Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

basically, if Geno were that free bonus DLC instead of PP, I could have seen that happening. But otherwise, Geno just wouldn't be that profitable. Especially compared to Joker (from a worldwide JRPG phenomenon), Hero (DQ is a huge ass deal in Japan, pop culture staple and granddaddy of JRPGs) and Banjo (Microsoft by technicality, Nintendo by origin and in spirit. Also, much bigger nostalgia factor and was actually marketed). the accessibility issue others have mentioned also hurts his chances (which granted can also apply to Banjo, but again, Banjo also had more stuff in his favor)

 

[CannonStreak]

That's not the case, Nintendo didn't want to pay for Nomura and Uematsu's royalties while also paying Steve Burton which is why FF is so lacking in everything. Nintendo, and Smash itself really, has an anti-union history

I did not see it for you were a cowaed who hid the good boy

I did say "some other things", so I was trying to be mindful of that. Didn't know, but didn't want to rule it out. Please tell me more, if you wish.

 

[Nightguything]

I wonder, what did Sakurai say about Lloyd’s Mii costume?

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/21/nintendodream3/

“ Lloyd:
—The Tales series has 20 years of history, how did you decide on Lloyd for the costume?
Sakurai: I’m not sure if there was any other appropriate choice?
—For example, how about the protagonist of the first game, Cress? [TN: From Tales of Phantasia]
Sakurai: I really think it has to be Lloyd here (laughs). I could have gone down the route of choosing from the first entry in the series, but for old games it’s somewhat common for the editorial supervision from the original creator to make the process difficult. “

Basically that Lloyd was the appropriate tales rep choice at the time.

 

[CannonStreak]

So, why is Nintendo against unions, anyway? Would it hurt to ask?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Saw a few fans of the series in the thread before, so... this dropped an hour or two ago.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/21/nintendodream3/

“ Lloyd:
—The Tales series has 20 years of history, how did you decide on Lloyd for the costume?
Sakurai: I’m not sure if there was any other appropriate choice?
—For example, how about the protagonist of the first game, Cress? [TN: From Tales of Phantasia]
Sakurai: I really think it has to be Lloyd here (laughs). I could have gone down the route of choosing from the first entry in the series, but for old games it’s somewhat common for the editorial supervision from the original creator to make the process difficult. “

Basically that Lloyd was the appropriate tales rep choice at the time.

AT THE TIME.

I still think Lloyd's costume will return since Heihachi's did, so either: they'll choose a different Tales rep as playable (Velvet Crowe didn't exist back then; could also use Yuri Lowell or the Arise protag) OR use a different Namco character altogether (Chosen Undead, Nightmare, KOS-MOS etc)

...or we don't get a new Namco character at all, which would be the worst outcome. They do AT LEAST deserve one more character, accusations of nepotism be damned. They ARE working on it after all

 

[I.D.]

Geno then makes the jump into Ultimate with a spirit, and despite all the returning costumes slowly making reappearances with the DLC and being in a perfect position to come with Hero but so far being nowhere to be found for 6 DLC costume waves now.

Square didn't allow any non-DQ content in the Hero presentation. It's also why the chocobo mii costume didn't come with Hero.

Min Min's presentation proved that the trend of new fighters coming with returning third party mii costumes from Smash 4 is going to continue in the second pass. We still have 5 fighters to go, as many as the entire first pass. Only Lloyd, Gil, Chocobo, Geno and Monster Hunter are missing at this point. If they wanted they could even spread them out among every remaining fighter.

 

[cosmicB]

I already said this yesterday, but for me personally, I'd prefer to see an upgraded Geno Mii costume that's bundled with "Beware the Forest Mushrooms".

The Mii Gunner moveset suits Geno, and if you combine that with an actual Geno model instead of a Mii with a face that resembles Geno's, it'd probably be close to playing as the real thing.

Yeah, I really don't see what new playstyles Geno could bring without massive concessions.

