Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[andree123]

Here's what we got.

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slowpoke I posted this before you posted it.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

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No spirit event but at least we got a 2000s tournament event.

Ironic it's a 200X tournament but Megaman isn't playable

 

[Will]

I mean...
View attachment 274276
I'd admittedly be tempted to burst out like that too.

I bursted out with a dancing gif and embedded Celebration when Captain Toad got deconfirmed as the biggest "I told you so" I ever could to everyone who was shoving it down my throat at the time.

Best infraction I ever got.

 

[Franauts]

There's a new tourney event for this weekend ¡"Fighting! Born in 200X"
I guess there will be no new spirits in a board event.

 

[Will]

So I propose that we start getting into teams to bet on our characters' odds.

The teams are:
#SpringManiacs
#MinMinions

#PraiseHelix

 

[Garteam]

New tourney based on characters and stages that debuted in the 2000s.

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I guess no announcement this week?

Edit: 'd

 

[andree123]

New spirits tourney based on characters and stages that debuted in the 2000s

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I guess no announcement this week?

Yo, I posted that before you.

 

[Cosmic77]

It's a little scary knowing it won't be long before Lucario, Rosalina, and their games are all 15 years old.

 

[Icedragonadam]

So the characters available for the tourney:

Villager(April 14th 2001)
Olimar(October 26th, 2001)
Roy(March 29th, 2002)
Bowser. Jr(July 19th, 2002)
Toon Link(December 13th, 2002)
Zero Suit Samus(May 27th, 2004)
Ike(April 20th, 2005)
Dark Samus(May 26th, 2005)
Lucas(April 20th, 2006)
Lucario(September 28th, 2006)
Rosalina(November 1st, 2007)
Wii Fit Trainer(December 1st, 2007)
Bayonetta(October 29th, 2009)

 

[Will]

Yo, I posted that before you.

why are you fighting for bragging rights on who posted the twitter embed first

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Wonder if we'll get an 80s, 90s and 2010s tournament event as well at some point.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

People complain about the idea of AT fans getting more vocal but there's only like five of them with vocal fanbases. Nobody's really gunning for the Mario Paint fly swatter or Color TV-Game 15. Contrast that with the mountains upon mountains of characters people insisted were shoo-ins because "well if Joker could get in..."

Let's take a look at this statement with a little more depth.

I'll list every single assist trophy that has ever been in Smash and rank just how big their fanbases were for the Ultimate cycle.

Note: I'll be generalizing the size of a fan base here. Its nearly impossible to accurately determine the true size of a fan base. I'll be going over my experience with the fanbases so you may have a different view on just how big these characters were. It's also worth noting that requests for Smash =/= general popularity. Some characters have both, but several characters only have one or the other.

To make things easy to read, I'll color code each category.

Red = Highly Requested
Yellow = Somewhat Requested
Green = Rarely Requested
Blue = Virtually Never Requested

That said, I'll take out Little Mac, Dark Samus and Isabelle since they are now playable characters. I'll take Spring Man out as well, because he might become playable. Regardless, if I had to rank those four in regards to how popular they were for their respective cycles, it'd be....

Little Mac
Dark Samus
Isabelle
Spring Man

Now on to the actual ATs!

Spoiler: AT introduced in Brawl

AT introduced in Brawl:
Andross
Barbara
Devil
Dr. Wright
Excitebike
Gray Fox
Hammer Bro
Helirin
Infantry and Tanks
Isaac
Jeff
Jill
Kat & Ana
Knuckle Joe
Lakitu & Spinies
Lyn - Was the fan favorite choice Pre-Brawl
Metroid
Mr. Resetti
Nintendog
Ray Mk. III
Saki
Samurai Goroh
Shadow - Support really flared up during Ultimate's cycle
Starfy
Tingle
Waluigi

Spoiler: AT introduced in Smash 4

AT introduced in Smash 4
Ashley
Chain Chomp
Color TV-Game 15
Dillon
Dr. Kawashima
Elec Man
Ghirahim - Was heavily requested for Smash 4, but his support seemed to die down compared to Midna and Skull Kid
Ghosts
Magnus - had a sizable fanbase for Smash 4
Midna
Mother Brain
Nightmare
Phosphora
Riki
Sable Prince
Sheriff
Skull Kid
Starman
Takamaru

Spoiler: AT introduced in Ultimate

AT introduced in Ultimate
Akira
Alucard
Arcade Bunny
Black Knight
Bomberman
Burrowing Snagret
Chef Kawasaki
Flies & Hand
Guile
Kapp'n
Klaptrap
Knuckles
Krystal - Used to be highly requested but has died down a little bit, if she appears in a new game, I expect her to be highly requested again
Moon
Nikki
Rathalos
Shovel Knight - During Smash 4 DLC, he was highly requested, but in Ultimate's cycle, his support toned down
Squid Sisters
Sukapon - sizable fanbase in Brawl's era
Tiki
Thwomp
Vince
Wily Capsule
Yuri
Zero

I know you saying there only being five characters with vocal fanbses was hyperbole, but I just wanted to examine this.

