Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SirBillyBob]

As always, here is my late take on first vs third parties, in meme format:

I like a lot of third-parties. Heck, two of my most wanted are third-parties. But as I grew up with Nintendo, I'm naturally more inclined to their properties. Of course, I'm still game to go down with almost any character they add.

 

[SharkLord]

To return to this, initial Chinese reactions seem to be... yeah, about as negative as the West and Japan. At least amongst the hardcore. Comes down to the fact that Honor of Kings already exists (Unite's compared to that often in Weibo comments) and Tencent is rather infamous in China for its old habits of copying stuff (a lot of comments surrounding that). That image irks a lot of Chinese hardcore fans for the reasons one would expect. (Seriously I saw one Weibo comment openly pining for Lets Go Johto.) There appear to be some positive comments there too, TBF... but yeah, ain't getting the hottest reception there.

Korean reactions (checks inven.kr)... not too much there yet, but "Couldn't you have made better graphics?" have already popped up. The trailer did release close to midnight there, but it ain't the hottest reception there either. Probably because LoL has such a massive grip still.



Chief

Dante

Kratos

Lara Croft

Crash

Doomguy / Dovachkin

Sol Badguy

Ouch, that's not good. The West is mad, Japan is mad, even China, the presumed target demographic, is mad...
This really doesn't look like it'll end well.

 

[RileyXY1]

Ouch, that's not good. The West is mad, Japan is mad, even China, the presumed target demographic, is mad...
This really doesn't look like it'll end well.

It might end up being a flop.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Ouch, that's not good. The West is mad, Japan is mad, even China, the presumed target demographic, is mad...
This really doesn't look like it'll end well.

imagine making a game based on a game asia loves but no one in asia, where that genre is popular, even like the game

 

[ZenythSmash]

: too pacifist

Honestly, it should ": no nonaggressive characters" if we read up why WFT and Villager were added.

This is unironically a very great argument for anybody wanting or expecting choices that aren't typical to, or too friendly for, assertion, like Frisk from Undertale, lol.

 

[SKX31]

Ouch, that's not good. The West is mad, Japan is mad, even China, the presumed target demographic, is mad...
This really doesn't look like it'll end well.

I'm getting real Sword / Shield pre-release vibes from Unite so far *flashbacks to Dexit*. The Dexit complaints, IMHO, missed that for casual players having all Pokemon in the game had become unfeasible long before that (nevermind catching them all, the original slogan). Wouldn't call the Reaper on this game yet, especially since it's likely to get an insane push. Again, most of its playerbase is likely to be casual / low end smartphone users at least to start off.

Still though, those are valid points of concern.

imagine making a game based on a game asia loves but no one in asia, where that genre is popular, even like the game

Now that you mention it - ByteDance (yes, the ones behind TikTok) have gotten into the games industry recently - results have been very mixed for them so far. Their next attempts could be in the same vein as you said (since ByteDance partnered with Naruto and One Piece games).

Maybe a court from Mario Tennis Aces could work for his stage? Snowfall Mountain seems like a strong candidate, with characters stampeding across the court at certain points. The Snow Ogre could even be a boss like the Yellow Devil.

For spirits... yeah, that's a tough one. Maybe lean further into Mario's spin-offs to fill that out? Although, the idea of just having Waluigi's spirit board full of his own spirits would be rather funny and fitting for such an envious character.

Since we're talking Waluigi, I'm partial to GCN Waluigi Stadium or MP3's Waluigi Island. Bonus points if the latter has its own platform of anarchy.

As for Spirits, yeah, lean further into spin offs. The Paper Mario / MP5 stars, MP3's guide and villain, Double Dash sprites etc. All Waluigi would be fun - but lets be real, the Crotch Chop needs to be the Fighter Spirit.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm getting real Sword / Shield pre-release vibes from Unite so far *flashbacks to Dexit*. The Dexit complaints, IMHO, missed that for casual players having all Pokemon in the game had become unfeasible long before that (nevermind catching them all, the original slogan). Wouldn't call the Reaper on this game yet, especially since it's likely to get an insane push. Again, most of its playerbase is likely to be casual / low end smartphone users at least to start off.

Still though, those are valid points of concern.



