Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Shroob]

Yeah, you'd think so. There's also the possibility of COVID delaying them, but then again, the DLCs are developed in groups of three. If they were to be released, Byleth would be the optimal time to do so.

Japan didn't issue a state of emergency until like, the 3rd or 4th month of this year about Covid iirc. I highly doubt Covid delayed them if they exist. If the DLCs are worked in groups of 3, let's assume that about a month or 2 before he came out, Terry was already done.


FP7 is literally their last chance.

 

[SharkLord]

Japan didn't issue a state of emergency until like, the 3rd or 4th month of this year about Covid iirc. I highly doubt Covid delayed them if they exist. If the DLCs are worked in groups of 3, let's assume that about a month or 2 before he came out, Terry was already done.


FP7 is literally their last chance.

Indeed. We should also consider that even if we do get Mallow and Cacodemon, that doesn't guarantee Geno or Doomguy. They could easily have a costume that wasn't shown, assuming the leak is real.

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

Only thing goin against Rex is....i don't know Pyra's clothes?

I don't know if her outfit is that much worse than ZSS's 7/8 costumes honestly. Only thing I could think of would be maybe lengthening the shorts, maybe up to where those straps are, and maybe down a bit if necessary. I wonder if CERO would have different rules for the full model compared to the spirit. They were fine with Pyra's spirit, even though they forced a change for Mythra.

 

[MooMew64]

Swordfighter actually had a costume every single wave last pass.
Brawler skipped Byleth, while Gunner skipped Hero and Terry.

Altair is pretty cool.

Yeah, but outside of Altair, none of 'em have been nearly as cool as what Gunner's getting IMO.

Which is exactly why they should add a Hat Kid Mii costume to even things out.

 

[Shroob]

I don't know if her outfit is that much worse than ZSS's 7/8 costumes honestly. Only thing I could think of would be maybe lengthening the shorts, maybe up to where those straps are, and maybe down a bit if necessary. I wonder if CERO would have different rules for the full model compared to the spirit. They were fine with Pyra's spirit, even though they forced a change for Mythra.

Cover up her butt crack and she'd be fine.

 

[Faso115]

I don't know if her outfit is that much worse than ZSS's 7/8 costumes honestly. Only thing I could think of would be maybe lengthening the shorts, maybe up to where those straps are, and maybe down a bit if necessary. I wonder if CERO would have different rules for the full model compared to the spirit. They were fine with Pyra's spirit, even though they had to change Mythra.

I found that odd because AFAIK it's Pyra's outfit the one that is considered more trashy. But i guess the artwork was fine because you see her from the front, the thing is problematic when you see it from behind (heh)

Aw crap, i brought up this topic. I deserve to be doriyahd by ganon now

 

[cosmicB]

*angry Minecraft, Perfect Dark, Conker, Killer Instinct & Battletoads noises*

Minecraft's relationship with Nintendo is pretty new, Perfect Dark was always overshadowed by Goldeneye and that wasn't getting in for obvious reasons despite straight up being a fan request, and Conker was always overshadowed by Banjo. I kind of took Killer Instinct as more of a Midway thing than a Nintendo thing, but fair enough I suppose. I'll give you Battletoads, it totally slipped my mind, though I'd argue its legacy still pales in comparison to Banjo.

I guess I should've said "most" instead of "only". My point was mostly about why they would pick Banjo over Steve or Master Chief more than anything else.

 

[DevaAshera]

Sure, but that's a big "if", considering he has no problem adding Pokemon just from their concept art or making "promotion picks" for DLC. And Sakurai can reject any character so Pokemon really isn't in a unique situation.

Oh, I know, that's why I'm saying that Pokémon is far from a sure thing..I mean, remember when everyone was sure that Wolf would be DLC in Smash 4? Smash 4 also only got Mewtwo out of Pokémon for DLC due to Melee, and character, popularity.
We could see anything happen.

I haven't kept up with leaks, can anyone give me a TLDR about them?

If we are talking first parties, the only one i'm mostly confident it could happen is Rex. Had the same things against him than ARMS did and now seeing as Min Min is a thing, his chances have skyrocketed. Plus, having Sakurai praising the game is certainly a bonus...if the fabled Sakurai Bias powers were a thing....

Only thing goin against Rex is....i don't know Pyra's clothes?

