Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Shroob]

Unlike most people when they say "I'll never ask for anything again if you give me X", I legit kinda mean it rn.


Today went above and BEYOND my expectations. The fact that I'll be able to play ****ing Nocturne on my Switch in early 2021 and I won't have to struggle with getting a shoddy PS2 emulator/finding a ROM to begin with is wonderful.

 

[7NATOR]

That's just hypothetical though. Just because Joker feels like a crazy choice doesn't mean Nintendo wasn't interested themselves. We're already seeing Atlus wanting to port their games to the Switch, so it's easy to see why Nintendo thought they could benefit from Joker.

As for Nintendo adding four "hype" characters to soften the blow, I don't think they care that much. The first character of the pass was Min Min, a character who was, needless to say, not the best choice to get people invested.

This video implies that Sakurai was the One that was more upfront about Joker. Nintendo were needed to green light this, but Sakurai was the one that it seems made the decision to actively start discussions about Joker. Of course Nintendo probably thought about the Benefits of Joker being in, and probably influence their decision to go with the character choice, but still it Seems Sakurai initiated

As For Nintendo Caring, They do want to sell the pass because they want people's money. Now there's people out there (Like me), who buy the Pass because they want all the characters and/or, don't mind what characters get added in, but ALOT of people aren't like that, so yes

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'll say it once and say it again. If any character is gonna get the assist promote its Waluigi.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

This video implies that Sakurai was the One that was more upfront about Joker. Nintendo were needed to green light this, but Sakurai was the one that it seems made the decision to actively start discussions about Joker. Of course Nintendo probably thought about the Benefits of Joker being in, and probably influence their decision to go with the character choice, but still it Seems Sakurai initiated

As For Nintendo Caring, They do want to sell the pass because they want people's money. Now there's people out there (Like me), who buy the Pass because they want all the characters and/or, don't mind what characters get added in, but ALOT of people aren't like that, so yes

Ah yes, Video Game Storytime, a reputable source for gaming information.

I've already covered this before:

If anything, I understood it more as Nintendo told Sakurai to include an ARMS character, and Sakurai went to Yabuki for input. Since Min Min is Yabuki's favorite, she got in.

There's a lot of unknowns in regards to how much influence Sakurai and Nintendo have respectively in determining characters. For instance, we know Sakurai included Joker because he's a huge fan of the Persona series, and that he played a significant role in negotiations for Dragon Quest. However, we also know that Byleth and Min Min were special requests from Nintendo that Sakurai honored, or was forced to honor.

It seems very much like a give and take relationship where both parties have input, and to give significant credit to one over the other seems rather reductionist to me.

It's not just one or the other. The two likely both play a role in negotiations/character selection, so there's a lot to account for in character decision.

That's why I use a lot of "I think," "could," and "maybe" among others when I try to divine what's up Nintendo and Sakurai's collective sleeve.

 

[7NATOR]

I'll say it once and say it again. If any character is gonna get the assist promote its Waluigi.

Mannnn, I like Waluigi, but I'm not entirely sure honestly.

Like i think he's likely if they did decide to put in an Assist Trophy, but i think people are counting out other Assists. Isaac, Shadow, Bomberman, Shovel Knight, Skull Kid, Alucard. All of these have their Perks and stuff.

Plus Geno might prove problem for Waluigi if he gets in, Assuming you think Mario can't get 2 reps in 1 fighter Pass

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Mannnn, I like Waluigi, but I'm not entirely sure honestly.

Like i think he's likely if they did decide to put in an Assist Trophy, but i think people are counting out other Assists. Isaac, Shadow, Bomberman, Shovel Knight, Skull Kid, Alucard. All of these have their Perks and stuff.

Plus Geno might prove problem for Waluigi if he gets in, Assuming you think Mario can't get 2 reps in 1 fighter Pass

None of those characters compares to the demand and backlash Waluigi got when revealed as a assist though.

Also I have a wild prediction he'll be a bonus character separate from the second pass.

 

[Perkilator]

I'll say it once and say it again. If any character is gonna get the assist promote its Waluigi.

That's assuming Assists promote in the same game at all.

tells me that Sakurai has to be at least slightly against this idea as well, no matter how much he avoids saying this.

 

[7NATOR]

Ah yes, Video Game Storytime, a reputable source for gaming information.

