Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[JOJONumber691]

Unless they decide to make some Echo Fighters after the pass as their own separate purchases, I don't see it happening.

Please be the case I want the Octolings BADLY!

While I suppose it's possible that we get an echo with a newcomer, I don't find it probable. Idk what the quote about the separate echo packs is, but when describing the Challenger Packs back in the Smash Ultimate Direct before the first game, it was stated that each Challenger Pack would include 1 fighter, 1 stage, and multiple music tracks:

View attachment 289701​

Terry's 50 tracks and Hero's 8 both fit into this, but a second fighter (even an Echo Fighter) in the same pack would not. Now, this isn't bulletproof -- this was stated at the time FP1 was chosen, not FP2, but the fact that FP2 is being marketed as more Challenger Packs with the numbering continuing right where FP1 left off makes me think the same structure is likely to apply. Which is why I find it possible, but not probable -- if Nintendo wants to add more to a pack than what they laid out initially, they certainly can, but I guess we'll see how it ends up.

Nice of you to stay open. We'll wait and see as the only two characters I could see getting this treatment are Crash and Isaac with Coco and Felix respectively, so it could definitely happen. We'll wait and see though.

 

[MisterMike]

Please be the case I want the Octolings BADLY!

I'm more pulling for Dixie Kong, Medusa and Black Shadow myself, but yeah, Octoling would be great also.
But I have a question: How do you think they'd make the ink mechanic work to avoid it clashing with Inklings? For instance, there's already an alt that uses the same shade of pink for their ink that the Octolings typically use, so if the Pink Inking (the Pinkling, if you will) and the Octoling fire ink, how will you be able to tell which is which?

 

[Knight Dude]

Dropping in on the Steve discussion while it's still lukewarm.

Part of the anti-Steve gang here, now the 'minority.' Been around long enough to see the consensus gradually shift from 'eww, Minecraft' to 'Steve for Smash!' 'Course there were always supporters, but they were the minority once upon a time, and just like with most non-Fire Emblem characters, the few people who were still against Steve when he got in have suddenly changed their tune to "haha I always wanted funny block man in Smash of course!" to fit in with the crowd while only hardasses like me will stick to my guns despite getting jumped by a mob for it.

Anyway, I digress. What do I think of Steve now that he's had time to settle in? Still the stupidest thing I've ever laid eyes on in Smash, some might call sticking out like a sore thumb and having stiff animations 'charming,' I call it lazy and ugly. "But Mr. Game & Watch!" people cry, but G&W comes from a time when that was the best animation could get, Minecraft comes from a time where it stuck out like a sore thumb for being what it is, this is a core problem with Minecraft itself, not Smash. Though even ignoring that, the least Smash could've done was clean Steve up a bit to match his own promotional renders, his spirit looks more like a Smash render than his Smash render.

So he sticks out and is an eyesore to look at, at least he's got a good moveset, right? Well sorry to continue to be the downer but I'm also probably the only guy that's kinda sick of wacky movesets for the sake of it and doesn't mind the simpler ones. Sakurai just seems to keep trying to one up himself with complexity in what was originally meant to be a very simple control scheme, and Steve is so complex it feels like a parody of complex Smash movesets. One positive I'll give is that, at its core, his standard moves are fun to use, which isn't much to say when 99% of the roster is fun on a basic level, but once you dig into the meat of it, everything starts falling apart. I'm sure the galaxy brain Pac-Man mains will find something to love in Steve, but the needless complexity flies in the face of the core demographic of Minecraft.

Now before the mob chases me out, I'll close with this. My love of Banjo has little to do with my distaste for Minecraft, as most would think. "Competition" for a spot in Smash is such a petty thing, and while part of it can be attributed to 'Grotesque' Steve trolls always putting down Banjo, my distaste didn't stop when Banjo got in. It's still an ugly game with a terrible fanbase and now it's harder to ignore it because it's in Smash. Congrats and all to the people who like this, don't let little old me get you down, just offering perspective from the other side before we become extinct.

I didn't really support Steve either cause I'm not into Minecraft. I just recognize it's hugely popular and left it at that for the most part. I was fairly surprised that Microsoft got to double dip on characters, with Steve being the most logical choice, then Master Chief, who's also huge. Granted there's a part of me that'll always root for Fulgore cause he's really sick.

