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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Cosmic77

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Golden Sun is a risky venture. People always act like it's such a mystery why Nintendo doesn't bring back certain series when there's obviously fan demand, but it's pretty easy to see.

Even if every person online who promised to buy a Golden Sun remake on day 1 came through, that's still not enough for a successful game. You needs to get casuals intrested too, and that's the hard part. How do you make Golden Sun stand out among other RPGs?
 

N3ON

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Yeah remakes are the best bet I think, and not a "Golden Sun 4."

Assuming a GS4 continued the story of Dark Dawn, that would be kind of an awkward considering that DD released a whole decade ago. That and DD isn't exactly that popular amongst the GS fanbase (not exactly that hated either, but many feel it was a step down from the GBA titles). For these reasons combined I feel a GS4/DD continuation would be kinda lukewarm TBH, and I, and I'm guessing many GS fans, probably stopped caring about DD's cliffhanger years ago (maybe I'm wrong on this though and just speaking for myself here).

That, and a GS4/DD continuation might be a hard sell for people who haven't experienced the series yet. a sequel would probably make them think "UGH geez if I want to check this out I might have to play 3 other long-ish RPGs, RPGs that aren't exactly easy to find unless I own a Wii U, one of Nintendo's bigger system flops"

A remake, on the other hand would excite GS veterans slot since we generally loved both of the GBA games and seeing those games get touched up and perhaps expanded on would be pretty exciting, and it would likely be a much easier sell to people looking to get into GS too.
Well, if they wanted to make a new GS, there was, what? Thirty years in between GS2 and 3? So it could just take place then and feature the original cast, who fans have a greater affinity for.

Might make more sense than trying to attract consumers by throwing them into the second-part of a ten-year-old story that the fewest number of people played anyway. Though it would be funny if they just started a completely new story instead of finishing their cliffhanger.

That’s just what someone who knows Waluigi is coming to Smash Ultimate would say.

Wah wins
WAH would always win if everyone else would stop cheating.
 

StrangeKitten

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If you were Sakurai, and your mission was to make FP2 be a pass that adds popular and/or longstanding fighter requests amongst the fanbase, and the pass is an even 3-3 split, what two other first-party characters do you include alongside Min Min that has a similar if not broader mass appeal? Only stipulation is no characters that are already ATs (so no obvious Waluigi/Isaac picks), but anybody else, spirit or not, is fair game.

I'd go myself with Elma/Bandana Dee, as both characters are very popular amongst the general fanbase and are at this point notable admissions from the roster. Impa and Dixie would be next in line if not for their easy echo potential, and I love Toad but realistically could see those two before him given PP already being a Mario DLC character
I'd add Rex and Pyra, and Geno. Just kinda feels right to put Rex and Pyra in since we got a rep from the other too-closely-released-to-Ultimate game, and Geno because he's got the biggest fan appeal, imo. ...Oh yeah, Geno's technically third party. That's easy to forget since he feels like first party. If you're a stickler for first party, I'd add Waluigi instead of Geno.
 

Cutie Gwen

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At the same time, we aren't looking at locations the size of Xenoblade, nor the same amount of story time, game systems and sidequests.

Heck - if Nintendo thinks it's easier for the team, they don't even have to switch to 3D assets at all. There are several ways to make remasters look good in this day and age.
Again though, XBDE reused a ****ton of assets which minimized work, the areas, models, VA work, etc was reused. Again, Golden Sun would need to be remade entirely from the ground up. Not to mention models are easier to work with than sprites
 

ZelDan

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Well, if they wanted to make a new GS, there was, what? Thirty years in between GS2 and 3? So it could just take place then and feature the original cast, who fans have a greater affinity for.

Might make more sense than trying to attract consumers by throwing them into the second-part of a ten-year-old story that the fewest number of people played anyway. Though it would be funny if they just started a completely new story instead of finishing their cliffhanger.


WAH would always win if everyone else would stop cheating.
True, they could do a game that takes place between TLA and DD; That could be cool (if that's what you were talking about anyways).

Maybe we could even see a mix of his original and Dark Dawn designs. You know, the whole idea of seeing a younger Isaac in the clothing his adult self wears.
 
