Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Mamboo07]

About so called "fourth parties", I must say even if they were allowed in Smash, something tells me getting any of them, even Shrek, would be a very, very, very hard thing to do. It would be a nightmare for Sakurai, huh?

Yup.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Some people just don't want a Mii costume, and even with a smaller fanbase, believing in what you want is powerful, and it is ultimately the happiness of fans that is the real cost here. Happiness is what should matter if fans are happy and those who try him out and like him are happy. Just saying.

Happiness is not all that should matter in the fan base... And even happiness is not all that straight forward. Let me give an example.

Some fans may be happy that Geno is in. Including Me. Great. Most of those people already play Smash. And not everyone who has Smash will buy Geno.
This means Nintendo may make less money from Geno than other characters, because he is unlikely to sell as well, much less sell fewer games, and fewer consoles. The result of this is less Money to Nintendo from Smash, and less of a likelihood of a third pass. A third pass is something most fans can get behind, which would make everyone happy.

I may want Geno, but I'd much rather have a well-selling character (of course, I'm speculating, this is just a simple example).

 

[CannonStreak]

Happiness is not all that should matter in the fan base... And even happiness is not all that straight forward. Let me give an example.

Some fans may be happy that Geno is in. Including Me. Great. Most of those people already play Smash. And not everyone who has Smash will buy Geno.
This means Nintendo may make less money from Geno than other characters, because he is unlikely to sell as well, much less sell fewer games, and fewer consoles. The result of this is less Money to Nintendo from Smash, and less of a likelihood of a third pass. A third pass is something most fans can get behind, which would make everyone happy.

I may want Geno, but I'd much rather have a well-selling character (of course, I'm speculating, this is just a simple example).

I know not everyone would not buy Geno. I think I said it before. Still, I can imagine people curious to try him out and buy him for that reason. It won't be just the fans. And I bet there were characters that did not make much money as DLC, like Byleth to a small, but incomplete extent, maybe?

As for the happiness thing, it is not just Geno fans that would be happy, as I have said. I mean, Smash is a series made for the fans for the most part, as it is basically fan service. That is kinda what I meant for happiness. So even if Geno still did not sell well, the happiness of those who like him would still matter.

Then again, I must admit, a Mii costume would probably help raise awareness to who he is before he becomes playable, considering how well the Wii U and its Smash game did not do. I'd still want him playable, though.

 

[Slime Master]

Is there proof of this?

Sakurai mentioned in the DQ11 livestream that Hero was meant to be in base game but was held back for financial reasons. But IIRC he specifically said Sugiyama was the roadblock.

 

[Megadoomer]

I love Geno...I just think that being an upgraded costume should be the choice to appeal to most people. I understand he has a huge... already playing Smash... fanbase, but if a character CAN be a Mii costume, I think they SHOULD be a mii costume (upgraded, meaning). Geno is the perfect candidate for this, as he has the arm, a blank face, and moves that are relatively equivalent. There are big audiences they could bring into Smash if they use Sora or Lara Croft, which are easily the two biggest characters left from franchises, as far as numerical value and recognition go (Tomb Raider, as an example, being one of the most successful media franchises of all time that comes from a video game, thanks in part to the movies). I would prefer that Smash goes big.

This doesn't seem like it would appeal to most people, though. People who support Geno would likely be annoyed that he's relegated to a Mii costume again, and people who don't support Geno wouldn't care. (and almost certainly wouldn't buy it)

I haven't played enough of Tomb Raider to know how well Lara would translate into Smash, and while I know that Sora's owned by Disney, I'm not sure how much of a barrier that would be. It just seems weird to look at 15+ years of consistent fan demand and support for Geno, look at how Smash Ultimate has given us plenty of pipe dream characters that had previously been dismissed for lack of relevance or rights issues, and assume that people would be totally fine with him being included as just a Mii costume.

Pretty much any character could potentially become a Mii costume, but that doesn't mean that they should. Someone like Master Chief or Doomguy could, in theory, be made into a Mii Gunner costume, but does that seem like a great idea? Would a Shantae Mii Brawler costume or a Conker Mii Swordfighter costume be an adequate substitute for making the character playable? Not really. So far, Smash Ultimate's done a pretty good job at avoiding the gut punches of Smash 4's Mii costumes, with the possible exception of Heihachi; I'd hate to see that trend stop.

