from unreleased games were protagonists who's games had zero fighters in Smash.

Not every upcoming game is gonna get a newcomer in Smash.

 

[SKX31]

The ID for Steve's tournament turned out to be 4031. We all began speculating that we were getting a new character soon because the tournament labeled as 4029 was skipped, but that one still hasn't shown up yet. Steve's tournament was skipped anyway and we had 4032 before it, so Steve was still delayed for a bit, but not as much as I thought.

Looks at Minecon.

Don't think there's any truth to that.

I honestly just don't think Sakurai/Nintendo were interested in making him playable. Whether it'd be because they couldn't figure out a moveset for him or just didn't think he was important enough to be priortised for it.

I could honestly see Sakurai / Nintendo at least entertaining the idea of a playable Bomberman... I do think there'd be a problem if Sakurai prioritized the standard top-down formula (with the huge explosions) though. Those huge explosions could be a potential nightmare to properly balance, either casually (where a lot of people would have no idea how to react to the explosions period) or competitively (where people would figure out how to avoid them, but those giant flaming plusses take up so much stage that Bomberman becomes really difficult to play against).

It's not the only way to design Bomberman, no. But there were so many top-down Bomberman games in Japan that I can imagine it'd be difficult for Sakurai to figure out another way.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh yeah since we know there's a 3D Kirby Game Coming thanks to Fighters 2's Datamine, there's a good chance that game's Main Villain could get into Smash.

Ahem...

 

[3BitSaurus]

I could honestly see Sakurai / Nintendo at least entertaining the idea of a playable Bomberman... I do think there'd be a problem if Sakurai prioritized the standard top-down formula (with the huge explosions) though. Those huge explosions could be a potential nightmare to properly balance, either casually (where a lot of people would have no idea how to react to the explosions period) or competitively (where people would figure out how to avoid them, but those giant flaming plusses take up so much stage that Bomberman becomes really difficult to play against).

It's not the only way to design Bomberman, no. But there were so many top-down Bomberman games in Japan that I can imagine it'd be difficult for Sakurai to figure out another way.

If I didn't already want Bomberman as playable, I'd certainly want him after your post.

Can't wait for the huge, half-FD-wide cross-shaped explosions. And when your opponent whines, you just tell them "you should have reacted".

 

[JOJONumber691]

I really doubt that. Why would Nintendo pick a villain to promote a game when Kirby is right there? The only instances Smash added characters from unreleased games were protagonists who's games had zero fighters in Smash.

Not every upcoming game is gonna get a newcomer in Smash.

Ahem...

Okay, and there's literally nothing else we know of that would also apply in this way. So, you want to make a Bet? Also, Dee can't apply unless he gets something EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to this game. I would prefer Dee, sure, but I've accepted whoever this new Villain is, would get in over Dee.

 

[osby]

I could honestly see Sakurai / Nintendo at least entertaining the idea of a playable Bomberman... I do think there'd be a problem if Sakurai prioritized the standard top-down formula (with the huge explosions) though. Those huge explosions could be a potential nightmare to properly balance, either casually (where a lot of people would have no idea how to react to the explosions period) or competitively (where people would figure out how to avoid them, but those giant flaming plusses take up so much stage that Bomberman becomes really difficult to play against).

It's not the only way to design Bomberman, no. But there were so many top-down Bomberman games in Japan that I can imagine it'd be difficult for Sakurai to figure out another way.

Not gonna lie, it's really hard gor me to take "Sakurai can't find a moveset for thid character other than this specific example" arguments seriously after how much artistic license he took for fighters like Joker, and Steve in Smash is something that exists.

If Bomberman isn't playable, I think it's far likely that he just got outprioritized.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

To me its not hard to look at just the Bomberman 64 games and get a pretty reasonable moveset out of them.

 

[osby]

Okay, and there's literally nothing else we know of that would also apply in this way.

There is nothing that suggests we will get a voiceless character, though. Even if we do get one, there are quite a few options beside Kirby.

So, you want to make a Bet? Also, Dee can't apply unless he gets something EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to this game. I would prefer Dee, sure, but I've accepted whoever this new Villain is, would get in over Dee.

I mean, when we got a villain of an upcoming game over a playable character?

 

[JOJONumber691]

There is nothing that suggests we will get a voiceless character, though. Even if we do get one, there are quite a few options beside Kirby.



I mean, when we got a villain of an upcoming game over a playable character?

Considering how Kirby is with Bonus Content, they could potentially be playable in the Post Game.

 

[PeridotGX]

I'm struggling to think of a character who would have 3 voices. 2? Easy. 4? There are options. But specifically 3?

 

[RileyXY1]

I'm struggling to think of a character who would have 3 voices. 2? Easy. 4? There are options. But specifically 3?

I can't think of anything either due to all characters having 8 alts, but Steve shows that alts don't need to have the same number of recolors as each other.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Sora, Young Sora, and Roxas.

 

[Aerospherology]

Oh yeah since we know there's a 3D Kirby Game Coming thanks to Fighters 2's Datamine, there's a good chance that game's Main Villain could get into Smash. In that case, there's a character with no voice right there. So I think one of the next four will likely have a ridiculous amount of Voice Work done for them.

Accepting impossibilities I see?

 

[RileyXY1]

Having 3 different alts with voices requires two characters to have three recolors and the third to only have 2. I don't know a lot of characters that can do this, but doing this would require the implementation of another voiceless fighter.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Another possibility could be Makoto and Najime being skins, but Komeda showing up for the Last Alt.

 

[cashregister9]

Sora, Young Sora, and Roxas.

Instead of Young Sora replace it with Xion

 

[SKX31]

Not gonna lie, it's really hard gor me to take "Sakurai can't find a moveset for thid character other than this specific example" arguments seriously after how much artistic license he took for fighters like Joker, and Steve in Smash is something that exists.

If Bomberman isn't playable, I think it's far likely that he just got outprioritized.

Not entirely the point I was trying to make (albeit I should've been more clear here) - although yes, it's rather likely he got out-prioritized. I could imagine the moveset woes not helping Bomberman's case - they'd have to pull a lot more moves from the spin off games to compensate. It's far from impossible to design a viable Bomberman moveset, but Sakurai and co chose the perhaps-easier-to-design Belmonts where you can just slap a number of projectiles onto the B button, add a whip for extra ledgetrapping (what Sakurai and co. seems to love the most nowadays, just look at Byleth, Min Min and Steve) and hit frappé.

I'm struggling to think of a character who would have 3 voices. 2? Easy. 4? There are options. But specifically 3?

Outside of Kingdom Hearts one has to look at the games that lean most on the Internet I'd imagine. The reason I'm saying that is since a lot of Internet-based games introduce skins with voice changes, so characters wind up with 2+ alts with voice changes.

Not just thinking LoL here (although that's a possibility since a lot of LoL characters have 2+ alts with voice changes) - (World of) Warcraft has a number of characters that could hypotheoretically have a WarCraft III, WoW and a Hearthstone alt respectively (or changing that around a bit, like Classic WoW, Modern WoW and Hearthstone). While I haven't played PSO at all, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it has a character with 3 voices.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Sora, Young Sora, and Roxas.

Young Sora as in KH1 sora or Young Sora as in "When he got ventus" sora?

 

[JOJONumber691]

Young Sora as in KH1 sora or Young Sora as in "When he got ventus" sora?

KH1

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So you know that POTD? Found what it may actually be referencing.

CRASH CONFIRMED BABY