I think my own perspective went from "ew Minecraft" to "Yeah that makes sense". I didn't get excited, but I understood the impact I guess. Granted I'm the kind of dude who found Terry to be the best of the DLC so far.

I'll agree dude still looks weird. But it is what it is. I wasn't a huge Banjo-Kazooie fan either, since I was more of Spyro guy during their heyday. But them being formally Nintendo felt like a reunion type of deal.

Too bad most Nintendo fans apparently don't play other fighting games (I kid, I kid), cause we could have shill Fulgore together who was also formally Nintendo.

Ryu Hayabusa debuted in October 1988 and Strider debuted in a video game March 1989, so I'm kind of calling bull**** on the "new characters" line of reasoning. Just say he's generic and you prefer others instead of bringing up Strider.

Also fun fact I didn't know until I looked this up, Strider actually originally debuted in May 1988 in a manga before Hayabusa, so I wonder if he's even eligible as a non video game originating character...

Strider's sort of a gray area I would guess. He debuted in a comic book, but his series specifically was created as a joint effort for multiple mediums and he is co-owned by Capcom if I remembered. Rather than most characters like Goku or Spider-Man starting out in one media and then getting non-comic book media after their popularity took off.

This might put him in a similar situation to Sora, where all parties involved need to agree. I've got no idea exactly.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Medusa and Black Shadow would be my choices for additional Echos.

 

[Perkilator]

My choices for Echoes would be:

• Shadow ()
• 
  
• Ninjara ()

 

[cashregister9]

Why do you all want Black Shadow, Ganondorf is already in the game

(and then I get sad because Ganondorfs move set is the epitome of missed potential)

My Echo list looks like
Cloud - Zack
Inkling - Octolings
Sonic - Blaze

 

[Deleted member]

To be completely honest with all of you, I would pay more than the prices of both fighter passes combined for a standalone Gooey fighter echoing off of Kirby.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Why do you all want Black Shadow, Ganondorf is already in the game

Because more villains, the merrier!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm more pulling for Dixie Kong, Medusa and Black Shadow myself, but yeah, Octoling would be great also.
But I have a question: How do you think they'd make the ink mechanic work to avoid it clashing with Inklings? For instance, there's already an alt that uses the same shade of pink for their ink that the Octolings typically use, so if the Pink Inking (the Pinkling, if you will) and the Octoling fire ink, how will you be able to tell which is which?

Have the Octoling use different shades. The OE magenta is different enough than the Inkling pink. You could use also Splatfest ink colors, some of which have special “textures” too like Mayo vs Ketchup, Unicorn vs Narwhal, Trick vs Treat (glow in the dark effect) or Chaos vs Order (metallic effect)

 

[drag0nscythe]

Given everything, i think steve fits in perfecrly fine. He plays nice, looks fine and is fun to use.

 

[Knight Dude]

Unless they decide to make some Echo Fighters after the pass as their own separate purchases, I don't see it happening.

They probably won't. But if they ever do. I need them to add Protoman or Bass EXPEDITIOUSLY.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

So he sticks out and is an eyesore to look at, at least he's got a good moveset, right? Well sorry to continue to be the downer but I'm also probably the only guy that's kinda sick of wacky movesets for the sake of it and doesn't mind the simpler ones. Sakurai just seems to keep trying to one up himself with complexity in what was originally meant to be a very simple control scheme, and Steve is so complex it feels like a parody of complex Smash movesets. One positive I'll give is that, at its core, his standard moves are fun to use, which isn't much to say when 99% of the roster is fun on a basic level, but once you dig into the meat of it, everything starts falling apart. I'm sure the galaxy brain Pac-Man mains will find something to love in Steve, but the needless complexity flies in the face of the core demographic of Minecraft..

This is something i have to agree on, not just Steve, but a lot of recent post-Brawl newcomers. I think Smash Ultimate REALLY overcomplicates the moveset, this trend started with 4's newcomers like Mac's KO Meter, Luma, and so on. Ultimate's base newcomers thankfully don't follow that trend, but the DLC..............god it's one of the main reasons why Banjo is the only one i play with regulary.

Joker's rebellion gauge is a *****, Ryu and Ken's entire "Press this button in this sensitive manner to deliver this amount of damage" ruined any interest i had on them, plus while i can do quarter circle punches and the like, doing them in Smash is not as intuitive as doing it in a 1 to 1 fighting game (try bringing Smash mechanics into a 1-to-1 fighter and see how fun that is) Terry is fun when i stop trying to play as him as a fighting game character and instead as a normal Smash character, but the point still stands. Then there's Min-Min's A and B buttons.