Joker has Arsene, Hero has an rng menu, Banjo has wonderwing, Terry has Go, Byleth has the FE weapon triangle, and Min Min has air smash attacks and a non standard special due to A and B being mapped to different arms. What would Geno do that would be on par with these? Timed button presses? So like the rest of the game?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah, I really don't see what new playstyles Geno could bring without massive concessions.

Joker has Arsene, Hero has an rng menu, Banjo has wonderwing, Terry has Go, Byleth has the FE weapon triangle, and Min Min has air smash attacks and a non standard special due to A and B being mapped to different arms. What would Geno do that would be on par with these? Timed button presses? So like the rest of the game?

Timed button presses could work better with a Rhythm Heaven/rhythm game character and even then I doubt that'll happen either

 

[Cosmic77]

I think adding SE characters in Smash has been a struggle for both companies.

Out of the six DLC characters so far, Hero feels like the character who was the hardest to add. He was orginally going to be a fighter for the base game, but SE requested he be DLC so they could make a bigger profit. Sakurai also went out of his way to help them promote DQXIS by basing Hero off of Luminary instead of Erdrick, making the stage be based off of a location in DQXI, making a special Spirit to encourage people to try out the demo for the new game, and then attending a special Dragon Quest event to help promote the series. Then you also have the stinginess of the composer, which is why we couldn't get much DQ music.

Maybe the next SE franchise will be a smoother ride than the first two.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I already said this yesterday, but for me personally, I'd prefer to see an upgraded Geno Mii costume that's bundled with "Beware the Forest Mushrooms".

The Mii Gunner moveset suits Geno, and if you combine that with an actual Geno model instead of a Mii with a face that resembles Geno's, it'd probably be close to playing as the real thing.

My interpretation of this was always that mii gunner specifically erased the need for Geno because he could get "kind of close" with his envisioned moveset. That was not a factor in Brawl because, well, mii fighters didn't exist.

I obviously could be wrong here, but that's just how I always took it. There's been a trend among the DLC in introducing unique playstyles and Sakurai might not really see the potential in Geno that couldn't be covered by the standard zoning tools that is Mii gunner.

I'm sure fans of Geno will appreciate having their character reduced to a Gunner costume with a basic moveset that doesn't even come close to representing Geno's abilities in Super Mario RPG... just like how I appreciate Heihachi being reduced to a Brawler costume with a basic moveset that plays nothing like Tekken, or how fans of Ashley and Isaac appreciate their characters being reduced to Swordfighters despite that moveset having nothing to do with their character and abilities from their respective games...

... are my thoughts on the "just settle for Mii Fighter costumes" argument not clear enough?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People really like saying Square's difficult to work with when the last Spirits added to the game were Square

So, why is Nintendo against unions, anyway? Would it hurt to ask?

Unions means paying good wages, Nintendo are cheapskates who don't want to pay more money

 

[Wunderwaft]

AT THE TIME.

I still think Lloyd's costume will return since Heihachi's did, so either: they'll choose a different Tales rep as playable (Velvet Crowe didn't exist back then; could also use Yuri Lowell or the Arise protag) OR use a different Namco character altogether (Chosen Undead, Nightmare, KOS-MOS etc)

...or we don't get a new Namco character at all, which would be the worst outcome. They do AT LEAST deserve one more character, accusations of nepotism be damned. They ARE working on it after all

To add to this, Vesperia wasn't on Nintendo consoles until last year. A lot has changed in the past five years and I don't see Lloyd as the only possible Tales protagonist for Smash anymore.

Anyways, executive input has made me wonder if Takahashi also talked to Sakurai and asked him to put a character from Xenoblade in the game, or hell, if he even asked to put Kos-Mos. Min Min made me more open on the possibility of Kos-Mos getting in since executives could push for it to happen, especially since now we know Heihachi is a mii costume.

