Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Opossum]

People keep saying a Smash addition doesn't translate to people trying the games, but I don't know, I always see threads on the Fire Emblem subreddit about people trying it for the first time due to Smash introducing them to a character they liked or mained, usually either Awakening or Three Houses, with the occasional person asking how to emulate Binding Blade.

 

[Lionfranky]

People keep saying a Smash addition doesn't translate to people trying the games, but I don't know, I always see threads on the Fire Emblem subreddit about people trying it for the first time due to Smash introducing them to a character they liked or mained, usually either Awakening or Three Houses, with the occasional person asking how to emulate Binding Blade.

This is why I think "Unpopular in Japan" is bs argument. Why can't Sakurai simply use Smash to promote western games in Japan? He said he isn't into console war, so regional segregation shouldn't be in his book.

 

[RileyXY1]

This is why I think "Unpopular in Japan" is bs argument. Why can't Sakurai simply use Smash to promote western games in Japan? He said he isn't into console war, so regional segregation shouldn't be in his book.

I guess he prefers promoting Japanese games to Western audiences. He said himself once that Smash is a celebration of Japanese gaming.

 

[Lionfranky]

I guess he prefers promoting Japanese games to Western audiences. He said himself once that Smash is a celebration of Japanese gaming.

I don't remember him saying that... didn't he simply say that Smash is celebration of gaming in general? Would you mind showing me his quote with source? I just want to confirm whether my memory is correct.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This is why I think "Unpopular in Japan" is bs argument. Why can't Sakurai simply use Smash to promote western games in Japan? He said he isn't into console war, so regional segregation shouldn't be in his book.

I think unpopular is different than unknown.

 

[Curious Villager]

I recall him stating something along those lines too, something about him wanting to promote and showcase Japanese gaming further to global audiences with Smash or something along those lines.

I believe it was in one of the translated source gaming articles.

 

[SharkLord]

This is why I think "Unpopular in Japan" is bs argument. Why can't Sakurai simply use Smash to promote western games in Japan? He said he isn't into console war, so regional segregation shouldn't be in his book.

It depends. He himself has said that he scrapped Takamaru because he was Japan-exclusive, was going to do the same Marth and Roy had the playtesters not approved of them, and would've dropped Lucas if he know Mother 3 wouldn't be localized. There's also the fact that as a Japanese developer, he would probably be more familiar with Japanese interests.

That being said, we've had some characters that have much of their popularity concentrated in one part of the world but are still available to everyone, like Little Mac, Ridley, Hero, and Terry, so we can't rule out characters just because they're more niche in one part of the world.

Bottom line; unlocalized characters like Takamaru have low choices, but characters with some degree of recent localization like Sakura Shinguji and Reimu Hakurei shouldn't be counted out.

 

[Dinoman96]

Here's the hierarchy of these things

Characters whose games released worldwide = highest chances of being playable
Characters whose games were only released in Japan = little to no chance of being playable, but still a high chance of appearing as an AT/trophy/spirit (i.e Takamaru, Lip, Sukapon, etc)
Characters whose games were only released in the West = little to no chance of appearing at all (i.e Mortal Kombat, StarTropics, etc).

 

[smashkirby]

A non video game Nintendo character I could think of is Nester, who is the mascot of the Nintendo Power magazine. He could fight using the Nes zapper and the Power glove. Honestly I'm not a fan of my own idea but if you want to add something close to Nintendo but non video game he's the one that comes to my mind. But please not as a DLC, this kind of joke character should be in the base game.

You know what's interesting? If Nester couldn't get into Smash Bros. due to being a comic book character, he does have a sort of 'loophole' he could use: The fact that he himself is the Pilotwings 64 character, Lark.
If getting into Smash the 'traditional way' wouldn't work out for him, he could technically use his 'Lark' persona from Pilotwings to give him a free pass into Smash Bros.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Here's the hierarchy of these things

Characters whose games released worldwide = highest chances of being playable
Characters whose games were only released in Japan = little to no chance of being playable, but still a high chance of appearing as an AT/trophy/spirit (i.e Takamaru, Lip, Sukapon, etc)
Characters whose games were only released in the West = little to no chance of appearing at all (i.e Mortal Kombat, StarTropics, etc).