Then there's Hero, who somehow manages to be really dull and really complex. His Smash Attacks are run of the mill, and instead of having Magic to complent those simplistic attacks via Smash Attacks, all of them are tied to the special moves and have MP onto them because apparently you can't have a magic user without Magic Meters if Robin taught me anything (yet Mega Man doesn't have to worry about Weapon Ammo) If im honest SSF2's Black Mage is the best magic user in Smash so far, and that game has Naruto on it. Don't even get me started on the RNG.

To me the best "unorthodox" characters are those who use their mechanics not tagged onto the moveset, but use their unique movest as part of the basic moveset. Mega Man is unorthodox sure, and you can definetly pretend you are playing an actual Mega Man game due to his Jab, tilt and NA being the Mega Buster, but he doesn't have to worry about Weapon Armory for his Specials or any attack that is not his Mega Buster. Simon uses his whip flailing and can latch his whip onto legdes like SCIV, but he doesn't have to worry about upgrading his whip from leather to chainwhip, nor about Heart Ammo for his specials. (much to the dismay of certain people) they are themselves, they fight as they would fight in their games. They translate the character and their abilities, not their game's actual mechanics.

Don't get me wrong, i love Smash Movesets using ACTUAL moves and powers from the character's source material. I would LOVE Wario to be like his Smash 2 Mod incarnation, with the Shoulder Bash as a Side Special, his Ground Pound for his Down Special, turning flat for his down tilt like his "Flat" transfomration, or his Dash Attack where he literally gets Drunk, using actual Wario Land references instead of "haha he farts because the instruction manual of the japanese version of Wario's game states he is gross LMAO" (i know Smash 2 still has Wario Waft BTW). But i DO NOT want the bring the actual Transformation Mechanic from the Wario Land series, i don't want Wario to get fat(ter) when he eats food, i don't want Wario to get on Fire when he gets hit with a Fire Attack like a Fireball, etc.

I hope FP2 gets a "Banjo", someone who is simplistic and only relies on their moves from their source material without extra **** tagged on top. Maybe someone like Crash or Lloyd Irving would satisfy me.

 

[Knight Dude]

From a gameplay standpoint, I can't say much on either Steve or Min-Min, since I'm honestly waiting for most if not all of the DLC to be revealed before purchasing the pass.

I will say, Min-Min's actually kind of fun to fight against with Mega Man. Both being different takes on long range fighters, and each character has to pick their shots carefully. At least in my experience.

 

[drag0nscythe]

This is something i have to agree on, not just Steve, but a lot of recent post-Brawl newcomers. I think Smash Ultimate REALLY overcomplicates the moveset, this trend started with 4's newcomers like Mac's KO Meter, Luma, and so on. Ultimate's base newcomers thankfully don't follow that trend, but the DLC..............god it's one of the main reasons why Banjo is the only one i play with regulary.

Joker's rebellion gauge is a *****, Ryu and Ken's entire "Press this button in this sensitive manner to deliver this amount of damage" ruined any interest i had on them, plus while i can do quarter circle punches and the like, doing them in Smash is not as intuitive as doing it in a 1 to 1 fighting game (try bringing Smash mechanics into a 1-to-1 fighter and see how fun that is) Terry is fun when i stop trying to play as him as a fighting game character and instead as a normal Smash character, but the point still stands. Then there's Min-Min's A and B buttons.

Then there's Hero, who somehow manages to be really dull and really complex. His Smash Attacks are run of the mill, and instead of having Magic to complent those simplistic attacks via Smash Attacks, all of them are tied to the special moves and have MP onto them because apparently you can't have a magic user without Magic Meters if Robin taught me anything (yet Mega Man doesn't have to worry about Weapon Ammo) If im honest SSF2's Black Mage is the best magic user in Smash so far, and that game has Naruto on it. Don't even get me started on the RNG.