 

[cosmicB]

I think adding SE characters in Smash has been a struggle for both companies.

Out of the six DLC characters so far, Hero feels like the character who was the hardest to add. He was orginally going to be a fighter for the base game, but SE requested he be DLC so they could make a bigger profit. Sakurai also went out of his way to help them promote DQXIS by basing Hero off of Luminary instead of Erdrick, making the stage be based off of a location in DQXI, making a special Spirit to encourage people to try out the demo for the new game, and then attending a special Dragon Quest event to help promote the series. Then you also have the stinginess of the composer, which is why we couldn't get much DQ music.

Maybe the next SE franchise will be a smoother ride than the first two.

I do wonder how the Trials of Mana spirit event meeting went down. It's the only other free SQEX content that isn't Cloud, two songs, and two SMRPG spirits.

 

[Perkilator]

I think adding SE characters in Smash has been a struggle for both companies.

Out of the six DLC characters so far, Hero feels like the character who was the hardest to add. He was orginally going to be a fighter for the base game, but SE requested he be DLC so they could make a bigger profit. Sakurai also went out of his way to help them promote DQXIS by basing Hero off of Luminary instead of Erdrick, making the stage be based off of a location in DQXI, making a special Spirit to encourage people to try out the demo for the new game, and then attending a special Dragon Quest event to help promote the series. Then you also have the stinginess of the composer, which is why we couldn't get much DQ music.

Maybe the next SE franchise will be a smoother ride than the first two.

Depends which franchise they add next. How smoothly would things go if it were Kingdom Hearts or TWEWY?

 

[CannonStreak]

Unions means paying good wages, Nintendo are cheapskates who don't want to pay more money

More like cheapshots, if you ask me, even if it means the same thing, but I'd prefer that term myself.

I'd say Nintendo needs to open up more, even if that will never happen.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Depends which franchise they add next. How smoothly would things go if it were Kingdom Hearts or TWEWY?

KH is owned by Disney, SE just makes the games and has some occasional FF and TWEWY in it

 

[Nightguything]

AT THE TIME.

I still think Lloyd's costume will return since Heihachi's did, so either: they'll choose a different Tales rep as playable (Velvet Crowe didn't exist back then; could also use Yuri Lowell or the Arise protag) OR use a different Namco character altogether (Chosen Undead, Nightmare, KOS-MOS etc)

...or we don't get a new Namco character at all, which would be the worst outcome. They do AT LEAST deserve one more character, accusations of nepotism be damned. They ARE working on it after all

Lol I mean you asked, personally I’d want Lloyd to be playable but I’d be fine with any tales of representation. Honestly I find it weird that there hasn’t been any.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

To add to this, Vesperia wasn't on Nintendo consoles until last year. A lot has changed in the past five years and I don't see Lloyd as the only possible Tales protagonist for Smash anymore.

Anyways, executive input has made me wonder if Takahashi also talked to Sakurai and asked him to put a character from Xenoblade in the game, or hell, if he even asked to put Kos-Mos. Min Min made me more open on the possibility of Kos-Mos getting in since executives could push for it to happen, especially since now we know Heihachi is a mii costume.

IMO KOS-MOS could be counted as a Namco rep, not a Xeno rep. She's been moreso in Namco crossovers to a point she's a staple of said crossovers. They DID also consider a Xenosaga HD Trilogy but said it wasn't "financially feasible". Maybe that'll change in a few months to a year.

or, Nintendo just wants KOS-MOS. And Elma, since Sakurai wanted Rex but apparently Nintendo didn't and they're calling the shots for DLC

Depends which franchise they add next. How smoothly would things go if it were Kingdom Hearts or TWEWY?

for KH, you'd have Disney to contend with. if it can be pulled off tho, THAT **** WILL PRINT SO MUCH MONEY YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE. if they can't negotiate though, they may go for TWEWY, which is still successful and has a wave of promotion incoming with an anime and MAYBE a sequel game

 

[Perkilator]

KH is owned by Disney, SE just makes the games and has some occasional FF and TWEWY in it

It's still a franchise born at Square Enix, and adopted by Disney.

