Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[blackghost]

Sakurai had his chance to add Geno in the base roster. He didn't take it. Now Nintendo chooses the characters.

To be brutally honest, I don't think Sakurai wants Geno as much as people think. I feel like Geno is never a big enough priority for him to add over other characters he's considering, so he settles for things like Spirits and Mii costumes.

here's the brutal truth: Geno. doesn't. matter.
im not insulting his game or how fond people are of him but in the grand scheme of videogame legacy and history, he doesnt matter. Look at the new chaarcter inclusions in smash DLC history he'd be the only character that is all of these things: one-off character, he'd be the only nonprotagonist, he didnt redefine the industry or a genre within the industry. He's a footnote in two companies' vast library of achievements and innovations.

If Nintendo is choosing characters for DLC characters like Waluigi and Geno are likely done. Nintendo in general clearly doesn't care about Waluigi. as some people have stated that may be due to his creation coming outside of their scope and plan.

I don't think Sakurai would be given a freebie character. If he did then there might be a possibility that he could pick Geno. Who knows, maybe Fighter 11 is Geno.

Personally, I think that freebie was terry and he already got it.

A niche character like Estelle, Sakura or Saber

"niche" saber. uummm come again?

Geno's the weird paradox. He's a massive fan request, but in the grand scheme of things, he's pretty minor. If he gets in, it's because of fan support and fan support alone. Maybe Nintendo wants to acknowledge it, maybe they're not willing to get the license for such a minor character. It could go either way.

in nintendo eyes the request to fulfill steve, K rool, and bring everyone back should do more than enough for fan request in this game.

 

[cashregister9]

"niche" saber. uummm come again?

I put Saber there as a lot of people don't know that Fate started as a Visual novel and she is a relatively niche pick when it comes to smash specifically

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Fair

but also, there’s tons of third party switch exclusives and also first parties that don’t have events yet

I'm worried for my girl, Arle potentially getting a Spirit Event for PPT2's release in Dec 8. Hoping she dodges the bullet.

 

[Dinoman96]

Honestly, if Geno isn't going to made playable, then they really should of just given his fans closure in the base game by making him an assist trophy.

That's the crux of the issue, I think. With characters like Krystal, Isaac, Waluigi, etc they ripped the band aid off and provided closure for their fandoms with their assist trophies. Geno on the other hand only got a mere spirit, which as shown with Min Min, isn't RIP for FP2. So now we're just endlessly waiting for them to either reveal Geno as a fighter or just a Mii outfit as he was back in Smash 4, because they didn't bother closing the door on him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...Geno is one of the protagonists of Super Mario RPG. What on earth are you talking about? He and Mario share the spot as the main character who the story revolves around. Peach is the only one of slight non-importance among the playable 5. Mallow helped create the reason why Mario is doing stuff too, and actually has his own major story arc(but he's not important to the main plot either). Bowser and Mario both want to stop Smithy in general. Bowser is slightly less important cause it's to get his castle back. Geno, like Mario, is trying to save the world. That's why they're the main protagonists. They always shared the spot. Geno's issue is lack of a character arc and thus, not a lot of characterization. This is why many don't see him as interesting. But he's massively important to the plot overall. He's a key part of the main plot, as he fights for a similar reason to Mario.

He's not the biggest character by any means, and Nintendo clearly cared enough because they negotiated for his costume and spirit too.

Waluigi nor Geno are "likely done" whatsoever. Nintendo does pay attention to huge fan requests. Don't forget it was Nintendo who acknowledged Waluigi's massive outcry when he was AT's again. They damn well know he's wanted. They may not choose him for this game, but he's absolutely on the table here.

 

[BlondeLombax]

I put Saber there as a lot of people don't know that Fate started as a Visual novel and she is a relatively niche pick when it comes to smash specifically

As I had stated before, the vocal Smash fandom’s idea of “niche” translates to “I don’t know this character, ergo, me and the rest of the fanbase despises them and wants them gone,” even though that’s explicitly not the case. So yeah, you worded it pretty much perfectly.

