Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly. How is Smash a party game?

It has some party aspects to it, but I wouldn't consider it a full on party game.

The characters aren't having fun, they are beating each-other up to win. It doesn't really feel like a party, despite the items and RNG.

Fighting games have RNG in it too.

The party genre doesn't refer to a specific style of game, but rather, any pick up and play kind of game that can be enjoyed by a lot of people at once, so in that sense, Super Smash Bros. is absolutely a party game. It's still a fighting game, but it is also a party game.

Newcomers like Sora, Crash, Kratos, Chief (in base game) would go along way at making up for Deep Cuts like Cloud, Banjo, alot of FE Characters, and Peach, among others

Hol' up. You think Peach of all characters is a likely cut?

 

[N3ON]

Eh maybe.

Not every fighting game focuses on bringing in newcomers.

Some recent examples include Base SFV and MvCI.

Weren't there only like... sixteen characters in base SFV? And a quarter of them were new. That's not a terrible ratio. Certainly better than Ultimate's base.

And idk if MvCI is something that ought to be emulated. They kinda notoriously held off on base newcomers to their own detriment; we didn't even get far enough to see all the characters they had planned. MvC3, on the other hand, brought in quite a few newcomers.

I do feel like the best barometer to judge Smash is Smash though.

 

[Deleted member]

The party genre doesn't refer to a specific style of game, but rather, any pick up and play kind of game that can be enjoyed by a lot of people at once, so in that sense, Super Smash Bros. is absolutely a party game. It's still a fighting game, but it is also a party game.

Oh, that makes sense.

 

[N3ON]

Another thing you have to keep in mind when comparing Smash to something like Street Fighter is that newcomers in SF don't hold the same capital as ones in Smash, because the former provides totally new creations, which have no existing fandom surrounding them. People gravitating towards what they knew endears them to the veterans that have proven popular in the past, while many newcomers never catch on.

Smash only operates with known quantities, so every character is going to be one that's already known, and most are those with fandoms behind them. So that gives a weight to a Smash newcomer that a Street Fighter newcomer lacks.

I mean, Street Fighter sort of got a taste of what Smash does every time when they added Akira - a fan favourite existing character that's a newcomer to the series. And people were elated. That's Smash whole deal.

Now MvC is more similar in that it uses existing characters... which is why people are generally excited about the prospects of newcomers to that series. And that was one of the reasons MvCI stumbled out of the gate. But the Smash fanbase is also more insane than the MvC fanbase, so we turn up things to eleven. Which is why Nintendo realizes they can basically bookend their E3 presentations with DLC to a game that came out the year before.

And that's why I think they'll maintain a strong focus on newcomers, even if the series reboots itself.

 

[7NATOR]

Hol' up. You think Peach of all characters is a likely cut?

I was just listing examples. but honestly, if the Cuts have to go that deep, I could see Peach getting cut. Like if the base roster only had 2 or 3 Mario Characters, I see Mario and Bowser, and everyone else put into question

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think no matter which direction the future of Smash goes, I think we should all come to agreement that non of the Original 12 should ever be cut.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I was just listing examples. but honestly, if the Cuts have to go that deep, I could see Peach getting cut. Like if the base roster only had 2 or 3 Mario Characters, I see Mario and Bowser, and everyone else put into question

Judging by the fact that Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds/Wii U had around 50 characters while making two versions of the game, I'd expect that many out of the next game. We may see some deep cuts to make room for the newcomers, but characters that are there only as series staples like Sheik are likely as deep as they'll get. I don't think the Super Mario series would need to be reduced to 2 characters unless they do some sort of games as a service kind of deal and the base roster is just the original 12 + the two characters that were cut from the first game.

I think no matter which direction the future of Smash goes, I think we should all come to agreement that non of the Original 12 should ever be cut.

Good luck in making that happen. I'm pretty sure most people don't feel this way because Jigglypuff exists.

 

[7NATOR]

I think no matter which direction the future of Smash goes, I think we should all come to agreement that non of the Original 12 should ever be cut.

Being Completely honest, I would cut Jigglypuff. Hell even Sakurai was considering it during Brawl, as she almost didn't make the cut during that game

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Good luck in making that happen. I'm pretty sure most people don't feel this way because Jigglypuff exists.