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Will

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Again though, XBDE reused a ****ton of assets which minimized work, the areas, models, VA work, etc was reused. Again, Golden Sun would need to be remade entirely from the ground up. Not to mention models are easier to work with than sprites
I wish we got a Mechonis stage. They spoiled Fiora, might as go the full way, dump me in the Central Factory or do a Skyloft/Delfino and take me on a crash course through the Mechonis Core as a central location.
 

3BitSaurus

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A Golden Sun remake would require a much bigger budget, more resources, and man power then Xenoblade DE. Xenoblade DE still reused quite a number of assets from the original game. A remake of Golden Sun would require it to be built from scratch especially in the likely scenario of it being a 3D game instead of the 2D game it originally was.
Again - not necessarily. Keep in mind that even if they can't reuse assets, the tools used to make a game like Golden Sun also changed a lot since the GBA days. Meaning they probably wouldn't need more manpower than they did to make the original - unless of course we're talking about them going full ham on this and making all-new areas, gameplay systems and full 3D graphics.

People tend to focus on 3D models and scenery, but I really doubt transplanting Xenoblade's systems like Gem Crafting, Affinity, Skill Trees and others, which have a lot of branching and interactions with one another - was easy. Not to mention having an expansion to the story in Future Connected.

Basically, GS would need assets made from scratch, yes, but my point is that there would be less assets to make compared to a game the size of Xenoblade DE.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Golden Sun is a risky venture. People always act like it's such a mystery why Nintendo doesn't bring back certain series when there's obviously fan demand, but it's pretty easy to see.

Even if every person online who promised to buy a Golden Sun remake on day 1 came through, that's still not enough for a successful game. You needs to get casuals intrested too, and that's the hard part. How do you make Golden Sun stand out among other RPGs?
I mean we don’t really need a remake straight out a rerelease of the trilogy would be good. Plus the fan demand thing you were talking about is what got Xenoblade over to NA and what got EarthBound back on the eShop and both of those did exceptional. Xenoblade continues to be exceptional.

JRPGs sell on Switch. They just do. Xenoblade, Octopath, the Final Fantasy games, Dragon Quest, Three Houses. These game’s had the backing of Nintendo and a decent advertising campaign and then hey went on to be successes. Merge that with the already established fan base that wants Golden Sun back and it just makes sense. Even a remake or Golden Sun 4 could easily sell with Nintendo’s backing. It just needs to be done.

There’s no sure fire way to determine a games outcome yeah but fan demand is absolutely one of the most conclusive ones. If they’re asking for it they must want it. And if they want it and we give it to ‘em they’re probably going to buy. It’s a much better odds than a 50/50 new property so, yeah, it’s as close as they can get to risk free without it being called Mario.
 

Will

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People talking about dormant first parties making me remember how Nintendo killed Chibi-Robo in cold blood. :drsad:
 

SKX31

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True, they could do a game that takes place between TLA and DD; That could be cool (if that's what you were talking about anyways).

Maybe we could even see a mix of his original and Dark Dawn designs. You know, the whole idea of seeing a younger Isaac in the clothing his adult self wears.
There could be some interesting stories about Isaac and the other characters growing personally from the continent shifting and the further effects alchemy has on the Golden Sun world. So yeah, I'm all for that idea should Golden Sun theoretically get a revival.

At this point, its better for people who don't like it to just shrug & dismiss it, then wait for the next thing because it sounds like its mostly Tencent's project; Pokemon themselves have plenty of other things coming including the new Snap which people have been asking for since the original 64 game came out Once Upon a Time Ago.
(Emphasis mine)

It's Tencent's game, yes. That's been confirmed by Tencent staffing a LA studio to help deal with the game as well as their headquarters in Shenzhen. This was something Zhuge first confirmed last July - when TPC and Tencent first announced the partnership. As for the microtransaction thing, it's also in Arena of Valor / Honor of Kings, so I fully expect Unite to follow AoV's model.

