Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RileyXY1]

But the real question is: why fix it if it's not relevant yet and doesn't hinder the current version of the game in any way? There's still a large number of spots to fill before getting there. They'll probably spend resources on it once it becomes more relevant, and still we never know what type of developer version they have that might not have such limits anymore.

And, they might not even get close to the limit. After FP2, they need four additional fighters in order to reach the limit.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

As a figure in the Japanese gaming industry, it makes sense that Sakurai would want to promote Japanese games to Western markets rather than vice versa. He was born and raised with Japanese franchises, and it's those franchises that have largely shaped his ideology when it comes to game design and such. A lot of his best friendships are with Japanese game developers, and Japanese games are simply more prominent and accessible to him. Not to say that he doesn't consider Western games because we know he does, but it makes more sense for him to promote Japanese games over Western games simply because he's played more of them and they seem to have overall had more of an influence on him than primarily Western games.

There's also the more pragmatic, business-oriented approach of Sakurai and Nintendo having more to gain in terms of monetary gain and corporate synergy by promoting Japanese series over Western series, which should be considered as well.

Another factor is that Japanese support for the Switch is much better then the western side, same day releases for Japanese games on PS4 and Switch are pretty common. While western games just flat out skip Switch. Activsion and Ubisoft barely support the system, Activision tends only port their smaller games like a year later after their initial release and Ubisoft support while started strong, has become less and less noticeable has time has pass. Outside of the upcoming Apex Legends port and the recent Burnout Paradise port EA pretty much ignores the systems existence. Then with WB, outside of Lego and MK11, its hard to think of games they even released for the system. While Japanese support isn't perfect cough Bandai Namco cough. Its still much better then the western front.

 

[StarBot]

even the new Spring Man?

People are unironically trying to meme Spring Man in?
Really?

 

[Cosmic77]

Spring Man is obviously not happening in this game, but he really should be added in the next one, especially if ARMS 2 comes out before then.

Min Min is great, but I don't feel like she represents the franchise as well as Spring Man. The fact that she was given Spring Man's home stage instead of her own is pretty telling. Maybe that's not a good enough reason to add Spring Man, but it feels like we got "Luigi" before "Mario".

 

[I.D.]

I think it's mainly because of A: No specific game to be tied down to, which would go against the current standards for DLC

Terry?

 

[SharkLord]

Spring Man is obviously not happening in this game, but he really should be added in the next one, especially if ARMS 2 comes out before then.

Min Min is great, but I don't feel like she represents the franchise as well as Spring Man. The fact that she was given Spring Man's home stage instead of her own is pretty telling. Maybe that's not a good enough reason to add Spring Man, but it feels like we got "Luigi" before "Mario".

To be fair, the Mario series explicitly has Mario as the protagonist. ARMS has an ensemble cast, so even if Spring Man is the face of the marketing, he's not necessarily the protagonist in the game itself. ARMS has enough wiggle room to add pretty much anybody, and Yabuki specifically wanted Min Min.

Terry?

Fatal Fury is no longer a thing?

 

[I.D.]

Fatal Fury is no longer a thing?

You said tied down to a "specific game" which Terry obviously isn't considering most of his content isn't even from Fatal Fury. And the last Fatal Fury title released over 20 years ago, so, in a way it's no longer a thing yes.

Edit: Not to mention, Fatal Fury itself isn't a specific game, but a series of games.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think its less of a language barrier issue and more of a logistics issue.

Its a lot easier to deal with a company that is just at most a few hours drive from where you live/work as opposed to one residing on another continent.

It's all the same in these Covid times.

 

[N3ON]

Getting punched in the face and dropping the invitation was the best thing that ever happened to Spring-Man, popularity-wise.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think Terry and Pac-Man are the same in the sense that both are supposed to represent multiple games related to theirs.

There was never a character from a similar franchise before them, but does anyone think we're in a good position to get a second Namco arcade or SNK rep? Personally, I don't.

 

[Perkilator]

I think Terry and Pac-Man are the same in the sense that both are supposed to represent multiple games related to theirs.

There was never a character from a similar franchise before them, but does anyone think we're in a good position to get a second Namco arcade or SNK rep? Personally, I don't.

Maybe in Namco arcade's case, Dig Dug could be a possibility.

 

[I.D.]

There was never a character from a similar franchise before them, but does anyone think we're in a good position to get a second Namco arcade or SNK rep? Personally, I don't.

I've seen quite a few people on smashboards argue against the idea that Terry is supposed to be representing SNK as a whole, but if that's the case, why do we have so many posters completely certain that we won't get another character from SNK like Marco or Haohmaru?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I think Terry and Pac-Man are the same in the sense that both are supposed to represent multiple games related to theirs.