To me the best "unorthodox" characters are those who use their mechanics not tagged onto the moveset, but use their unique movest as part of the basic moveset. Mega Man is unorthodox sure, and you can definetly pretend you are playing an actual Mega Man game due to his Jab, tilt and NA being the Mega Buster, but he doesn't have to worry about Weapon Armory for his Specials or any attack that is not his Mega Buster. Simon uses his whip flailing and can latch his whip onto legdes like SCIV, but he doesn't have to worry about upgrading his whip from leather to chainwhip, nor about Heart Ammo for his specials. (much to the dismay of certain people) they are themselves, they fight as they would fight in their games. They translate the character and their abilities, not their game's actual mechanics.

Don't get me wrong, i love Smash Movesets using ACTUAL moves and powers from the character's source material. I would LOVE Wario to be like his Smash 2 Mod incarnation, with the Shoulder Bash as a Side Special, his Ground Pound for his Down Special, turning flat for his down tilt like his "Flat" transfomration, or his Dash Attack where he literally gets Drunk, using actual Wario Land references instead of "haha he farts because the instruction manual of the japanese version of Wario's game states he is gross LMAO" (i know Smash 2 still has Wario Waft BTW). But i DO NOT want the bring the actual Transformation Mechanic from the Wario Land series, i don't want Wario to get fat(ter) when he eats food, i don't want Wario to get on Fire when he gets hit with a Fire Attack like a Fireball, etc.

I hope FP2 gets a "Banjo", someone who is simplistic and only relies on their moves from their source material without extra **** tagged on top. Maybe someone like Crash or Lloyd Irving would satisfy me.

I mostly disgree. Here is my take. Each game had it unorthodox characters. In N64, It was definitely Kirby. His B move allows him to change what his B move is based on whom he fights. That is unique only to him. I think this is important to bring up mainly because it does show some of Sakurai's initial design philosophy. For N64, mario felt like Mario. DK felt like DK. Characters that normally had no moveset in mind at all felt like real characters. Sakurai designed with the games in mind. This lead into melee.

Melee had two gimmick characters. Sheik/Zelda and Ice climbers. Down B to swap characters and Ice Climbers is two of them. I dont think much needs to be said here except that again Sakurai is playing towards the characters history with zelda/shiek.

With Brawl, Zero Suit Samus was added. She was a gimmick character. A character that the Final smash would swap into. Now her normal moves and everything was basic and normal, but the characters concept and creation is still present. No. the gimmick was Pokemon Trainer. 3 pokemon. A STAMINA gauge.

Smash 4. Rosalina and Luma feel inspired by Ice climbers (in concept), Lil mac has his KO gauge. Then we had cloud who had his limit guage and Ryu, whom is a fighting game character transplanted into smash. In all these concepts, they Sakurai is translating the characters. He wants the characters to fell like said characters. In Punch out, there is a super punch gauge. I dont see it as gimmicky. I see it as an extension of the PT idea or even Kirby.

Smash U DLC has been out there. But I think it is all within reason. Joker has arsne, But is really different from Shiek/Zelda in Melee? Terry is a fighter like Ryu. I would honestly say MinMin and Steve are the true deviations from the standard formula. But even then, I would argue it is only MinMin. Steve has the standard 4 B moves, it is just his normal B has 3 functions. And once you use him,it is not at all difficult to understand.

I think all characters have been consistent with the standard game design and style. We have always had goof balls and oddities. It is just that Sakruai is making more with the DLC. Being extra paid content that people will take more notice of.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

They probably won't. But if they ever do. I need them to add Protoman or Bass EXPEDITIOUSLY.

View attachment 289706

Plot twist.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[drag0nscythe]

Plot twist.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I would dig Roll being in Smash as a fighter. Just not Broom Role from TvC.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Plot twist.

I would kinda dig that... but wasn't MvC the only time when Roll had the same moveset as Mega Man? As a joke character of sorts? I think she may have had one or two different normals, but that's it.

...not that I'd complain, of course.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I would kinda dig that... but wasn't MvC the only time when Roll had the same moveset as Mega Man? As a joke character of sorts? I think she may have had one or two different normals, but that's it.

...not that I'd complain, of course.

Yeah, that's what this concept is based on.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Peeton]

This is something i have to agree on, not just Steve, but a lot of recent post-Brawl newcomers. I think Smash Ultimate REALLY overcomplicates the moveset, this trend started with 4's newcomers like Mac's KO Meter, Luma, and so on. Ultimate's base newcomers thankfully don't follow that trend, but the DLC..............god it's one of the main reasons why Banjo is the only one i play with regulary.