Saying that Geno shouldn't be playable because he'd be "perfect" as a Mii costume seems like saying that Ridley shouldn't be playable because he'd be "perfect" as a boss.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Sakurai mentioned in the DQ11 livestream that Hero was meant to be in base game but was held back for financial reasons. But IIRC he specifically said Sugiyama was the roadblock.

Can I see a source for the livestream?

 

[ZenythSmash]

I've never understood the "Steve stands out too much argument."


When a game has things like Mr.Game and Watch, Pac Man, Mario and Bayonetta able to stand shoulder to shoulder despite drastically different designs and proportions, Steve wouldn't even stand out that much to be blunt.


"He's ugly" is one of the lamest excuses I've ever seen.

it's "K.Rool is too ugly and fat" all over again

 

[Slime Master]

Can I see a source for the livestream?

https://www.jp.square-enix.com/presents/info/20190926002191.html

 

[7NATOR]

I still think we could get big 3rd parties

though honestly if Min-Min is really the first character they decided to show off, kind of like how Joker suggested (Most) of the pass were gonna be new 3rd parties, I'm predicting that at least 3/6 of the characters in this FP are already in the game in some form. Probably more Spirit upgrades and maybe even an assist Upgrade

 

[GoodGrief741]

I love Geno...I just think that being an upgraded costume should be the choice to appeal to most people. I understand he has a huge... already playing Smash... fanbase, but if a character CAN be a Mii costume, I think they SHOULD be a mii costume (upgraded, meaning). Geno is the perfect candidate for this, as he has the arm, a blank face, and moves that are relatively equivalent. There are big audiences they could bring into Smash if they use Sora or Lara Croft, which are easily the two biggest characters left from franchises, as far as numerical value and recognition go (Tomb Raider, as an example, being one of the most successful media franchises of all time that comes from a video game, thanks in part to the movies). I would prefer that Smash goes big.

How would a costume appeal to more people than him being playable? His fans will obviously be happy if he's playable and angry if he isn't, and the rest will either be ambivalent either way or be happier with the fighter if they take a liking to him.

One word... no.

Last time Nintendo did this, fans voted stupid characters like Goku, Shrek, Spongebob, Freddy Fazbear and characters who are assists like Waluigi.

One of these is not like the others.

This was the second Smash ballot.
The first came out, in Japan only, after Smash 64. The results can easily be googled, with a lot of the top characters (I believe examples are Peach and Ganondorf) coming into the game.

A fan poll takes a LOT of resources. I dont think you are considering the amount of money it takes to run an actual poll at this level, especially one where every individual language is used, much less a WRITE IN answer.

I would much rather all that $$$ be used to just have another character. Use the old ballot. Truly, not enough has changed.

EDIT: This was a bit older than I realized, I was gone a few days

Damn this guy legit thinks it takes the same amount of cash to pay some interns to read and count character names than to make a character in Smash.

Imma go ask SourceGaming to pony up the cash to make Bandana Dee and Crash playable, because clearly they have it.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I’d buy the Geno mii costume if it returned but boy would it be disappointing. Sure you could say the Mii Gunner’s moves fit him, but honestly...nah, they don’t at all, as they all look different and work differently (save for maybe the bullets, but they could still work differently and would if based on SMRPG almost exactly, and you could give him star bullets and other stuff from what he can equip). Even the beam doesn’t work quite like the gunner’s Final Smash, and Geno’s beam wouldn’t fit as a Final Smash, I don’t think, if they stayed true to his abilities.

I think Legacy XP and Crusade do a good job with him, using moves from his game. They definitely give him a fun and unique play style based on SMRPG with some original moves included (but still based on the concept of him being a star spirit possessing a weaponized doll).

Here is the thing... and perhaps I've been unclear...
I'm not saying Spring Man is being replaced. I'm saying he has never been the mascot of ARMS.
Sure, he is the most used in promotion. That in itself doesnt mean he is the mascot. A mascot is a choice character to represent a brand or character. To me, from the beginning, Spring Man was always, and quite frankly only, used as a means to explain the game. It is even why he is in Smash as an AT, as far as I can tell, and on the cover- because he explains what ARMS is. Down to his name. Even Sakurai uses a literal spring to explain the concept of ARMS to others- it is clear that this is the reason that Spring Man was on the cover of the first game, he just explains, and easily (visually and by name) sells the concept of the game. The new game.... that isn't a mascot. It's just an explanatory gimmick to help this new series out in as few steps as possible.