And yeah, I do agree that those not into the game should just shrug and dismiss it really. Even if Unite matches are only 10-15 minutes long they can also become complicated affairs (because of how the genre works) and while it's evidently the big project it's also not going to be a majority-Switch game. Most of those who try out Unite are probably going to be mobile users who hear about it from the inevitable ad campaign (and Tencent's likely to splurge on it - they've tried with AoV).
 

Will

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They set a poor fellow on fire and put him on display, for all of us to watch in horror.
*takes chibi-robo hostage*
*puts a sandbox character in a generic platformer*
"If this game doesn't sell well, we're cutting off the series."

like goddamn if pikmin didn't have miyamoto bias it'd be dead too
 

N3ON

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Tbf Nintendo did kill Chibi-Robo but only after giving it more chances than most series that never actually sold well could hope for...

But why Chibi-Robo has never at least been an AT I'm sure I don't know.
 

KingofPhantoms

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*takes chibi-robo hostage*
*puts a sandbox character in a generic platformer*
"If this game doesn't sell well, we're cutting off the series."

like goddamn if pikmin didn't have miyamoto bias it'd be dead too
Pikmin's nearly dead at this point. At least for now.

I'm thankful Olimar got into Smash as early as Brawl.
 

SirBillyBob

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It is interesting that Sakurai threw a bone for Chibi-Robo by giving it both a mii costume and an Ace spirit. And I don't recall many requests for them either.
 

Animegamingnerd

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Again - not necessarily. Keep in mind that even if they can't reuse assets, the tools used to make a game like Golden Sun also changed a lot since the GBA days. Meaning they probably wouldn't need more manpower than they did to make the original - unless of course we're talking about them going full ham on this and making all-new areas, gameplay systems and full 3D graphics.

People tend to focus on 3D models and scenery, but I really doubt transplanting Xenoblade's systems like Gem Crafting, Affinity, Skill Trees and others, which have a lot of branching and interactions with one another - was easy. Not to mention having an expansion to the story in Future Connected.

Basically, GS would need assets made from scratch, yes, but my point is that there would be less assets to make compared to a game the size of Xenoblade DE.
Except Xenoblade DE was made on a relatively low budget according to Monolithsoft's President, it still uses the same basic gameplay mechanics and maps of the original, only really the character models, ui, and most of the soundtrack got remade. Hell the area where Future Connected takes place in was an area that was suppose to be in the original game, but was cut and left on the disc.

Man power is still a very big problem since according to wikipedia Camelot only has 44 employees which is no where near enough to make an modern JRPG.
 

Will

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Tbf Nintendo did kill Chibi-Robo but only after giving it more chances than most series that never actually sold well could hope for...

But why Chibi-Robo has never at least been an AT I'm sure I don't know.
You mean Let's Go Photo? It was a neat concept using the camera, but it wasn't what made Chibi-Robo games fun at all. The last game where it was actually doing that was a DS walmart exclusive.

1593032501637.png


I'm here for Nintendo-brand Toy Story, not whatever they were thinking was meant to work for him. :drsad: At least he's in Smash Flash.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Something I was thinking about with DLC selections...I think it's possible Nintendo may be trying to put a focus on Switch titles. Call it a hunch.

Three Houses? Major Switch title, and success. That's now a part of their biggest crossover game.

ARMS? Major early Switch title, success. Now a part of their crossover game.

We only have two examples for Ultimate DLC, so at this point it's nothing more than a coincidence. However, these two games join Splatoon, Mario Odyssey, and Breath of the Wild in representing current generation titles that have truly carried the Switch.

This begs the question- which other titles could be looked at similarly? For me at least, the two biggest ones are Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and Pokemon Sword and Shield. Those are two games from series that have performed well on Switch and characterize part of what makes the Switch library of 1st party titles what it is.

There's also Donkey Kong Country TF, and some other re-released titles but I'm mainly looking at it through the lens of, "Nintendo Switch".

Also to keep in mind, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Sword & Shield, while already having content in Ultimate, can bring in a new stage that reflects their unique world/region, as well as music that isn't already in the game. Considering ARMS reused base game Spirits, it's not out of the question that those two games could do something similar.

