Which is worse? Wobbling or Brawl chain grabbing?
Brawl. Agreeing with
Swamp Sensei
- but to go into more detail:
In Melee, wobbling was a powerful technique (to the point it - eventually - got banned) but Icies didn't have as powerful tools to approach or camp people out. Peach is considered an especially difficult matchup there because her float (and floatcancels) can avoid any attempts to grab, and Peach's Down Smash deals broken amounts of damage in Melee. Fox, Marth and Ganondorf* are also difficult for them because they have ways to space out the Climbers or separate them. And Melee in general is a punish-heavy game: sure, the Climbers can beat up other characters hard on one mistake, but one mistake on their part and it's heavy damage or even KOs.
*(Icies are even with Falcon - Ganondorf's extra power is bad news for Icies)
Brawl, however,
hoo boy:
-
Standing grab has less startup lag (frame 7 → 6).
-
Dash grab has more startup lag (frame 7 → 8).
-
The partner is now controlled by the player rather than the AI when grabbing a foe, enabling the player to effectively control the direction in which to throw the foe, significantly extending chaingrabs and allowing for easy kill setups. This means that despite the removal of Wobbling, the Ice Climbers can still effectively zero-death the entire cast which while more difficult to perform, it still remains inescapable and is overall more versatile.
Also:
While the Ice Climbers' grounded movement was reduced, the rest of the cast received the same treatment and some of the moves which gave the Ice Climbers the most trouble (such as
Fox's Shine and
Peach's down smash) have been significantly nerfed making it harder for opponents to play around their grabs and separate them. Lastly, Blizzard is a much stronger tool than in
Melee and can be a strong tool to allow the Ice Climbers to grab their opponents.
Oh and Brawl's changes hard-countered Ganondorf's (and Falcon's) playstyle.
The Blizzard buffs allow Brawl Icies to consistently wall most other characters out (together with Ice Shots) and as the blurb notes, set up grabs. Also, another thing to note is that random tripping can theoretically break the chainthrows in Brawls (it's the only possible break in fact -
if a character gets grabbed by a Brawl Icies that knows the chainthrows the only hope is that one of the Icies trips) - but Icies can counter that by doing the chainthrows while walking.
The flipside to this is that if the opponent trips? Brawl Icies can either Blizzard or Ice Shot to camp or set up those chainthrows. In fact, many of Brawl's high / top tiers have good ways to punish if an opponent trips. And Meta Knight can just ignore tripping (and shut down Icies) by air camping.
While there are quite a few characters that can chainthrow in Brawl
( shut down so hard), the Icies are unparralled because of how deadly they could be. It's no wonder that Sakurai and co. made sure to remove tripping and chaingrabbing entirely in Sm4sh - and no wonder that they inserted the cheering animation when Icies returned in Ultimate.
(I wrote about Brawl's changes
last Friday if anyone wants a further read. I also recommend ESAM's "
Why Brawl is NOT the worst Smash game" and Mew2King's / Salem's
three part Brawl tier list. Those videos are from pros' POV, yes, but they highlight a lot of Brawl's mechanics.)
Yes.
Also, Evil Ice Climbers should have one of these two as EVERY special move. It just locks you into an infinite.
Okay, so Evil Ice Climbers would have the ability to wobble, chainthrow, Brawl's Blizzard to set up those grabs and the ability to use the Freeze Glitch:
And voila, no one's going to want to approach them ever.
They just need the ability to wavedash or Koopabackdashwaveslide hoverwalkmoonland (an
actual technique in Melee, but mostly used to style because it's really difficult to do even for pros) to truly encapsulate the "Evil" angle.