There was never a character from a similar franchise before them, but does anyone think we're in a good position to get a second Namco arcade or SNK rep? Personally, I don't.

I still think it's bull**** that we don't have Ms. Pac-Man as an echo/alt.

 

[RileyXY1]

Maybe in Namco arcade's case, Dig Dug could be a possibility.

I think that if NB gets a second rep they are more likely to pick a more modern character.

 

[Cosmic77]

Maybe in Namco arcade's case, Dig Dug could be a possibility.

Maybe, but I feel like Dig Dug is more likely to get a stage, remix, or Spirit tied in with Pac-Man than for it to become its own thing.

The way Sakurai has represented Namco arcade games so far makes it difficult for any of them to separate themselves from Pac-Man. Even though Pac-Man is the franchise represented on the roster, Galaga, Rally-X, Mappy, Dig Dug, and several other completely separate arcade games were thrown in as well.

I still it's bull**** that we don't have Ms. Pac-Man as an echo/alt.

Apparently, adding a character who's essentially Pac-Man with a bow, eyelashes, and a beauty mark has more legalities involved than you'd think.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I think that if NB gets a second rep they are more likely to pick a more modern character.

I mean, yeah I think everyone thinks Lloyd, Nightmare or a Dark Souls rep is more likely than Dig Dug overall. He was more saying that out of all the older Namco characters, Dig Dug is the only one that has a solid chance.

 

[SharkLord]

You said tied down to a "specific game" which Terry obviously isn't considering most of his content isn't even from Fatal Fury. And the last Fatal Fury title released over 20 years ago, so, in a way it's no longer a thing yes.

Edit: Not to mention, Fatal Fury itself isn't a specific game, but a series of games.

It's still what was used for his SSBU X title card. What I'm saying is, Terry is the star of his show, Fatal Fury. Since Fatal Fury is pretty closely connected to King of Fighters, which itself is tied to pretty much every major SNK property under the sun in some way, he also gets to represent those series as well.

The characters discussed in that post don't have that, at least not to the same level as the other characters. Bandana Dee has always played the helper role, so his impact on the series is spread out rather than concentrated in a specific game or subseries. As such, he'd only have a general Kirby pack without many characters who are more than tangentially related to him. Dixie did star in DKC3, but I don't see that one game getting a dedicated back just for Dixie. Waluigi's entire shtick is being the guy who never has good things happen to him and he hails from the most heavily represented series in Smash, so there's not much he could bring beyond himself.

Characters like those, supporting characters from already-represented series, are geared more towards being part of the base game than being DLC.

I think Terry and Pac-Man are the same in the sense that both are supposed to represent multiple games related to theirs.

There was never a character from a similar franchise before them, but does anyone think we're in a good position to get a second Namco arcade or SNK rep? Personally, I don't.

Yeah, they managed to cover a lot of bases. At least with Namco, they've got more bases than the arcade scene. SNK is very much arcade-based, and Terry managed to cover just about everyone from them.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Apparently, adding a character who's essentially Pac-Man with a bow, eyelashes, and a beauty mark has more legalities involved than you'd think.

Namco did apparently finally get the rights back, if this trailer is any indication, but yeah, it was probably too late for the base roster.

 

[I.D.]

It's still what was used for his SSBU X title card.

And it's still a series and not a specific game.

Since Fatal Fury is pretty closely connected to King of Fighters, which itself is tied to pretty much every major SNK property under the sun in some way, he also gets to represent those series as well.

Then why did Metal Slug also get four songs (two of them being remixes)? And if he's representing the KoF-verse (another idea I've seen thrown around) why do spirits use the art from their home series instead of their KoF art?

Do you realize how hard we have to stretch this "rule" for Terry not to break it? Isn't it just more likely that he's simply coming with content from SNK's major series?

The characters discussed in that post don't have that, at least not to the same level as the other characters. Bandana Dee has always played the helper role, so his impact on the series is spread out rather than concentrated in a specific game or subseries. As such, he'd only have a general Kirby pack without many characters who are more than tangentially related to him. Dixie did star in DKC3, but I don't see that one game getting a dedicated back just for Dixie. Waluigi's entire shtick is being the guy who never has good things happen to him and he hails from the most heavily represented series in Smash, so there's not much he could bring beyond himself.

Characters like those, supporting characters from already-represented series, are geared more towards being part of the base game than being DLC.