The fact that he is the AT is why he is in the images...though I will argue in the first image, @Koopaul , that Twintelle is actually more prominent, since she is almost the same size. She is also on the left- and while not all cultures read left to right, it is much more common, especially in the West, and is actually the order psychologically (as well as in theatrical and artistic study) that people will interpret an image, all else being equal.

There is a great video I'm looking for right now that explains that not just the creator of ARMS, but many on the team, say that Min Min is 'the most relatable.' That she was designed, from the beanie, the image on her chest, the dragon, the ramen, and even, "her sharp features," because at least in the east, that is all incredibly relatable. I'm really going to try to find this video that pulls these quotations. If many people on the ARMS team say that Min Min is the most relatable, that to me means she is already considered the mascot. (the channel is all about video game stories that explain the backgrounds with cute drawings and with real facts, if anyone else can think of the channel).

But.... additionally... facts
- Min Min is the one in Smash (Sakurai)
- The creative team of ARMS pushes Min Min and chose her
- The community fan poll voted Min Min
- She canonically won the first game and tournament

She is the incoming mascot, not the current mascot. But, there wasnt a mascot in the first place.

iirc only the art director talked about how relatable Min Min was, and he still said Spring Man was his favorite in the same interview. Yabuki, the game’s director, also said Spring Man was his favorite in that interview, before talking about Twintelle. In another interview, Yabuki said Min Min was his favorite, however he still had Spring Man as his second favorite. I’m not sure about after that.

Spring Man, however, despite them considering all of the roster as protagonists, clearly gets the most emphasis in marketing and stuff (which counts as what you said a mascot is, as they’re using him to represent the game in stuff more than the others). He’s at or near the front and center of artwork he appears in even with other characters included, and is even just behind Min Min in her PCB champion artwork while being a focal point in her Smash trailer even (and appearing in her Smash artwork the ARMS team made). He’s also closest to the screen in her Final Smash. I feel that, even if Min Min becomes a mascot, Spring Man will likely still be the primary mascot if he doesn’t just share the spotlight with Min Min.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Pretty much any character could potentially become a Mii costume, but that doesn't mean that they should. Someone like Master Chief or Doomguy could, in theory, be made into a Mii Gunner costume, but does that seem like a great idea? Would a Shantae Mii Brawler costume or a Conker Mii Swordfighter costume be an adequate substitute for making the character playable? Not really. So far, Smash Ultimate's done a pretty good job at avoiding the gut punches of Smash 4's Mii costumes, with the possible exception of Heihachi; I'd hate to see that trend stop.

Saying that Geno shouldn't be playable because he'd be "perfect" as a Mii costume seems like saying that Ridley shouldn't be playable because he'd be "perfect" as a boss.

There is a specific skeleton and moveset that the Mii Upgraded costumes use. You seem to be referring to my post as if the upgraded costumes are help in the same regard as the regular Mii costumes. I know, at least to many, there is a pretty big difference between the two.

Of course, you don't need to agree with me, but yes- I do think Geno is the perfect Mii costume (upgraded), for the reasons I stated in the post you quoted.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, i wonder why? Totally wasn't due to the assumption that the rest of the choices so forth would be mostly from the ballot, and the dissent for new generation Pokemon not being the most favored one, so they took the hoax for granted, No?

Not sure what's up with the attitude, the focal point of that post was that people were in better spirits during most of the ballot than retrospect would suggest. The Grinch leak was an ancillary point of comparison that you've taken far out of context by seemingly implying my obliviousness towards an argument I wasn't making. I know why people were upset during the Grinch leak, I was there. My post wasn't about that.

and yes, Ridley was, officially stated, a ballot influence.

I know, that's why I listed him.

My skepticism is because Sakurai was aware of Ridley's popularity long before the ballot, and at the very least gave serious consideration to how he would work in Smash 4, if not took further steps to realize him that didn't pan out. All the ballot would've done is re-affirmed what he already knew, which is why its role in getting Ridley playable is, at best, only a partial truth imo.

What I think is likelier is that Sakurai just came around on the idea in the face of the sustained demand. But the ballot provided some of that sustained demand, so it gets credit.


I think you misunderstood me on both counts here.