Even then, not really. Unlike Mythra's Spirit, Pyra's went unaltered..the model could be a different case, but it wouldn't be difficult to censor her outfit a little bit like they've done with characters like female Corrin and Bayonetta.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

I just remembered something that's probably pointless. Does anyone remember the rumor from last year where someone on twitter claimed that an upcoming character would be a woman with a flying weapon? Setting aside the fact it almost certainly was fake, were they ever asked if the character was from ARMS? Given how much emphasis was placed on the difficulty of creating Min Min, it wouldn't surprise me if she spent a year or so in development.

 

[cosmicB]

Pretty much any character could potentially become a Mii costume, but that doesn't mean that they should. Someone like Master Chief or Doomguy could, in theory, be made into a Mii Gunner costume, but does that seem like a great idea?

Sure. My mindset has always been expand the crossover, and if someone can't be in as playable, getting them in as a Mii is the next best thing.

Honestly, big western picks might largely have to be Mii costumes if we want that content in the game at all. People seem to think Sakurai has let his eastern bias fall a bit by bringing in Ridley, K Rool and Banjo, but consider that he literally just said he would have picked Ninjara (a character that isn't really popular anywhere outside of Japan to my knowledge) over Min Min if Yabuki didn't step in. Not a single acknowledgement of popular western picks like Twintelle.

This is a big reason why I'm skeptical of Geno and think Sakurai would probably assume people are fine with Mii costumes.


Also, on this subject, I've been thinking about how Sakurai didn't even mention Heihachi after the costume reveal. Nothing about being a fan request, nothing about returning from Smash 4, no upgrade, nothing. It was a single sentence about Vault Boy and that was it. Do you think it's possible Geno could share the same fate? I wonder what the reception to that trailer would be, if it got dislike bombed like Byleth.

I’d buy the Geno mii costume if it returned but boy would it be disappointing. Sure you could say the Mii Gunner’s moves fit him, but honestly...nah, they don’t at all, as they all look different and work differently (save for maybe the bullets, but they could still work differently and would if based on SMRPG almost exactly, and you could give him star bullets and other stuff from what he can equip). Even the beam doesn’t work quite like the gunner’s Final Smash, and Geno’s beam wouldn’t fit as a Final Smash, I don’t think, if they stayed true to his abilities.

As I said before, you could make everything work (with some liberties) except for Geno Flash with the standard visual alterations in the special Mii costume moveset. Geno Whirl for example could be recreated pretty damn well in a costume.

 

[Kokiden]

I just remembered something that's probably pointless. Does anyone remember the rumor from last year where someone on twitter claimed that an upcoming character would be a woman with a flying weapon? Setting aside the fact it almost certainly was fake, were they ever asked if the character was from ARMS? Given how much emphasis was placed on the difficulty of creating Min Min, it wouldn't surprise me if she spent a year or so in development.

Don't remember such a rumour myself, but mention of a woman with a flying weapon makes me think of 2B, since pod can shoot, as well as carry 2B while they're floating or jumping.

 

[N3ON]

I just remembered something that's probably pointless. Does anyone remember the rumor from last year where someone on twitter claimed that an upcoming character would be a woman with a flying weapon? Setting aside the fact it almost certainly was fake, were they ever asked if the character was from ARMS? Given how much emphasis was placed on the difficulty of creating Min Min, it wouldn't surprise me if she spent a year or so in development.

That person also said that FP4 was the female character in question, and that FP5 was a character that already had a role in the game. Once FP4 was revealed as Terry, and not female, that person said they mixed up FP4 and 5. But, Terry did not already have a role in the game. Even Byleth didn't have an existing role in the game.

Oh is it? I was operating from memory, so I might be wrong there. I don't have time right now to dig around for it; I'll do some tomorrow, feel free to poke me then for a followup (and that goes to anyone).

Sounds good.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

Don't remember such a rumour myself, but mention of a woman with a flying weapon makes me think of 2B, since pod can shoot, as well as carry 2B while they're floating or jumping.

At the time, most people's guesses were KOS-MOS or Reimu, among others, but both of them were dismissed by name iirc. Part of what made this rumor so anoying tricky to work through was that the person claiming these things said they hadn't seen it but their friend had.