I've already covered this before:

It's not just one or the other. The two likely both play a role in negotiations/character selection, so there's a lot to account for in character decision.

That's why I use a lot of "I think," "could," and "maybe" among others when I try to divine what's up Nintendo and Sakurai's collective sleeve.

Oh I didn't mean to imply only Sakurai has the input. I should have stated that as well. I think it's a Two way street as well, Where Nintendo Intiates, and cases where Sakurai initiates. Yes

 

[Michael the Spikester]

That's assuming Assists promote in the same game at all.

tells me that Sakurai has to be at least slightly against this idea as well, no matter how much he avoids saying this.

If he finally gave in into the demand for Ridley despite his belief in his status as a video game boss thinking it'd demean him. It's only a matter of time until he did the same with Waluigi.

The only real rule is no non gaming characters.

 

[Perkilator]

If he finally gave in into the demand for Ridley. It's only a matter of time until he did the same with Waluigi.

The only real rule is no non gaming characters.

Fan demand =/= development possibilities, "video game characters only" rule or not. Ridley was never even an Assist Trophy, much less one that got promoted in the same game as being one.

I could write a whole paragraph, but I'd rather not waste anybody's time.

 

[7NATOR]

None of those characters compares to the demand and backlash Wslyigi got when revealed as a assist though.

Also I have a wild prediction he'll be a bonus character separate from the second pass.

I Mean

I would say Waluigi got the biggest one, but I don't think the other Assists backlash should be discounted. Bomberman did not have a Huge backlash like Waluigi did, but It was more like a huge Collective Disappointment that he just got Assist Trophied. Isaac and Shadow were also big, especially due to the Grinch leak happening a Week earlier.

Plus alot of these characters have been big in Previous Games and Speculation cycles. That's why I think there's more to other Assist Trophies, instead of just Waluigi being the only Realizable option

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Fan demand =/= development possibilities, "video game characters only" rule or not. Ridley was never even an Assist Trophy, much less one that got promoted in the same game as being one.

I could write a whole paragraph, but I'd rather not waste anybody's time.

That can always change though and assuming it happens I imagine it would be simple where said assist character would just be disabled when being played like certain assists on stages.

 

[Sysreq]

None of those characters compares to the demand and backlash Waluigi got when revealed as a assist though.

Also I have a wild prediction he'll be a bonus character separate from the second pass.

Why do you think there'll be a bonus character at all? What incentive is there to do that? Piranha Plant was a fluke.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Can't wait for Sakurai to announce The Mysterious Murasame Castle: Uprising after Ultimate DLC.

Don't tease me with this, I already got burned with F-Zero

Fan demand =/= development possibilities, "video game characters only" rule or not. Ridley was never even an Assist Trophy, much less one that got promoted in the same game as being one.

I could write a whole paragraph, but I'd rather not waste anybody's time.

You don't get to cite development possibilities when you clearly have no idea about game development.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

That's assuming Assists promote in the same game at all.

tells me that Sakurai has to be at least slightly against this idea as well, no matter how much he avoids saying this.

Min Min got in by her own merits, not simply because Springo was already an assist.

If Sakurai was cool with a preestablished role like a Spirit being upgraded, I don't see why an assist would be any different.

 

[Digital Hazard]

This video implies that Sakurai was the One that was more upfront about Joker. Nintendo were needed to green light this, but Sakurai was the one that it seems made the decision to actively start discussions about Joker. Of course Nintendo probably thought about the Benefits of Joker being in, and probably influence their decision to go with the character choice, but still it Seems Sakurai initiated

As For Nintendo Caring, They do want to sell the pass because they want people's money. Now there's people out there (Like me), who buy the Pass because they want all the characters and/or, don't mind what characters get added in, but ALOT of people aren't like that, so yes

Ever since they made their video on why Byleth is in over any of the House Leaders, I don't really give this channel an opportunity.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Not sure if this was brought up before but....

That envelope looks oddly familiar in the Atlier Ryza 2 trailer....

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not sure if this was brought up before but....

That envelope looks oddly familiar in the Atlier Ryza 2 trailer....

Some pages ago. It's a fairly common stamp. This looks like a coincidence at this point. It'd be an interesting choice, but yeah, it practically means nothing.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Not sure if this was brought up before but....

That envelope looks oddly familiar in the Atlier Ryza 2 trailer....