 

[pupNapoleon]

How would a costume appeal to more people than him being playable? His fans will obviously be happy if he's playable and angry if he isn't, and the rest will either be ambivalent either way or be happier with the fighter if they take a liking to him.

One of these is not like the others.

I said another character would appeal to more people than Geno, not that Geno would appeal to more people.

Damn this guy legit thinks it takes the same amount of cash to pay some interns to read and count character names than to make a character in Smash.

Imma go ask SourceGaming to pony up the cash to make Bandana Dee and Crash playable, because clearly they have it.

Actually, it likely costs more. There is a reason that a vote recount is such a controversial cause in the USA- its a costly matter. Obviously thats a bigger scale, but at least those votes are tallied in a computer. Each smash vote had to be actually read in its native tongue. I dont think you understand the complexities of actually COUNTING the polling. And for... no reason to actually poll. Your joke about Source Gaming is not relevant in any way- they are a great team who translates occasional Smash items from one language into another. Not a team who counts (I'll guess tens of thousands) of votes in who knows how many languages.

 

[SharkLord]

I still think we could get big 3rd parties

though honestly if Min-Min is really the first character they decided to show off, kind of like how Joker suggested (Most) of the pass were gonna be new 3rd parties, I'm predicting that at least 3/6 of the characters in this FP are already in the game in some form. Probably more Spirit upgrades and maybe even an assist Upgrade

As I've said before, it'll likely be a reverse of the first pass, including Piranha Plant. In other words, four first-parties and two third-parties.

I’d buy the Geno mii costume if it returned but boy would it be disappointing. Sure you could say the Mii Gunner’s fit him, but honestly...nah, they don’t at all, as they all look different and work differently (save for maybe the bullets, but they could still work differently, and you could give him star bullets and other stuff from what he can equip). Even the beam doesn’t work quite like the gunner’s Final Smash, and Geno’s beam wouldn’t fit as a Final Smash, I don’t think, if they stayed true to his abilities.

I think Legacy XP and Crusade do a good job with him, using moves from his game. They definitely give him a fun and unique play style based on SMRPG with some original moves included (but still based on the concept of him being a star spirit possessing a weaponized doll).


iirc only the art director talked about how relatable Min Min was, and he still said Spring Man was his favorite in the same interview. Yabuki, the game’s director, also said Spring Man was his favorite in that interview, before talking about Twintelle. In another interview, Yabuki said Min Min was his favorite, however he still had Spring Man as his second favorite. I’m not sure about after that.

Spring Man, however, despite them considering all of the roster as protagonists, clearly gets the most emphasis in marketing and stuff (which counts as what you said a mascot is, as they’re using him to represent the game in stuff more than the others). He’s at or near the front and center of artwork he appears in even with other characters included, and is even just behind Min Min in her PCB champion artwork while being a focal point in her Smash trailer even (and appearing in her Smash artwork the ARMS team made). He’s also closest to the screen in her Final Smash. I feel that, even if Min Min becomes a mascot, Spring Man will likely still be the primary mascot if he doesn’t just share the spotlight with Min Min.

If a Geno PreMii happens I'd buy it in a heartbeat so I can create Genosans, Cupgeno, and Vault Geno.

 

[CannonStreak]

I said another character would appeal to more people than Geno, not that Geno would appeal to more people.

I have to say that despite what I may have said before, that is most definitely true, even if it doesn't stop Geno fans from wanting Geno, but still. That is all.

 

[pupNapoleon]

iirc only the art director talked about how relatable Min Min was, and he still said Spring Man was his favorite in the same interview. Yabuki, the game’s director, also said Spring Man was his favorite in that interview, before talking about Twintelle. In another interview, Yabuki said Min Min was his favorite, however he still had Spring Man as his second favorite. I’m not sure about after that.

Spring Man, however, despite them considering all of the roster as protagonists, clearly gets the most emphasis in marketing and stuff (which counts as what you said a mascot is, as they’re using him to represent the game in stuff more than the others). He’s at or near the front and center of artwork he appears in even with other characters included, and is even just behind Min Min in her PCB champion artwork while being a focal point in her Smash trailer even (and appearing in her Smash artwork the ARMS team made). He’s also closest to the screen in her Final Smash. I feel that, even if Min Min becomes a mascot, Spring Man will likely still be the primary mascot if he doesn’t just share the spotlight with Min Min.

Only the game director, Mr Yabuki, is in the direct. There is a lot more to the story than just whats stated here. Other creatives had commented about 'favorite character' other times.