 

[SharkLord]

I've seen some people use the lack of Geno Mii as evidence, but I don't think that's how it is. Dragon Quest had the entire spotlight for Hero's pack; Not even Byleth was pushing a new release that hard. I don't think any Squeenix characters beyond Dragon Quest were on the table. Even without that, there's still a lot of potential SQ reps beyond Geno.

 

[7NATOR]

A good way to put it is this; Geno's costume would be re-negotiated with Geno playable to not be in the game if and only if it was already licensed for Hero. And yes, absolutely Geno would cost more due to the extra content. His costume may even have to cost slightly more to get(or the same price, but new agreements) if it gets even slightly updated and comes back. Whether or not Geno is playable doesn't change they'd have to possibly re-license the costume.

Also, it's not "because they're playable and thus a bigger draw", it's more "they're playable and inherently have more content and generally cost more". For the most part, companies just see the usage of their IP as a one size fits all situations. It's the amount of content that becomes what the context is.

So If they decided that they just want to Make the Geno costume Premium when they already negotiated for Geno Likeness in the game, They would have to Have Permission to make Changes to the Costume and New Agreements, but there's a Possibility they don't have to Pay Extra in Licensing Fees, Unless there was something about Geno having to be Packed with Hero and Charging extra to have him in Separate Pack (Especially if there's no Square Characters)?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So If they decided that they just want to Make the Geno costume Premium when they already negotiated for Geno Likeness in the game, They would have to Have Permission to make Changes to the Costume and New Agreements, but there's a Possibility they don't have to Pay Extra in Licensing Fees, Unless there was something about Geno having to be Packed with Hero and Charging extra to have him in Separate Pack (Especially if there's no Square Characters)?

Yep. Agreement to changes doesn't mean more money in itself, it just means SE is okay with the changes. They might not see more money necessary because the costume is still going to sell anyway.

I don't think there's a case of "extra charging" to be in a new pack in itself. It's more "we need to move the character" because Hero wasn't plausible. It completely depends who the new pack is, as that could affect money too. If it's not a SE character, it's possible they want a bit more since they like to keep their IP's a bit more together. But maybe not.

There's no telling if more money would be needed. But it's possible if new licensing comes up.

I hope that explains it well enough.

 

[7NATOR]

Yep. Agreement to changes doesn't mean more money in itself, it just means SE is okay with the changes. They might not see more money necessary because the costume is still going to sell anyway.

I don't think there's a case of "extra charging" to be in a new pack in itself. It's more "we need to move the character" because Hero wasn't plausible. It completely depends who the new pack is, as that could affect money too. If it's not a SE character, it's possible they want a bit more since they like to keep their IP's a bit more together. But maybe not.

There's no telling if more money would be needed. But it's possible if new licensing comes up.

I hope that explains it well enough.

Thanks! it Does

In your Opinion, Since Playable Characters Licenses would end up costing more due to needing to License Stages, Music, Spirits, other Forms of Cameos, Along with More Potential Stipulations and/or Agreements that need to be made depending on how the Company feels, is it possible that While the Character Themselves may not have been much to Nintendo to License, that Something like the Stage, Music, Spirits, all adds up to a Cost that Nintendo is not willing to Pay for the character to be Playable, especially if there are other Characters that would be Easier to License all that Content as a whole?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Thanks! it Does

In your Opinion, Since Playable Characters Licenses would end up costing more due to needing to License Stages, Music, Spirits, other Forms of Cameos, Along with More Potential Stipulations and/or Agreements that need to be made depending on how the Company feels, is it possible that While the Character Themselves may not have been much to Nintendo to License, that Something like the Stage, Music, Spirits, all adds up to a Cost that Nintendo is not willing to Pay for the character to be Playable, especially if there are other Characters that would be Easier to License all that Content as a whole?