 

[jamesster445]

Since we are still talking Geno, I have made a list of things in his favor, why he is not in, and what go against him being included. Here they are.

Reasons why he may get in.

-High fan demand

-Sakurai likes him and wants him in

-Good gameplay potential

-Square no longer being stingy with their characters.

-Spirits do not deconfirm

Reasons why he as not in yet.

-Cloud was the last veteran to get into Ultimate

-Hero was decided to be DLC first

Reasons against him getting in.

-Irrelavancy, has not appeared in a game for along time, not counting the cameo in the original Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga

-Was a supporting character, compared to Banjo-Kazooie and K. Rool, who were main characters and had a bigger legacy.

-Was in one game,

-While the one game he was in was fondly remembered, he was just one part that made it good.

-Not many people outside his fanbase may know who Geno is.

-Accessibility to his games is limited as the rereleases are few in number

-May not be profitable

-Nintendo is choosing the DLC characters, not Sakurai, and thus they may have little interest in him.

-Came from a spinoff and not one game

-He is owned by a different company

-Nintendo might stilll be stingy about letting him in Smash Bros. Ultimate

-Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars is obscure, and Geno, by extension, is probably even more obscure.

Anything I missed? Let me know. Still, the things that go against Geno seem to outweigh the things in his favor. What do you all think?

-Heihachi was also wanted by Sakurai, but Heihachi was added in as a Mii Costume, which could apply to Geno.

- True. He's very popular with the smash community. But I think it's worth remembering that the "Smash community" only makes up about 10% of the player base. I believe that was what former NoA employee Chris Pranger said (Correct me if I'm wrong).
- Sakurai considered Geno in Brawl, he also actively developed Dixie Kong and she's still MIA. The man usually always go back to his old ideas.
- Don't know about that one Chief. Between both Megaman and Mii gunner, what does Geno offer that these 2 can't? You could say Timed Hits but so can any Mario RPG character. And because those are 1st party characters, Ninty doesn't have to deal with Square.
- Square is absolutely still stingy about content, very little has actually changed. Between the complete lack of FF7 content and the watered down version of the DQ music, nothing has changed. If Smash Ultimate is a party, Square is the guy that didn't bring a gift because they think their presence is the gift.
- This is true, proven by Min Min.
- Goes with the whole Stingy Square Enix bit.
- Same as above.
- Yeah,
- Again yeah
- Yeah again
- Yep, but I'll be fair in saying that he was the best character in the game.
- If Banjo fans were "boomers", I don't know what you would call Geno fans. Obviously younger crowds do not care for this character at all. It's people my age (Mid to late 20s) that do.
- Could easily be resolved thanks to SNES online. But we haven't gotten any RPGs on that platform yet.
- People will buy the character regardless. For as much as people complained about Corrin/Byleth they weren't not going to complete the roster for when playing with their friends locally.
- Nintendo chose Banjo.
- Again similar mechanics can be repped through 1st party characters.
- Doubt it.
- Again, "boomers"

My only real question is why Geno fans have been bother Nintendo to put the character in Smash, and not bothering Square to do literally anything with the character that THEY own.

 

[cosmicB]

I'm sure fans of Geno will appreciate having their character reduced to a Gunner costume with a basic moveset that doesn't even come close to representing Geno's abilities in Super Mario RPG... just like how I appreciate Heihachi being reduced to a Brawler costume with a basic moveset that plays nothing like Tekken, or how fans of Ashley and Isaac appreciate their characters being reduced to Swordfighters despite that moveset having nothing to do with their character and abilities from their respective games...

... are my thoughts on the "just settle for Mii Fighter costumes" argument not clear enough?