Alright, Sgt. Cortez is safe! Thanks to TimeSplitters 2 being released in Japan!

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

Here's the hierarchy of these things

Characters whose games released worldwide = highest chances of being playable
Characters whose games were only released in Japan = little to no chance of being playable, but still a high chance of appearing as an AT/trophy/spirit (i.e Takamaru, Lip, Sukapon, etc)
Characters whose games were only released in the West = little to no chance of appearing at all (i.e Mortal Kombat, StarTropics, etc).

So far as I can tell, Smash has included content from games that never came out in Japan a grand total of ONE time in the series. One. You know what it was?

Spoiler

A sticker in Brawl of Pit as he appeared in Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters. (It came out after Brawl in Japan on VC.)

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

On the topic of non video game characters: Popeye should get the rub on that one. Man’s integral to the history of Nintendo.

On video game related topic: Team Fortress 2 content in Smash, yay or nay? I usually prefer closer ties to Nintendo but I just love TF2

 

[CureParfait]

On the topic of non video game characters: Popeye should get the rub on that one. Man’s integral to the history of Nintendo.

On video game related topic: Team Fortress 2 content in Smash, yay or nay? I usually prefer closer ties to Nintendo but I just love TF2

Yay, because Team Fortress 2 is pretty awesome and I would be happy if something from there is in Smash.

 

[SNEKeater]

People keep saying a Smash addition doesn't translate to people trying the games, but I don't know, I always see threads on the Fire Emblem subreddit about people trying it for the first time due to Smash introducing them to a character they liked or mained, usually either Awakening or Three Houses, with the occasional person asking how to emulate Binding Blade.

Same. A "promotional" character won't make every Smash player try a new game, that's impossible, but it will obviously draw some attention to said series. In my personal case, I knew about FE before starting to play Smash, but I didn't started playing the series until I started using Ike frequently. I decided to try him first because of his design, then I stuck with him because I liked how he played, then the character started to grow on me despite knowing almost nothing about him. I really liked how he looked and his personality, and that plus the music made me interested in playing his games.
Since then I have been a fan of the series.

That's my case. But other's cases will be different, and some of these people will try FE because of Byleth, for example. Some people will be interested in him but not, I don't know, Corrin, and so on. This is what happens with series with rotating casts.

Not using this to defend the amount of characters of Fire Emblem, to clarify.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

On the topic of non video game characters: Popeye should get the rub on that one. Man’s integral to the history of Nintendo.

On video game related topic: Team Fortress 2 content in Smash, yay or nay? I usually prefer closer ties to Nintendo but I just love TF2

Honestly? I'd be up for it. Sure, it wouldn't feel anywhere near as earned as say, Sonic or Pac Man or any other gaming icon third party, but we've had lesser third parties join in, and TF2 still feels worthy of a spot in Smash even if it hasn't quite earned it, if that makes sense.

That, and playable Heavy just sounds cool.

 

[Koopaul]

Didn't Sakurai say that working with western third parties is a bit of a challenge due to the language barrier? Or am I misremembering that?

If that's the case then I can see why we don't get a lot of western characters. We know that Sakurai is hesitant to put in fighters that he thinks might be a challenge. He does it eventually but it sometimes takes years of reevaluation.

 

[Dinoman96]

So far as I can tell, Smash has included content from games that never came out in Japan a grand total of ONE time in the series. One. You know what it was?

Spoiler

A sticker in Brawl of Pit as he appeared in Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters. (It came out after Brawl in Japan on VC.)

There's one other example: the NES Zapper appears in Duck Hunt's trailer.

For those who don't know, the Zapper as we know it wasn't released in Japan. Instead, they just got...a gun.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

with the occasional person asking how to emulate Binding Blade.

If only Nintendo could actually release GBA Switch Online... (along with N64 while we're at it).

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

There's one other example: the NES Zapper appears in Duck Hunt's trailer.