Now that you mention it - ByteDance (yes, the ones behind TikTok) have gotten into the games industry recently - results have been very mixed for them so far. Their next attempts could be in the same vein as you said (since ByteDance partnered with Naruto and One Piece games).



Since we're talking Waluigi, I'm partial to GCN Waluigi Stadium or MP3's Waluigi Island. Bonus points if the latter has its own platform of anarchy.

As for Spirits, yeah, lean further into spin offs. The Paper Mario / MP5 stars, MP3's guide and villain, Double Dash sprites etc. All Waluigi would be fun - but lets be real, the Crotch Chop needs to be the Fighter Spirit.

I still stand by the idea that Waluigi's a Piranha Plant-esque bonus fighter. One, he wouldn't have to worry about Spirits and whatnot. Two, if you don't want him you can just not buy him and pretend the DLC ended with the second pass. And three, he's the the thirteenth DLC character.

Unlucky thirteen for the unlucky purple man.

 

[SpectreJordan]

So what are the characters that you can't see anything less than playable characters if they get in?

Master Chief - Xbox mascot. Halo has been series that defined fps in new way. It's also considered Star Wars of gaming in some sense.

Crash - Huge universal demand. PS1 icon.

Sora - Another huge demand from both regions.

Putting these three as Mii costume would be huge insult, and following backlash isn't something Nintendo/Sakurai would want to risk. It would be also stupid move business decision wise. Why go for such big fish to turn it into poor dish?

Besides those reason, I don’t think MS, Activision or Disney would want anything besides the royal treatment for those characters.

I think Sakurai & Nintendo knows those characters are too big to turn into Mii costumes/spirits anyway. Crash & Sora are arguably the most requested characters now & Master Chief’s quickly been rising up in popularity.

So far the biggest names to get side lined are Sans, Heihachi & the Resident Evil crew. While those are big names & were requested semi-often (including myself), they didn’t have fanbases as loud or as vocal as Crash/Sora/Chief.

I feel like Doom Slayer, Dante & Steve are in the same boat too. But we’ll see what happens there.

 

[StrangeKitten]

*Watches the Pokemon Direct*

Spoiler: Honestly...

But I sure as hell am disappointed. For anyone wondering why the Direct got such a negative reception, we were told a week ago that there would be huge news in this Direct. What could it be? Sinnoh or Johto remakes (which would hopefully release holiday of next year, because I want Gamefreak to take more time developing games)? Maybe something else kinda big, like I dunno, a movie? Unlikely, but maybe the next Smash character is a gen 8 Pokemon? They hit us with a bombshell last week: New Pokemon Snap! A sequel fans have been waiting for for over two decades? What big announcement could be as good as that? After hyping it up, can you blame people for having high expectations?

...And then it's just a not-too-great looking MOBA. People got up at 6am for this?! Even lowering one's expectations, this just isn't it. I don't understand why they'd hype this up so much. If anything, why not save New Pokemon Snap for this week? Maybe they didn't have enough of that game ready to show off gameplay. Why then, not just show Pokemon Unite with the rest of everything that was shown last week? It's not like last week's Direct was too long or anything. They could have spent the same full 12 minutes on Unite in last week's Direct, and would probably not have gotten such a negative response had they done so.

To steer things back on-topic, I don't think this increases the chance of a League of Legends character getting into Smash. In my opinion, the chances of a League character getting in are on the unlikely side, but definitely not impossible. And probably more likely than a lot of other potential characters, quite frankly.

 

[Dinoman96]

Waluigi will never be playable in Ultimate

or any official Smash game

 

[EricTheGamerman]

As someone in the larger Golden Sun fandom, I can assure you it extends largely beyond the Smash Bros fandom. Of course, there happens to be crossover, like any Nintendo fandom and Smash, and that's who you see here.

I can't speak for Advance Wars or Rhythm Heaven or Chibi Robo (all of who I personally support for inclusion in Smash/series revival), but the function of Smash as cause or effect of series popularity has always been a weird one.

Humor me here, I know you all don't care about it like we do, just humor me.

It's been two years and two days since Camelot released Mario Tennis Aces. In their 30 year history, they've never gone this long without a game released when working with Nintendo. Motoi Sakuraba has no announced projects for 2020 after doing 3 soundtracks a year for decades now.