This is a discussion board. We're giving our opinions, not saying people can't want characters.

I've probably played SMRPG more times than a good chunk of Geno fans (many of which haven't even touched the game). It helps that I was actually alive when it came out. Outside of Geno Flash, I can't think of any moves that wouldn't be fine being covered by the visual alterations to the unique mii costumes. Hell, I'd say Mallow has better unique moveset potential on that front.

This is just standard analysis, which shouldn't need an inflammatory subjective opinion attached to it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Square is absolutely still stingy about content, very little has actually changed. Between the complete lack of FF7 content and the watered down version of the DQ music, nothing has changed. If Smash Ultimate is a party, Square is the guy that didn't bring a gift because they think their presence is the gift.

Your examples are both cases of rights not being owned by Square, Uematsu and Sugiyama are to blame on those

It's still a franchise born at Square Enix, and adopted by Disney.

No, Disney's been in it since the beginning. Going to Square for KH would only be out of formality to get Nomura's input on how Sora's implemented, as Disney's the one who neess to be paid for that

 

[cosmicB]

- Could easily be resolved thanks to SNES online. But we haven't gotten any RPGs on that platform yet.

Breath of Fire.

 

[Perkilator]

No, Disney's been in it since the beginning. Going to Square for KH would only be out of formality to get Nomura's input on how Sora's implemented, as Disney's the one who neess to be paid for that

I'm not saying they haven't. I'm just saying they took most control later down in the series' lifespan.

 

[CannonStreak]

- True. He's very popular with the smash community. But I think it's worth remembering that the "Smash community" only makes up about 10% of the player base. I believe that was what former NoA employee Chris Pranger said (Correct me if I'm wrong).
- Sakurai considered Geno in Brawl, he also actively developed Dixie Kong and she's still MIA. The man usually always go back to his old ideas.
- Don't know about that one Chief. Between both Megaman and Mii gunner, what does Geno offer that these 2 can't? You could say Timed Hits but so can any Mario RPG character. And because those are 1st party characters, Ninty doesn't have to deal with Square.
- Square is absolutely still stingy about content, very little has actually changed. Between the complete lack of FF7 content and the watered down version of the DQ music, nothing has changed. If Smash Ultimate is a party, Square is the guy that didn't bring a gift because they think their presence is the gift.
- This is true, proven by Min Min.
- Goes with the whole Stingy Square Enix bit.
- Same as above.
- Yeah,
- Again yeah
- Yeah again
- Yep, but I'll be fair in saying that he was the best character in the game.
- If Banjo fans were "boomers", I don't know what you would call Geno fans. Obviously younger crowds do not care for this character at all. It's people my age (Mid to late 20s) that do.
- Could easily be resolved thanks to SNES online. But we haven't gotten any RPGs on that platform yet.
- People will buy the character regardless. For as much as people complained about Corrin/Byleth they weren't not going to complete the roster for when playing with their friends locally.
- Nintendo chose Banjo.
- Again similar mechanics can be repped through 1st party characters.
- Doubt it.
- Again, "boomers"

My only real question is why Geno fans have been bother Nintendo to put the character in Smash, and not bothering Square to do literally anything with the character that THEY own.

On one of those things, the third one, I meant good gameplay potential as in being fun, not for having a timed hits thing or some kind of gimmick, though I could have misspoken there.

So yes, people will buy the character, but not everyone buys DLC. I can see some, or even plenty of people not buy Geno while others will. When did I say anything about boomers, though?

As for some other things, I am just saying Nintendo may not be interested in making a spinoff, one time, obscure character like Geno a DLC character. They may just not choose him. But as we both know, some things can end up wrong, so this is rather a possibility than something 100% true.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not saying they haven't. I'm just saying they took most control later down in the series' lifespan.

Which really doesn't change anything as they owned it from the very beginning

 

[jamesster445]

Your examples are both cases of rights not being owned by Square, Uematsu and Sugiyama are to blame on those

We didn't even get a PNG of Cloud himself.