I know I'm not known as the "1st party stan" around these parts, but I think this may be something to keep in mind going forward. If anything, I'll say this: I think XC2 and Pokemon Sw/Sh should be considered quite in contention for first party spots should they be planned for this pass. The only thing that throws me off with Pokemon Sword and Shield is a presentation in which Sakurai says, "What is Pokemon?"

That will never not be weird...and hilarious to imagine.
 

Will

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Let’s combine dormant first parties and putting Waluigi in a major game: Wario Land: Wario and Waluigi’s Quest for more coins!
I remember before M&L: Dream Team came out, this one dude made a really neat concept for M&L4 like how M&L3 (Bowser's Inside Story) had three controllable characters.

1593032904337.png

Speaking of, RIP AlphaDream, milked until the tap was spitting out dust.
 

3BitSaurus

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Except Xenoblade DE was made on a relatively low budget according to Monolithsoft's President, it still uses the same basic gameplay mechanics and maps of the original, only really the character models, ui, and most of the soundtrack got remade. Hell the area where Future Connected takes place in was an area that was suppose to be in the original game, but was cut and left on the disc.

Man power is still a very big problem since according to wikipedia Camelot only has 44 employees which is no where near enough to make an modern JRPG.
The keyword here seems to be "relatively". Monolith has more manpower and had the resources, so they planned according to what they had.

I mean, if we say that you'd need a team of around 248 or more people (the total number of Monolith employees, according to a quick search) to make a modern RPG, neither should Game Freak's 143, by that metric. Here's the thing: you could theoretically make a pipeline that requires a ****ton of new content besides what the game already had, but... there's no real reason to.

If Camelot has less people, they'd need to adjust their pipeline to work with what they have. I'm not saying it's going to be the best remake ever, I'm saying it's a feasible one.
 
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Cosmic77

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I mean we don’t really need a remake straight out a rerelease of the trilogy would be good. Plus the fan demand thing you were talking about is what got Xenoblade over to NA and what got EarthBound back on the eShop and both of those did exceptional. Xenoblade continues to be exceptional.

JRPGs sell on Switch. They just do. Xenoblade, Octopath, the Final Fantasy games, Dragon Quest, Three Houses. These game’s had the backing of Nintendo and a decent advertising campaign and then hey went on to be successes. Merge that with the already established fan base that wants Golden Sun back and it just makes sense. Even a remake or Golden Sun 4 could easily sell with Nintendo’s backing. It just needs to be done.

There’s no sure fire way to determine a games outcome yeah but fan demand is absolutely one of the most conclusive ones. If they’re asking for it they must want it. And if they want it and we give it to ‘em they’re probably going to buy. It’s a much better odds than a 50/50 new property so, yeah, it’s as close as they can get to risk free without it being called Mario.
Well, that's the thing. I don't think the demand from the GS fanbase alone is enough. Most of the games you mentioned have been well established franchises that have gradually picked up more and more fans over the years on top of the old ones. It's been a full decade since the last GS game; they desperately need to attract new fans in order for this to really take off.

Golden Sun has a following; I'm not questioning that. However, is that following large enough to safely ensure that a new game would sell enough for them to continue the series? I'm doubtful. Not all revived franchises have had happy endings, and even some of Nintendo's most valued IPs have struggled through the course of history because they have absolutely no idea how to ensure a successful game (F-Zero, Star Fox, Metroid, etc.). If Camelot or whoever they entrust to make a new Golden Sun game can't pull an Awakening and create something that really sticks out to people, it'll probably return to its dormant state as Nintendo moves back to funding safer, more reliable things, like Mario sports spin-offs.

I understand why Golden Sun still hasn't gotten a game yet, and it's probably best that they leave it alone until they feel confident that they have an idea that will sell.
 
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clearandsweet

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Honestly, everything that was brought up over the last page is pretty dang relevant, and I appreciate the discussion.


Golden Sun is a risky venture. People always act like it's such a mystery why Nintendo doesn't bring back certain series when there's obviously fan demand, but it's pretty easy to see.

Even if every person online who promised to buy a Golden Sun remake on day 1 came through, that's still not enough for a successful game. You needs to get casuals intrested too, and that's the hard part. How do you make Golden Sun stand out among other RPGs?
Candy Crush clone with the dijins
This is a targeted harassment on my fragile mental health as a Golden Sun fan.