Joker's rebellion gauge is a *****, Ryu and Ken's entire "Press this button in this sensitive manner to deliver this amount of damage" ruined any interest i had on them, plus while i can do quarter circle punches and the like, doing them in Smash is not as intuitive as doing it in a 1 to 1 fighting game (try bringing Smash mechanics into a 1-to-1 fighter and see how fun that is) Terry is fun when i stop trying to play as him as a fighting game character and instead as a normal Smash character, but the point still stands. Then there's Min-Min's A and B buttons.

Then there's Hero, who somehow manages to be really dull and really complex. His Smash Attacks are run of the mill, and instead of having Magic to complent those simplistic attacks via Smash Attacks, all of them are tied to the special moves and have MP onto them because apparently you can't have a magic user without Magic Meters if Robin taught me anything (yet Mega Man doesn't have to worry about Weapon Ammo) If im honest SSF2's Black Mage is the best magic user in Smash so far, and that game has Naruto on it. Don't even get me started on the RNG.

To me the best "unorthodox" characters are those who use their mechanics not tagged onto the moveset, but use their unique movest as part of the basic moveset. Mega Man is unorthodox sure, and you can definetly pretend you are playing an actual Mega Man game due to his Jab, tilt and NA being the Mega Buster, but he doesn't have to worry about Weapon Armory for his Specials or any attack that is not his Mega Buster. Simon uses his whip flailing and can latch his whip onto legdes like SCIV, but he doesn't have to worry about upgrading his whip from leather to chainwhip, nor about Heart Ammo for his specials. (much to the dismay of certain people) they are themselves, they fight as they would fight in their games. They translate the character and their abilities, not their game's actual mechanics.

Don't get me wrong, i love Smash Movesets using ACTUAL moves and powers from the character's source material. I would LOVE Wario to be like his Smash 2 Mod incarnation, with the Shoulder Bash as a Side Special, his Ground Pound for his Down Special, turning flat for his down tilt like his "Flat" transfomration, or his Dash Attack where he literally gets Drunk, using actual Wario Land references instead of "haha he farts because the instruction manual of the japanese version of Wario's game states he is gross LMAO" (i know Smash 2 still has Wario Waft BTW). But i DO NOT want the bring the actual Transformation Mechanic from the Wario Land series, i don't want Wario to get fat(ter) when he eats food, i don't want Wario to get on Fire when he gets hit with a Fire Attack like a Fireball, etc.

I hope FP2 gets a "Banjo", someone who is simplistic and only relies on their moves from their source material without extra **** tagged on top. Maybe someone like Crash or Lloyd Irving would satisfy me.

I do have to agree a little. Maybe Miyamoto is sticking his head into development (since he LOVES obtuse gimmicks) lol! Smash 4’s newcomers were very gimmicky and a lot of the DLC is too. I do like simple old smash characters, but some of the gimmicky ones I like too. I like Robin, Shulk, Terry (WE LOVE TERRY), and Hero. I also like the simpler ones too like Wolf, the rest of the FE cast, K Rool, Snake.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Yeah, that's what this concept is based on.

I see... wasn't she garbage in that game tho? Well, not the MvC rep we wanted, nor the one we needed, but certainly the one we deserve lol.

Render looks good, I have to say.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Dropping in on the Steve discussion while it's still lukewarm.

Part of the anti-Steve gang here, now the 'minority.' Been around long enough to see the consensus gradually shift from 'eww, Minecraft' to 'Steve for Smash!' 'Course there were always supporters, but they were the minority once upon a time, and just like with most non-Fire Emblem characters, the few people who were still against Steve when he got in have suddenly changed their tune to "haha I always wanted funny block man in Smash of course!" to fit in with the crowd while only hardasses like me will stick to my guns despite getting jumped by a mob for it.

Anyway, I digress. What do I think of Steve now that he's had time to settle in? Still the stupidest thing I've ever laid eyes on in Smash, some might call sticking out like a sore thumb and having stiff animations 'charming,' I call it lazy and ugly. "But Mr. Game & Watch!" people cry, but G&W comes from a time when that was the best animation could get, Minecraft comes from a time where it stuck out like a sore thumb for being what it is, this is a core problem with Minecraft itself, not Smash. Though even ignoring that, the least Smash could've done was clean Steve up a bit to match his own promotional renders, his spirit looks more like a Smash render than his Smash render.