Breath of Fire.

Duly noted, thank you.

On one of those things, the third one, I meant good gameplay potential as in being fun, not for having a timed hits thing or some kind of gimmick, though I could have misspoken there.

So yes, people will buy the character, but not everyone buys DLC. I can see some, or even plenty of people not buy Geno while others will. When did I say anything about boomers, though?

As for some other things, I am just saying Nintendo may not be interested in making a spinoff, one time, obscure character like Geno a DLC character. They may just not choose him. But as we both know, some things can end up wrong, so this is rather a possibility than something 100% true.

- I see, I mentioned it because Sakurai has stated that he wants the characters of Vol 2 to have unique mechanics, which is what he was sort of doing with Vol 1. Time will tell how he goes through with that.
- The boomer comment was a reference to Banjo fans. Banjo was also an obsecure character that mostly remembered by 90s kids on the N64. And obviously the younger generations may not care as much for Banjo as say the "boomers". My point is that Geno is an even older and more obscure character than Banjo.

 

[Megadoomer]

Except there's not.

Lloyd, Isaac, Lip, Ashley, Takamaru, and that's only among the non-crazy massive AAA franchises. Geno isn't special beyond having a really big thread on a niche game-specific forum (a thread that some flat out see as a pariah I might add).

It seems unnecessarily dismissive to compare Geno's support to Takamaru or Lip, relatively obscure characters whose games have only left Japan in an untranslated state, or Ashley, a character who's existed for roughly as long as the demand for Geno in Smash has, and whose Smash popularity is much more recent. Same thing goes for Lloyd, whose demand seemed to largely pick up once Pac-Man was included and after the earlier-mentioned interview where Sakurai said that if one Tales character was included in some form, it would have to be Lloyd.

Dismissing the support for Geno as being "nothing special" would be like doing the same for a character like K. Rool, or saying that Ridley support was "just a meme".

 

[Cutie Gwen]

We didn't even get a PNG of Cloud.

Duly noted, thank you.

Which would have required Nomura to get royalties for his artwork

 

[SharkLord]

I think adding SE characters in Smash has been a struggle for both companies.

Out of the six DLC characters so far, Hero feels like the character who was the hardest to add. He was orginally going to be a fighter for the base game, but SE requested he be DLC so they could make a bigger profit. Sakurai also went out of his way to help them promote DQXIS by basing Hero off of Luminary instead of Erdrick, making the stage be based off of a location in DQXI, making a special Spirit to encourage people to try out the demo for the new game, and then attending a special Dragon Quest event to help promote the series. Then you also have the stinginess of the composer, which is why we couldn't get much DQ music.

Maybe the next SE franchise will be a smoother ride than the first two.

Wait, Erdrick was to be in the base game? Where'd you hear that?

Saw a few fans of the series in the thread before, so... this dropped an hour or two ago.

Last year, there were trademarks for Mr. Driller, Klonoa, and Splatterhouse...
Now we've gotten Mr. Driller back...
Please tell me this means what I think it means...

 

[Garteam]

Honestly, all three of Square Enix's leading characters have some issue confronting them:

• Geno hasn't appeared in a game in almost 25 years and rides solely off fan demand.
• Sora has the obvious Disney factor.
• Sakurai first met Yoko Taro at a 2019 Christmas Party, after FP2's lineup was finalized. Given that Yuji Hori, Gregg Mayles, and Kosuke Yabuki had a major hand in getting Hero, Banjo and Kazooie, and Min Min into Smash, silence from 2B's creator doesn't bode well.

That's not to say these characters are impossible (I actually think Geno will happen myself), but the reality is we may not get ANY of these characters. Many people seem to take Square's involvement in FP2 as more of a who than if, but we may have to accept the reality that Cloud and Hero are all we'll get from Square-Enix in Ultimate.