That person also said that FP4 was the female character in question, and that FP5 was a character that already had a role in the game. Once FP4 was revealed as Terry, and not female, that person said they mixed up FP4 and 5. But, Terry did not already have a role in the game. Even Byleth didn't have an existing role in the game.

Thanks, I was fairly sure it was handily debunked but couldn't remember why.

I still wouldn't be shocked if in an upcoming Sakurai column he mentions Min Min had a longer than average development cycle.

 

[7NATOR]

I just remembered something that's probably pointless. Does anyone remember the rumor from last year where someone on twitter claimed that an upcoming character would be a woman with a flying weapon? Setting aside the fact it almost certainly was fake, were they ever asked if the character was from ARMS? Given how much emphasis was placed on the difficulty of creating Min Min, it wouldn't surprise me if she spent a year or so in development.

I remember that Rumor. The Og Rumor was Combined with statement that DQ Heroes would be coming, with no Female alts. It got the Hero thing correctly, but keep in mind the Original Post was in December of 2018 I believe. That means a Year and a Half since then for Min-Min to have been that character, and i don't think it would have went that far back.

 

[SharkLord]

I haven't kept up with leaks, can anyone give me a TLDR about them?

If we are talking first parties, the only one i'm mostly confident it could happen is Rex. Had the same things against him than ARMS did and now seeing as Min Min is a thing, his chances have skyrocketed. Plus, having Sakurai praising the game is certainly a bonus...if the fabled Sakurai Bias powers were a thing....

Only thing goin against Rex is....i don't know Pyra's clothes?

I asked a similar thing, not sure if anyone noticed.

Anyways, there's a doujin leak that claims Reimu was planned for FP6 but was delayed because of COVID, and another that calls for a League of Legends rep, a Hollow Knight PreMiium costume with Sealed Vessel, and a Trials of Mana Spirit event, the latter of which has happened. I'd say the killswitch would be FP8, given the DLCs are made in bunches of three, and we don't know how COVID affected the DLC ordering.

Assuming both are true, I'd say the original intent was Reimu/Min Min/LoL (Ahri? That's the one I really remember, and I think she's at least heavily marketed), but COVID would switch Reimu and Min Min around. It should be noted that doujin leaked specified when, while LoL leak did not; If we don't get either, it would be a bigger hit to doujin than to LoL.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Wasn't the doujin leak thing relating to a list of new remixes of Touhou songs popping up? I think that was way too long ago to be true, no? IIRC, it was before Terry, even.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Minecraft's relationship with Nintendo is pretty new, Perfect Dark was always overshadowed by Goldeneye and that wasn't getting in for obvious reasons despite straight up being a fan request, and Conker was always overshadowed by Banjo. I kind of took Killer Instinct as more of a Midway thing than a Nintendo thing, but fair enough I suppose. I'll give you Battletoads, it totally slipped my mind, though I'd argue its legacy still pales in comparison to Banjo.

I guess I should've said "most" instead of "only". My point was mostly about why they would pick Banjo over Steve or Master Chief more than anything else.

And if you wanna take it a step even further, Even though Nintendo had 49% stake in Rare and was a 2nd Party (1994-2002), Banjo-Kazooie and Killer Instinct IP's (While Rare originals) were owned, trademarked, published by Nintendo and licensed to Rare.

Diddy Kong Racing (1997) Box Trademark

All other Rare IP's (Conker, Perfect Dark etc) were self-published by Rare, But still exclusive to Nintendo consoles.

Which is another reason why Banjo-Kazooie got the biggest marketing push from Nintendo and was the most successful of Rare's "Original" IP during the N64 era.

It also explains a lot why out of all of Rare's characters and IP's, Banjo-Kazooie were the most popular and heavily requested for Super Smash Bros.

 

[7NATOR]

Man the Touhou leak is kinda hard to follow at times. I remember the guy said Reimu was supposed to be revealed earlier but the corvid got in the way. I don't know if it said She was supposed to be FP6.

Anyways guys there is something i gotta ask you guys. About a year ago I called Nintendo to Request Shadow for Smash and I told people on the discord...this is what someone said long ago

Spoiler: The Pictures in question

I'm Shadowfox. The guy said that Isaac, Waluigi, and Shadow got alot of requests.