For those who don't know, the Zapper as we know it wasn't released in Japan. Instead, they just got...a gun.

Meanwhile, in an alternate universe...

“For Duck Hunt’s Smash Attacks, HE GETS SHOT BY A GUN”

 

[SharkLord]

Didn't Sakurai say that working with western third parties is a bit of a challenge due to the language barrier? Or am I misremembering that?

If that's the case then I can see why we don't get a lot of western characters. We know that Sakurai is hesitant to put in fighters that he thinks might be a challenge. He does it eventually but it sometimes takes years of reevaluation.

Yeah, he said that regarding Banjo and Kazooie. Obviously, they're not an auto-deconfirm, but it is a bit trickier because of the language barrier. Personally, I'm expecting only one more Western character, maybe two if we're lucky.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I wouldn't mind if more Western-dominated franchises were represented in Smash through playable characters. Of course, that's a biased as heck statement, but I have more reasoning than just wanting some of my favorite franchises in Smash.

I believe it was discussed here that one of Sakurai's goal with Smash is to introduce and represent Japanese franchises (large and small) to other parts of the world where they aren't as known. It's a really innovative idea; for example, a good chunk of Fire Emblem fans might not be fans today had Marth and Roy never been implemented into Melee. Representation of more Japanese-dominated franchises, playable or not, may seem small, but they can have long-term ripple effects that allow gamers to be more culturally endowed in facets of the industry that they may have never even thought of to explore. For me, that was Mother 3.

But what if this vision that Sakurai has was more reciprocal, using Smash Bros to introduce franchises that dominate in more Western spheres of the globe to Japanese audiences? It's easy to understand on a level of practicality why this hasn't occurred more frequently due to obvious language barriers and time needed to relay information through multiple channels (NoJ --> NoA --> 3rd party Western company --> NoA --> NoJ.) This was the format needed for Sakurai to communicate back and forth with Robin Beanland over in the UK regarding composition for the Banjo-Kazooie tracks.

If Sakurai found someway to more efficiently implement Western franchises into Smash, and he himself was on board with the idea, I think it'd be really neat to see. While we get a lot of Japan's influence, they can get some from the other side of the globe, really unifying different sectors of the gaming industry in a symbolic kinda way, while also contributing to the overarching idea of Smash being a celebration of gaming.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Alright, Sgt. Cortez is safe! Thanks to TimeSplitters 2 being released in Japan!

View attachment 284011

Sergeant Cortez is my favorite anime character.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Alright, Sgt. Cortez is safe! Thanks to TimeSplitters 2 being released in Japan!

View attachment 284011

It’s time to split!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Personally I think the language barrier concerns aren't a factor anymore, we had negotiations for multiple Western third party content. While only one's a playable character, I'm pretty sure negotiation still needs to happen alongside asking "Yo does this costume look right? And can we do this for the Spirit battle?"

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

This is why I think "Unpopular in Japan" is bs argument. Why can't Sakurai simply use Smash to promote western games in Japan? He said he isn't into console war, so regional segregation shouldn't be in his book.

As a figure in the Japanese gaming industry, it makes sense that Sakurai would want to promote Japanese games to Western markets rather than vice versa. He was born and raised with Japanese franchises, and it's those franchises that have largely shaped his ideology when it comes to game design and such. A lot of his best friendships are with Japanese game developers, and Japanese games are simply more prominent and accessible to him. Not to say that he doesn't consider Western games because we know he does, but it makes more sense for him to promote Japanese games over Western games simply because he's played more of them and they seem to have overall had more of an influence on him than primarily Western games.

There's also the more pragmatic, business-oriented approach of Sakurai and Nintendo having more to gain in terms of monetary gain and corporate synergy by promoting Japanese series over Western series, which should be considered as well.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It'll be interesting to see how much gameplay novelty for individual fighters has played a part in selection for the rest of the fighter's pass. Given the increasingly unique nature of many in the first, there might be something to speculating what sort of proverbial gimmick has not really been tried for a character that's still feasible.

