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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Cosmic77

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I'm sure fans of Geno will appreciate having their character reduced to a Gunner costume with a basic moveset that doesn't even come close to representing Geno's abilities in Super Mario RPG... just like how I appreciate Heihachi being reduced to a Brawler costume with a basic moveset that plays nothing like Tekken, or how fans of Ashley and Isaac appreciate their characters being reduced to Swordfighters despite that moveset having nothing to do with their character and abilities from their respective games...

... are my thoughts on the "just settle for Mii Fighter costumes" argument not clear enough?
To be fair, I did specify that an upgraded Mii costume is my personal preference, not something that the fans would be okay with.

If it were up to me, that's how I would handle Geno. I know he has a lot of support, but I think I'd prefer getting a more iconic SE rep instead. Actually, I'd even prefer several other Mario characters before him as well. He's not my cup of tea sadly.
 

Animegamingnerd

Smash Ace
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Honestly, all three of Square Enix's leading characters have some issue confronting them:
  • Geno hasn't appeared in a game in almost 25 years and rides solely off fan demand.
  • Sora has the obvious Disney factor.
  • Sakurai first met Yoko Taro at a 2019 Christmas Party, after FP2's lineup was finalized. Given that Yuji Hori, Gregg Mayles, and Kosuke Yabuki had a major hand in getting Hero, Banjo and Kazooie, and Min Min into Smash, silence from 2B's creator doesn't bode well.
That's not to say these characters are impossible (I actually think Geno will happen myself), but the reality is we may not get ANY of these characters. Many people seem to take Square's involvement in FP2 as more of a who than if, but we may have to accept the reality that Cloud and Hero are all we'll get from Square-Enix in Ultimate.
I honestly think that the chances are higher that we don't get another Square Enix rep, then chances of us actually getting one.
 

Garteam

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I don't think Toriyama was necessarily an issue to Hero's inclusion. Just looking at how many products carry the Dragon Ball license. I can't imagine he plays hard ball when letting others use his artwork and properties.

Koichi Sugiyama, on the other hand, is a notorious cheapskate who really only looks out for his own interests. He's why Dragon Quest has such a strange relationship with orchestral and midi soundtracks, as he believes using orchestras in-game provides little incentives to buy the orchestral soundtracks separately from his own label. I have little trouble imagining him using his music as leverage to get as much money out of Smash Bros as humanly possible. There's no doubt he has talent, but he's also a grade-A asshole.

There's also his less than savoury political beliefs, but that's generally disconnected from his love of all things green.
 

Megadoomer

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Nothing special in the context of high fan demand, not specifically frequency. Geno has followed the same waxing and waning trends of other fan requested characters, with their support flaring up every time it seems like they'll have a chance, and going down when it seems like they don't. Geno fans are dedicated, just like Shantae fans, just like Lloyd fans, just like Phoenix Wright fans, etc. If the Geno costume comes back without him as playable, what do you think is going to happen to the community? Do you think it will be just as vocal as it is now?

Also, I never once used the term "just a meme". None of the demand for these characters is "just a meme". These people are dedicated and that's admirable, but they aren't the ones deciding Smash's direction.

Edit: Also, if we're going to use regional issues as a reason to dismiss characters, Geno is on the same level as some of those characters for obvious reasons.
You didn't say that a character's support was just a meme, but I've seen it come up in the past as a way to dismiss or undermine popular choices, or act as though people don't "really" support them and are just doing it to be a part of the meme or whatever.

From what I've seen, Geno's one of the last big requests, if not the last big request, that's been around since Melee but hasn't made it in. (the only other one that comes to mind is possibly Toad) He's in a weird spot where he's from a first party franchise but owned by a third party company, meaning that games like Smash Bros. are almost literally his only opportunity to make any kind of an appearance.

If Shantae or Phoenix Wright don't make it into Smash Bros., there are still going to be Shantae or Phoenix Wright games, but Geno's in this weird legal limbo that keeps him from appearing in anything. (the same thing goes for the other characters who are original to Super Mario RPG, but Geno stands out among them, and the Mario cast as a whole, due to his design and abilities) That, I think, is part of what makes him stand out when it comes to Smash speculation; he's a popular character from a well-loved RPG, and Smash Bros. is basically the only game that he can appear in due to legal issues.
 