It's the KoF invitation. Ryza in KoF XV confirmed.

...you know, I joke, but I'd kinda like to see what that game could do with more guests from companies like KT, Namco or others.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Some pages ago. It's a fairly common stamp. This looks like a coincidence at this point. It'd be an interesting choice, but yeah, it practically means nothing.

But...the Japanese text says

“A Smash invitation has been sent and accepted...”

Spoiler

 

[Digital Hazard]

Min Min got in by her own merits, not simply because Springo was already an assist.

If Sakurai was cool with a preestablished role like a Spirit being upgraded, I don't see why an assist would be any different.

Spring Man is in the base game is an Assist Trophy, has a spirit and a Mii costume, not to mention that we got his stage with Min Min.

While I am not saying there is a definitive rule that Assist Trophies can't promote, I'm pretty sure we would have seen Spring Man in any other situation, or at least, had there been an ARMS fighter in the base game.

Min Min simply got in due to Yabuki being asked and giving the technicality of "no set protagonist, everyone is a lead character", else we'd probably be having Spring Man for being the game's Ryu who is in the cover.

 

[MooMew64]

Yeah, after giving it some thought...I honestly don't see us getting FP7 revealed right away. Nintendo is making it sound like these Presenter Showcases are a long term series they'll be doing, so my thoughts are that we'll be seeing a Sakurai presents come early September for a late September launch. FP8 will probably be a January release, assuming nothing gets delayed.

As for general Nintendo news? I honestly think if they have any more first party titles to share, they're gonna drop 'em the same way they dropped Origami King: Random tweets in the morning. Honestly expecting them to do this with the Mario remasters any time inbetween August and September. Best case scenario is that they might throw us some Wii U ports as well: Pikmin 3, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and 3D World are all prime candidates.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Well, we made it to 3400 pages at least, so that Direct was good for something, right?

Anyway, discussion time: Do you guys think we'll get a character from a currently unreleased game, like what happened with Byleth?

 

[7NATOR]

Well, we made it to 3400 pages at least, so that Direct was good for something, right?

Anyway, discussion time: Do you guys think we'll get a character from a currently unreleased game, like what happened with Byleth?

Nah, Especially since after Byleth, people are gonna be more skeptical of buying the Whole pass

Also Byleth's game was out when she got in, This would be a Corrin Situation (Corrin game didn't come out in west before Smash)

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Well, we made it to 3400 pages at least, so that Direct was good for something, right?

Anyway, discussion time: Do you guys think we'll get a character from a currently unreleased game, like what happened with Byleth?

Maybe, maybe not.

It's hard to speculate on a character we know nothing about.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Well, we made it to 3400 pages at least, so that Direct was good for something, right?

Anyway, discussion time: Do you guys think we'll get a character from a currently unreleased game, like what happened with Byleth?

Maybe, but it's hard to say when the company won't say what they're making. If we do get a Bravely Default rep, I'm of the opinion that it would probably be Seth from Bravely Default 2, which hasn't released yet. There isn't a lot of other stuff with brand new characters that we know of, so it's difficult to even speculate.

I wouldn't really consider somebody like Travis Touchdown from an unreleased game, even though he technically is, because he's had other games before. At face value it makes him somewhat less of a promotion.

 

[DanganZilla5]

Well, we made it to 3400 pages at least, so that Direct was good for something, right?

Anyway, discussion time: Do you guys think we'll get a character from a currently unreleased game, like what happened with Byleth?

I could see us getting BOTW 2 Zelda. Sakurai has mentioned Zelda's design a couple times now and the mention of her in the Min Min presentation was kind of awkward and out of left field. It likely means nothing but you have to wonder. Especially when Sakurai suddenly brought up how much of a shame the redesigned characters don't have new Amiibo.

 

[Perkilator]

Well, we made it to 3400 pages at least, so that Direct was good for something, right?

Anyway, discussion time: Do you guys think we'll get a character from a currently unreleased game, like what happened with Byleth?

IDK. In that case, it'd be a Corrin situation.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Not sure if this was brought up before but....

That envelope looks oddly familiar in the Atlier Ryza 2 trailer....

This remind me of when people saw the Smash logo in Shantae 5 intro.

 

[N3ON]

Well, we made it to 3400 pages at least, so that Direct was good for something, right?