With Sakurai not talking at all about Assists (no deconfirm or confirm), along with Min-Min perhaps being the start of things to come, could Requests like these have actually made it to Nintendo, and could have influenced some of the decisions with FP2. I remember a rumor back Around the time the game came out that Nintendo was shocked at the Backlash to Isaac. who knows what will happen

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

The doujin rumor is a long affair, but iirc the part talking about a music list turned out to be a wishlist or a selection the poster thought was probable.

could Requests like these have actually made it to Nintendo, and could have influenced some of the decisions with FP2.

I'm sure Nintendo pays some attention to fan feedback, but who can say how much information they gather, let alone how much of it they take into consideration. Sakurai once had to tweet something along the lines of "twitter feedback will not be taken into consideration" although I think he meant FP1 was already solidified by that point.

Tbh, I wonder how often Nintendo employees read though this thread, if not to take ideas to laugh at how wrong our predictions are.

 

[ZenythSmash]

My last meme for now, just for you.
View attachment 276150

nvr4get

 

[Shroob]

Man the Touhou leak is kinda hard to follow at times. I remember the guy said Reimu was supposed to be revealed earlier but the corvid got in the way. I don't know if it said She was supposed to be FP6.

Anyways guys there is something i gotta ask you guys. About a year ago I called Nintendo to Request Shadow for Smash and I told people on the discord...this is what someone said long ago

Spoiler: The Pictures in question

View attachment 276323

View attachment 276324

View attachment 276325

I'm Shadowfox. The guy said that Isaac, Waluigi, and Shadow got alot of requests.

With Sakurai not talking at all about Assists (no deconfirm or confirm), along with Min-Min perhaps being the start of things to come, could Requests like these have actually made it to Nintendo, and could have influenced some of the decisions with FP2. I remember a rumor back Around the time the game came out that Nintendo was shocked at the Backlash to Isaac. who knows what will happen

I think calling Nintendo and asking some underpaid intern is kinda a dumb idea tbh.

 

[Smash Monkey]

#First Post

So I'm sure it's been brought up here before but Imran's comments before the reveal were interesting. I know some folks have blown it off as a Min Min tease (least from my lerking), I'm wondering if it's on to something. For references, this is what he said

"I’m of the belief that Nintendo realizes what a big deal the fighter’s pass can be and wants to use it as an opportunity to sell not only an evergreen title, but evergreen DLC.......In fact, I’d go as far as to say that a primarily third party pass followed by a primarily first party pass (with minor exceptions) is smart marketing, since it gets people in for the first floor and assumes most will rise to the next one."

Now, this was, in part, a clever way Min Min, but I think it's safe to say that he at least knew that before hand and he might know more (I know he's spoken about behind the scene details such as when FP2 was decided on). So could Nintendo be using Smash to sell "evergreen DLC"?

Well poking around the website, I found something interesting. One thing you may have noticed on the website is that some of the DLC characters have a "Appears in" at the bottom of the page which links you to Nintendo's site. 5 of the 7 DLC characters have it, with the only two exceptions being Joker and Banjo. The latter doesn't have a title on Nintendo Switch and Persona 5 isn't on Switch either (though Scramble is so it is weird its excluded). What makes this interesting is that if you use the Wayback Machine, it seems these weren't added until some time in June. For instance, Terry's page does not have the "Appears in" on June 13th but it does have it now. So it seems before the addition of Min Min, Nintendo updated the site to add a link to a Nintendo.com page where you can buy the game.

So it seems that Nintendo could very well be using Vol 2 to specifically push their own games and that Vol 2 could be primarily first party. It might explain why they made the change to the website just before Min Min was shown. I figure this is also somewhat obvious with the fact they started with ARMS and not a third party character like they did with Vol 1. So perhaps Imran was on to something,

 

[Shroob]

#First Post

So I'm sure it's been brought up here before but Imran's comments before the reveal were interesting. I know some folks have blown it off as a Min Min tease (least from my lerking), I'm wondering if it's on to something. For references, this is what he said

"I’m of the belief that Nintendo realizes what a big deal the fighter’s pass can be and wants to use it as an opportunity to sell not only an evergreen title, but evergreen DLC.......In fact, I’d go as far as to say that a primarily third party pass followed by a primarily first party pass (with minor exceptions) is smart marketing, since it gets people in for the first floor and assumes most will rise to the next one."