I mean, I don't like Jiggs myself that much as I wish Mewtwo was focused and added over her in both 64 and Brawl instead of being cut. But she is part of the Original 12 so she shouldn't be touched.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I personally think that the original 12 should stay no matter what. Yes, even Jigglypuff. They're the world warriors of the Super Smash Bros. series. You can't just not have them.

 

[rcp24]

Ultimate adding every character back was everything I ever wanted, so characters most likely being cut in the next Smash game already makes me not excited for it. At least it is years away at this point.

 

[7NATOR]

I personally think that the original 12 should stay no matter what. Yes, even Jigglypuff. They're the world warriors of the Super Smash Bros. series. You can't just not have them.

Street Fighter doesn't even abide by this Law though. The first SFA did not have all the World Warriors. SF3 only had 4 by 3rd strike. as for SF5, it took until the 4th Season for E.Honda, the last World warrior to Show up

If it came between a Potential Newcomer and Jigglypuf, I'd rather they just Cut Jigglypuff entirely. It also doesn't help that Pokemon has 100's of Other Options that could be interesting

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Speaking of cut Smash 64 characters, they just added Bowser in the Smash Remix mod as well as Giga Bowser:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Street Fighter doesn't even abide by this Law though. The first SFA did not have all the World Warriors. SF3 only had 4 by 3rd strike. as for SF5, it took until the 4th Season for E.Honda, the last World warrior to Show up

If it came between a Potential Newcomer and Jigglypuf, I'd rather they just Cut Jigglypuff entirely. It also doesn't help that Pokemon has 100's of Other Options that could be interesting

I still stand by my statement.

Besides, Jigglypuff is the most interesting Pokémon they have and ever will add unless their philosophy of only adding the hot new starter changes.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I still believe that, if Smash 6 comes along and they want to try to either match or one-up Ultimate's roster, their best bet would be to make it a full-on crossover game with another company's characters, like Super Smash Bros. Vs. Capcom.

Granted, there's still the obvious downside of cuts (especially since a crossover means there has to be room for an equal amount of characters from the other side), but a crossover would make up for it with a lot of newcomers that would otherwise never make it into a "regular" Smash game (for example, Morrigan from Darkstalkers has only a slim chance at best for Smash Ultimate, but for Smash Vs. Capcom? She's more or less guaranteed for that).

 

[extremeturkey]

I am going to say it, but...

All of you take Smash Bros. speculation too seriously.

If your character doesn't get in, you're not going to die.

There are other games to play and other experiences in life.

I am not saying we should not have Smash speculation, but it's just a game, not your life.

yeah fr I see people on this website who seem to spend multiple hours here

every
literal
day

for months on end


talking about what they think is evidence what they want is going to happen with regards to a downloadable fighter for this 2-year-old game.

And at a certain point, it becomes really weird to me. Because I'm pretty sure these people are spending more time arguing and trying to coax hope than they would spend actually playing the game itself.

 

[Shroob]

yeah fr I see people on this website who seem to spend multiple hours here

every
literal
day

for months on end


talking about what they think is evidence what they want is going to happen with regards to a downloadable fighter for this 2-year-old game.

And at a certain point, it becomes really weird to me. Because I'm pretty sure these people are spending more time arguing and trying to coax hope than they would spend actually playing the game itself.

I mean, you're not wrong.


I'm ****ing dog**** in Smash, but I love the speculation aspect of it. It's fun.

 

[ZelDan]

I don't necessarily want Jigglypuff cut and I am fine with her remaining.

I also wouldn't be terribly upset if she did get cut.

That's basically my feelings towards Puff.

 

[7NATOR]

I still believe that, if Smash 6 comes along and they want to try to either match or one-up Ultimate's roster, their best bet would be to make it a full-on crossover game with another company's characters, like Super Smash Bros. Vs. Capcom.

Granted, there's still the obvious downside of cuts (especially since a crossover means there has to be room for an equal amount of characters from the other side), but a crossover would make up for it with a lot of newcomers that would otherwise never make it into a "regular" Smash game (for example, Morrigan from Darkstalkers has only a slim chance at best for Smash Ultimate, but for Smash Vs. Capcom? She's more or less guaranteed for that).