If Camelot is, by all confluences of fate, releasing a Golden Sun game on Switch and it's shadow dropped on Twitter tomorrow a la Paper Mario, how quickly would your tone change about speculation? Would you then all but lock one of those FP2 spots down for a Venus Adept of some sort?

I mean, yeah, I know some Golden Sun exists beyond Smash, but it's not exactly a series I find a ton of people to know and have mostly had to recommend it to other people myself over the years if anything. It's not a broadly popular series even among a lot of more Nintendo hardcore fans I've talked to the past several years. Again, anecdotal evidence, but it's a series without a release in 10 years and its been more like 16 since the series was in anyway culturally relevant on the GBA.

By all means, if a Golden Sun is announced, I'd say Golden Sun then has a significantly better chance to get in. But as it stands now, Golden Sun is in an incredibly rough spot and every passing year removes it further and further from the conversation. The Smash fandom is pretty well the last bastion for this franchise at this point unless Nintendo decides to do something else with it. The problem is, as I mentioned previously, Nintendo isn't exactly hurting for JRPGs on the Switch these days. Square Enix has come back in a pretty major way to Nintendo consoles with tons of quality releases, Nintendo has a brand new flagship JRPG series in Xenoblade that is performing incredibly well alongside Fire Emblem becoming a much more successful franchise, and a bunch of other companies are bringing their titles to Switch to. I think that's a rougher environment than the one that initially produced Golden Sun where it was the first successful Nintendo RPG outside of Mario based affairs, and part of the reason we may not see it return.

The issue with the whole "It's been two years since Camelot released Mario Tennis Aces" is that we're in the HD era. It takes longer to make games than it used to and a ton of development teams working under the Nintendo umbrella have struggled with that transition. Mario Tennis Aces was largely built off the frame work of Camelot's terrible Mario Tennis Ultra Smash beforehand as well, hence the quicker turnaround to Aces. And even then, Camelot supported Aces post launch with a lot of solid content for about a year, so it wasn't like they immediately dropped it to move on to the next project. Mario Tennis is the ONLY HD title Camelot has ever worked on, so a following project, even if it's another Mario sports title or just Mario Golf, is going to take time to be made. I don't think it's indicative of anything other than longer HD development times for projects TBH.

I'd love a new Golden Sun, and I'd love a playable Golden Sun character in Smash... but that's dependent on a long shot right now it feels like to me. Yes, my speculation would change with any new announcement in Golden Sun's favor specifically because that's what you should do in speculation and it would show Nintendo has more to gain out of pushing the brand than just making some fans happy. And it's Nintendo that has to be convinced here given that they're picking, and Nintendo tends to push for investment in their active franchises versus their dormant ones across the board. Hence, the lack of Golden Sun content right now makes me think it's an unlikely pick, and the resurgence of the series would change me tune. I still wouldn't say it's a lock with a new entry because I don't really think many things are ever confirmed "locks" in Smash, but I'd be much more positive about its chances.

 

[N3ON]

Even if GS4 were announced tomorrow it still wouldn't make Isaac a lock, because that's contingent on Nintendo caring enough about the game to reserve one of the remaining spots for Isaac. Or whatever GS character they want to go with.

And Nintendo caring about GS is unfortunately not something I'm ever going to give them the benefit of the doubt on.

But what it would do is keep the Isaac fans going for the better part of another decade, because that fanbase is only used to scraps anyway.

 

[Cosmic77]

It's been a struggle for Spring Man's supporters...

 

[StrangeKitten]

Yeah, Isaac is honestly very obscure outside of Smash speculation. I don't see him getting in without a new, successful entry into the Golden Sun franchise. There's no denying that a plethora of excellent JRPGs are available today: XC:DE, DQXI, FE:3H, Pokemon (okay, Pokemon's not quite excellent, but it's still there with two different stories to play through in Let's Go and SwSh), Octopath Traveler, Bravely Default 2... and that's just what Switch owners can play (BD2 hasn't released yet, but still). Playstation 4 has Persona 5 and FFVII remake, and Xbox One has Kingdom Hearts III. And these are just the ones I'm aware of off the top of my head.