Seriously though, here's how you revive a dead series:
  1. Switch remake of The Broken Seal and The Lost Age in one, Octopath Traveler-level in scope.
  2. Crossovers. Golden Sun banner in FEH/Dragalia Lost, DLC character/stages in Smash around the time the game comes out. Heck, you could even do the "buy the switch game, free code for the Smash/mobile game character" (although you probably wouldn't need to).
  3. Engage the community, content creators, influencers and fan artists on Twitter/Youtube. NOA has been pretty darn good with this over the past few years. McDareth is a big GS stan, Billybo and others are in this very community. The Completionist just did an episode about TBS a minute ago. You don't really have to do much to make people like Nairo and Zero play a new remaster on stream. Hell, you just show the right stuff and I swear about a billion GS fans will come out of the woodwork to retweet, reddit post, make breakdown videos and explode for a revival. From the inside, I know this would happen in a way that it probably wouldn't for Advance Wars or Chibi Robo (sadly).
  4. Candy Crush clone with djinn.

Yeah remakes are the best bet I think, and not a "Golden Sun 4."
You're totally right and it's pretty obvious if it is happening, it's a remake. But I am absolutely in love with the idea of a stand-alone prequel about sealing Alchemy.

Probably after a remake, I think.

I mean we don’t really need a remake straight out a rerelease of the trilogy would be good. Plus the fan demand thing you were talking about is what got Xenoblade over to NA and what got EarthBound back on the eShop and both of those did exceptional. Xenoblade continues to be exceptional.

JRPGs sell on Switch. They just do. Xenoblade, Octopath, the Final Fantasy games, Dragon Quest, Three Houses. These game’s had the backing of Nintendo and a decent advertising campaign and then hey went on to be successes. Merge that with the already established fan base that wants Golden Sun back and it just makes sense. Even a remake or Golden Sun 4 could easily sell with Nintendo’s backing. It just needs to be done.
This is the largest idea I want to counter with. A rising tide LIFTS the ships in this case, and the landscape is different.

I don't know if y'all remember 2010 and video games therein, but it was a bad time to be a JRPG. Video game fidelity lust was at a peak, Gears of War and Modern Warfare success was 2-3 years established and made every game coming out in the subsequent wave yearn to be brown and serious. Shooters were everywhere, holy crap.

What's more, the communities hadn't coalesced on the internet solidly. Things were still more fractured, harder to find. It was harder to reach niche audiences. I'd been a Golden Sun fan since 2001 but when Dark Dawn was announced, I didn't have a way to say how excited I was. Also didn't help that the game was more mediocre, but that's ancillary to my point.

The point is that that has changed. There's a space now for Phantasy Star Online 2 to exist alongside Animal Crossing alongside COD: Warzone. It's much easier to reach JRPG audiences and have them spread their love for the games out there. You don't have to rely on an anime box cover selling your game in a Gamestop to bored weebs. Xenoblade, Octopath, Final Fantasies, ect have all benefited from this, and from hearing and knowing each other's passion. It's pretty much exactly what happened with DQ this past year. So things are different and infinitely better than where they were when DD came out stillborn.

Is it that wild to think that Nintendo would look at the success of DQ11+Hero in Smash/Xenoblade 2/Octopath and go "**** me that went better than expected. What else do we have JRPG-wise... Pokemon, sure that's not really... Oh Camelot is open... they have one of these... they're free... and people want Golden Sun back... Well, ****, what are we waiting for."
 
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Evil Trapezium

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If you were Sakurai, and your mission was to make FP2 be a pass that adds popular and/or longstanding fighter requests amongst the fanbase, and the pass is an even 3-3 split, what two other first-party characters do you include alongside Min Min that has a similar if not broader mass appeal? Only stipulation is no characters that are already ATs (so no obvious Waluigi/Isaac picks), but anybody else, spirit or not, is fair game.