 

[SharkLord]

It'll be interesting to see how much gameplay novelty for individual fighters has played a part in selection for the rest of the fighter's pass. Given the increasingly unique nature of many in the first, there might be something to speculating what sort of proverbial gimmick has not really been tried for a character that's still feasible.

I think the character comes first, and the gimmicks later. Banjo only had a special that had limited uses, and Byleth didn't have a gimmick whatsoever. I don't think a character gets pick because "They're unique!" or "They have a gimmick!" Character first, gameplay later.

 

[Aetheri]

I think its less of a language barrier issue and more of a logistics issue.

Its a lot easier to deal with a company that is just at most a few hours drive from where you live/work as opposed to one residing on another continent.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Ok so here's an interesting idea, take your current backlog and put some protags from them in Smash when applicable. For me, that'd be Rayman, Kiryu, Miriam/Zangetsu, Deus Ex protag (I know nothing about this franchise lmao), Gordon Freeman, Lara Croft, Master Chief, Kain from Legacy of Kain, Adol Christin and Estelle Bright. Looking at my list, I'd say I'd be happy if a few of these got in

Mine would be Ring Fit Adventurer, Akira Howard, Randi from Secret of Mana (and the other two games too but I don't know the characters in them), Chibi Link, King Boo, Toad (cheating a bit, the game is Mario Maker 2), Miriam Bloodstained, Captain Price and Soap MacTavish, Cal Kestis, Delta and Booker from BioShock, Shadow (for Sonic Forces), Amaterasu, and, uhh... a character from The Outer Worlds.

 

[7NATOR]

Personally I think the language barrier concerns aren't a factor anymore, we had negotiations for multiple Western third party content. While only one's a playable character, I'm pretty sure negotiation still needs to happen alongside asking "Yo does this costume look right? And can we do this for the Spirit battle?"

I still do think they are a factor. not as big as it was before, But i do think it's something that should be considered.

Plus obviously there is a big difference between Trophies, Spirits, Costumes, and a whole Playable character in this FP, which comes with stages and music and stuff. I do think Banjo was some sort of Test run in dealing with this, and it has worked. however it's still gonna be a challenge one way or another

It'll be interesting to see how much gameplay novelty for individual fighters has played a part in selection for the rest of the fighter's pass. Given the increasingly unique nature of many in the first, there might be something to speculating what sort of proverbial gimmick has not really been tried for a character that's still feasible.

I do think Moveset potential is a big factor into it honestly. I don't think it's the most important necessarily, but It's an advantage some characters could have over others that could lead to them being picked over someone else

I mean, I'm sure it's not just 6 characters that are suggested by Nintendo, there are probably more characters that are considered on the floor. It could be up to 20 charcaters, or even more. If one character has better Moveset Potential and/or Better moveset Implmentation than another character, that is a factor that could lead to them moving on. Of course there's also the merits of the characters themselves, How East/Hard Negotations are, Any future benefits the inclusion could benefit Nintendo, etc. but yes

 

[cosmicB]

Personally I think the language barrier concerns aren't a factor anymore, we had negotiations for multiple Western third party content. While only one's a playable character, I'm pretty sure negotiation still needs to happen alongside asking "Yo does this costume look right? And can we do this for the Spirit battle?"

I imagine there's a big difference between negotiations for supplementary content like spirit events and possibly even mii costumes compared to actual playable characters. At the moment, the only one that Sakurai was publicly involved with in any known capacity is Sans. For other western content, the higher-ups could have worked it out real quick via email and then Sakurai could just push the designing part off onto some random DLC team member while continuing to focus on the playable characters.

 

[PeridotGX]

Oh please, like they'd actually fix any of the glaring soundtrack omissions for Pokémon if they were to bring in a new character. A new Pokémon character would be a Gen 8 mon with Sword/Shield tracks only, and no Vs Ho-Oh, Vs Iris, or Vs Ultra Necrozma in sight.