Super Smash Bros Vs. Anime

Instant Money right there. We could finally officially have Mario Vs. Goku

 

[extremeturkey]

Ngl talking about the same 4-7 characters every other week has gotten pretty boring over the few months I’ve actively participated in this thread. I prefer to just pop in, ask a question or two, then go on and do other things that are more important in the moment.

It's funny how characters come and go in and out of vogue without any rhyme/reason. Especially a year ago when people were so certain Dante would be announced next....wtf

 

[N3ON]

yeah fr I see people on this website who seem to spend multiple hours here

every
literal
day

for months on end


talking about what they think is evidence what they want is going to happen with regards to a downloadable fighter for this 2-year-old game.

And at a certain point, it becomes really weird to me. Because I'm pretty sure these people are spending more time arguing and trying to coax hope than they would spend actually playing the game itself.

I undoubtably spend more time on here than I do playing the game, because once I've unlocked everything I used to mostly only play socially. But that's not exactly been a super common occurrence this year.

I'm just stuck at home a lot these days, hiding from the plague and puttering around my apartment while working from home, so I'm afforded a lot of opportunities to get distracted and wind up here.

But on the other hand, I've never lost sight that it's just a game. It's bad news when you do. I mean, obviously I'm invested in it, but there's a difference between being invested in the game and being invested in an outcome. If you're invested in an outcome to the point it's wearing on you, it's time to step back. Meanwhile there are characters I'd like to see and characters that I wouldn't like to see, but I'm just content to be along for this last ride.

At least until I can get back to a more normal life elsewhere.

I am done after this game though. I can't do it all again. Plus, no offence, but the fanbase as a whole is harder to take than it used to be.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

It's funny how characters come and go in and out of vogue without any rhyme/reason. Especially a year ago when people were so certain Dante would be announced next....wtf

Remember when everyone was dead set convinced that KOS-MOS was happening? Good times.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Here’s something fun to talk about: Take every series that has exactly one fighter in Smash and give them a second character.

I'm gonna be a cheat and have echoes stacked so I can add SF and CV lmao
Erik
Leona
Rodin
Terra
Maya
Doc Louis
Zero
Dr. Coyle
Shanoa
Elma
Juri
Raiden
Blaze
Ashley

 

[Shroob]

I undoubtably spend more time on here than I do playing the game, because once I've unlocked everything I used to mostly only play socially. But that's not exactly been a super common occurrence this year.

I'm just stuck at home a lot these days, hiding from the plague and puttering around my apartment while working from home, so I'm afforded a lot of opportunities to get distracted and wind up here.

But on the other hand, I've never lost sight that it's just a game. It's bad news when you do. I mean, obviously I'm invested in it, but there's a difference between being invested in the game and being invested in an outcome. If you're invested in an outcome to the point it's wearing on you, it's time to step back. Meanwhile there are characters I'd like to see and characters that I wouldn't like to see, but I'm just content to be along for this last ride.

At least until I can get back to a more normal life elsewhere.

I am done after this game though. I can't do it all again. Plus, no offence, but the fanbase as a whole is harder to take than it used to be.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head in that last bit for me.


I've been in this rodeo since Brawl was announced, this is my last dance in regards to speculation, though I'll definitely still stick around here when all's said and done.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I still feel pretty good about us getting some sort of Smash news this week.

 

[Shroob]

I still feel pretty good about us getting some sort of Smash news this week.

If only any of us were smart enough to figure out how the damn Directory update thing worked.



Like, who the **** even had their eye on the Directory, and how did they know the page was modified? Did someone just like, have that add-on that tells you when a page is updated or something?....are we THAT desperate for news? lol



I want to get excited, but at the same time, there's always the possibility that "We got an update before the Mario Direct and a day later, but the page updates all the time and we just don't realize it."

 

[DarthEnderX]

Here’s something fun to talk about: Take every series that has exactly one fighter in Smash and give them a second character.