So he sticks out and is an eyesore to look at, at least he's got a good moveset, right? Well sorry to continue to be the downer but I'm also probably the only guy that's kinda sick of wacky movesets for the sake of it and doesn't mind the simpler ones. Sakurai just seems to keep trying to one up himself with complexity in what was originally meant to be a very simple control scheme, and Steve is so complex it feels like a parody of complex Smash movesets. One positive I'll give is that, at its core, his standard moves are fun to use, which isn't much to say when 99% of the roster is fun on a basic level, but once you dig into the meat of it, everything starts falling apart. I'm sure the galaxy brain Pac-Man mains will find something to love in Steve, but the needless complexity flies in the face of the core demographic of Minecraft.

Now before the mob chases me out, I'll close with this. My love of Banjo has little to do with my distaste for Minecraft, as most would think. "Competition" for a spot in Smash is such a petty thing, and while part of it can be attributed to 'Grotesque' Steve trolls always putting down Banjo, my distaste didn't stop when Banjo got in. It's still an ugly game with a terrible fanbase and now it's harder to ignore it because it's in Smash. Congrats and all to the people who like this, don't let little old me get you down, just offering perspective from the other side before we become extinct.

I still don't really like that Steve got added, but it is what it is. I've already talked here and there about how I don't like Minecraft or Steve very much. There's not much point in stating my opinion beyond that. It won't change what's already in the game

As for the moveset, I know very little about Minecraft, and I knew it would be the most complex moveset months before Steve was added. That just seemed obvious to me when I thought about how mining and crafting could be used to upgrade your stuff.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Sonic - Blaze

ahhh I see you’re a man of cukture

my list would’ve been this:

Ganondorf - Black Shadow
Palutena - Medusa
Sonic - Blaze
Diddy Kong - Dixie Kong
Inklings - Octolings

 

[drag0nscythe]

Echo convos. I want a Rock Howard echo of Terry Bogard. It could work.

 

[RileyXY1]

All of the good echos of Steve are alts, and I don't know who would echo Byleth. I can also see Ninten as a Lucas echo.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I see... wasn't she garbage in that game tho? Well, not the MvC rep we wanted, nor the one we needed, but certainly the one we deserve lol.

Render looks good, I have to say.

Pichu was garbage in Melee, they were able to make it into a legitimately viable character in Ultimate. If it's too unbalanced they're not going to make a character too drastically terrible just because they were in another fighting game.

 

[MisterMike]

They probably won't. But if they ever do. I need them to add Protoman or Bass EXPEDITIOUSLY.

View attachment 289706

Question: Would you be upset if they added Proto Man and/or Bass to Smash, but they had the proportions like Mega Man in Smash?

 

[Knight Dude]

Question: Would you be upset if they added Proto Man and/or Bass to Smash, but they had the proportions like Mega Man in Smash?

Not at all. I'd mostly want them as Echoes, albeit closer to Chrom in terms of feeling different. Protoman especially would be fine since that'd be close to NES and SNES design like Mega Man himself is.

A fully unique character from Mega Man could probably be one of the other main protags like MMX, Zero, Volnutt ect. Using some series specific weapons and mechanics.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Pichu was garbage in Melee, they were able to make it into a legitimately viable character in Ultimate. If it's too unbalanced they're not going to make a character too drastically terrible just because they were in another fighting game.

I mean... yeah. I agree. I said that in jest, lol.

 

[ROBnWatch]

While I think Octoling would make an easy echo for Inkling, I also think you could make use of some of the current Splatoon 1 and 2 weapons (Chargers, Splatlings, Dualies, Brellas) that are unused in Inkling’s moveset and make Octoling an Isabelle to Inkling’s Villager. Throw in a different bomb other than Splat Bomb (Suction Bomb, Burst Bomb, or something else), make a few moves use weapons over physical attacks, you could have a solid moveset that still feels unique to Octoling.

Now do I think this is likely? No, they’d probably just make Octoling an echo. But I do think it’s possible, the potential is there.

