Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Scoliosis Jones]

Hey, just wondering if anyone knows something. Someone mentioned that before some dlc characters's release, there were some bugs that happened around the base characters that were used for the new ones.

Anybody know what those bugs were that showed up, and for which characters?

That’s a whole lot of nothing. There’s nothing to prove it, and I think there’s actually indications that it’s NOT the case.

EDIT: Bayo had a glitch before Min Min, but they actually used Captain Falcon as a base iirc, meaning there was no connection between Bayo and Min Min.

Same thing for the suggested Duck Hunt base for Banjo, which also is not the case.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think we need to take a step back and talk about something else.

Hey, just wondering if anyone knows something. Someone mentioned that before some dlc characters's release, there were some bugs that happened around the base characters that were used for the new ones.

Anybody know what those bugs were that showed up, and for which characters?

We don't know who was used as a base for what (except Bowser Jr. for Piranha Plant apparently). There are a few glithes we've had over time such as graphical glitches for Bayonetta and Ness as well as more serious glitches like the one Piranha Plant had. There was also one for Mii Swordfighter, but like the others, I don't think they amounted to anything.

 

[Teeb147]

That’s a whole lot of nothing. There’s nothing to prove it, and I think there’s actually indications that it’s NOT the case.

EDIT: Bayo had a glitch before Min Min, but they actually used Captain Falcon as a base iirc, meaning there was no connection between Bayo and Min Min.

Same thing for the suggested Duck Hunt base for Banjo, which also is not the case.

That's if they only used one character as base. I think it's possible they used more than one. But I don't really know.

Bayonetta shortly before Min Min's reveal (outfit wouldn't unravel when attacking), Ness (his eyes disappear), Daisy (skirt clips short)

I THINK I've seen people report a glitch with Lucina's hair but I don't think it's one of those glitches, just a fluke

That's cool. Before which character releases did ness and daisy have those?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

my theory is that the glitches don't denote the base but rather someone who the new character borrows several animations from. Banjo supposedly used Ridley as a base [citation STILL needed, I'm waiting] but I do see some animation similarities with Duck Hunt. I can see some of Bayo's animations in Min Min too

now who could borrow from Ness and Daisy...

 

[cashregister9]

now who could borrow from Ness and Daisy...

REIMU TIME

You could probably use some of Ness' PSI attacks for magic and the Baseball bat for a Gohei and Daisy had that weird Dress glitch when floating, Reimu has a shorter skirt than default Daisy and would probably float

 

[Deleted member]

now who could borrow from Ness

Hmm, I wonder who it could be?

Spoiler

 

[Teeb147]

my theory is that the glitches don't denote the base but rather someone who the new character borrows several animations from. Banjo supposedly used Ridley as a base [citation STILL needed, I'm waiting] but I do see some animation similarities with Duck Hunt. I can see some of Bayo's animations in Min Min too

now who could borrow from Ness and Daisy...

That makes sense. And animations would fit with what some of those bugs did right?

Still wondering about the ones with ness and daisy. was that also for min min, or before a new character?

 

[Calamitas]

Who antagonises Ash, Pikachu, and his friends throughout the entire anime?

I do, hate that ****ing rat

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Glitches are glitches

let's not overthink things, please

If this keeps supposedly happening with Ultimate, you'd think it would've happened with 4 too

 

[Rie Sonomura]

That makes sense. And animations would fit with what some of those bugs did right?

Still wondering about the ones with ness and daisy. was that also for min min, or before a new character?

Ness happened at the same time as Bayonetta. Daisy was post Min Min I believe

 

[Teeb147]

Ness happened at the same time as Bayonetta. Daisy was post Min Min I believe

Ok so still new. And the banjo thing. was that an animation glitch with duckhunt dog?

If it's with animations borrowed, not base characters, then it could make sense.

 

[Captain Fun]

I’m curious as to why you say this- I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just curious.