It kinda hurts to admit, because I like Isaac. But I'm doubtful that they plan on upgrading him from his AT status at this point. Waluigi probably has him beat from a fan demand standpoint, so he'd probably be the one to get upgraded if we got any upgrades, which I think is unlikely to happen, let alone happen multiple times. It's not impossible, obviously. But unlikely, at least in my opinion.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

The "Cutting the roster" discussion is ice-cold at the moment, but I made this Smash roster if it were made up of characters exclusively from the CG segments of the Ultimate trailers. (For obvious reasons I didn't include newcomers that show up only in their newcomer trailers since that's kind of a conflict of interest) In conclusion, still a heckuva lotta characters.




And the stats:

Spoiler

Inkling:
(Probably more but they're hard to guess from silhouette)
Ridley:

Simon/Richter:

King K. Rool:

Isabelle: N/A
Incineroar/Ken:

Piranha Plant: No CG
Joker:

Hero:

Banjo-Kazooie:

Terry: N/A
Byleth: N/A
Min Min: N/A
World of Light:

"More Fighters" trailer.

Might do this for Smash 4, idk.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

so whats up with Pokemon? heard they announced a crappy chinese bootleg except it's official?

something related to the thread topic: Pokemon Snap Spirit Board? Featuring the legend himself, Todd Snap?

 

[Wunderwaft]

Waluigi will never be playable in Ultimate

or any official Smash game

Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right.

 

[KillerCage]

Nintendo when they see a Raymond up on eBay yet again
View attachment 276031

Just saying, Pokemon was essentially the Minecraft/Fortnite of it's day

Kids loved it, everyone else was pretty irritated with it. Look where it is now

I take it that you are a fan of RvB?

 

[StrangeKitten]

so whats up with Pokemon? heard they announced a crappy chinese bootleg except it's official?

something related to the thread topic: Pokemon Snap Spirit Board? Featuring the legend himself, Todd Snap?

That would honestly make a lot of sense. I'd be all for promotion of one of my favorite games/its sequel. Pikachu with an apple and Mew on Rainbow Cloud would also be musts!

 

[Droodle]

The thing that most harms Isaac and Geno in my eyes, is that they're relatively obscure outside of Smash speculation AND they don't really have any legacy to speak of. Even Banjo at least was a huge icon in the N64 days (and he even had the benefit of Microsoft and Nintendo working together in Smash), while SMRPG was big none of that really ties back to Geno, and on the other hand Golden Sun was also big back in the GBA days but never really as massive as the likes of Banjo. Both Geno and Isaac's games were definitely good, but honestly speaking their biggest legacy is their fan demand for Smash.

I say this as a fan of both characters (and I do want both of them to be playable), but realistically speaking:

Why pick Isaac when there are a ton of active 1st party that also have fan demand. Overall, someone like Bandana Dee or Rex and Pyra feel like they fill the roll much better. I can't really even see Isaac as on the table, unless they make a GS4 at which point while he does jump up, he still wouldn't be a lock.

Why pick Geno when there's a ton of active Square and Mario characters that are far bigger deals then Geno. The only hurdle holding back Waluigi is the AT fanrule, but I doubt that that's concrete, Waluigi just does what Geno does but far better. He's easier to get, he has a bigger legacy, he's more popular, he's still active/relevant. There's also Toad who is in a lot of ways the last of the main crew who isn't playable in Smash. There's Paper Mario who represents Mario RPGS better then Geno ever could. On the other hand, Square also has a ton of far more popular characters to offer as well, pretty much every major FF character, and 2B could fill the role. Heck in terms of other active series, there's always a Bravely Default character, or maybe even Neku if TWEWY 2 really does happen.

Both Geno and Isaac feel like hard base game character at most and while I do still think it's possible to get one of them; I still struggle to think of why Nintendo would choose them, with competition being as high as it is. Sure, fan demand definitely plays a role; but it isn't really the sole defining feature of why a character should get in as DLC, and I can't really think of any reasons why Isaac or Geno should be playable aside from fan demand.

That said, I will personally support them; but I would get it if they do not get in.

 

[7NATOR]

You know now thinking about it, I used to think if any AT got added in, Isaac would honestly be In the best spot because of how Requested he is (consistently at that), he would bring in new Franchise (that's Nintendo), and he would be the First Earth Bender on the roster

But Thinking about i don't think they've ever added a character from a Franchise that's not active, and Golden Sun, while it did do decent numbers, isn't that Iconic in Nintendo history. I think Shulk is a good comparison to Isaac, but XenoBlade Chronicles (the Reprinting, which was an effect of a large campaign) came before Shulk got in Smash. I think Nintendo was at least able to see the potential in successful franchise in Xenoblade before they put in the Plug on Shulk's inclusion on the Smash Roster.