I'd go myself with Elma/Bandana Dee, as both characters are very popular amongst the general fanbase and are at this point notable admissions from the roster. Impa and Dixie would be next in line if not for their easy echo potential, and I love Toad but realistically could see those two before him given PP already being a Mario DLC character
This is my list

Fighter pass volume 2 thingy thing.png
 

SirBillyBob

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Something I was thinking about with DLC selections...I think it's possible Nintendo may be trying to put a focus on Switch titles. Call it a hunch.
>Mario Kart 8 deluxe and Super Mario Party are both some of the best selling Switch titles.
>>Waluigi is featured in both of them
>>>Nintendo may be putting more focus on Switch Titles.
waluwin.jpg
 

Speed Weed

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smdh all this talk of dead nintendo franchise revivals and not a SINGLE mention of sin & punishment
 

zeldasmash

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I mean we don’t really need a remake straight out a rerelease of the trilogy would be good. Plus the fan demand thing you were talking about is what got Xenoblade over to NA and what got EarthBound back on the eShop and both of those did exceptional. Xenoblade continues to be exceptional.

JRPGs sell on Switch. They just do. Xenoblade, Octopath, the Final Fantasy games, Dragon Quest, Three Houses. These game’s had the backing of Nintendo and a decent advertising campaign and then hey went on to be successes. Merge that with the already established fan base that wants Golden Sun back and it just makes sense. Even a remake or Golden Sun 4 could easily sell with Nintendo’s backing. It just needs to be done.

There’s no sure fire way to determine a games outcome yeah but fan demand is absolutely one of the most conclusive ones. If they’re asking for it they must want it. And if they want it and we give it to ‘em they’re probably going to buy. It’s a much better odds than a 50/50 new property so, yeah, it’s as close as they can get to risk free without it being called Mario.
I just wish F-Zero can get this treatment...I know they are different genres but...I can't help but hope F-Zero gets this treatment. 17 years with no new title...
 

Aurora Jenny

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Real Talk; Cortez is a super fun bad boy and Iove how the game series was so tongue-in-cheek with the time-travel shenanigans up to the point he found himself being the REASON everything was set in motion. That moment he figured it out and the resulting expletive that was heard throughout the time stream was gut-busting. Duke Nuk'em but likeable, pretty much. Either way, I don't see him as a potential candidate, but would I love to see more from the series? Absolutely.

Edit: Dang-it. How could they take this even further? Alternate universes. End up so far back that everytime he goes forwards he ends up in a new what-if that he spends a half-level fighting through to get to the point he figures out what went wrong and THEN goes back, fixes things, rinses and repeats.
 
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Droodle

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To be completely fair, I do think 44 people in Camelot are probably enough to put together a remake of GS, provided with outsourcing involved. I think Monolith Soft made XC 2 with a similar amount of people in 2 years, but it did have a lot of outsourcing done (which probably led to the weird implementation of a ton of elements in that game). At least that's what I've read in interviews, but that was a long while back.
 

I.D.

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The keyword here seems to be "relatively". Monolith has more manpower and had the resources, so they planned according to what they had.

I mean, if we say that you'd need a team of around 248 or more people (the total number of Monolith employees, according to a quick search) to make a modern RPG, neither should Game Freak's 143, by that metric. Here's the thing: you could theoretically make a pipeline that requires a ****ton of new content besides what the game already had, but... there's no real reason to.

If Camelot has less people, they'd need to adjust their pipeline to work with what they have. I'm not saying it's going to be the best remake ever, I'm saying it's a feasible one.
The thing with Monolith Soft is, they have multiple teams working on multiple projects at the same time. According to the most recent interview, since 2018 after Torna finished development, they had 3 different teams: one focusing on Xenoblade DE, one focusing on their next game and one working on both simultaneously. And that's just for their own in-house games. They probably have dozens of developers working on BOTW 2 (they had around 50 working on the first one) and there's also their studio in Kyoto focused on providing general assistance to Nintendo titles, such as Animal Crossing.
 
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N3ON

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I think remaking GS1&2 effectively is well within the capabilities of Camelot.

Making a good GS4 is another issue entirely since it's been a looooong time since they made a truly quality RPG.

From what I hear even their sports outings are kinda so-so these days.
 
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