 

[CannonStreak]

Honestly, all three of Square Enix's leading characters have some issue confronting them:

• Geno hasn't appeared in a game in almost 25 years and rides solely off fan demand.
• Sora has the obvious Disney factor.
• Sakurai first met Yoko Taro at a 2019 Christmas Party, after FP2's lineup was finalized. Given that Yuji Hori, Gregg Mayles, and Kosuke Yabuki had a major hand in getting Hero, Banjo and Kazooie, and Min Min into Smash, silence from 2B's creator doesn't bode well.

That's not to say these characters are impossible (I actually think Geno will happen myself), but the reality is we may not get ANY of these characters. Many people seem to take Square's involvement in FP2 as more of a who than if, but we may have to accept the reality that Cloud and Hero are all we'll get from Square-Enix in Ultimate.

https://smashboards.com/threads/newcomer-dlc-speculation-discussion.453424/page-3173#post-23989146

I listed more than just that reason on the reasons against him being in Smash Bros. Ultimate, just so you know.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wait,

Sakurai himself said that Hero was planned for base game, but moved back as DLC, likely for business reasons due to needing to pay less to Toriyama and Sugiyama

 

[cosmicB]

It seems unnecessarily dismissive to compare Geno's support to Takamaru or Lip, relatively obscure characters whose games have only left Japan in an untranslated state, or Ashley, a character who's existed for roughly as long as the demand for Geno in Smash has, and whose Smash popularity is much more recent. Dismissing the support for Geno as being "nothing special" would be like doing the same for a character like K. Rool, or saying that Ridley support was "just a meme".

Nothing special in the context of high fan demand, not specifically frequency. Geno has followed the same waxing and waning trends of other fan requested characters, with their support flaring up every time it seems like they'll have a chance, and going down when it seems like they don't. Geno fans are dedicated, just like Shantae fans, just like Lloyd fans, just like Phoenix Wright fans, etc. If the Geno costume comes back without him as playable, what do you think is going to happen to the community? Do you think it will be just as vocal as it is now?

Also, I never once used the term "just a meme". None of the demand for these characters is "just a meme". These people are dedicated and that's admirable, but they aren't the ones deciding Smash's direction.

Edit: Also, if we're going to use regional issues as a reason to dismiss characters, Geno is on the same level as some of those characters for obvious reasons.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

TBH with The new KH game coming on switch, I dont see how people think it will be a problem when that game is filled with useless disney stuff

and yet, people ignore that

 

[jamesster445]

Which would have required Nomura to get royalties for his artwork

Nintendo was able to pay royalties to every other artist including Yoji Shinwaka, Ayumi Kojima, and Akira Toriyama. But you're saying Nomura is too expensive for that?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Last year, there were trademarks for Mr. Driller, Klonoa, and Splatterhouse...
Now we've gotten Mr. Driller back...
Please tell me this means what I think it means...

Klonoa, fittingly enough, is always in a perpetual state of being dormant, then waking up for one game (or a webcomic, in one instance), then going dormant again. After we didn't get that Lunatea's Veil remake and the animated movie was cancelled, having something after this long would make me really happy.

 

[Gribbo]

I really don't see Velvet happening as "the Tales character". She's not TOO popular, and she's losing the title of "newest protagonist" soon. And also this is a game for good boys and girls. Really I think it's down to Lloyd or Yuri. Lloyd's clearly more popular with the Smash crowd but Yuri's more popular with the Tales crowd, so it could really go either way.

But the saddest thing about all of this is that even if Lloyd got in, he probably wouldn't sound like Robin anymore.

 

[N3ON]

If Final Fantasy is the outlier, and Nintendo has managed to acquire a good deal of content from every other series on the roster, it suggests more that the people involved charge exorbitant licensing fees rather than Nintendo cheaping out.

I mean, in almost every other regard, Smash is not a game that makes "budget" decisions. They clearly are working with a lot of capital.