Absolutely. The amount of context and how much it costs is always relevant to negotiations.

So if one costs too much, that might break the deal. However, most likely if they're that far, they might just take the bare minimum. Cloud is proof of that.

 

[Droodle]

...Geno is one of the protagonists of Super Mario RPG. What on earth are you talking about? He and Mario share the spot as the main character who the story revolves around. Peach is the only one of slight non-importance among the playable 5. Mallow helped create the reason why Mario is doing stuff too, and actually has his own major story arc(but he's not important to the main plot either). Bowser and Mario both want to stop Smithy in general. Bowser is slightly less important cause it's to get his castle back. Geno, like Mario, is trying to save the world. That's why they're the main protagonists. They always shared the spot. Geno's issue is lack of a character arc and thus, not a lot of characterization. This is why many don't see him as interesting. But he's massively important to the plot overall. He's a key part of the main plot, as he fights for a similar reason to Mario.

He's not the biggest character by any means, and Nintendo clearly cared enough because they negotiated for his costume and spirit too.

Waluigi nor Geno are "likely done" whatsoever. Nintendo does pay attention to huge fan requests. Don't forget it was Nintendo who acknowledged Waluigi's massive outcry when he was AT's again. They damn well know he's wanted. They may not choose him for this game, but he's absolutely on the table here.

Mario is THE main character of SMRPG, DEFINITIVELY.

Geno is closer to someone like Morgana from Persona 5, Dunban from Xenoblade Chronicles, or Erik from Dragon Quest 11. All of them are major party members, who join (fairly) early on; and are a lot more knowledgeable about what's going on in comparison to the main character themselves. But no one is going to argue that they are the just as important as Joker, Shulk, or the Hero himself; Geno, Morgana, Dunban, and Erik all would be closer to the role of deuteragonist or tritagonist rather than the main protagonist. They're plenty important, but there is a clear person that is ahead of all of them.

Not against Geno, and I think he's plenty possible; but I just think saying Geno is the main character right alongside Mario is as dumb as saying Geno is a side character.

 

[Deleted member]

Since we're talking about it again, I won't be ready for if we're on the road to CP11 where the Geno costume hasn't returned yet only for it to be a part of the last set of Mii Costumes to coincide with whoever's the last DLC character, but I sure do wonder how the Genoverse would react to that happening.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Yeah, as a Funko collector it's pretty much impossible for me to see the "ugly" here. Also, it actually is a variety of Funko anyway.

Anyway, let's talk about Smash Bros. for some reason. I feel like the "bare minimum" I need to be content with FP2 is either one more first-party character, or Crash Bandicoot. Gut feeling, what are my odds? Do you have a bare minimum of your own?

I want one character I really like. That could be a most wanted of mine, or perhaps someone who surprises me. I didn't know much about Persona back when they revealed Joker, and he ended up becoming my favorite character in the entire game. So there's always the possibility another character will come close to that. Let's say we got Scorpion, he's not a big want of mine but I could see myself loving his moveset. Thus far, I've liked Min Min pretty well and don't like Steve in terms of his character design (and can't see Steve's moveset making me love him, it's cool and all but I just doubt it's gonna be a fave of mine). I have a lot of characters I like, from Ryu Hayabusa and Crash to controversial ones like Geno, Sora, Tracer, and even a gen 8 Pokemon, so there's a very good chance I'll wind up happy

 

[Thewafflemaker2000]

Just noticed in addition to pac-man, megaman and, hopefully rayman, we now have enderman

 

[7NATOR]

Absolutely. The amount of context and how much it costs is always relevant to negotiations.

So if one costs too much, that might break the deal. However, most likely if they're that far, they might just take the bare minimum. Cloud is proof of that.