7NATOR

Smash Master
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4,089
I know there was Dante Discussion, so I wanted to add to it

http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/data/pdf/explanation/2018/full/explanation_2018_full_02.pdf

This is March 31, 2019. if you read the Documents, you will see that (on Page 9 I believe) they said that DMCV Successfully "reinvigorated" the brand. which is good

I believe this was also around the same time that the "DMC has to be on Switch" line was dropped. has the months follow, The first 3 DMC Games would be on Switch.

I think what might help all of this is if that rumor of "Resident Evil being negotiated for but dropped" was true. at the time for that to happen, there was still uncertainty around DMC, even with the 5th game announced and coming out, we don't know how well it would have did. if the document shows, and also the sales number, DMCV did well

Perhaps it made Capcom take another look at DMC, and potentially that could have meant another Smash discussion between Capcom and Nintendo about DMC in Smash. I don't know though
 

AceAttorney9000

Smash Lord
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This is a discussion board. We're giving our opinions, not saying people can't want characters.

I've probably played SMRPG more times than a good chunk of Geno fans (many of which haven't even touched the game). It helps that I was actually alive when it came out. Outside of Geno Flash, I can't think of any moves that wouldn't be fine being covered by the visual alterations to the unique mii costumes. Hell, I'd say Mallow has better unique moveset potential on that front.

This is just standard analysis, which shouldn't need an inflammatory subjective opinion attached to it.
To be fair, I did specify that an upgraded Mii costume is my personal preference, not something that the fans would be okay with.

If it were up to me, that's how I would handle Geno. I know he has a lot of support, but I think I'd prefer getting a more iconic SE rep instead. Actually, I'd even prefer several other Mario characters before him as well. He's not my cup of tea sadly.
Fair enough. Still, it should go without saying that, when a character who fans really want to see become a fully unique and playable instead becomes a Mii Fighter costume, they're naturally gonna be upset. Not exactly the most optimal situation, and no amount of "the Mii Fighter moveset totally fits" is gonna make it any better.

Also, while I'm on the topic of Geno and Mii Fighter costumes, I'm gonna say this: if Geno is really just gonna be a Mii Fighter costume again, he should've been shown off last year during the Hero wave, not saved for a later pack. I don't care if the Hero presentation was meant to be completely "Dragon Quest-focused" (the showcasing of the then-upcoming amiibo for Isabelle, Pokemon Trainer, and Pichu goes against that anyway), it was still the most appropriate time to show off the Geno costume. Delaying the costume into Fighters Pass 2 when you could've ripped the proverbial band-aid off earlier will just make the backlash against it even worse.
 

cosmicB

Smash Ace
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Messages
657
You didn't say that a character's support was just a meme, but I've seen it come up in the past as a way to dismiss or undermine popular choices, or act as though people don't "really" support them and are just doing it to be a part of the meme or whatever.

From what I've seen, Geno's one of the last big requests, if not the last big request, that's been around since Melee but hasn't made it in. (the only other one that comes to mind is possibly Toad) He's in a weird spot where he's from a first party franchise but owned by a third party company, meaning that games like Smash Bros. are almost literally his only opportunity to make any kind of an appearance.

If Shantae or Phoenix Wright don't make it into Smash Bros., there are still going to be Shantae or Phoenix Wright games, but Geno's in this weird legal limbo that keeps him from appearing in anything. (the same thing goes for the other characters who are original to Super Mario RPG, but Geno stands out among them, and the Mario cast as a whole, due to his design and abilities) That, I think, is part of what makes him stand out when it comes to Smash speculation; he's a popular character from a well-loved RPG, and Smash Bros. is basically the only game that he can appear in due to legal issues.
I think it's important to note that BIG requests can also be region-based. There's absolutely a bubble there, and you can't know every BIG request without knowing the full global Smash fanbase landscape.