Right now Golden Sun is inactive, and especially since this is DLC and not the Base roster, it's gonna be a hard sale to put in Isaac it would seem. I do think though the demand for Isaac might push Nintendo to take another look at Golden Sun (whether a Remaster or New game), and there have been rumors of a New game, but at this moment i think they have to see what a revival of the Franchise will do before they put Isaac on the roster. Hopefully if this rumor is true, The New Golden Sun does well. if it does and there's a FP3, Isaac is definitly gonna be like Shulk was, but with DLC

 

[N3ON]

Well when Golden Sun was at its most relevant, the competition was also at its stiffest. Back then there were characters like Dedede, Wario, Diddy, Olimar, etc. in play, so they edged Isaac out. Had there been less competition, or had GS1&2 arrived prior to Smash 4 or Ultimate instead (and received the same reception), I'd imagine Isaac would be in.

 

[SKX31]

I mean, yeah, I know some Golden Sun exists beyond Smash, but it's not exactly a series I find a ton of people to know and have mostly had to recommend it to other people myself over the years if anything. It's not a broadly popular series even among a lot of more Nintendo hardcore fans I've talked to the past several years. Again, anecdotal evidence, but it's a series without a release in 10 years and its been more like 16 since the series was in anyway culturally relevant on the GBA.

By all means, if a Golden Sun is announced, I'd say Golden Sun then has a significantly better chance to get in. But as it stands now, Golden Sun is in an incredibly rough spot and every passing year removes it further and further from the conversation. The Smash fandom is pretty well the last bastion for this franchise at this point unless Nintendo decides to do something else with it. The problem is, as I mentioned previously, Nintendo isn't exactly hurting for JRPGs on the Switch these days. Square Enix has come back in a pretty major way to Nintendo consoles with tons of quality releases, Nintendo has a brand new flagship JRPG series in Xenoblade that is performing incredibly well alongside Fire Emblem becoming a much more successful franchise, and a bunch of other companies are bringing their titles to Switch to. I think that's a rougher environment than the one that initially produced Golden Sun where it was the first successful Nintendo RPG outside of Mario based affairs, and part of the reason we may not see it return.

The issue with the whole "It's been two years since Camelot released Mario Tennis Aces" is that we're in the HD era. It takes longer to make games than it used to and a ton of development teams working under the Nintendo umbrella have struggled with that transition. Mario Tennis Aces was largely built off the frame work of Camelot's terrible Mario Tennis Ultra Smash beforehand as well, hence the quicker turnaround to Aces. And even then, Camelot supported Aces post launch with a lot of solid content for about a year, so it wasn't like they immediately dropped it to move on to the next project. Mario Tennis is the ONLY HD title Camelot has ever worked on, so a following project, even if it's another Mario sports title or just Mario Golf, is going to take time to be made. I don't think it's indicative of anything other than longer HD development times for projects TBH.

I'd love a new Golden Sun, and I'd love a playable Golden Sun character in Smash... but that's dependent on a long shot right now it feels like to me. Yes, my speculation would change with any new announcement in Golden Sun's favor specifically because that's what you should do in speculation and it would show Nintendo has more to gain out of pushing the brand than just making some fans happy. And it's Nintendo that has to be convinced here given that they're picking, and Nintendo tends to push for investment in their active franchises versus their dormant ones across the board. Hence, the lack of Golden Sun content right now makes me think it's an unlikely pick, and the resurgence of the series would change me tune. I still wouldn't say it's a lock with a new entry because I don't really think many things are ever confirmed "locks" in Smash, but I'd be much more positive about its chances.

Even if GS4 were announced tomorrow it still wouldn't make Isaac a lock, because that's contingent on Nintendo caring enough about the game to reserve one of the remaining spots for Isaac. Or whatever GS character they want to go with.

And Nintendo caring about GS is unfortunately not something I'm ever going to give them the benefit of the doubt on.