Unless you bring “insider” evidence into the conversation, I don’t see a reason that Geno should be chosen over Waluigi. I don’t want to debate Geno vs Waluigi, just what makes Geno likely and Waluigi unlikely as individuals

Well, I guess for Geno there's the absence of his Mii costume/Mario RPG music. That's not a huge point in his favor though since Heihachi's costume was "missing" until it wasn't. As far as Waluigi goes, I personally don't see us getting any assist trophies as fighters this time around.

It's just a gut feeling, rather than something that's based on any real evidence though. For what it's worth, I don't have any personal stake in Geno, and I'd love to see Waluigi get in. I don't think it needs to be a contest between them.

 

[-crump-]

I’m sure the Mario Direct has been talked over to death at this point, but I can’t get over this one thing:

According to most of the credible leaks, Nintendo was going to be basing their E3 presence around Mario’s 35th anniversary. Makes sense, but is what they showed really what they were planning to waltz into E3 with? Bare minimum ports of 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy, and an enhanced 3D World port? That was always going to be their crown jewel of the year?
I’m kinda glad E3 didn’t happen in that case, because it would have been embarrassing.

 

[Karen6969]

If we are talking about the Pokemon anime, I don't see how Mewtwo fits the role as the "main" villain for the Pokemon reps.

Who antagonises Ash, Pikachu, and his friends throughout the entire anime? Team Rocket.

Mewtwo only comes into conflict with Ash for some movies and maybe a few episodes.

I mean you’re not wrong but in the context of smash he’s the villain for the Pokémon reps. No one questions whether King K Rool is a villain or not and he hasn’t been the villain in a DK game in forever. He’s still the villain of the DK reps in smash though

 

[N3ON]

I’m sure the Mario Direct has been talked over to death at this point, but I can’t get over this one thing:

According to most of the credible leaks, Nintendo was going to be basing their E3 presence around Mario’s 35th anniversary. Makes sense, but is what they showed really what they were planning to waltz into E3 with? Bare minimum ports of 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy, and an enhanced 3D World port? That was always going to be their crown jewel of the year?
I’m kinda glad E3 didn’t happen in that case, because it would have been embarrassing.

Depends what else they had to show. It wasn't just going to be Mario.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean you’re not wrong but in the context of smash he’s the villain for the Pokémon reps. No one questions whether King K Rool is a villain or not and he hasn’t been the villain in a DK game in forever. He’s still the villain of the DK reps in smash though

King K. Rool is a pretty major villain, and he was heavily requested by fans.

Mewtwo is just a villain for one Pokemon movie.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I think that Banjo-Kazooie was probably a bit expensive, we didn’t get any other Rare content as song or spirits.

Moreover, I think that western companies are more greedy than japanese ones, so licensing a western rep would be more costly than a japanese one. I don’t think if Nintendo ask for X character, any developer/publisher would deny it, but the price...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean you’re not wrong but in the context of smash he’s the villain for the Pokémon reps. No one questions whether King K Rool is a villain or not and he hasn’t been the villain in a DK game in forever. He’s still the villain of the DK reps in smash though

The difference is that Mewtwo has never been a villain in the games, but King K. Rool has been in all of his mainline appearances. I personally don't think Mewtwo is a villain in Super Smash Bros. either.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest were only as expensive as they were because there are a lot of hands in the pot and they're massive, multibillion dollar franchises. With the exception of KIngdom Hearts' obvious, mouse-shaped problems, I don't think any other Square series would suffer the same fate.

That being said, the reality of Nintendo not having an infinitely deep purse for the purposes of Smash licensing is a realistic factor. There's only so much money can be budgeted towards big IPs before corporate suits start raising some eyebrows. Even looking at the last pass, we got 4 new third party characters but only one was a major money sink. The other three all hailed from fan favourite yet smaller franchises.