Would it surprise you if I said Japan treated a character like Ayumi Tachibana the way parts of the west treats Geno, right down to Sakurai flat out wanting her in the game? We also have Sakurai saying things like he wants the world to appreciate Japanese games and Smash is an avenue to do that for him. Let's not erase other massive regions in our attempt to place a hard number on fan requests when you can throw a dart at a map and wherever it lands will give you an entirely different set of requested characters outside of global mainstays like Sora.

Geno's lack of a legacy or future is another discussion entirely, and trust me it's something I can empathize with, albeit in different ways. I just don't really think it's entirely relevant to this discussion outside of the feelings of fans when I'm trying to avoid subjectivity entirely.

Edit: Oh, and there's no telling if we'll actually get another Phoenix Wright game at this point, so there's that.

Fair enough. Still, it should go without saying that, when a character who fans really want to see become a fully unique and playable instead becomes a Mii Fighter costume, they're naturally gonna be upset. Not exactly the most optimal situation, and no amount of "the Mii Fighter moveset totally fits" is gonna make it any better.

Also, while I'm on the topic of Geno and Mii Fighter costumes, I'm gonna say this: if Geno is really just gonna be a Mii Fighter costume again, he should've been shown off last year during the Hero wave, not saved for a later pack. I don't care if the Hero presentation was meant to be completely "Dragon Quest-focused" (the showcasing of the then-upcoming amiibo for Isabelle, Pokemon Trainer, and Pichu goes against that anyway), it was still the most appropriate time to show off the Geno costume. Delaying the costume into Fighters Pass 2 when you could've ripped the proverbial band-aid off earlier will just make the backlash against it even worse.
I mean I'm not going to police my own language on things I see as more objective like moveset potential, especially not in a general speculation thread. There are plenty of characters I would love in a vacuum, but can't envision them having a moveset worthy of the DLC uniqueness we've seen up until now. If you want softball skepticism that's drowned out by unmitigated hype, you can go to the character thread of your choice and find it there.

And I agree, all characters with a large fanbase should've had their bandaids ripped off as early as possible. But Heihachi shows that Sakurai and Nintendo don't actually care on that front. Is it cruel? Sure. Is it something the vast majority of the fanbase will care about? Nah, and it won't have a lasting effect on anything whether it be competitive, sales, etc. People will move on, even fans of the characters that got mii costume'd.
 
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Animegamingnerd

Smash Ace
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What is happening on July 7th?
Some fools are tricking themselves into thinking that we will get the next fighter revealed on July 7th, on the logic by that the next fighter is both challenger pack 7 and fighter 77, so therefore it must be revealed on July 7th. Also you get bonus points in the setting up for disappointment game if you say that this fighter has something to do with the number 7 outside of being both challenge pack 7 and fighter 77.
 

TriggerX

Smash Ace
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Messages
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Personally Id love to see Geno is smash, however my issue with the character is his design and my expectations for smash.

Overtime I realized I like the Geno that was portrayed by fans, not Nintendo. Smashified for example did an amazing job on their execution of the character's appearance, but we aren't guaranteed to get that level of detail or proportions for an official reveal.

His original renders were very stocky and stiff so there hasn't been too many official images to really reference him by.

Thats why I wouldn't mind seeing a mii costume upgrade for Geno rather than full playable. Characters who cant be as accurately portrayed by that method like Dante, Sora, Crash, etc. would be safer bets than gambling with Nintendo to see how they debut a 20 something year old character.
 

SpectreJordan

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I think using Banjo as a "therefore, Geno" argument is a bit misguided.

MS has only one franchise with any shared legacy with Nintendo, and that's B&K.
*angry Minecraft, Perfect Dark, Conker, Killer Instinct & Battletoads noises*

I think adding SE characters in Smash has been a struggle for both companies.
Maybe the next SE franchise will be a smoother ride than the first two.
I think Nier would be a pretty easy add. There’s only two games, its creator seems pretty chill, its composer already works on Smash & it’s something Square actively wants to push.

I definitely think 2B is an underrated choice. Sakurai has said in the past that he wants to use Smash to show the world how great Japanese games are. Nier is one of the biggest Japanese games this gen & probably the biggest success story from Japan. Sakurai even wrote an article about Nier’s story.