But what it would do is keep the Isaac fans going for the better part of another decade, because that fanbase is only used to scraps anyway.

I was wondering about how feasible it would be to give smaller, inactive franchises like Golden Sun something of a touch-up treatment (a la the Mario & Luigi remakes)... but then again, Alpha Dream went bankrupt citing high dev costs as one reason. That's already indicative of what you said Eric.

But to continue on this track purely for argument's sake (and as purely hypotheoretical), I'd argue that it would be wise of Nintendo to at least look into something of a smaller scale test revival. A collection could do decently, albeit it too is a risky move considering its relatively small stature. Yes, Square Enix has come back in a major way. but connections with third parties can come and go. Nintendo also is continueing their experimentation push with Origami King - maybe there's space for a more magic / puzzle oriented RPG series here? I'll admit that this is not exactly a strong argument (far from), but maybe there could be some room.

I won't argue that it's going to be extremely difficult to bring back smaller IPs like Golden Sun. That said, Miyamoto in particular espouses the idea of taking a mechanic first, then pairing a franchise to it. Thus, hypotheoretically I could see Golden Sun as a VR RPG (especially given Nintendo's wading into the VR waters currently) buuuut again, VR games ain't cheap.

Then again, I'm writing this response partly to ask you two in particular: Hypotheoretically, what would be the most feasible way to bring smaller franchises like Golden Sun back?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I was wondering about how feasible it would be to give smaller, inactive franchises like Golden Sun something of a touch-up treatment (a la the Mario & Luigi remakes)... but then again, Alpha Dream went bankrupt citing high dev costs as one reason. That's already indicative of what you said Eric.

But to continue on this track purely for argument's sake (and as purely hypotheoretical), I'd argue that it would be wise of Nintendo to at least look into something of a smaller scale test revival. A collection could do decently, albeit it too is a risky move considering its relatively small stature. Yes, Square Enix has come back in a major way. but connections with third parties can come and go. Nintendo also is continueing their experimentation push with Origami King - maybe there's space for a more magic / puzzle oriented RPG series here? I'll admit that this is not exactly a strong argument (far from).

I won't argue that it's going to be extremely difficult to bring back smaller IPs like Golden Sun. That said, Miyamoto in particular espouses the idea of taking a mechanic first, then pairing a franchise to it. Thus, hypotheoretically I could see Golden Sun as a VR RPG (especially given Nintendo's wading into the VR waters currently) buuuut again, VR games ain't cheap.

Then again, I'm writing this response partly to ask you two in particular: Hypotheoretically, what would be the most feasible way to bring smaller franchises like Golden Sun back?

Candy Crush clone with the dijins

 

[N3ON]

If GS returns, I don't think it's going to stray much from how it used to operate. Other than visually, perhaps. That's not to say it wouldn't be free of new mechanics, just that I doubt it'd try to incorporate new genres or weird control schemes within in. I think if it does return, it will be due to Nintendo seeing the evidence that the Switch has provided a hospitable ecosystem for RPGs, even pretty traditional RPGs, such as Octopath Traveler, to find success. I mean that game did sell over 2 million copies.

That's not to say GS would necessarily find success, just that Nintendo might be willing to gamble on it again.

Edit: To directly answer the question though, I think the most feasible way to bring GS back is by just remaking the first two games as a single title (as was originally intentioned). That's a low cost plausible trial to see if the series still resonates with people.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Then again, I'm writing this response partly to ask you two in particular: Hypotheoretically, what would be the most feasible way to bring smaller franchises like Golden Sun back?

It wasn't directed at me, but imo... a remaster of the first game for each of these franchises can't hurt. I mean, Nintendo sometimes remasters/remakes things to a fault. If they're unsure whether or not to make a new entry, a remake of the first GS could test the waters - and I doubt it would be anywhere near as resource-demanding as something like Xenoblade.

 

[MasterDoom1666]

I may be alone in this, but I'd prefer for Waluigi to be a smash character after he gets an appearance that's not just a spin-off. I don't want Mr. Spinoff Man, I'd rather have Waluigi. I also wouldn't want him to have a 100% Smash original moveset like Captain Falcon does.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It wasn't directed at me, but imo... a remaster of the first game for each of these franchises can't hurt. I mean, Nintendo sometimes remasters/remakes things to a fault. If they're unsure whether or not to make a new entry, a remake of the first GS could test the waters - and I doubt it would be anywhere near as resource-demanding as something like Xenoblade.