1. Yoshi - No
2. F-Zero - Black Shadow
3. Ice Climber - No
4. Game & Watch - No
5. WarioWare - No
6. Metal Gear - Raiden
7. Sonic the Hedgehog - Shadow
8. Pikmin - No
9. R.O.B. - No
10. Mega Man - Zero
11. Wii Fit - No
12. PUNCH-OUT!! - King Hippo
13. Mii - Mii Mage
14. PAC-MAN - No
15. Xenoblade Chronicles - Elma
16. Duck Hunt - No
17. Final Fantasy VII - Sephiroth
18. Bayonetta - Jeanne
19. Splatoon - Octolings
20. Persona 5 - No
21. Dragon Quest - Psaro
22. Banjo-Kazooie - No
23. Fatal Fury - Geese
24. ARMS - Spring Man

What is all this wanting discount Batman over Samurai Goroh you philistines

Smarten up, this is unacceptable

I only want F-Zero to get an Echo, and Goroh is no Echo.

 

[NintenRob]

1. Yoshi - No
2. F-Zero - Black Shadow
3. Ice Climber - No
4. Game & Watch - No
5. WarioWare - No
6. Metal Gear - Raiden
7. Sonic the Hedgehog - Shadow
8. Pikmin - No
9. R.O.B. - No
10. Mega Man - Zero
11. Wii Fit - No
12. PUNCH-OUT!! - King Hippo
13. Mii - Mii Mage
14. PAC-MAN - No
15. Xenoblade Chronicles - Elma
16. Duck Hunt - No
17. Final Fantasy VII - Sephiroth
18. Bayonetta - Jeanne
19. Splatoon - Octolings
20. Persona 5 - No
21. Dragon Quest - Psaro
22. Banjo-Kazooie - No
23. Fatal Fury - Geese
24. ARMS - Spring Man

I only want F-Zero to get an Echo, and Goroh is no Echo.

Wow, everyone has their opinion, but emphasis Mega Man with Zero newcomers just seems mean
kidding

 

[Will]

F-Zero - Black Shadow

people be saying black shadow doesn't have a moveset like the anime isn't a gold mine

 

[super88cloud]

I still feel pretty good about us getting some sort of Smash news this week.

Next week,maybe the weekend of this week for an announcement to the smash presentation.
That last server maintenance is suspect.

----
About that another rep from series with one rep
X means I don´t care or no one comes to mind

1. Yoshi- I don´t know
2. F-Zero- Goroh or Black Shadow
3. Ice Climber X
4. Game & Watch X
5. WarioWare (also includes the Wario Land series) X
6. Metal Gear Cyborg Ninja
7. Sonic the Hedgehog Tails or Shadow
8. Pikmin X
9. R.O.B. (includes the Robot series of games) X
10. Mega Man- Zero or Protoman. Megaman X
11. Wii Fit X
12. PUNCH-OUT!! King Hippo
13. Mii (I imagine this would include things like Wii Sports, Tomodachi Life, and Miitopia.)
    • In game, the Mii's series is Super Smash Bros. so um...take your pick I guess. X
14. PAC-MAN X
15. Xenoblade Chronicles- No one
16. Duck Hunt (also includes the other Light Gun series games) X
17. Final Fantasy VII: No one from 7, maybe Vivi or Terra.
18. Bayonetta X
19. Splatoon X
20. Persona 5: A shin megami tensei rep.
21. Dragon Quest X
22. Banjo-Kazooie : another rare REP
23. Fatal Fury: Another Snk rep. Marco or Iori
24. ARMS X

 

[DarthEnderX]

people be saying black shadow doesn't have a moveset like the anime isn't a gold mine

I just want him to be OG Ganondorf so Ganondorf can finally get a unique moveset.

 

[Staarih]

Another thing you have to keep in mind when comparing Smash to something like Street Fighter is that newcomers in SF don't hold the same capital as ones in Smash, because the former provides totally new creations, which have no existing fandom surrounding them. People gravitating towards what they knew endears them to the veterans that have proven popular in the past, while many newcomers never catch on.

Smash only operates with known quantities, so every character is going to be one that's already known, and most are those with fandoms behind them. So that gives a weight to a Smash newcomer that a Street Fighter newcomer lacks.