Now, this was, in part, a clever way Min Min, but I think it's safe to say that he at least knew that before hand and he might know more (I know he's spoken about behind the scene details such as when FP2 was decided on). So could Nintendo be using Smash to sell "evergreen DLC"?

Well poking around the website, I found something interesting. One thing you may have noticed on the website is that some of the DLC characters have a "Appears in" at the bottom of the page which links you to Nintendo's site. 5 of the 7 DLC characters have it, with the only two exceptions being Joker and Banjo. The latter doesn't have a title on Nintendo Switch and Persona 5 isn't on Switch either (though Scramble is so it is weird its excluded). What makes this interesting is that if you use the Wayback Machine, it seems these weren't added until some time in June. For instance, Terry's page does not have the "Appears in" on June 13th but it does have it now. So it seems before the addition of Min Min, Nintendo updated the site to add a link to a Nintendo.com page where you can buy the game.

So it seems that Nintendo could very well be using Vol 2 to specifically push their own games and that Vol 2 could be primarily first party. It might explain why they made the change to the website just before Min Min was shown. I figure this is also somewhat obvious with the fact they started with ARMS and not a third party character like they did with Vol 1. So perhaps Imran was on to something,

Irman's like the rest of us, he may know some **** earlier than the rest, but it's extremely unlikely for him to know the entire pass at this stage.


Also, I mean, he himself pointed out it was just one big Min Min tease in the end, he even highlighted the first letter of each phrase himself.

 

[GoodGrief741]

nvr4get
View attachment 276326

Sakurai pointing out how cool Saki is every time he speaks about him is my constant mood.

 

[7NATOR]

The doujin rumor is a long affair, but iirc the part talking about a music list turned out to be a wishlist or a selection the poster thought was probable.



I'm sure Nintendo pays some attention to fan feedback, but who can say how much information they gather, let alone how much of it they take into consideration. Sakurai once had to tweet something along the lines of "twitter feedback will not be taken into consideration" although I think he meant FP1 was already solidified by that point.

Tbh, I wonder how often Nintendo employees read though this thread, if not to take ideas to laugh at how wrong our predictions are.

I'm sure there's at least 1 Nintendo Employee that reads or has read Smashboards, even if just as a guest

I think calling Nintendo and asking some underpaid intern is kinda a dumb idea tbh.

Hey you gotta do what you gonna do. I just thought going to the Source would be the best Idea.

#First Post

So I'm sure it's been brought up here before but Imran's comments before the reveal were interesting. I know some folks have blown it off as a Min Min tease (least from my lerking), I'm wondering if it's on to something. For references, this is what he said

"I’m of the belief that Nintendo realizes what a big deal the fighter’s pass can be and wants to use it as an opportunity to sell not only an evergreen title, but evergreen DLC.......In fact, I’d go as far as to say that a primarily third party pass followed by a primarily first party pass (with minor exceptions) is smart marketing, since it gets people in for the first floor and assumes most will rise to the next one."

Now, this was, in part, a clever way Min Min, but I think it's safe to say that he at least knew that before hand and he might know more (I know he's spoken about behind the scene details such as when FP2 was decided on). So could Nintendo be using Smash to sell "evergreen DLC"?

Well poking around the website, I found something interesting. One thing you may have noticed on the website is that some of the DLC characters have a "Appears in" at the bottom of the page which links you to Nintendo's site. 5 of the 7 DLC characters have it, with the only two exceptions being Joker and Banjo. The latter doesn't have a title on Nintendo Switch and Persona 5 isn't on Switch either (though Scramble is so it is weird its excluded). What makes this interesting is that if you use the Wayback Machine, it seems these weren't added until some time in June. For instance, Terry's page does not have the "Appears in" on June 13th but it does have it now. So it seems before the addition of Min Min, Nintendo updated the site to add a link to a Nintendo.com page where you can buy the game.

So it seems that Nintendo could very well be using Vol 2 to specifically push their own games and that Vol 2 could be primarily first party. It might explain why they made the change to the website just before Min Min was shown. I figure this is also somewhat obvious with the fact they started with ARMS and not a third party character like they did with Vol 1. So perhaps Imran was on to something,

Probably the Best first Post I've read. Granted I don't think this has to mean most of the characters are First party, because Nintendo could also use this feature to promote games from Companies they are buddy buddy with, which encourages more 3rd party support

I do think this is interesting that they added this feature recently if that is true. Do you think all the characters in this pass would make use of this feature or do you think there will be a few like Joker or Banjo who don't have a game yet. Also with Persona 5 Scramble coming to Switch, will they add that in for Joker later on?