Now you are changing it to something completely different: "characters have to be the star of their show", which is not what I'm arguing. I'm just saying DLC characters don't have to be tied down to a specific title... because we already got a character who isn't.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Namco did apparently finally get the rights back, if this trailer is any indication, but yeah, it was probably too late for the base roster.

Namco's had the rights to Ms. Pac-Man for some time now but the issue has been that AtGames managed to obtain royalty rights to it. I take it with this release something has been done about AtGames.

I can't tell whether AtGames had the royalty rights to just the game or the game and character. I'd guess the former since Ms. Pac-Man cameos in the Pac-Land stage just fine.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Rumour: Super Mario 3D Collection To Be Revealed This Week | Nintendo Insider

Nintendo will reveal the Super Mario 3D Collection this week, which has long been rumoured to be coming to Nintendo Switch.

www.nintendo-insider.com

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Rumour: Super Mario 3D Collection To Be Revealed This Week | Nintendo Insider

Nintendo will reveal the Super Mario 3D Collection this week, which has long been rumoured to be coming to Nintendo Switch.

www.nintendo-insider.com

Watch as it happens this Thursday, just one day short of the full year we went without a direct

 

[cashregister9]

Rumour: Super Mario 3D Collection To Be Revealed This Week | Nintendo Insider

Nintendo will reveal the Super Mario 3D Collection this week, which has long been rumoured to be coming to Nintendo Switch.

www.nintendo-insider.com

sauce

I swear this happens every week it is getting to the point where I am convinced that these games don't actually exist

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I still think it's bull**** that we don't have Ms. Pac-Man as an echo/alt.

That's what happens when your distrubutor makes your second most known character.
I still wonder if Pac-Land was chosen as a stage because it was the only way to legally represent her in Smash at all.

 

[SharkLord]

And it's still a series and not a specific game.

Then why did Metal Slug also get four songs (two of them being remixes)? And if he's representing the KoF-verse (another idea I've seen thrown around) why do spirits use the art from their home series instead of their KoF art?

Terry got a couple of Metal Slug songs, but that's as far as Metal Slug is represented. He mainly draws from Fatal Fury and King of Fighters, which themselves are in a bit of a unique situation due to the fact that SNK more or less let their stuff grow into KoF while the original titles themselves faded out. Terry is in a unique situation because SNK's works are tied together a lot more closely than most other games.

Do you realize how hard we have to stretch this "rule" for Terry not to break it? Isn't it just more likely that he's simply coming with content from SNK's major series?

It's not a set-in-stone rule, I'm just basing my stance on what the past DLC has been like. When something new happens, I alter my opinions accordingly. It's silly to think "All fighters HAVE to be like this!" and it's equally silly to think "Anyone can happen and ALL past patterns are just fan rules!"

Now you are changing it to something completely different: "characters have to be the star of their show", which is not what I'm arguing. I'm just saying DLC characters don't have to be tied down to a specific title... because we already got a character who isn't.

That was poor wording on my part. What I meant was, characters like Bandana Dee and Waluigi aren't very likely (But not impossible) because they don't have as much content that would be related to them. All the past DLC has been representing either a series without a fighter or a specific game without a fighter, with a stage, a tracklist, and a Spirit Board. Since the DLC fighters have been the main characters, they were connected to most of their content by proxy. I don't think we'll be getting a fighter who is only tangentially related to the bulk of their content.

The original post wasn't even making an argument anyways; I was just saying why I thought characters like Bandana Dee, Isaac, and Waluigi have fallen out of the speculative spotlight.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You might wanna put some text in that post so the mods don’t warn you for image-only spam

That's what happens when your distrubutor makes your second most known character.
I still wonder if Pac-Land was chosen as a stage because it was the only way to legally represent her in Smash at all.

in hindsight, I think it may make sense. Also explains why she doesn’t even have a Spirit - AtGames would probably demand royalties for a png image

 

[I.D.]

It's not a set-in-stone rule, I'm just basing my stance on what the past DLC has been like. When something new happens, I alter my opinions accordingly. It's silly to think "All fighters HAVE to be like this!" and it's equally silly to think "Anyone can happen and ALL past patterns are just fan rules!"

Good thing that's not what I'm saying. It's just that this particular "rule" has no grounds to stand on. I mean, even if I concede the argument that Terry is supposed to be representing The King of Fighters (even though you yourself pointed out that his trailer says Smash Bros x Fatal Fury...) I only have to point out that The King of Fighters is also a series and not a specific game. Which specific KoF game is Terry tied down to?