There's a lot of requested characters. Yeah they're to varying degrees but they are there.

If Spring Man is confirmed, it will open the floodgates for AT character requests.

Then again, I don't think that's a bad thing. I welcome it!

 

[Neverx]

It's been a hot minute since the last new spirit board event.

 

[Koopaul]

Can I just ask why Min Min became so popular? I like all the ARMS characters. They have wonderful designs. But I never understood why Min Min in particular stood out for so many people. Personally I always loved the idea of a genius fangirl who invented a mech suit so she could compete in the competition. There's something about that which is so endearing and makes me want to root for her. Min Min runs a ramen restaurant and knows kung fu. I mean, that's pretty cool. But I don't know why that's any cooler than a movie star who uses her hair to fight. Or an internet snakeboard streamer with a snake body. They're all cool. Even Spring Man is charming with his boi-oi-oi-oing doofiness. He reminds me of a Ninja Turtle loving pizza kicking ass and being a goofball.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Can I just ask why Min Min became so popular.

She's waifu.

But not waifu enough for people to feel degenerate.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

She's waifu.

But not waifu enough for people to feel degenerate.

Twintelle's obviously the degenerate choice.

 

[Koopaul]

Oh right. Waifu.

It's an obvious but disappointing answer.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Can I just ask why Min Min became so popular? I like all the ARMS characters. They have wonderful designs. But I never understood why Min Min in particular stood out for so many people. Personally I always loved the idea of a genius fangirl who invented a mech suit so she could compete in the competition. There's something about that which is so endearing and makes me want to root for her. Min Min runs a ramen restaurant and knows kung fu. I mean, that's pretty cool. But I don't know why that's any cooler than a movie star who uses her hair to fight. Or an internet snakeboard streamer with a snake body. They're all cool. Even Spring Man is charming with his boi-oi-oi-oing doofiness. He reminds me of a Ninja Turtle loving pizza kicking ass and being a goofball.

Different strokes for different folks. Noodle hair and noodle arms are a funny idea yet Min Min is a serious character so that's a nice contrast. Kicking's a unique mechanic in the context of ARMS. And, um, sex appeal might also play a role? I've seen a lot of people who dig Min Min... that way.

 

[Idon]

Can I just ask why Min Min became so popular? I like all the ARMS characters. They have wonderful designs. But I never understood why Min Min in particular stood out for so many people. Personally I always loved the idea of a genius fangirl who invented a mech suit so she could compete in the competition. There's something about that which is so endearing and makes me want to root for her. Min Min runs a ramen restaurant and knows kung fu. I mean, that's pretty cool. But I don't know why that's any cooler than a movie star who uses her hair to fight. Or an internet snakeboard streamer with a snake body. They're all cool. Even Spring Man is charming with his boi-oi-oi-oing doofiness. He reminds me of a Ninja Turtle loving pizza kicking ass and being a goofball.

Cute and clever design. Kinda cool with the dragon laser too.

That's about it.

 

[Koopaul]

Yeah the contrast between her serious personality and noodle arms is a plus. Like I said. I like all the ARMS characters, even Min Min. I just like her about the same as a bunch of other characters.

I'm sad so many people think Spring Man is "boring" when really he's a funny charming guy.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

He reminds me of a Ninja Turtle loving pizza kicking ass and being a goofball.

Okay, now I want Spring Man even more.

 

[Cosmic77]

Yeah the contrast between her serious personality and noodle arms is a plus. Like I said. I like all the ARMS characters, even Min Min. I just like her about the same as a bunch of other characters.

I'm sad so many people think Spring Man is "boring" when really he's a funny charming guy.

Ironically, the two boring mascots of ARMS both have a more vibrant and colorful personality than the fan favorite, who's mostly stoic in-game.

But seriously, Spring Man and Ribbon Girl are pretty charming and lovable. Their VAs do a good job expressing the characters' emotions.

 

[SnowClaws]

Look likes this is ready:

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Here is a recap below, and hopefully #2 of the top 10 becomes #1

 

[Perkilator]

I made a support thread for Ryota Hayami from Wave Race if anyone's interested.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Ironic it's a 200X tournament but Megaman isn't playable

At least Proto Man is.

For real though, Mii's technically should count, right?

 

[Goombaic]

Look likes this is ready:

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Here is a recap below, and hopefully #2 of the top 10 becomes #1

Nice, always interesting seeing these. Too bad that the results will probably be outdated since the votes were before ARMS' reveal.