Eh, Xenoblade DE flatout reuses a ****ton of models and stuff from the original which saves a lot of time, a GS remake would need everything made from the ground up

 

[Aetheri]

so whats up with Pokemon? heard they announced a crappy chinese bootleg except it's official?

something related to the thread topic: Pokemon Snap Spirit Board? Featuring the legend himself, Todd Snap?

Yeah Pokemon DOTA essentially..."free to start" very likely means microtransactions in game, when I went to watch the Pokemon Presents it already had over 100K dislikes and it was up for only an hour...Ouch!

Despite the Pokemon Company's intentions with the game, it honestly makes a lot of sense to have a game like this if you really think about it. Despite the poor reception they're going to make a lot of money off of this.

I just don't know why they needed a separate announcement for this, when they could've just shown it last week. Probably wouldn't have gotten as much hate since everyone's expecting Let's Go Johto or Sinnoh.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Eh, Xenoblade DE flatout reuses a ****ton of models and stuff from the original which saves a lot of time, a GS remake would need everything made from the ground up

At the same time, we aren't looking at locations the size of Xenoblade, nor the same amount of story time, game systems and sidequests.

Heck - if Nintendo thinks it's easier for the team, they don't even have to switch to 3D assets at all. There are several ways to make remasters look good in this day and age.

 

[Dinoman96]

I may be alone in this, but I'd prefer for Waluigi to be a smash character after he gets an appearance that's not just a spin-off. I don't want Mr. Spinoff Man, I'd rather have Waluigi. I also wouldn't want him to have a 100% Smash original moveset like Captain Falcon does.

I agree with you on this. Waluigi may be popular, but to me he really doesn't amount to much outside of just being "that guy you play as in Mario spinoffs". I need more than that. I'd feel differently if Nintendo gave him his own game or something where they fleshed out and established his abilities. But as it currently stands...nah.

Daisy is probably the closest thing we have to a character like Waluigi, but even then, she A.) has appeared in what Nintendo considers mainline Mario platformers and B.) only was included Smash because she could function as effectively a glorifed alternate costume of Peach that happens to exist in her own character slot. Waluigi can't really be that.

 

[Cosmic77]

Hmm...

Might be a new record for uploading a DLC character's icon.

Sure blows Hero's alts out of the water, who took almost nine months. Female Byleth is still waiting.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

And this is the part where I’d ask someone to gift me Premium

IF IT WAS STILL POSSIBLE!

 

[ZelDan]

If GS returns, I don't think it's going to stray much from how it used to operate. Other than visually, perhaps. That's not to say it wouldn't be free of new mechanics, just that I doubt it'd try to incorporate new genres or weird control schemes within in. I think if it does return, it will be due to Nintendo seeing the evidence that the Switch has provided a hospitable ecosystem for RPGs, even pretty traditional RPGs, such as Octopath Traveler, to find success. I mean that game did sell over 2 million copies.

That's not to say GS would necessarily find success, just that Nintendo might be willing to gamble on it again.

Edit: To directly answer the question though, I think the most feasible way to bring GS back is by just remaking the first two games as a single title (as was originally intentioned). That's a low cost plausible trial to see if the series still resonates with people.

Yeah remakes are the best bet I think, and not a "Golden Sun 4."

Assuming a GS4 continued the story of Dark Dawn, that would be kind of an awkward considering that DD released a whole decade ago. That and DD isn't exactly that popular amongst the GS fanbase (not exactly that hated either, but many feel it was a step down from the GBA titles). For these reasons combined I feel a GS4/DD continuation would be kinda lukewarm TBH, and I, and I'm guessing many GS fans, probably stopped caring about DD's cliffhanger years ago (maybe I'm wrong on this though and just speaking for myself here).

That, and a GS4/DD continuation might be a hard sell for people who haven't experienced the series yet. a sequel would probably make them think "UGH geez if I want to check this out I might have to play 3 other long-ish RPGs, RPGs that aren't exactly easy to find unless I own a Wii U, one of Nintendo's bigger system flops"

A remake, on the other hand would excite GS veterans slot since we generally loved both of the GBA games and seeing those games get touched up and perhaps expanded on would be pretty exciting, and it would likely be a much easier sell to people looking to get into GS too.