It's why I can't help but raise eyebrows at people who are expecting a lineup of, say, Crash, Master Chief, Sora, Dante, and Kratos. I just can't see a world where Nintendo goes all in to that insane of a degree. I definitely see one of those characters within that type of tier making the cut, but two and especially more than two always feels like we're leaving the realms of reality.

Smash fans are easily spoiled by something. In this case, it's the lack of DLC newcomers that are first parties, let alone first parties that are trophies of the collectable or assist variety or spirits. "We got four third parties in pass 1 so we have to be getting five even bigger ones in pass 2" is basically the "We got Ridley, Simon, and K. Rool so we have to be getting the Grinch leak characters+Bandana Dee" of 2020.

 

[cashregister9]

Game development is hard and glitches are unavoidable. visual glitches have no rhyme or reason most of the time.

 

[Teeb147]

Game development is hard and glitches are unavoidable. visual glitches have no rhyme or reason most of the time.

If they only started after a while though, there could be a reason.

The thing that's weird though, is that if they just borrow parts from characters, they should be copying them, not tweaking them on the old characters, just the new ones. So it's a bit weird that the bugs happen.

 

[Deleted member]

Moreover, I think that western companies are more greedy than japanese ones, so licensing a western rep would be more costly than a japanese one. I don’t think if Nintendo ask for X character, any developer/publisher would deny it, but the price...

I mean Square is a Japanese company and we still have only two songs for Final Fantasy, and Final Fantasy only has two spirits. We cannot even get original art for Cloud. And these spirits are Cloud Strife himself.

Also we only have eight non-orchestral tracks for Dragon Quest.

Seems pretty greedy to me.

 

[Arcanir]

On the topic of Mewtwo, it should be noted that back in Melee they had it appear in an Event Match alongside (Giga) Bowser and Ganondorf, two major villains from their respective franchises. Additionally, Smash Mewtwo even has some lines that are clear references to its first movie appearance, albeit only in Japanese. So it is fair to see Mewtwo as a villain, or at least antagonistic, in the context of Smash since it draws much of its inspiration from the movie where it was the anti-villain of it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean Square is a Japanese company and we still have only two songs for Final Fantasy, and Final Fantasy only has two spirits. We cannot even get original art for Cloud. And these spirits are Cloud Strife himself.

Also we only have eight non-orchestral tracks for Dragon Quest.

Seems pretty greedy to me.

The first is because there are too many people that need to be coordinated with to get the rights to any particular thing, and the second is because of the series's composer, not SquareEnix themselves.

Granted, I don't think Western companies are more greedy with this sort of thing, but SquareEnix's lack of content isn't because of their own greed.

Additionally, Smash Mewtwo even has some lines that are clear references to its first movie appearance, albeit only in Japanese.

It does? The only one I remember is the incredibly generic "Why am I here?".

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I've always seen Mewtwo in the lines of an antihero withand

 

[Arcanir]

The first is because there are too many people that need to be coordinated with to get the rights to any particular thing, and the second is because of the series's composer, not SquareEnix themselves.

Granted, I don't think Western companies are more greedy with this sort of thing, but SquareEnix's lack of content isn't because of their own greed.


It does? The only one I remember is the incredibly generic "Why am I here?".

It has three lines: "Why am I here?", "Foolish!", and "I cannot afford to lose!", all three of which make sense in the context of its movie appearance. The evil laugh is also something that's more inherent to movie Mewtwo then any of its other appearances.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Regarding glitch theory also.

: 2B, Arle Nadja, Reimu


: Geno, Neku, Professor Layton

 

[KillerCage]

That makes sense. And animations would fit with what some of those bugs did right?

Still wondering about the ones with ness and daisy. was that also for min min, or before a new character?

One person comes to my mind.

 

[Perkilator]

One person comes to my mind.

View attachment 284438

You know, that reminds me; someone on Twitter made some fantastic renders of Arle, along with a couple others:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Teeb147]

One person comes to my mind.

View attachment 284438

Lol considering she's in my avatar right now, I wouldnt mind that one bit XD

 

[RileyXY1]

Glitch Theory is bogus and has been from the start.