 

[MooMew64]

Yeah, I can't say people would be happy with a Geno Mii costume. Sure, it'd be easy to make the costume look cool, and it opens possibilities for memes, but...It wouldn't be Geno, and people who want him playable want him to be his own character, not a skin.

 

[Garteam]

Honestly, once a character gets to a certain level of fan demand, it's hard to give them anything that's not a full character and expect a positive response from said fans. Expectations are just too great and the mob mentality is too high for anything but the full golden goose. It happened with Ridley's boss in Smash for Wii U and it happened with Waluigi's assist trophy in Ultimate. I honestly think Geno's fanbase also enters that camp, so bringing back the Mii Costume (even if its better than nothing) would likely be met with the same enthusiasm as a jury duty notice.

 

[Perkilator]

I made a moveset for Sakura Shinguji from the Sakura Wars series.

Spoiler: Sakura Moveset

Intro: Cherry blossom petals blow around Sakura as she performs her signature pre-battle pose.

Stance/Idle 1: Her idle animation from the Project X Zone series.
Idle 2: Sakura slightly pushes back her hair.
Idle 3: Sakura takes out her blade for a second, then sheathes it again.

Notable Palette Swaps:
-Her pink kimono (default)
-Iris and Jean Paul (green/brown)
-Gemini Sunrise (red/brown)
-Maria Tachibana (dark blue)
-Combat outfit (alternate costume)
-Sumire’s combat outfit (purple)
-Kanna’s combat outfit (red)
-Ogami’s combat clothes (white)


Walk: Sakura walks gracefully.

Dash: Sakura sprints with her sword in hand.

Damage: Sakura covers her face with her right hand.

Jump: Sakura jumps as if she’s falling down a chute.

Crouch: Sakura sits upright with both knees on the ground.


Weapon of Choice: Reiken-Arataka, Sakura’s katana handed down to her, with which she can slice single water droplets with ease. She’s a master of the Hokushin Itto Ryu sword technique.


Normal Attacks
Jab: Sakura performs three standard jabs to the middle, and then the left and right (8%, small knockback)
Forward+A: Sakura slashes down in front of her (7%, small knockback; 10% at the tip, OK knockback)
Down+A: Sakura sweep kicks below a target’s legs, tripping them (6%, small knockback)
Up+A: Sakura swipes her katana above herself to the left (8%, small knockback)


Aerial Attacks
Air+A: Sakura slices around herself, similar to Ike’s N-Air (11%, OK knockback)
Air Forward+A: Sakura slices downward (11% with a meteor effect, OK knockback)
Air Back + A: Sakura turns around as she slices backward (14%, OK knockback)
Air Up+A: Sakura spins a mop above herself (13%, OK knockback)
Air Down+A: Sakura swings a mop downwards (16% with a meteor effect, OK knockback)


Dash Attack: Sakura speeds past the target as she slashes them (12%, OK knockback). If the target is above 100%, there is a chance they’ll be K.O.’d instantly.
Edge Attack: Sakura gets back up and slashes straight down (7%, small knockback)
Get-Up Attack: Sakura quickly sweep kicks the floor (5%, small knockback)


Smash Attacks
Forward+A: Sakura steps forward and slashes with her sword in flames (22%, medium knockback)
Up+A: Sakura jumps up and slashes twice in rapid succession (18%, OK knockback)
Down+A: Sakura slashes several cherry blossom petals around her in half (15%, OK knockback), which then swirl around her (9%, medium knockback)


Grab Game
Grab: Sakura grabs the target with both hands.
Pummel: Sakura slaps the target with her right hand (1%)
Forwards+Throw: Sakura pushes the target forward (12%, OK knockback)
Down+Throw: Sakura jumps over the target and trips them without dealing any damage.
Back+Throw: Sakura strafes around the target and slashes them (13%, OK knockback)
Up+Throw: Sakura spins once and launches the target diagonally upwards (8%, medium knockback)


Special Moves
B : Ouka Hoshin; Sakura sends out a large pink blade projectile. It goes about the same length as Cloud’s Blade Beam, but is much faster and can hit multiple opponents at once (7% per hit, OK knockback). It also has priority over other projectiles, but getting hit by one causes it to slow down and disappear after hitting anything else (6%, small knockback)
B + Forwards : Hyakka Ryoran; Sakura dashes forward a short distance, surrounded in flame (14%, OK knockback); you can tilt the control stick in the opposite direction for a second dash (9%, OK knockback)
B + Up : Rising Sakura; Sakura floats high up in a wind of cherry blossom petals, and can do anything after before she hits the ground again. Pressing Up and B again has Sakura slice upward as she jumps upward and forward a small distance (11%, OK knockback)
B + Down : Clean Up; Sakura takes out a mop and sweeps the floor, which pushes nearby opponents away (13%, OK-medium knockback). Tilting the control stick to the left or right after initiating the attack moves Sakura in that direction, but the power and knockback decrease after a while.