 

[Ben Holt]

I think now that Vault Boy is a Mii Costume, Doom Slayer is damn near confirmed to be playable.
But also, now that Spring Man is out, I think Assist Trophies are DOA now, as unfortunate as that is for my boys Shovel Knight and Waluigi.
Losing Heihachi was also a big blow.
Half of my Volume 2 predicshlist got deconfirmed in one blow (Spring Man, Shovel Knight, and Heihachi).

I still think Crash Bandicoot and Doom Slayer are very likely, but I have to adjust the list now.
I'm thinking Rayman and Geno.

 

[Perkilator]

Man...if we did get a Resi rep and it was Leon, this render would've been the perfect basis for a Smash render.

 

[StrawHatX]

I think now that Vault Boy is a Mii Costume, Doom Slayer is damn near confirmed to be playable.
But also, now that Spring Man is out, I think Assist Trophies are DOA now, as unfortunate as that is for my boys Shovel Knight and Waluigi.
Losing Heihachi was also a big blow.
Half of my Volume 2 predicshlist got deconfirmed in one blow (Spring Man, Shovel Knight, and Heihachi).

I still think Crash Bandicoot and Doom Slayer are very likely, but I have to adjust the list now.
I'm thinking Rayman and Geno.

You think AT’s are DOA because Spring Man wasn’t the ARMS rep? That’s some strange logic.

I mean if Sakurai said “We were going to pick Spring Man, but he’s already an Assist Trophy” then I could understand where you’re coming from. But that wasn’t the case.

Min Min was chosen mainly because the creator of ARMS wanted her specifically. AT’s are no better or worse than where they were before that presentation.

 

[ZenythSmash]

...did it work for any of those series?

Smash helped FE become more well known, but the series was quite literally on death's door until Awakening saved it. Kid Icarus Uprising was just a happenstance one and done deal so again, I don't think Smash did much for that IP. And for Dragon Quest....from my understanding, DQ11 on Switch downright bombed in the west.

People vastly overestimate how much Smash helps out series. Look no further than

yeah uh no

Not only it's a very successful GCN title, it outsold the last two in-house F-Zero titles, X and Maximum Velocity (which was a timeskip sequel to the original F-Zero).
Only reason F-Zero was shelved because Nintendo just ran out of ideas to bring it back and surpass GX in terms of gameplay and content. You can say its easy, but its a gamble if you're doing a spinoff for F-Zero or a main release that isn't as good as maybe X or definitely GX.

As for the GP Legend-related spinoffs, the anime wasn't that very popular in the west as the 4K!DS dubbing got cancelled due to ratings. Not to mention that the first GP Legend game didn't sell well either, so they didn't bother to localize F-ZERO Climax; which was a great step up to GP Legend (GBA) while still bombed harder than GP Legend did in just Japan. People were more to buying the mainline games on the GCN than the anime they had little-to-no idea about until Youtube existed.


despite all this, and despite the F-Zero anime wasn't very successful outside Japan, Smash did its job well for the mainline releases.

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

I think now that Vault Boy is a Mii Costume, Doom Slayer is damn near confirmed to be playable.

I'm curious - why do you think they wouldn't have released Vault Boy with Doom Slayer?

 

[N3ON]

yeah uh no

not only it's a very successful GCN title, it outsold the last two in-house F-Zero titles, X and Maximum Velocity (which was a timeskip sequel to the original F-Zero).
as for the GP Legend-related spinoffs, the anime wasn't that very popular in the west as the 4K!DS dubbing got cancelled due to ratings. the first GP Legend game didn't sell well, so they didn't bother to localize F-ZERO Climax, which was a great step up to GP Legend (GBA) while still bombed harder than GP Legend did in just Japan. People were buying the mainline games on the GCN

only reason F-Zero was shelved because Nintendo just ran out of ideas to bring it back and surpass GX in terms of gameplay and content.
despite all this, and despite the F-Zero anime wasn't very successful outside Japan, Smash did its job well for the mainline releases.