 

[Teeb147]

Regarding glitch theory also.

: 2B, Arle Nadja, Reimu


: Geno, Neku, Professor Layton

Also. Someone found a visual glitch with k.rool's canon shot. It doesn't show the reflector animation when someone has the franklin badge.

Someone thinks it could point to Shantae because she has a canon recovery in one of her games :D

 

[DarthEnderX]

Also, pretty sure Super Mario Bros.'s underground levels are supposed to take place in a cave. If it were a pipe it would probably be green like the rest of the pipes.

Well, when it says, "inside a pipe" I imaging something like a sewer, rather than literally inside a pipe.

But yeah, I love the cave aesthetic. It's clearly what the creators intended.

Oh and wtf is up with Galaxy 2 being erased from existence? I get Land 2 but Galaxy?

You GET Land 2? It's by far the superior Land game!

So, like, can this version of SM64 be speedrun well?

Anything can be speedrun. You'll just have different times and techniques.

Dude, the conversation has moved on. You don't have to respond to people from 5+ pages ago.

People respond when they get the chance. Not everyone visits a site 5 times a day.

 

[SharkLord]

View attachment 284435
Glitches are glitches

let's not overthink things, please

If this keeps supposedly happening with Ultimate, you'd think it would've happened with 4 too

Aw, but where's the fun in that?

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I didn't have time to contribute more to today's discussion, I just got home from work. Why is Nintendo pretending like Galaxy 2 just didn't happen? I don't care that it wasn't included in the All Stars pack (even though it should've), but not even an appearance in the Direct's historical montage?

Galaxy 2 >>>> Galaxy

 

[Cosmic77]

Most glitches are completely random and unrelated to the DLC characters.

Min Min was created from Captain Falcon, who to my knowledge never had any significant glitches leading up to her. We've had three, maybe four character glitches in the past nine months that people were trying to connect to F6 (Min Min), and so far, the only one that makes sense is Bayo (and even then, her glitch may have had nothing to do with Min Min).

Maybe one of these glitches will eventually catch up to us and correspond to a new character, but I feel like they cause more confusion than anything.

 

[Dinoman96]

I think that Banjo-Kazooie was probably a bit expensive, we didn’t get any other Rare content as song or spirits.

Moreover, I think that western companies are more greedy than japanese ones, so licensing a western rep would be more costly than a japanese one. I don’t think if Nintendo ask for X character, any developer/publisher would deny it, but the price...

To be fair, Banjo's pack didn't come with additional Rare songs/spirits because it was about, well, Banjo.

Terry's pack was pretty much the only one that really celebrated his entire company. Joker's pack only came with Persona related stuff, with no references to SMT, likewise Hero's pack only celebrated Dragon Quest and not other Square-Enix IPs. So Banjo isn't really that different in that regard.

The only real question mark is the lack of any Rare/Microsoft Mii outfits. But in that case, I think Nintendo just probably didn't want to give Microsoft (who is, you know, still a competitor) additional profits outside of just Banjo's pack. They just wanted Banjo from MS to appease their older fanbase and that was it.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I've always seen Mewtwo in the lines of an antihero withand

I don't see how Bayonetta is an anti-hero.

 

[Teeb147]

Most glitches are completely random and unrelated to the DLC characters.

Min Min was created from Captain Falcon, who to my knowledge never had any significant glitches leading up to her. We've had three, maybe four character glitches in the past nine months that people were trying to connect to F6 (Min Min), and so far, the only one that makes sense is Bayo (and even then, her glitch may have had nothing to do with Min Min).

Maybe one of these glitches will eventually catch up to us and correspond to a new character, but I feel like they cause more confusion than anything.

They borrow things from different characters, not just the base one. So i dont think it matters.

Either way cant be sure it's really related to the new characters. but what else would cause animation bugs after release?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So still any evidence yet of Ridley being Banjo's base? Criterion still needed.