 

[PSIGuy]

A villain pack of Echoes would be fun. Medusa and Black Shadow have already been said, but Malos as another XB character would be nice too. Medusa could reuse Palutena's scrapped specials, merging some of them like Palutena did in her own moveset.
Up: Rocket Jump + Jump Glide,
Side; Angelic Missile,
Neutral: Heavenly Light + Celestial Firework,
Down: Light Weight.
Black Shadow could be a Chrom-style merge of Ganondorf and Falcon, keeping the darkness but losing the sword, and having some but not all of Falcon's more acrobatic abilities.
Malos could be a simpler Shulk (he's a bit worse generally, but his Monado Arts only have buffs with no draw backs). Alternatively he could have double-edged Monado Arts with more unique buffs with their own drawbacks (Heal on hit but take more damage, have less endlag on moves but more hitstun when attacked Both concepts are referencing how he's the heavily damaged 'sibling' to Shulk's Monado.
Villains in particular I think add a lot because they allow for way more scenarios in classic mode and spirit battles and help flesh out a series a ton. You don't really need to know much about them, just that they're bad.

On that note, it's a shame they never added a Spirit Board for Pirahna Plant. It wouldn't have to be Mario-only, either, they could just have Pirahna represent different plants from across the base game's franchises.

 

[StrangeKitten]

My picks for echoes would be:
: Dry Bowser (Would prefer as an alt but an echo could work. You could take a few moves from Melee Bowser, giving them upgrades where needed, and replace Bowser Bomb with a bone throw for slight uniqueness)
: Dixie Kong
: Make him separate and do Rock Pikmin over either White or Purple
: Violet (Might need some moves changed a bit and replace Arsene with Cendrillon)
: Octoling
: Medusa
: With Pokemon from another generation, this one would be complicated because you may have to give the Pokemon a lot of different moves from original PT but it would be awesome. And preferably an unrepped gen like 3 or 5. Would be called Hoenn Trainer, Unova Trainer, etc.
: Shadow

 

[Perkilator]

: With Pokemon from another generation, this one would be complicated because you may have to give the Pokemon a lot of different moves from original PT but it would be awesome. And preferably an unrepped gen like 3 or 5. Would be called Hoenn Trainer, Unova Trainer, etc.

Lemme see if I could try to compound a list of Pokemon to use:

Snivy, Blaziken and Marshtomp

 

[Guynamednelson]

you may have to give the Pokemon a lot of different moves

More like make three brand-new fighters entirely from scratch, the exact opposite of an echo.

 

[BlondeLombax]

HOT TAKE TIME
METAL SONIC WOULD BE A BETTER CHOICE OF ECHO THAN SHADOW​

 

[StrangeKitten]

Lemme see if I could try to compound a list of Pokemon to use:

Snivy, Blaziken and Marshtomp

Oh, I was thinking they'd all be from the same generation, like how PT's are all gen 1. So you'd do Mudkip, Grovyle, Blaziken, or you'd do Oshawott, Servine, Emboar, etc. etc.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

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[SneakyLink]

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Fly, my Blue Eyes White Dragon!

 

[Cosmic77]

I feel like the characters in the first pass were fairly balanced between normal and gimmicky.

Banjo and Byleth are normal fighters by all accounts. Wonderwing is limited to five, but that's about the only notable "gimmick" between these two. Joker and Hero are obviously gimmicky. Joker has a special gauge that grants him stronger attacks when filled, while Hero has a meter showing how much magic has been consumed. Terry is sort of in-between. He has directional inputs, but there are two other characters who have those too. He also gets two stronger special moves when he reaches 100%, but I feel like that's not as notable as Joker, a character who gets stronger versions of all his specials when his gauge is filled.

So yeah, I still think Sakurai is doing a decent job of balancing characters. The second pass so far has been nothing but gimmicky, but looking at the characters, I'm not sure there was any way to make them normal without ignoring what made them special in the first place.

 

[Arcanir]

: With Pokemon from another generation, this one would be complicated because you may have to give the Pokemon a lot of different moves from original PT but it would be awesome. And preferably an unrepped gen like 3 or 5. Would be called Hoenn Trainer, Unova Trainer, etc.

If they have to change many of the moves then they can't be Echoes though, the whole point of the concept is that they're characters that can easily be slapped onto a base and changed minimally. Something like Blaziken over Charizard would require so many changes you might as well make the former an entirely new character.

 

[Perkilator]

If they have to change many of the moves then they can't be Echoes though, the whole point of the concept is that they're characters that can easily be slapped onto a base and changed minimally. Something like Blaziken over Charizard would require so many changes you might as well make the former an entirely new character.

Oh, okay...then we make this kind of character a semi-clone in terms of the 3 Pokemon switch thing.