 

[Inawordyes]

If you were Sakurai, and your mission was to make FP2 be a pass that adds popular and/or longstanding fighter requests amongst the fanbase, and the pass is an even 3-3 split, what two other first-party characters do you include alongside Min Min that has a similar if not broader mass appeal? Only stipulation is no characters that are already ATs (so no obvious Waluigi/Isaac picks), but anybody else, spirit or not, is fair game.

I'd go myself with Elma/Bandana Dee, as both characters are very popular amongst the general fanbase and are at this point notable admissions from the roster. Impa and Dixie would be next in line if not for their easy echo potential, and I love Toad but realistically could see those two before him given PP already being a Mario DLC character

 

[SharkLord]

I was wondering about how feasible it would be to give smaller, inactive franchises like Golden Sun something of a touch-up treatment (a la the Mario & Luigi remakes)... but then again, Alpha Dream went bankrupt citing high dev costs as one reason. That's already indicative of what you said Eric.

But to continue on this track purely for argument's sake (and as purely hypotheoretical), I'd argue that it would be wise of Nintendo to at least look into something of a smaller scale test revival. A collection could do decently, albeit it too is a risky move considering its relatively small stature. Yes, Square Enix has come back in a major way. but connections with third parties can come and go. Nintendo also is continueing their experimentation push with Origami King - maybe there's space for a more magic / puzzle oriented RPG series here? I'll admit that this is not exactly a strong argument (far from), but maybe there could be some room.

I won't argue that it's going to be extremely difficult to bring back smaller IPs like Golden Sun. That said, Miyamoto in particular espouses the idea of taking a mechanic first, then pairing a franchise to it. Thus, hypotheoretically I could see Golden Sun as a VR RPG (especially given Nintendo's wading into the VR waters currently) buuuut again, VR games ain't cheap.

Then again, I'm writing this response partly to ask you two in particular: Hypotheoretically, what would be the most feasible way to bring smaller franchises like Golden Sun back?

Remaster the first two games in one, like was originally intended. Give it a bright art style that resembles the official art, and don't change too much unless it's a part that needs a touch-up.

 

[Perkilator]

Hmm...

View attachment 276131

Might be a new record for uploading a DLC character's icon.

Sure blows Hero's alts out of the water, who took almost nine months. Female Byleth is still waiting.

FINALLY!!

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Waluigi will never be playable in Ultimate

or any official Smash game

That’s just what someone who knows Waluigi is coming to Smash Ultimate would say.

Wah wins

 

[Animegamingnerd]

It wasn't directed at me, but imo... a remaster of the first game for each of these franchises can't hurt. I mean, Nintendo sometimes remasters/remakes things to a fault. If they're unsure whether or not to make a new entry, a remake of the first GS could test the waters - and I doubt it would be anywhere near as resource-demanding as something like Xenoblade.

A Golden Sun remake would require a much bigger budget, more resources, and man power then Xenoblade DE. Xenoblade DE still reused quite a number of assets from the original game. A remake of Golden Sun would require it to be built from scratch especially in the likely scenario of it being a 3D game instead of the 2D game it originally was.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah Pokemon DOTA essentially..."free to start" very likely means microtransactions in game, when I went to watch the Pokemon Presents it already had over 100K dislikes and it was up for only an hour...Ouch!

Despite the Pokemon Company's intentions with the game, it honestly makes a lot of sense to have a game like this if you really think about it. Despite the poor reception they're going to make a lot of money off of this.

I just don't know why they needed a separate announcement for this, when they could've just shown it last week. Probably wouldn't have gotten as much hate since everyone's expecting Let's Go Johto or Sinnoh.

I'm sure that there will be TONS of people who dislike this trailer in the end, but when this releases, it'll still make tons of money. The microtransactions will likely be for new pokemon and before long, the game will have its own Whales and Krakens to reassure the company that it was a good idea to let Tencent handle this.

At this point, its better for people who don't like it to just shrug & dismiss it, then wait for the next thing because it sounds like its mostly Tencent's project; Pokemon themselves have plenty of other things coming including the new Snap which people have been asking for since the original 64 game came out Once Upon a Time Ago.