Worth noting is that number runs contradictory to other official sources and has been called into question by numerous, generally well-informed people.

 

[Ben Holt]

I'm curious - why do you think they wouldn't have released Vault Boy with Doom Slayer?

For the same reason they didn't release Cuphead with Banjo-Kazooie or Geno with Hero.

 

[Shroob]

You think AT’s are DOA because Spring Man wasn’t the ARMS rep? That’s some strange logic.

I mean if Sakurai said “We were going to pick Spring Man, but he’s already an Assist Trophy” then I could understand where you’re coming from. But that wasn’t the case.

Min Min was chosen mainly because the creator of ARMS wanted her specifically. AT’s are no better or worse than where they were before that presentation.

You're right, but Sakurai also admits he himself considered Ninjara for the role before he was told Min Min.

It's not a hard deconfirm by any stretch, but it's a bit odd that he wouldn't have considered Spring Man first and foremost for the position.

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

For the same reason they didn't release Cuphead with Banjo-Kazooie or Geno with Hero.

Cuphead isn't owned by Microsoft. Microsoft put money into the game (which is why Studio MDHR needed Microsoft's approval to put it on Switch), but the IP is owned by MDHR. And even if he was, that's releasing him after the parent company has a character - not before.

 

[StrawHatX]

You're right, but Sakurai also admits he himself considered Ninjara for the role before he was told Min Min.

It's not a hard deconfirm by any stretch, but it's a bit odd that he wouldn't have considered Spring Man first and foremost for the position.

Sure, but Sakurai is also the kind of guy that usually tells it like it is and if he wasn’t considering Spring Man because of his AT status I feel like that’s something he would have mentioned for the people wondering why the face of ARMS wasn’t the playable character.

 

[Ben Holt]

You're right, but Sakurai also admits he himself considered Ninjara for the role before he was told Min Min.

It's not a hard deconfirm by any stretch, but it's a bit odd that he wouldn't have considered Spring Man first and foremost for the position.

Not to mention that Spring Man was the first character showed in the trailer and literally got his invitation punched out of his hands.
Sakurai also said, "You may think that Spring Man is the protagonist," which is the overwhelming consensus.
Also, the stage chosen was Spring Stadium.
And of course, this:

That's four tacit admissions that it "ought to have been" Spring Man.

I'm happy to be proven wrong, as lord knows that there are some Assist Trophies I want to play as, but at this moment, I consider Spring Man's denial to be the biggest strike against Assist Trophies.

Guess only time will tell.

 

[ZenythSmash]

Worth noting is that number runs contradictory to other official sources and has been called into question by numerous, generally well-informed people.

I'm confused, what do you mean by that?
and besides, Nintendo also gave F-Zero GX a Player's Choice release, which is know for recommending games that sold past a million copies, so it definitely sold in a success regardless if they or SEGA released the sale numbers.

 

[Shroob]

Sure, but Sakurai is also the kind of guy that usually tells it like it is and if he wasn’t considering Spring Man because of his AT status I feel like that’s something he would have mentioned for the people wondering why the face of ARMS wasn’t the playable character.

"Isn't Spring Man the main character?"

"Well, everyone is the main character, you know."


He did tell us about Spring Man, in a very roundabout way. EVERYONE in Arms is the main character.

 

[Koopaul]

You're right, but Sakurai also admits he himself considered Ninjara for the role before he was told Min Min.

It's not a hard deconfirm by any stretch, but it's a bit odd that he wouldn't have considered Spring Man first and foremost for the position.

I feel like we aren't hearing the whole story. Obviously pretty much every character was looked over. They don't make these decisions hastily. We're only hearing some of what happened behind the scenes. Now that doesn't mean that Spring Man's AT status was or wasn't a factor. But there's just not enough for us to go off of. Either way, the trailer and the artwork that followed does give you the impression that Spring Man would have been the natural choice.

 

[Ben Holt]

"Isn't Spring Man the main character?"

"Well, everyone is the main character, you know."


He did tell us about Spring Man, in a very roundabout way. EVERYONE in Arms is the main character.

Isn't Mario the main character of Super Mario Bros. 2?
No! Mario, Luigi, Peach, AND Toad are all the main characters!