I Was actually Thinking of Cloud when Making this

I figure they could do the Bare Minimum like with Cloud. Now at the same time, I don't know if we get someone that is that Lacking in Content like it was with Cloud these

I also wonder if Since they literally put in A Character from the Best Selling Game of all time, if there is any need to Go with any other Characters that could prove to be Costly along with Steve. Steve is absoulutely that Character that will Sell FP's, So I wonder with the other Characters they decide to go more cheap, especially since FP2 is one Extra Character than FP1, Nintendo still has to Pay Sora Ltd and Sakurai to make the DLC after Licensing the Characters's Inclusions, and they are doing it over TWO years (Likely because less people are working on the DLC). Not to say we won't get anymore Big Characters, and if that Resetera is True, they did try to go for Sora, Probably knowing it might be Expensive, But it's something to think about

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mario is THE main character of SMRPG, DEFINITIVELY.

Geno is closer to someone like Morgana from Persona 5, Dunban from Xenoblade Chronicles, or Erik from Dragon Quest 11. All of them are major party members, who join (fairly) early on; and are a lot more knowledgeable about what's going on in comparison to the main character themselves. But no one is going to argue that they are the just as important as Joker, Shulk, or the Hero himself; Geno, Morgana, Dunban, and Erik all would be closer to the role of deuteragonist or tritagonist rather than the main protagonist. They're plenty important, but there is a clear person that is ahead of all of them.

Not against Geno, and I think he's plenty possible; but I just think saying Geno is the main character right alongside Mario is as dumb as saying Geno is a side character.

I don't see how they aren't equally as important as they both share the same core story importance.

Main character and protagonist mean entirely different things anyway. They just happen to be both. The story 100% revolves around both character's actions. Neither is actually more important than the other in the actual story. Hell, Mario could be barely more important, but not enough to be the main protagonist at this point.

Bowser is the actual deuteragonist because he's the only one still involved in the main story while being of less importance. There's no tritagonist either because there's no important 3rd story arc to go with. Mallow's close, but it's a side arc about his characterization, not about the game's actual important story. ...Peach isn't really close to of importance at all. Just there for the ride, of course.

Calling arguments dumb is basically childish name-calling. I don't see any use in that being relevant at all the conversation. Likewise, there's no doubt Geno is a side character in the franchise. He's just one of the few main characters in SMRPG. Smithy is the last of the three main characters in the story. Exor is mistaken for him too, funnily enough, but is just a starter villain with a decently big impact.

Main character(s) means "key importance to the story", of which Geno, Mario, and Smithy most definitely is. Whether you count him one of the core protagonists is a more iffy terminology, though. I would, but that's up for debate.

Either way, I consider him one of the two key protagonists of SMRPG without a doubt. If you don't, fair enough. But I won't pretend he isn't just as important as Mario is to the story, when the story literally revolves around both of them and Smithy's actions most definitely. You're downplaying his importance by calling him some kind of secondary character. That's definitely not true.

Probably just going to agree to disagree, but either way, yes, he's a main character(which as I mentioned, is not "protagonist". Those are vastly different meanings).

 

[Idon]

To be honest, I don't know why Geno's position in the story really matters all that much. Regardless of what he's categorized as, he's the best candidate you've got as far as representing SMRPG goes. It's usually the roadblocks and hurdles surrounding SMRPG as a game that make it more difficult to add Geno, not Geno as a character himself, at least in my opinion.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If you find Lloyd unlikely because the other Namco costumes were not included in his hypothetical pack...

Then shouldn't the same logic apply to Monster Hunter? We've been getting Capcom costumes for ages now.

I just find the whole thing to be hypocritical. I find the whole error in logic to be due to "recency bias" with Rise' announcement.

 

[Oshawott777]

Since we're talking about it again, I won't be ready for if we're on the road to CP11 where the Geno costume hasn't returned yet only for it to be a part of the last set of Mii Costumes to coincide with whoever's the last DLC character, but I sure do wonder how the Genoverse would react to that happening.