I know there was Dante Discussion, so I wanted to add to it

http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/data/pdf/explanation/2018/full/explanation_2018_full_02.pdf

This is March 31, 2019. if you read the Documents, you will see that (on Page 9 I believe) they said that DMCV Successfully "reinvigorated" the brand. which is good

I believe this was also around the same time that the "DMC has to be on Switch" line was dropped. has the months follow, The first 3 DMC Games would be on Switch.

I think what might help all of this is if that rumor of "Resident Evil being negotiated for but dropped" was true. at the time for that to happen, there was still uncertainty around DMC, even with the 5th game announced and coming out, we don't know how well it would have did. if the document shows, and also the sales number, DMCV did well

Perhaps it made Capcom take another look at DMC, and potentially that could have meant another Smash discussion between Capcom and Nintendo about DMC in Smash. I don't know though
I definitely think a RE character was being planned. Capcom & Sakurai deciding on another series is the only thing that makes sense regarding RE not happening; Capcom seemingly never passes up on crossover opportunities, so I doubt there was any disagreements.

It makes sense that Capcom decided to go with Dante to continue DMC’s popularity resurgence. I could see Sakurai agreeing because of Dante’s moveset potential & the fun challenge of stuffing it into a Smash character.

If we get another set of DLC, I hope they’d go back to RE though. It definitely deserves a spot in Smash.
 

RileyXY1

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*angry Minecraft, Perfect Dark, Conker, Killer Instinct & Battletoads noises*



I think Nier would be a pretty easy add. There’s only two games, its creator seems pretty chill, its composer already works on Smash & it’s something Square actively wants to push.

I definitely think 2B is an underrated choice. Sakurai has said in the past that he wants to use Smash to show the world how great Japanese games are. Nier is one of the biggest Japanese games this gen & probably the biggest success story from Japan. Sakurai even wrote an article about Nier’s story.



I definitely think a RE character was being planned. Capcom & Sakurai deciding on another series is the only thing that makes sense regarding RE not happening; Capcom seemingly never passes up on crossover opportunities, so I doubt there was any disagreements.

It makes sense that Capcom decided to go with Dante to continue DMC’s popularity resurgence. I could see Sakurai agreeing because of Dante’s moveset potential & the fun challenge of stuffing it into a Smash character.

If we get another set of DLC, I hope they’d go back to RE though. It definitely deserves a spot in Smash.
There might not even be a Capcom character.
 

Icedragonadam

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Looks like it's Crashboards time!

Anyways, considering that Season 2 is likely using a lower budget than season 1, I don't see any of the big name characters like Sora and Crash considering how expensive they would cost to use considering who owns them.
 

Guybrush20X6

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What's up with the boards? How hard can it be to add a member to a supporter's list.

I think Season 2 will have more 1st parties but I can still see some big 3rd parties wanting to get on board.
Have to wonder how much of their budget the SNK remixes took from Season 1 tho...
 

Nekoo

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Everyone like to point out that Hero was moved from Base game to DLC as a "Square is annoying" point.
But everyone forget that their broke their own Golden Rule to never make DQ Heroes cross over with each others and fight each others exclusively for smash too. Which is why Ironically, Dragon Quest Heroes have no Hero from DQ.
We also go the Seiken Densetsu 3 Remake spirits events with all of the protagonists.

When in reality, I just think that Square-Enix misshandled some of it's oldest IP by doing something that is generally nice, AKA giving credit and leaving ownerships to the authors of OST and Artworks. Which, when you make a game is good.
However when you try to bring back content of said game, or make crossover is a legal mess and get very quickly expensive.

That's all there is to it I think, really-
 

SNEKeater

Smash Master
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Messages
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I know there was Dante Discussion, so I wanted to add to it

http://www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/data/pdf/explanation/2018/full/explanation_2018_full_02.pdf

This is March 31, 2019. if you read the Documents, you will see that (on Page 9 I believe) they said that DMCV Successfully "reinvigorated" the brand. which is good

I believe this was also around the same time that the "DMC has to be on Switch" line was dropped. has the months follow, The first 3 DMC Games would be on Switch.