Who would win: one of the five most iconic songs in gaming history

or an unremixed town song

 

[Perkilator]

Ok so here's an interesting idea, take your current backlog and put some protags from them in Smash when applicable. For me, that'd be Rayman, Kiryu, Miriam/Zangetsu, Deus Ex protag (I know nothing about this franchise lmao), Gordon Freeman, Lara Croft, Master Chief, Kain from Legacy of Kain, Adol Christin and Estelle Bright. Looking at my list, I'd say I'd be happy if a few of these got in

My backlog so far is:

• Kingdom Hearts III (PS4), so I add Sora
• Crash Bandicoot: N. Sane Trilogy (PS4), so I add Crash
• Ring Fit Adventure (Switch), so I add Ring Fit Trainee
• Dragalia Lost (Mobile), so I add Euden
• Sakura Wars (PS4), so I add Sakura Shinguji (w/Sakura Amamiya as an Echo)
• Pokemon Sword (Switch), so I add Scorbunny
• I already got Byleth and Min Min, so for a Smash Ultimate promotion, I'm gonna promote Shadow to a Sonic Echo.

 

[zferolie]

So we are back to nothing again right? Did nate ever say why he was adamant of friday news?

I think the only thing we got going is that mod hearing from his japanese sources smash news at the end of september?

 

[Captain Shwampy]

So we are back to nothing again right? Did nate ever say why he was adamant of friday news?

I think the only thing we got going is that mod hearing from his japanese sources smash news at the end of september?

Last I heard, no direct this year, so we might get a random non direct smash reveal.

 

[Miles of SmashWiki]

I do wonder if we'll get anything analogous to back in summer/fall 2015, between Ryu and Cloud, where we got new DLC Mii costumes and stages separate from character releases. Small Battlefield was a nice free update, but I'd be excited to throw a few bucks at the eShop for some of the handful of stages that missed the Ultimate launch or some new ones.

Woolly World or bust

 

[Garteam]

I find it kinda funny how we're consistently looking for rules and other ideas on how to get into Sakurai's head and better understand the selection process, but as soon as Sakurai tells us a valuable insight by mentioning the difficulties of a language barrier in licensing international characters, we immediately try to work around and disregard that information.

 

[Calamitas]

Who would win: one of the five most iconic songs in gaming history

or an unremixed town song

Oh god, I keep pushing the fact that the Lumiose City theme made it out of my mind.
Oh god, I keep pushing the fact that the only music from any Johto game is that garbage medley out of my mind.

So we are back to nothing again right? Did nate ever say why he was adamant of friday news?

I think the only thing we got going is that mod hearing from his japanese sources smash news at the end of september?

Gotchu covered:

Okay, so now that I've watched Nate's video in full, here's a bit of a (hopefully) better summary of the situation.
He actually never heard anything about a Direct announcement to begin with. Instead, he only heard of three first-party game that were supposedly intended to be revealed today, and therefore assumed that that would have to take place during a Direct of some kind. However, since he doesn't contact his sources all too often (maybe once per month or every couple of weeks), these plans have since been outdated, hence the Partner Showcase this week. He also seeme to have acted under the assumption that the 3D Mario collection was intended to be a September release, but thinks that a September reveal with a holiday release window is more likely.

And a personal thought I want to add to this: Since Kelios was acting all coy and saying something about us having to only wait a few more days now, I'd assume that he might have some more up-to-date information.

 

[SharkLord]

So we are back to nothing again right? Did nate ever say why he was adamant of friday news?

I think the only thing we got going is that mod hearing from his japanese sources smash news at the end of september?

Basically, what Nate said is supposed to happen, but he either got outdated info or jumped to conclusions, so he doesn't know exactly when. In the meantime, Grubb placed a Nintendo Wildcard at an unspecified date before Tokyo Game Show, though we don't know exactly what it is.

Personally, I'm guessing the 3rd, so we're exactly one day away from the one-year anniversary of the last direct.

 

[Phoenixio]

i mean, isn't the 91 slots before crashing the CSS still a thing, or have they fixed that?

I don't believe there was any update to that, so yeah still crashes.

But the real question is: why fix it if it's not relevant yet and doesn't hinder the current version of the game in any way? There's still a large number of spots to fill before getting there. They'll probably spend resources on it once it becomes more relevant, and still we never know what type of developer version they have that might not have such limits anymore.