 

[Dinoman96]

I said this on ResetEra...but I think Spring Man is a good character design that came at the wrong time.

In this day and age, people want diversity more than ever in their media: female leads, black leads, etc. And that's not a bad thing. Nintendo basically delivered with ARMS, with Twintelle being one of the precious few notable PoC main characters they've made...but the problem is that they went ahead and made the defacto poster character of the game just yet another "generic" white male character, in an industry filled with those.

I don't mean to sound racist when I say this, but I feel like had Spring Man been black and/or female, the character wouldn't receive anywhere near the hate as he does today. It really is just because people don't want the "boring" white guy getting in over the cool female ones, especially with many people unhappy with the diversity quota in Ultimate's roster.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Nice, always interesting seeing these. Too bad that the results will probably be outdated since the votes were before ARMS' reveal.

How would it be outdated? Isn't it a poll for most wanted?

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Nice, always interesting seeing these. Too bad that the results will probably be outdated since the votes were before ARMS' reveal.

Then there's me, who ended up voting for an ARMS character regardless

I do wonder if they'll list off the most voted ARMS characters in the poll assuming the results will probably be fairly genuine compared to the fare amount of bandwagoning going on post announcement

 

[slrigeigdew]

I said this on ResetEra...but I think Spring Man is a good character design that came at the wrong time.

In this day and age, people want diversity more than ever in their media: female leads, black leads, etc. And that's not a bad thing. Nintendo basically delivered with ARMS, with Twintelle being one of the precious few notable PoC main characters they've made...but the problem is that they went ahead and made the defacto poster character of the game just yet another "generic" white male character, in an industry filled with those.

I don't mean to sound racist when I say this, but I feel like had Spring Man been black and/or female, the character wouldn't receive anywhere near the hate as he does today. It really is just because people don't want the "boring" white guy getting in over the cool female ones, especially with many people unhappy with the diversity quota in Ultimate's roster.

Oh no I completely agree, if the genders were reversed people would be clamoring that their waifu "Spring girl" was a lock and that would be the end of that. Doubly so if he was a different race.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

It's a little scary knowing it won't be long before Lucario, Rosalina, and their games are all 15 years old.

Fun fact. tomorrow Shulk's game turns 10 years old.

 

[SneakyLink]

Figured I'd post a moveset concept I created a while ago for one of my most wanted characters: Otto Matic. From the video game... Otto Matic!

First off, this is Otto Matic:

Spoiler

The Robot who must save the Earth from the Giant Brain. Traveling between planets, Otto Matic rescues the humans on the planet while collecting Rocket Fuel and defeating Aliens.

Now the moveset:

Spoiler

Jab 1: A quick punch with his left arm
Jab 2: A quick punch with his right arm
Dash Attack: A charge with Otto Matic’s head
F-Tilt: A slightly more powerful punch
U-Tilt: A punch to the air
D-Tilt: A quick leg lunge
F-Smash: Otto Matic puts his right hand behind and winds it up. He then charges the arm forward
U-Smash (Supernova): Otto Matic puts his arms to the side of his head while electricity charges up. He then jumps and discharges the Electricity
D-Smash: Otto Matic prepares two Spark Blasters and sets them to his sides pointed towards the ground. He then unleashes their power.
N-air: A quick kick
F-air: A quick punch
B-air: Otto Matic throws a Rocket Dart behind him
U-air: A quick Spark Blaster shot. Weaker than a uncharged Down Smash
D-air: A swift double foot stomp
Neutral Special: Otto Matic fires whatever weapon is currently selected. If none is selected or all are recharging, Otto Matic performs a medium strength punch.
Side Special: Otto Matic pulls out a Magnet as a robot serpent appears to move across the stage. Otto Matic stage skis across, hitting anyone in the way
Up Special: Otto Matic’s Jump Jet, he soars a great distance with it, but it has limited fuel. If there’s not enough fuel, he gains little distance. Fuel recharges according to a gear at the bottom that slowly gets colored green. The less green, the less fuel.
Down Special: Otto Matic uses his head and switches between the following weapons:
Fists
Ray Gun: Long range, but doesn’t stun and is fairly weak. Has the shortest cooldown time
Flamethrower Ray: Fires a burst of fire. Short range, but powerful. Has the longest cooldown time
Freeze Ray: Freezes opponents for two seconds. Has a medium cooldown time.
Items: If Otto Matic is holding an item other than his own, he can store it for future use. The item disappears upon being KO’d or after 30 seconds.
An icon at the bottom lets Otto Matic know which weapon he has selected. Items appear with the icon of a capsule.
Grab: A lunge with his right arm
Pummel: A Head-butt
F-Throw: Throws the opponent forward
B-Throw: Throws the opponent backwards without looking
U-Throw: Throws the opponent into the air
D-Throw: Slams the opponent into the ground.