Yeah, but somrtimes I wish Smash newcomers would be viewed more like other fighting game characters since most of time the character overshadows the move set potential, though I guess that's just the nature of Smash. Instead of getting a new character and being like "wow they look fun to play as", it's more like "wow this character I like/don't like got added". I feel like this applies to characters like Geno, not saying if he should or should not be in, but he's kinda seen as a random character with no merits compared to many others, but... what if he was fun to play as? Smash has set itself up for the character-first mentality though with the "celebration of gaming" etc and I love it, but I'm also up for almost any character if they're fun.

 

[Shroob]

Yeah, but somrtimes I wish Smash newcomers would be viewed more like other fighting game characters since most of time the character overshadows the move set potential, though I guess that's just the nature of Smash. Instead of getting a new character and being like "wow they look fun to play as", it's more like "wow this character I like/don't like got added". I feel like this applies to characters like Geno, not saying if he should or should not be in, but he's kinda seen as a random character with no merits compared to many others, but... what if he was fun to play as? Smash has set itself up for the character-first mentality though with the "celebration of gaming" etc and I love it, but I'm also up for almost any character if they're fun.

I think the issue is that fun is an entirely subjective term. You can have a character you love turn out not at all how you wanted(A lot of Banjo fans fell into this category I feel), while you can have a character you dislike be fun as hell to play. It's all subjective in the end.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I just want him to be OG Ganondorf so Ganondorf can finally get a unique moveset.

That's kinda unfortunate for Black Shadow....

Not wanting him cause you like him, but you're hoping another character can get changed...

 

[osby]

I think the issue is that fun is an entirely subjective term. You can have a character you love turn out not at all how you wanted(A lot of Banjo fans fell into this category I feel), while you can have a character you dislike be fun as hell to play. It's all subjective in the end.

Then you have characters' reception clouding the judgment about their moveset.

How many times does a character get hit by the "ugh, another X clone" just because they weren't the super-duper popular fan-favorite that people convinced themselves they were getting by sure?

I just want him to be OG Ganondorf so Ganondorf can finally get a unique moveset.

I don't really understand why so many people think like this. It's not like Lucina getting in magically gave Roy a unique moveset.

 

[DarthEnderX]

That's kinda unfortunate for Black Shadow....

Not wanting him cause you like him, but you're hoping another character can get changed...

I don't think he minds, he's fictional.

But Ganondorf is WAY more important and doesn't deserve to be someone's semiclone.

I don't really understand why so many people think like this. It's not like Lucina getting in magically gave Roy a unique moveset.

But it should have.

 

[Polan]

these old bones feel smash news incoming. probably not in a general direct tho since nintendo seems allergic to them. but i feel it coming.

 

[keleyeemoh]

If we're talking about cuts, here's who I would cut if I were in charge and if I had to make cuts. Obviously, I would rather keep everyone always. But if I had no choice, as a thought experiment, here's who it would be:



I picked these for various reasons: lack of variety, irrelevance, wishing I could replace them with someone else, etc. Sorry if I picked one of your favorites. I also eliminated multiple characters from some of my favorite franchises. It was, again, a thought experiment.

 

[I.D.]

Byleth and all of Three Houses had 3D models they could've reused, but to my knowledge they all got new models for Smash Bros.

Three Houses also happens to be the worst looking first party game on the switch.

 

[Shroob]

these old bones feel smash news incoming. probably not in a general direct tho since nintendo seems allergic to them. but i feel it coming.

Pretty certain there's not gonna be a general Direct for the rest of the year, that seems like a fairly safe bet.

IF, and only if, the Directory **** is actually legit and not just a dumb coincidence, we could be looking at a Mini like March, but I wouldn't say anything higher than a mini.



If we're lucky, Mini this week to coincide with the Directory being updated, and a Sakurai presents either Directly after or next week during Maintenance, but at the same time, we currently lack hard evidence to know if the Directory thing is a legit piece of evidence, or a lucky coincidence.



I say Mini because, we just had a Partner Showcase not even 2 weeks ago(Or has it been like a little over 2 now?), and Sakurai Presents aren't hosted on the Directory.