Well, I cant speak for everyone, but as someone who loves crossovers, I look at it like something to look forward the next game. I don't mean in an obsessive way, but Smash is a popular franchise. Even if the next game isnt for a decade, there's always gonna be characters that people are going to want. I may not, say, be the biggest Dixie Kong fan, but I feel like she's gonna pop up sometime. Or in the first pass, I was happy to see Terry and Banjo, even though they aren't my #1 picks.

 

[Droodle]

If you find Lloyd unlikely because the other Namco costumes were not included in his hypothetical pack...

Then shouldn't the same logic apply to Monster Hunter? We've been getting Capcom costumes for ages now.

I just find the whole thing to be hypocritical. I find the whole error in logic to be due to "recency bias" with Rise' announcement.

I think people are more willing to overlook Capcom just because they already had far more costumes missing to begin with compared to the likes of Namco. Unless a hypothetical Capcom characters wave was entirely returning Mii Costumes, then they wouldn't necessarily be able to put in any new ones in related to the fighter (assuming they stick to the limit of 6 costumes per wave).

Namco had 3 missing costuming, of which two of them have returned in the last two waves. Still missing Lloyd.
Capcom had 6 missing costumes, of which 4 of them have returned. Still missing the two MH costumes.

Some people also might find it weird that MH didn't return with Steve considering that it honestly fits a lot more than Gil. Heck, Monster Hunter even has that whole Steak meme for fans of the games. Though, most of the times costumes necessarily don't fit the waves.

Personally I still think Lloyd/Namco are still possible (they could just make 5 or even 6 new costumes, if Lloyd's doesn't return), but it's easy to see why people are a little more confident on a Capcom character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If you find Lloyd unlikely because the other Namco costumes were not included in his hypothetical pack...

Then shouldn't the same logic apply to Monster Hunter? We've been getting Capcom costumes for ages now.

I just find the whole thing to be hypocritical. I find the whole error in logic to be due to "recency bias" with Rise' announcement.

Exactly. There's a lot of recency bias going on in these situations.

Though that's also where a lot of predictions come from, which isn't entirely unfair. It's how people figured Luminary would be one of the Hero alts, after all. It's not always incorrect.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

If you find Lloyd unlikely because the other Namco costumes were not included in his hypothetical pack...

Then shouldn't the same logic apply to Monster Hunter? We've been getting Capcom costumes for ages now.

I just find the whole thing to be hypocritical. I find the whole error in logic to be due to "recency bias" with Rise' announcement.

The theory is dumb cause they could just make more costumes for that specific company if needed for the character.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Honestly, if Geno isn't going to made playable, then they really should of just given his fans closure in the base game by making him an assist trophy.

That's the crux of the issue, I think. With characters like Krystal, Isaac, Waluigi, etc they ripped the band aid off and provided closure for their fandoms with their assist trophies. Geno on the other hand only got a mere spirit, which as shown with Min Min, isn't RIP for FP2. So now we're just endlessly waiting for them to either reveal Geno as a fighter or just a Mii outfit as he was back in Smash 4, because they didn't bother closing the door on him.

See, I'm not sure everyone is entitled to "closure" who supports a character. It's not realistic and it happens across all kinds of games, let alone one as inclusive and far reaching as Smash Bros. that is one of the biggest and most diverse crossovers in all of gaming. It's entirely possible the Spirit was the only closure that the Geno fan base may get, possibly a Mii Costume if they're a little more lucky late on as they decided to bring it back... But there's never a good time to tell somebody that a character they've loved and supported isn't in the game. People made the same arguments about Isaac being revealed in the last Direct, but in reality, every character has fans that will be let down and there are even multiple fan bases that will be let down of a major size. And Sakurai doesn't look at Assist Trophies or Mii Costumes as negatives like fans desperate to get their favorite in do, and there's no reason he, nor his team, nor Nintendo as a whole should when they're managing everything in such a way as they are.