Final Smash: Koubu Strike; Sakura speeds forward and slashes the target(s) (11%). The targets are then taken into a cutscene where Sakura gets into her Koubu and performs an extremely powerful Ouka Hoshin (59%, devastating knockback)


Gimmick: At certain moments, Sakura can have her attacks do 3% more damage and have slightly more knockback for 5 seconds (getting hit causes her to lose this buff). Here is when she gets this:

-From a well-timed attack
-From a Perfect Shield
-When the crows starts cheering her name


Taunts
1: Sakura bows towards the camera.
2: Sakura performs her signature pre-battle pose.
1+2: Sakura brushes her kimono.


Winposes
1: Sakura performs her victory pose from her very first battle in the first game.
2: Sakura pushes back her hair as cherry blossom petals blow in the wind.
3: Sakura mimics her pose from the first frame of the first game’s opening.


Applause: Sakura claps quickly and happily.

Icon: One of the flowers on Sakura’s kimono.

Boxing Ring Title: Imperial Floral Hero

Star K.O.: “Oooogamiii…!”

Victory Music: https://youtu.be/Vr14LlDeLDo

Kirby Hat: Sakura’s hair and katana.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sakurai mentioned in the DQ11 livestream that Hero was meant to be in base game but was held back for financial reasons. But IIRC he specifically said Sugiyama was the roadblock.

https://www.jp.square-enix.com/presents/info/20190926002191.html

Well. I guess I live under a rock. I had no idea.

Makes you wonder what other characters were intended for base game, if any.

is now confirmed. is a definite yes.

was stated to be too late for the roster and didn't exist yet. So they couldn't be.

That just leaves . Could any of these three be intended for the base roster?

 

[GoodGrief741]

I said another character would appeal to more people than Geno, not that Geno would appeal to more people.

1. That's not what you said at all, but whatever.
2. "Another character would more people happy" is such a crap argument, I ain't even touching it.

Actually, it likely costs more. There is a reason that a vote recount is such a controversial cause in the USA- its a costly matter. Obviously thats a bigger scale, but at least those votes are tallied in a computer. Each smash vote had to be actually read in its native tongue. I dont think you understand the complexities of actually COUNTING the polling. And for... no reason to actually poll. Your joke about Source Gaming is not relevant in any way- they are a great team who translates occasional Smash items from one language into another. Not a team who counts (I'll guess tens of thousands) of votes in who knows how many languages.

Man has actually compared the counting of ballots in a national election, which includes many methods of voting, including physical, and that requires strict anti-fraud measures, to the Smash Ballot. Please, my friend, keep speaking.

Oh, by the way, you are aware that most character names are the same in all languages, right?

That just leaves . Could any of these three be intended for the base roster?

Joker's game didn't come out until after the project plan for Ultimate was finalized, and given how he's a third party and how Nintendo had nothing to do with Persona 5 (unlike, say DQXI), I doubt he was considered for base. For B-K, didn't we get confirmation that chats started in E3 2018? If so, then it's highly unlikely that they were considered for base, unless they were planning to pull a Sonic and delay the game.

Terry... I dunno. Terry's random like that.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Well. I guess I live under a rock. I had no idea.

Makes you wonder what other characters were intended for base game, if any.

is now confirmed. is a definite yes.

was stated to be too late for the roster and didn't exist yet. So they couldn't be.

That just leaves . Could any of these three be intended for the base roster?

That's news to me as well (though I'm taking it at face value, seeing as I dont speak Japanese and the video is only in Japanese). How curious.....
And a bit frustrating as well.

 

[SharkLord]

Anyways, what's all the "leaks" still standing at the moment, and how likely are they? I remember the doujin leak and the LoL leak, not sure what else. There's also CacoMallow, I guess, but if it's not dead now it's on life support.