I think what might help all of this is if that rumor of "Resident Evil being negotiated for but dropped" was true. at the time for that to happen, there was still uncertainty around DMC, even with the 5th game announced and coming out, we don't know how well it would have did. if the document shows, and also the sales number, DMCV did well

Perhaps it made Capcom take another look at DMC, and potentially that could have meant another Smash discussion between Capcom and Nintendo about DMC in Smash. I don't know though
This document says DMC5 sold 2 million of copies, and this is from March 2019. Nowadays the game has sold 3,5M. IIRC is the best selling entry of the franchise and according to Capcom's expectations the game has been completely successful.

About RE being discussed for Smash, I remember that someone (maybe it was PapaGenos?) said that Jill was planned but didn't make it. Nothing more. It could have been the case but we don't have anything to find if that was true or not. The only option would be if Sakurai himself talked about how he was planning in adding her, but I really doubt he will talk about it.
 

Rie Sonomura

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What's up with the boards? How hard can it be to add a member to a supporter's list.

I think Season 2 will have more 1st parties but I can still see some big 3rd parties wanting to get on board.
Have to wonder how much of their budget the SNK remixes took from Season 1 tho...
we may still get some third parties but nobody too big. Crash I can see as the sole exception.
 

pupNapoleon

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No, he's literally saying that ARMS doesn't have a core protagonist. That's the point. Spring Man is the mascot, but he's not the core protagonist(cause there is none). Ribbon Girl is the other mascot. Min Min is not the mascot but could become one in a later game(and we see clearly that she's right beside Spring Man even then).

Non-core was a poor way of saying it, I admit. Sorry for that confusion.

But yeah, I don't see how any of this affects mascot status at this time. Could it in the future? Sure. But as of now, the mascot simply did not get in Smash first, and since ARMS never had a core protagonist to begin with, a good chunk of characters could be playable. But the real reason Min Min got in was due to a request by the creator. It's possible many things could've influenced him(including the Party Crash Bash), but who knows. Doesn't really say anything about mascot or protagonist status either way. It wasn't meant to.
Something I'd like to address on the matter of mascots and the status of Min Min and Spring Man. Like I said, we have no idea how things will go in the future for ARMS. But I want you all to pay attention to this. Even pupNapoleon pupNapoleon :

These are the two picture of Min Min's victory. Her Party Crash victory and her Smash Welcoming picture.


What do these picture have in common? Spring Man. These are Min Min's big moments but the ARMS team felt compelled to make Spring Man the biggest face in pic 1 and have him appear in the background in Pic 2.

I strongly believe that the ARMS team still see Spring Man as important. ARMS had two faces when it launched, Spring Man and Ribbon Girl. Min Min is obviously a new face but why does Spring Man have to lose that status when we know there can be two? I think Spring Man will still be a prominent figure in ARMS. This idea that Min Min will completely take over and Spring Man will be just one of the other guys is ridiculous to me. After all of Min Min's success they still felt the need to have Spring Man there. If they didn't care about him anymore why do that? Why draw him in the window? Why make his face so huge in the Party Crash pic? And this is after the fact. After the ARMS team knew how popular Min Min is.
Here is the thing... and perhaps I've been unclear...
I'm not saying Spring Man is being replaced. I'm saying he has never been the mascot of ARMS.
Sure, he is the most used in promotion. That in itself doesnt mean he is the mascot. A mascot is a choice character to represent a brand or character. To me, from the beginning, Spring Man was always, and quite frankly only, used as a means to explain the game. It is even why he is in Smash as an AT, as far as I can tell, and on the cover- because he explains what ARMS is. Down to his name. Even Sakurai uses a literal spring to explain the concept of ARMS to others- it is clear that this is the reason that Spring Man was on the cover of the first game, he just explains, and easily (visually and by name) sells the concept of the game. The new game.... that isn't a mascot. It's just an explanatory gimmick to help this new series out in as few steps as possible.