Something the Smash fan base needs to get better is accepting that the only closure most of will get is that which we make for ourselves. We're not going to get detailed explanations as to why every favorite isn't in or why they didn't get more content in a "gesture" to the fan base. You have to accept with an entertainment product of this caliber, there is information you aren't going to know probably ever and people are going to be let down. It's always really bothered me that the Geno fan base in particular feels entitled to this specifically because of their own brownie point mentality of having been around for a decade on and off. Nobody is entitled to closure of this type, and the amount of time a fan base doesn't really make a difference. It's also felt always a bit presumptuous and selfish to bring up Geno as THE last fan favorite or even the last Brawl fan favorite or one of the three or one of the five or whatever. There's a lot of characters with sizable fan bases that are vocal and have also lasted years.

There's nothing wrong with being a fan of a character and voicing your support on forums. If it brings you happiness and you enjoy it and enjoy talking to other people about the character, that's genuinely really awesome and continue enjoying it! If you wanna try your hand at a campaign for recognition and send mail to Nintendo/Sakurai in support in a non invasive way, that's also really great! But I'm just tired of this mentality that Smash fans are owed closure for their support or owed anything like that when even a semi-big fan base like Geno is in a sea of a hundred and there's so much more that goes on with these games. It's not like Nintendo is blatantly ignoring fans and not like Sakurai does not already volunteer tons of information while going out of his way with what he does, so let's not talk about how anybody is owed or deserved closure. People choose to support characters and build their ideas and theories often times from that point of view, and that's an ownership I do wish people were more willing to own as well.

 

[Deleted member]

If you find Lloyd unlikely because the other Namco costumes were not included in his hypothetical pack...

Then shouldn't the same logic apply to Monster Hunter? We've been getting Capcom costumes for ages now.

I just find the whole thing to be hypocritical. I find the whole error in logic to be due to "recency bias" with Rise' announcement.

Lloyd also doesn't really have much of a chance even ignoring the Mii Costume. MH costumes could easily come with the Hunter themselves. Not really seeing how this impacts MH considering there is very easily a future where we get the 2 returning MH costumes, 1 or 2 new Capcom costumes, & a premium + a random alongside MH's challenger pack.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think another point about closure is that there's also people who only accept playable and nothing else as any closure. Sure, there are plenty of fans who see a Mii costume, AT or whatever and take it, but there's also those who say "THAT'S JUST A FAN RULE MY FAVOURITE'S STILL VERY LIKELY". It's like how a Cacomallow truther told me that most people would consider it fake if it wasn't shown off by FP5. Then it was until Min Min. Then until Steve, now it's until E3, etc

 

[Louie G.]

If you find Lloyd unlikely because the other Namco costumes were not included in his hypothetical pack...

Then shouldn't the same logic apply to Monster Hunter? We've been getting Capcom costumes for ages now.

I just find the whole thing to be hypocritical. I find the whole error in logic to be due to "recency bias" with Rise' announcement.

The key difference for me here is that the Capcom costumes dropped consistently during FP1, but we've yet to see Monster Hunter return (or any Capcom content to speak of) within FP2. Meanwhile, Namco sat out of FP1 entirely but is just now getting their costumes drip fed in FP2.

Also what Droodle said below is a good way of looking at it. I do understand your perspective on it Swamp, but I think there's a key difference worth recognizing. Not to say the MH costumes can't also return without a playable character, it's honestly just as likely if not more that they do, just that the current trend is favoring Namco costumes.

Namco had 3 missing costuming, of which two of them have returned in the last two waves. Still missing Lloyd.
Capcom had 6 missing costumes, of which 4 of them have returned. Still missing the two MH costumes.

Also in my defense, I started seriously considering Monster Hunter way back in March when we were confirmed to be getting an ARMS character - the possibility of series with content but without playable representation being revisited and expanded upon opened the door wide open to further explore a series as big and clearly important to Nintendo as MH. That was one of the first things I thought of.