With the two I do know, I could imagine that the team was working on Reimu/Min Min/LoL together, since the DLCs are worked on in groups of three. The COVID roadbump would necessitate a shift in focus to Min Min, but since she was already being worked on, it wasn't too hard to change gears. Plus, there's room for the guessing game to drum up interest in ARMS.

It should also be noted that the LoL leak only said we'd get an LoL character, a Knight PreMii w/Sealed Vessel, and a Trials of Mana Spirit event, but never said when. With the groups of three thing mentioned above, I think FP8 would be the killswitch. Doujin leak, on the other hand, is a bit iffy past FP7, but I can't say for sure because I don't remember the specifics.

 

[MooMew64]

Speaking of Miis though, can we talk about how they keep doing wrong by Mii Swordfighter?

Like, they give them nothing. All the cool stuff goes to Brawler and especially Gunner. While Gunner is my favorite, it's kind of crazy how neglected Sword is, so hopefully they'll fix that with FP7. I still stand by the fact they totally could've made Callie a sword fighter.

 

[N3ON]

https://www.jp.square-enix.com/presents/info/20190926002191.html

Can you point to either where in the video that's actually said, or a transcript/translation that claims as much?

Because as long as I've heard, that's only been speculation.

 

[SneakyLink]

Speaking of Miis though, can we talk about how they keep doing wrong by Mii Swordfighter?

Like, they give them nothing. All the cool stuff goes to Brawler and especially Gunner. While Gunner is my favorite, it's kind of crazy how neglected Sword is, so hopefully they'll fix that with FP7. I still stand by the fact they totally could've made Callie a sword fighter.

Swordfighter actually had a costume every single wave last pass.
Brawler skipped Byleth, while Gunner skipped Hero and Terry.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Speaking of Miis though, can we talk about how they keep doing wrong by Mii Swordfighter?

Like, they give them nothing. All the cool stuff goes to Brawler and especially Gunner. While Gunner is my favorite, it's kind of crazy how neglected Sword is, so hopefully they'll fix that with FP7. I still stand by the fact they totally could've made Callie a sword fighter.

I think they just throw out the Miis by theme. I dont think they actually consider who gets what.

 

[cmbsfm]

Speaking of Miis though, can we talk about how they keep doing wrong by Mii Swordfighter?

Like, they give them nothing. All the cool stuff goes to Brawler and especially Gunner. While Gunner is my favorite, it's kind of crazy how neglected Sword is, so hopefully they'll fix that with FP7. I still stand by the fact they totally could've made Callie a sword fighter.

Altair is pretty cool.

 

[PSIGuy]

Deluxe Mii Costumes work because they’re big name characters who people didn’t really think had a shot. No one ever expected even a Spirit of an Undertale character let alone a costume and music track. Likewise a Bethesda character was in no way a guarantee. The combination of big names and surprise factor made them wel received.
Adding a character with a lot of fan demand and close ties to Nintendo as a costume would be taken poorly in comparison I think.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I find it odd how some people are suggesting that because Min Min is the first character in this pass, and a Spirit upgrade, that there are guaranteed to be other Spirit upgrades in this pass, or even Assist upgrades. Let’s not forget that one of the primary reasons for Min Min’s inclusion is that the director of ARMS requested her specifically to be put in. By that logic, if he had requested for a character who wasn’t already a Spirit, we may have gotten them instead, and then this whole “The pass will be mostly upgrades/have more upgrades” conversation doesn’t exist.

I’m not saying that I would be against upgrades for characters, I’m just saying that let’s not take one data point and extrapolate it to guarantee 3-5 more similar cases. That’s a good way to let yourself down if it doesn’t end up happening. Even more so if it does happen 1-2 more times and the character you want to be upgraded isn’t.

 

[Slime Master]

Can you point to either where in the video that's actually said, or a transcript/translation that claims as much?

Because as long as I've heard, that's only been speculation.

Oh is it? I was operating from memory, so I might be wrong there. I don't have time right now to dig around for it; I'll do some tomorrow, feel free to poke me then for a followup (and that goes to anyone).

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

While I understand Geno fans would be disappointed with a Mii costume, doubly so because of his longstanding support, if you present any fanbase with the choice between Mii costume and fighter they're gonna go with fighter every time. There's probably more disagreement among fans over if it's better to have a Mii costume or nothing at all than that.