 

[SharkLord]

Good thing that's not what I'm saying. It's just that this particular "rule" has no grounds to stand on. I mean, even if I concede the fact that Terry is supposed to be representing The King of Fighters (even though you yourself pointed out that his trailer says Smash Bros x Fatal Fury...) I only have to point out that The King of Fighters is also a series and not a specific game. Which specific KoF game is Terry tied down to?

You know what? I'm done here. You're evidently not going to budge. I'm not wasting my breath on you.

Have a nice day.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What I meant was, characters like Bandana Dee and Waluigi aren't very likely (But not impossible) because they don't have as much content that would be related to them.

That's not exactly true. Due to the nature of there being virtually no "new Kirby" stuff, Bandana Waddle Dee has a ton of content in regards to stages and music. Waluigi would similarly be able to bring a ton of tracks from the Mario Kart, Mario Party, and Mario sports series, and he's got his own stage made just for him in Waluigi Pinball.

Both would probably need to reuse some Spirits like Min Min did, but other than that, neither character has a dearth of content to bring. What they don't have though, (and this might be what you mean so um...I guess ignore me if it is) is any real reason for Nintendo to add them from a marketing standpoint, which is why that, unless there's a Kirby game in the near future, I personally don't think we'll be seeing either character.

 

[cj.]

SNK still doesn't have representation from ADK in Smash
ADK is a company acquired by SNK, with series such as World Heroes, Aggressors of Dark Kombat, Ninja Commando

 

[Cosmic77]

I have doubts about Waluigi mainly because I have no idea how they'd scrap together a bundle featuring him.

How would they even handle the Spirit Board? Ten Spirits of Waluigi featuring artwork from various games?

 

[Will]

How would they even handle the Spirit Board? Ten Spirits of Waluigi featuring artwork from various games?

sounds about right to me

 

[Guybrush20X6]

SNK still doesn't have representation from ADK in Smash
ADK is a company acquired by SNK, with series such as World Heroes, Aggressors of Dark Kombat, Ninja Commando

Those names are vaguely familiar but it's not clicking for me. What genre are they? That might help.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Those names are vaguely familiar but it's not clicking for me. What genre are they? That might help.

World Heroes and Agressors of Dark Kombat are fighting games, Ninja Commando is a top down shooter.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I have doubts about Waluigi mainly because I have no idea how they'd scrap together a bundle featuring him.

How would they even handle the Spirit Board? Ten Spirits of Waluigi featuring artwork from various games?

Honestly? New Spirits are such a minor addition that yes, I can totally see them doing such a thing if it fits.

As long as the character can bring a stage and music, I don't think much else matters. Not the Spirits, and certainly not whether they can put Smash Bros. X Something in the trailer.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How would they even handle the Spirit Board? Ten Spirits of Waluigi featuring artwork from various games?

That would be the most Waluigi thing ever, and I love it.

You were expecting a diverse pool of Spirits? Too bad! Waluigi time!

I think Waluigi just made my wanted list. lol

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I have doubts about Waluigi mainly because I have no idea how they'd scrap together a bundle featuring him.

How would they even handle the Spirit Board? Ten Spirits of Waluigi featuring artwork from various games?

Easy, 10 Waluigis from 10 Different Series:

Mario Party
Mario Kart
Mario Golf
Mario Tennis
DDR: Mario Mix
Fortune Street
Mario Strikers
Mario Super Sluggers
Dr Mario
Mario Hoops 3-on 3

 

[Guynamednelson]

Rumour: Super Mario 3D Collection To Be Revealed This Week | Nintendo Insider

Nintendo will reveal the Super Mario 3D Collection this week, which has long been rumoured to be coming to Nintendo Switch.

www.nintendo-insider.com

I can't wait to marathon it after Star Fox Grand Prix.

 

[SharkLord]

SNK still doesn't have representation from ADK in Smash
ADK is a company acquired by SNK, with series such as World Heroes, Aggressors of Dark Kombat, Ninja Commando

That's a good point, though they're so minor I can't see us getting anything.

I have doubts about Waluigi mainly because I have no idea how they'd scrap together a bundle featuring him.

How would they even handle the Spirit Board? Ten Spirits of Waluigi featuring artwork from various games?

While I'd be kinda disappointed in the long run, I must admit, that would be pretty funny. Still, I'm not really interested in a Challenger Pack build solely around one character as opposed to representing an entire series or game, nor do I think such an event is likely.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Sakurai: “Yeah so Western picks require overcoming the language barrier and therefore can be more difficult”

Dudes: “Bruh, Sakurai is a troll! He says one thing but he’s a troll, don’t you know? He doesn’t mean what he says! How do I know that? Isn’t it obvious??? It’s convenient for my argument!!!”