Rise only served to drill that in, bringing MH back to Nintendo consoles in a big way. For what it's worth though, I won't pretend like most people aren't just playing into the recency bias lmao, because they are. I just wanted to explain that there's more thought to it than that on my end.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Yeah, as a Funko collector it's pretty much impossible for me to see the "ugly" here. Also, it actually is a variety of Funko anyway.

Anyway, let's talk about Smash Bros. for some reason. I feel like the "bare minimum" I need to be content with FP2 is either one more first-party character, or Crash Bandicoot. Gut feeling, what are my odds? Do you have a bare minimum of your own?

Considering I am only confident in Rex and Crash rn, I think you will be happy.

My bare minimum was met already. I got . I got most of the characters I really really wanted or were pipe dreams. Honestly I would just be fine with Crash. That honestly is all i need. Obviously if i got Neku and Heavy I would be over the moon but I would be happy with Crash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, some won't accept anything but "my way or the highway" style of views. Unfortunate, but that's just how it is. It's a bit of a problem because people try to feel entitled to only one possibility, when that's not how it works. Never mind that Mii costumes are blatantly fanservice anyway. Anyone trying to claim it's a "slap in the face" has no idea how development works. They are 100% meant to please the fans. Obviously people should only be pleased if it's content they want, but that's a different type of thing.

Thankfully that's not everyone either. Some are way more open-ended about these things and just simply understand you can't always get what you want, heh.

Special caveat is that "you should be satisfied" is also a terrible argument to make and basically gatekeeping and borderline trolling. There is no reason you should have to be happy unless it's what you want. Understanding it's not meant to be a disservice is blatantly a different thing from being happy. I wish people would stop trying to correlate the idea of being happy with what you got as the same as understanding things don't work out for you.

Fine line and all, heh.

 

[Idon]

If you find Lloyd unlikely because the other Namco costumes were not included in his hypothetical pack...

Then shouldn't the same logic apply to Monster Hunter? We've been getting Capcom costumes for ages now.

I just find the whole thing to be hypocritical. I find the whole error in logic to be due to "recency bias" with Rise' announcement.

Then shouldn't the same logic apply to Monster Hunter?

Sorry Lloyd, but if this is what it takes to get Dante...

 

[StrangeKitten]

As I had stated before, the vocal Smash fandom’s idea of “niche” translates to “I don’t know this character, ergo, me and the rest of the fanbase despises them and wants them gone,” even though that’s explicitly not the case. So yeah, you worded it pretty much perfectly.

Is Saber super popular in Japan? I'm American and I'm only just now hearing about this character, and I'd be surprised if a lot of Americans know her. Did I miss something? Because she certainly seems like she'd be niche as far as the west goes.

 

[MooMew64]

Allow me to use an example of a game I adore to convey my thoughts on the topic of ATs, Spirits, and Mii Costumes, and how they represent a character to me:

I love Hotel Dusk to pieces. It's an incredible game, but oh boy is it the very definition of obscure: Heck, the company that made the two Kyle Hyde games isn't even around any more. However, Kyle not only managed to be in as a trophy and a Spirit, they gave him the honor of being the series first animated trophy! It to this day still makes me so happy that this incredible game was officially acknowledged in some way by Sakurai and his talented team, and while it may not be a playable fighter, it's still really cool in my book!

For a popular example, Waluigi is an AT. Would I like him playable? Absolutely, but being able to see him at all, and even have him fight alongside me as a summon or as a Spirit is super fun to me because in the end, I still get to see and enjoy Waluigi antics in this game. His Mii hat is also really fun for goofy costumes.