Anyway, discussion time: Do you guys think we'll get a character from a currently unreleased game, like what happened with Byleth?

The only candidate I could see fitting this is if Monolith's upcoming game is in the Xenoblade series.

 

[Deleted member]

With the Direct Mini today being a "first in a series", it does make me wonder how many of these we'll be seeing for the rest of the year. I hope it's a biweekly thing since it's the more probable than weekly, but it's probably unlikely. I guess a month an a half is the more likely scenario for this, but we'll find out as time goes on once again.

 

[Will]

Saw the Direct with my friends. Man, **** kinda sucked. Except SMT, that **** was pretty cool.

 

[N3ON]

With the Direct Mini today being a "first in a series", it does make me wonder how many of these we'll be seeing for the rest of the year. I hope it's a biweekly thing since it's the more probable than weekly, but it's probably unlikely. I guess a month an a half is the more likely scenario for this, but we'll find out as time goes on once again.

This one was labelled "July 2020" iirc, so at the very most, I wouldn't expect more than one a month.

But frankly as of right now I've no confidence in Nintendo to deliver that frequently.

 

[Will]

Man, I expected way more partners than ****ing Fortnite clone and WWE lol. At least Atlus made sense, I'll probably pick up the SMT3 Remaster.

 

[Megadoomer]

With the Direct Mini today being a "first in a series", it does make me wonder how many of these we'll be seeing for the rest of the year. I hope it's a biweekly thing since it's the more probable than weekly, but it's probably unlikely. I guess a month an a half is the more likely scenario for this, but we'll find out as time goes on once again.

I have a feeling that it's going to be monthly at least, seeing as this was called the July showcase. Though there might be longer gaps between them.

 

[AinsOoalGown]

While I am not saying there is a definitive rule that Assist Trophies can't promote, I'm pretty sure we would have seen Spring Man in any other situation, or at least, had there been an ARMS fighter in the base game.

Min Min simply got in due to Yabuki being asked and giving the technicality of "no set protagonist, everyone is a lead character", else we'd probably be having Spring Man for being the game's Ryu who is in the cover.

No, thats like thinking only Liu Kang can represent Mortal Kombat, Sakurai flat out stated his reasoning, gave plenty of it, and even then fans were already predicting other characters for a variety of reasons, none of it related to the AT issue. If people STILL want to pretend all of it doesnt count just to say theres a rule and thats why their "prediction" was wrong or that the character got robbed simly because you predicted etc.. (no really you cant just go "all this evidence saying otherwise doesnt count because I dont want to and I wanted to predict otherwise even though I have no sourcing: this is what flat-earthers do").

then its time to accept this is denial and move on. Springman is NO Ryu and never will be, he had one game, tons of fighting games have the villain or a someone who started as a side character being considered the face or being used in all of its crossovers, its nothing new, even amongst Heavy Hitters, the "Ryus" are pretty rare actually.

At best Springo can be an important character later on depending on what a sequel does but he ain't no Scorpion, no Morrigan, no Nightmare, no Heihachi etc, now you can give a technicality as to why these examples were actually the traditional protagonists all along because of this or that, but the same goes for Springo and Minmin, make an Arms 2 with the whole cast in the cover or with a new guy, or with Min Min and this discussion is done. Its time that people accept their preditction just happened to be wrong, he wasnt going to make it and that it doesnt interfere at all with any other AT getting in, because even if Sakurai is against it, this STILL has nothing to do with the ARMs choice as it didnt even get to that point, Sakurai was flat out considering the two finalists of the big tourney even.

 

[Will]

Only now catching up to what's been going on since I was gone. Y'all really bullied another leaker out of commission?



****'s wrong with people man, imma switch to Sony if these manchildren don't get their samus-amiibo-in-a-jar looking ass together.

 

[Guynamednelson]

tells me that Sakurai has to be at least slightly against this idea as well, no matter how much he avoids saying this.

It's simple: Sakurai thought she has more moveset potential, so she gets a role with more moves. It's not your precious purity. If it was I'd think the moveset wouldn't be way too Min Min-y for alts.

 

[Sysreq]

People out here thinking that Min Min only got in because Spring Man was an assist and not that Min Min was creatively superior to Springo in every way

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Min Min got in cuz Yabuki wanted her

Nothing more, nothing less