I think you can take into consideration potential backlash when assessing the likelihood of a Geno Mii costume, but it's only one factor of many.

 

[Shroob]

Anyways, what's all the "leaks" still standing at the moment, and how likely are they? I remember the doujin leak and the LoL leak, not sure what else. There's also CacoMallow, I guess, but if it's not dead now it's on life support.

With the two I do know, I could imagine that the team was working on Reimu/Min Min/LoL together, since the DLCs are worked on in groups of three. The COVID roadbump would necessitate a shift in focus to Min Min, but since she was already being worked on, it wasn't too hard to change gears. Plus, there's room for the guessing game to drum up interest in ARMS.

It should also be noted that the LoL leak only said we'd get an LoL character, a Knight PreMii w/Sealed Vessel, and a Trials of Mana Spirit event, but never said when. With the groups of three thing mentioned above, I think FP8 would be the killswitch. Doujin leak, on the other hand, is a bit iffy past FP7, but I can't say for sure because I don't remember the specifics.

How long will Cacomallow exist on life support.

The leak happened on like, November 3rd/4th.

Terry came out November 6th, nothing.

Byleth came out late January, nothing.

Min Min comes out next week, nothing.


Is this just going to be Schrodinger's leak where a small group of people are going to keep it alive for no reason other than them wanting it to be real? It's been almost 8 months and nothing to show of it.

 

[SharkLord]

How long will Cacomallow exist on life support.

The leak happened on like, November 3rd/4th.

Terry came out November 6th, nothing.

Byleth came out late January, nothing.

Min Min comes out next week, nothing.


Is this just going to be Schrodinger's leak where a small group of people are going to keep it alive for no reason other than them wanting it to be real? It's been almost 8 months and nothing to show of it.

From what I've heard, it would've been playtested with Terry, but not popping up after seven Miis with Byleth is fishy, and even fishier is that min Min came with a Bethesda Mii that isn't Cacodemon. If we get nothing for FP7, we're pulling the plug for good, assuming we haven't done that already.

 

[Shroob]

From what I've heard, it would've been playtested with Terry, but not popping up after seven Miis with Byleth is fishy, and even fishier is that min Min came with a Bethesda Mii that isn't Cacodemon. If we get nothing for FP7, we're pulling the plug for good, assuming we haven't done that already.

But why would it have been playtested with Terry is the thing. You'd figure the things playtested with Terry, would be the Mii costumes coming with him, not Mii Costumes that presumably would now drop in September, 10 months later.

 

[SharkLord]

But why would it have been playtested with Terry is the thing. You'd figure the things playtested with Terry, would be the Mii costumes coming with him, not Mii Costumes that presumably would now drop in September, 10 months later.

Yeah, you'd think so. There's also the possibility of COVID delaying them, but then again, the DLCs are developed in groups of three. If they were to be released, Byleth would be the optimal time to do so.

 

[RandomAce]

What you're saying is that Ayumi is the Geno of Japan, therefore using Geno fan logic, she's nearly a lock?

I'm so in favor of living in that delusion.

I mean, unlike Geno her series is getting remade for the Switch and she plays a big role in all three games and was the protagonist in the third (although it’s on the Stella so it’s still obscure).

 

[Faso115]

I haven't kept up with leaks, can anyone give me a TLDR about them?

If we are talking first parties, the only one i'm mostly confident it could happen is Rex. Had the same things against him than ARMS did and now seeing as Min Min is a thing, his chances have skyrocketed. Plus, having Sakurai praising the game is certainly a bonus...if the fabled Sakurai Bias powers were a thing....

Only thing goin against Rex is....i don't know Pyra's clothes?

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

Speaking of Miis though, can we talk about how they keep doing wrong by Mii Swordfighter?

Like, they give them nothing. All the cool stuff goes to Brawler and especially Gunner. While Gunner is my favorite, it's kind of crazy how neglected Sword is, so hopefully they'll fix that with FP7. I still stand by the fact they totally could've made Callie a sword fighter.

We did get Altair and Nakoruru, which are super cool, though I guess YMMV depending on how much you like those franchises. I hope we can get a Skyrim costume, although Vault Boy makes me wonder.

Ironically, despite not getting as many cool ones as Gunners or Brawlers, my Swordfighter list is still like twice the size of the other two... there were a lot of Swordfighter costumes in the base game.