Making video games is hard. Really, really hard, so I personally like to try and find something to enjoy in all aspects of a game and appreciate the hard work that went in to it. Those Mii Costumes, ATs, and Spirits weren't meant to slight anyone...If anything, they were an olive branch with the intent of acknowledging the character has fans and made their mark in gaming, whether it be big or small.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Allow me to use an example of a game I adore to convey my thoughts on the topic of ATs, Spirits, and Mii Costumes, and how they represent a character to me:

I love Hotel Dusk to pieces. It's an incredible game, but oh boy is it the very definition of obscure: Heck, the company that made the two Kyle Hyde games isn't even around any more. However, Kyle not only managed to be in as a trophy and a Spirit, they gave him the honor of being the series first animated trophy! It to this day still makes me so happy that this incredible game was officially acknowledged in some way by Sakurai and his talented team, and while it may not be a playable fighter, it's still really cool in my book!

For a popular example, Waluigi is an AT. Would I like him playable? Absolutely, but being able to see him at all, and even have him fight alongside me as a summon or as a Spirit is super fun to me because in the end, I still get to see and enjoy Waluigi antics in this game. His Mii hat is also really fun for goofy costumes.

Making video games is hard. Really, really hard, so I personally like to try and find something to enjoy in all aspects of a game and appreciate the hard work that went in to it. Those Mii Costumes, ATs, and Spirits weren't meant to slight anyone...If anything, they were an olive branch with the intent of acknowledging the character has fans and made their mark in gaming, whether it be big or small.

his trophy in 4 was animated? I didn't know that (prob cuz i didnt get it)

 

[PLATINUM7]

his trophy in 4 was animated? I didn't know that (prob cuz i didnt get it)

His trophy in Brawl.

EDIT: In case of broken image

 

[Rie Sonomura]

His trophy in Brawl.

Didn’t get it in brawl either but wow that’s neat

 

[CureParfait]

Here is an example of ugly Kingdom Hearts merchandise

I'm sure that Nintendo would be able to cooperate with Disney if Sora were to happen, It can't get worse than whatever the fresh hell that thing is

That is the most uncanny Sora figure I've ever seen.

 

[Strife]

here's the brutal truth: Geno. doesn't. matter.
im not insulting his game or how fond people are of him but in the grand scheme of videogame legacy and history, he doesnt matter. Look at the new chaarcter inclusions in smash DLC history he'd be the only character that is all of these things: one-off character, he'd be the only nonprotagonist, he didnt redefine the industry or a genre within the industry. He's a footnote in two companies' vast library of achievements and innovations.

If Nintendo is choosing characters for DLC characters like Waluigi and Geno are likely done. Nintendo in general clearly doesn't care about Waluigi. as some people have stated that may be due to his creation coming outside of their scope and plan.

You bring up a good point that if Geno was selected he'd be the most obscure pick out of everyone currently included in the game. He was not a protagonist, only had a major role in one game, and his game is not current. He is really only being considered because of fan demand, but the other characters that gone in due to fan demand(King K Rool, Ridley, Banjo) had a lot more going for them across multiple games.

I was thinking Geno would get be selected(next too) as the retro pick of the pass Like Banjo was, but in the case they do want another retro pick and its not Geno, then who else would even qualify in that space? A lot of the characters who were at the height of there popularity along the same time as Banjo(Crash & Lara Croft for example) aren't retro picks as they've had games out recently. I can't think of a single character who would fit this mold, so at the very least you would need to recognize that Geno is the most likely candidate for a retro pick(unless I am missing something)

Personally, I think that freebie was terry and he already got it.

You don't think Sakurai would get a freebie in this pass as well? If he does then I could totally see Geno being that pick this time around.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

while we're on the topic of whacky trophies, in 4, Warioware and Rhythm Heaven's held a fun distinction assuming they were 2d where if you rotated them, the art would change

I always loved when they went the extra effort with trophies like with these and the aforementioned Kyle Hyde one

 

[cashregister9]

I just really miss trophies ;_;

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I just really miss trophies ;_;

I never cared much about the 3D factor, but the descriptions were fun. And the amount of localization that had inaccuracies is fun trivia too. Did you know Young Link is supposed to be cited from OOT and MM, not The Legend of Zelda? Gives a far bigger perspective on the character's point. I don't remember the actual Japanese trophy description though.