Please note, I couldn't decide on a Final Smash or attributes.

 

[Ben Holt]

Wonder if we'll get an 80s, 90s and 2010s tournament event as well at some point.

Iirc, we DID have an 80s event.

 

[SneakyLink]

Iirc, we DID have an 80s event.

And a 90s event.

All we need is a 2010s event and we're set.

 

[Goombaic]

How would it be outdated? Isn't it a poll for most wanted?

Speculation was still mostly focused on third parties at the time with only a handful of first parties having significant demand. After ARMS' reveal, a good number of first parties regained a lot of support. People's most wanted changes on a dime in the Smash fanbase, as seen when Dante was seeminly "leaked."

 

[Glaciacott]

The reason people don't like Spring Man as much as the others should not be a surprise. The most prevalent character is usually designed to be universally likable, which is why you have peppy, go-getter attitudes that are happy and wholesome. It's made for the Timmys, the Gryffindors, etc etc., those who like up-front strong characters who are plucky and junk.

But then to a lot of people the side cast is usually always more interesting than the main character. Happens all the time in cartoons and anime and probably every medium where you have particularly popular side characters that are that huge to people because they're not the happy go-getter archetype. And that's because not everyone is a timmy/griffindor. Some people prefer the edgy, cool characters and style over substance; others prefer cold, chill strategy; and so on.

Of course, there's the more superficial stuff like guys who will want their "waifus" because they butt is big or whatever, but it would be unfair to reduce all female characters to being just that, much like I think it's unfair to reduce Twintelle's character as just being black. We can celebrate that that is part of who she is without using it to reduce who she is.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I just realize that if it is indeed Spring Man we are getting, the worst part isn't him getting in over anyone else from ARMS. Its that we are gonna have deal with the Waluigi fandom all over again...

 

[Cosmic77]

I said this on ResetEra...but I think Spring Man is a good character design that came at the wrong time.

In this day and age, people want diversity more than ever in their media: female leads, black leads, etc. And that's not a bad thing. Nintendo basically delivered with ARMS, with Twintelle being one of the precious few notable PoC main characters they've made...but the problem is that they went ahead and made the defacto poster character of the game just yet another "generic" white male character, in an industry filled with those.

I don't mean to sound racist when I say this, but I feel like had Spring Man been black and/or female, the character wouldn't receive anywhere near the hate as he does today. It really is just because people don't want the "boring" white guy getting in over the cool female ones, especially with many people unhappy with the diversity quota in Ultimate's roster.

Honestly, I don't think gender or race has anything to do with it. I see Ribbon Girl receive similar complaints.

It's just that compared to the rest of the ARMS cast (noodle vendor with ramen arms, famous actor with hair that can punch, robot cop and dog duo) Spring Man feels more...standard, I guess? He's a happy-go-lucky athlete that blends in perfectly with the concept of ARMS. There's no weird or wild creativity in his design or concept that makes you stop and say, "That's really neat. I never would've thought of a character like that for a fighting game."

 

[Krankees]

I just realize that if it is indeed Spring Man we are getting, the worst part isn't him getting in over anyone else from ARMS. Its that we are gonna have deal with the Waluigi fandom all over again...

Maybe not if Springtron were to take over as an assist trophy because then who would replace Waluigi?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Oh no I completely agree, if the genders were reversed people would be clamoring that their waifu "Spring girl" was a lock and that would be the end of that. Doubly so if he was a different race.

It's probably that the lens of YouTube is a very warped and dirty lens to view this topic from, but honestly, I probably wouldn't like this hypothetical Spring Woman very much since black female (and half the time, lesbian) leads just seem like pandering to me. It wouldn't help that everyone would be calling her objectively the best choice because she's a black female and nothing more (with those on the extreme side of things saying it's morally wrong to pick anyone else) because I fully believe that evaluating a character through sheer tokenism is a major disservice to it.

EDIT: Actually, this effect probably depends on execution, and how much the creators pat themselves on the back for it, as I have 0 problems with characters like Twintelle or The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild's Gerudo.

Of course, there's the more superficial stuff like guys who will want their "waifus" because they butt is big or whatever, but it would be unfair to reduce all female characters to being just that, much like I think it's unfair to reduce Twintelle's character as just being black. We can celebrate that that is part of who she is without using it to reduce who she is.

Pretty much this. Twintelle is a really cool French inspired (inspired because I don't know if France exists in ARMS) movie star who conducts herself with grace and has really cool floating powers and hair that is also another pair of arms. She's also really into fitness, which is not a typical thing to see from this type of character. You miss all of this when just looking at her gender and ethnicity.