The fact that he is the AT is why he is in the images...though I will argue in the first image, Koopaul Koopaul , that Twintelle is actually more prominent, since she is almost the same size. She is also on the left- and while not all cultures read left to right, it is much more common, especially in the West, and is actually the order psychologically (as well as in theatrical and artistic study) that people will interpret an image, all else being equal.

There is a great video I'm looking for right now that explains that not just the creator of ARMS, but many on the team, say that Min Min is 'the most relatable.' That she was designed, from the beanie, the image on her chest, the dragon, the ramen, and even, "her sharp features," because at least in the east, that is all incredibly relatable. I'm really going to try to find this video that pulls these quotations. If many people on the ARMS team say that Min Min is the most relatable, that to me means she is already considered the mascot. (the channel is all about video game stories that explain the backgrounds with cute drawings and with real facts, if anyone else can think of the channel).

But.... additionally... facts
- Min Min is the one in Smash (Sakurai)
- The creative team of ARMS pushes Min Min and chose her
- The community fan poll voted Min Min
- She canonically won the first game and tournament

She is the incoming mascot, not the current mascot. But, there wasnt a mascot in the first place.
 

GoodGrief741

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Messages
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I think it's important to note that BIG requests can also be region-based. There's absolutely a bubble there, and you can't know every BIG request without knowing the full global Smash fanbase landscape.

Would it surprise you if I said Japan treated a character like Ayumi Tachibana the way parts of the west treats Geno, right down to Sakurai flat out wanting her in the game? We also have Sakurai saying things like he wants the world to appreciate Japanese games and Smash is an avenue to do that for him. Let's not erase other massive regions in our attempt to place a hard number on fan requests when you can throw a dart at a map and wherever it lands will give you an entirely different set of requested characters outside of global mainstays like Sora.

Geno's lack of a legacy or future is another discussion entirely, and trust me it's something I can empathize with, albeit in different ways. I just don't really think it's entirely relevant to this discussion outside of the feelings of fans when I'm trying to avoid subjectivity entirely.

Edit: Oh, and there's no telling if we'll actually get another Phoenix Wright game at this point, so there's that.



I mean I'm not going to police my own language on things I see as more objective like moveset potential, especially not in a general speculation thread. There are plenty of characters I would love in a vacuum, but can't envision them having a moveset worthy of the DLC uniqueness we've seen up until now. If you want softball skepticism that's drowned out by unmitigated hype, you can go to the character thread of your choice and find it there.

And I agree, all characters with a large fanbase should've had their bandaids ripped off as early as possible. But Heihachi shows that Sakurai and Nintendo don't actually care on that front. Is it cruel? Sure. Is it something the vast majority of the fanbase will care about? Nah, and it won't have a lasting effect on anything whether it be competitive, sales, etc. People will move on, even fans of the characters that got mii costume'd.
What you're saying is that Ayumi is the Geno of Japan, therefore using Geno fan logic, she's nearly a lock?

I'm so in favor of living in that delusion.
 

Koopaul

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Twintelle is clearly not the same size as Spring Man in that pic. I don't know man. It's obvious to everyone that Spring Man was the face of ARMS. But you don't want to admit it and make up excuses. You just hate the guy and giving into your bias.
 
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pupNapoleon

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To be fair, I did specify that an upgraded Mii costume is my personal preference, not something that the fans would be okay with.

If it were up to me, that's how I would handle Geno. I know he has a lot of support, but I think I'd prefer getting a more iconic SE rep instead. Actually, I'd even prefer several other Mario characters before him as well. He's not my cup of tea sadly.
I love Geno...I just think that being an upgraded costume should be the choice to appeal to most people. I understand he has a huge... already playing Smash... fanbase, but if a character CAN be a Mii costume, I think they SHOULD be a mii costume (upgraded, meaning). Geno is the perfect candidate for this, as he has the arm, a blank face, and moves that are relatively equivalent. There are big audiences they could bring into Smash if they use Sora or Lara Croft, which are easily the two biggest characters left from franchises, as far as numerical value and recognition go (Tomb Raider, as an example, being one of the most successful media franchises of all time that comes from a video game, thanks in part to the movies). I would prefer that Smash goes big.
 

ZenythSmash

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So, do you guys think this is the final FP?
the same as every sendoff per Launch/DLC, who were deemed as "anti-hype" to most of the fanbase.
Am I the only one who thinks there should've been a second Smash Ballot?
Nah, no thanks.
not to mention the fact the data has been gathered and a little tradtional internet research wouldn't hurt to rely on again, they don't even need to refer mostly to the ballot at this point.

and there no need for another Smash polling that not guranteeing a consideration anyways, because nobody read that catch before Ms. Ballot Winner debutted.

It was worse during the Grinch leak anyway.
Yeah, i wonder why? Totally wasn't due to the assumption that the rest of the choices so forth would be mostly from the ballot, and the dissent for new generation Pokemon not being the most favored one, so they took the hoax for granted, No?
and yes, Ridley was, officially stated, a ballot influence.
 

CannonStreak

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I love Geno...I just think that being an upgraded costume should be the choice to appeal to most people. I understand he has a huge... already playing Smash... fanbase, but if a character CAN be a Mii costume, I think they SHOULD be a mii costume (upgraded, meaning). Geno is the perfect candidate for this, as he has the arm, a blank face, and moves that are relatively equivalent. There are big audiences they could bring into Smash if they use Sora or Lara Croft, which are easily the two biggest characters left from franchises, as far as numerical value and recognition go (Tomb Raider, as an example, being one of the most successful media franchises of all time that comes from a video game, thanks in part to the movies). I would prefer that Smash goes big.
Some people just don't want a Mii costume, and even with a smaller fanbase, believing in what you want is powerful, and it is ultimately the happiness of fans that is the real cost here. Happiness is what should matter if fans are happy and those who try him out and like him are happy. Just saying.
 

pupNapoleon

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Also, while I'm on the topic of Geno and Mii Fighter costumes, I'm gonna say this: if Geno is really just gonna be a Mii Fighter costume again, he should've been shown off last year during the Hero wave, not saved for a later pack. I don't care if the Hero presentation was meant to be completely "Dragon Quest-focused" (the showcasing of the then-upcoming amiibo for Isabelle, Pokemon Trainer, and Pichu goes against that anyway), it was still the most appropriate time to show off the Geno costume. Delaying the costume into Fighters Pass 2 when you could've ripped the proverbial band-aid off earlier will just make the backlash against it even worse.
If Geno were an upgraded Mii Costume... well... those didnt exist until Terry. I don't know how this timeline works for you. Perhaps the idea for the upgrades started with Sans and Terry, and got expanded over time.
 

Koopaul

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Just because Geno is a great candidate for a Deluxe Mii costume doesn't mean he has to be. To many people Ridley was perfect as a boss. It was the "perfect" role. He was menacing and dangerous. Shrinking him down would "ruin" his appeal. That's what I heard all the time. But people still wanted him playable. And we got it.
 

CannonStreak

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One word... no.

Last time Nintendo did this, fans voted stupid characters like Goku, Shrek, Spongebob, Freddy Fazbear and characters who are assists like Waluigi.
That is probably not a good enough reason to not do it, and Waluigi is not that bad. But I did hear speculation based on the ballot was intensely bad, something like that?
 

pupNapoleon

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Am I the only one who thinks there should've been a second Smash Ballot?
This was the second Smash ballot.
The first came out, in Japan only, after Smash 64. The results can easily be googled, with a lot of the top characters (I believe examples are Peach and Ganondorf) coming into the game.

A fan poll takes a LOT of resources. I dont think you are considering the amount of money it takes to run an actual poll at this level, especially one where every individual language is used, much less a WRITE IN answer.

I would much rather all that $$$ be used to just have another character. Use the old ballot. Truly, not enough has changed.

EDIT: This was a bit older than I realized, I was gone a few days
 
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Rie Sonomura

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One word... no.

Last time Nintendo did this, fans voted stupid characters like Goku, Shrek, Spongebob, Freddy Fazbear and characters who are assists like Waluigi.
Don't forget Powerpuff Girls (like that one dude on Miiverse)
 
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