Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

Also if we're talking about spells not being shared amongst DQ protags, Hatchet Man is an ability that you can only use with axes, not swords

 

[GoodGrief741]

I just feel like even if you go the "Conglomerate ARMs" route, Min Min just couldn't due to the fact one of her arms is a literal gun.

I've never played ARMs, so my opinion is probably incorrect, but surely she uses it, no?

Personally I think that specific arm is pretty hard to implement in a 2D setting so I'd expect them to leave it out.

 

[Shroob]

Personally I think that specific arm is pretty hard to implement in a 2D setting so I'd expect them to leave it out.

How exactly does it work?

I know nothing about ARMs but what is it? A blaster of some sort?

 

[ZephyrZ]

I just feel like even if you go the "Conglomerate ARMs" route, Min Min just couldn't due to the fact one of her arms is a literal gun.

I've never played ARMs, so my opinion is probably incorrect, but surely she uses it, no?

I believe the "gloves" they wear (which are also confusingly called "ARMS") are interchangable. So Springman can equip a dragon laser on his hand as well.

 

[GoodGrief741]

How exactly does it work?

I know nothing about ARMs but what is it? A blaster of some sort?

When you punch, it stays in place and fires out a laser in the direction of the enemy for a bit. You can still move around while it's firing, which works in a slow paced game like ARMS, but I can't imagine an arm like that being useful in Smash because it requires homing, and it's pretty easy to avoid at the speed of Smash. Not to mention it'd be weird to see Min Min running off while still attached to an arm fixed in place in the air.

 

[Shroob]

When you punch, it stays in place and fires out a laser in the direction of the enemy for a bit. You can still move around while it's firing, which works in a slow paced game like ARMS, but I can't imagine an arm like that being useful in Smash because it requires homing, and it's pretty easy to avoid at the speed of Smash. Not to mention it'd be weird to see Min Min running off while still attached to an arm fixed in place in the air.

Could you dumb it down to work ala Link's swordbeams that no one remembers that he even has?

Basically, every x amount of times, it fires off a quick beam after she gets a hit in?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Could you dumb it down to work ala Link's swordbeams that no one remembers that he even has?

Basically, every x amount of times, it fires off a quick beam after she gets a hit in?

Well, no, that's not really how it works in ARMS. You aren't supposed to punch with it, you can, but the laser doesn't fire on contact.

I guess the closest thing I can think of it is the X Bomb, except instead of firing in an X shape it fires just one beam at the person closest to it, and the person who threw it is still attached to the bomb itself.

 

[ZephyrZ]

When you punch, it stays in place and fires out a laser in the direction of the enemy for a bit. You can still move around while it's firing, which works in a slow paced game like ARMS, but I can't imagine an arm like that being useful in Smash because it requires homing, and it's pretty easy to avoid at the speed of Smash. Not to mention it'd be weird to see Min Min running off while still attached to an arm fixed in place in the air.

Moves don't have to work exactly like they did in the source material. They could speed the move up if they wanted. Like Pit's Guardian Orbitars for instance actually have fairly powerful hitboxes in KI:U, but no hitboxes at all in Smash.

If they want to include the dragon head they can just make it work like a beam version of Palutena's Autoreticle, maybe trading a little bit of speed for power.

 

[Staarih]

How exactly does it work?

I know nothing about ARMs but what is it? A blaster of some sort?

Just search Min Min on YouTube and you’ll see, here, in like the first 20 seconds:

But every fighter in ARMS can equip every arm so her not using it and/or other fighters using it wouldn’t be a problem. The Smash moveset will also determine a lot, we have no idea if different arms will even play a part (or if you can switch them or they’re set to specific attacks or what). The ARMS character could literally go in any and every way, and while I’m okay with a single character or one + alts, I’ll just not predict much at all and take what I get haha.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I just feel like even if you go the "Conglomerate ARMs" route, Min Min just couldn't due to the fact one of her arms is a literal gun.

I've never played ARMs, so my opinion is probably incorrect, but surely she uses it, no?

Well see, that's the thing about ARMS, is the arms are like weapons in an RPG. You can swap them out.

Min Min starts with 3 different arm choices by default, and at the end, every fighter can use every arm, so she by no means has to use the gun.

 

[MisterHollywood]

Olimar and Alph control exactly the same way in Pikmin though and even have the same/very similar idles. While I do wish their silly voices were in Smash, I don’t think they’re misrepresented at all. I’m more disappointed that Louie, President, Brittany and Charlie aren’t also alts than I am that Alph isn’t an echo - even though him being one with Rock pikmin instead of purple would be lit.

the Koopalings are all piloting the exact same vehicle in this game. If they weren’t inside the clown car and all played exactly the same it would be weird and feel strange, but it works because of the clown car.

All of the dragon quest protagonists have access to the same spells and wield swords and could theoretically be outfitted to have the exact same move-set in their games for the most part.

Even if the Arms characters do play similarly in their source game there are things canonically that some do and others simply can’t, which makes the alternate costume misrepresentation argument valid. The other alt examples I listed don’t have this problem imo.
Spring Man doesn’ t have martial arts training like MinMin and probably couldn’t pull off her acrobatic kick. MinMin can’t teleport like Ninjara. Ninjara can’t jump four times in the air like Ribbon Girl. Ribbon Girl can’t create shockwaves of pure determination when charging or whatever ridiculous thing Spring Man does. Unless they made the Arms character as generic as possible and omitted all special characteristics, those inconsistencies would feel strange with alts. Even if they did keep them generic with a move set they could all cannonically pull off, MinMin doing Spring Man’s idle animation would look a little off to anyone who played ARMS a lot.

Ness can’t do PK starstorm in Earthbound, and they made sure to explain that he was taught the move by Poo specifically for Smash in a trophy description - so the team clearly cares a great deal about representing the fighters the best that they can if they went as far to explain away an inconsistency that only hardcore Mother fans would tune into and probably wouldn’t even care much about if they did pick up on it.

All this is true, but it doesn’t change how Smash bro’s works. There are, as Sakurai puts it, certain “creative liberties” that Sakurai applies to a character to be able to make them work in smash. And even though he mentions the creative liberties thing specifically in reference when asked about 3rd party characters I’m sure it applies to every character. A character isn’t 100% translated from their home game to Smash ever, there’s always things that the team adds to the character to be able to make them work in Smash. The ARMS characters all have unique abilities of course but that’s not what Sakurai is looking for. He’s adding an ARMS character because of what unique traits an ARMS character can bring in general, not because this one specific character can do ****. Min Min has martial arts? Ninjara can teleport? That’s cool, except we already have characters that have those abilities as well. He isn’t looking for character specific abilities. What makes an ARMS character unique is their stretchy arms and the gloves that they can attach to them. That’s all that matters when picking an arms character. As long as the character can extend their arms, which literally every character from the game can, then they’ll work fine and thus, work fine as alternate costumes for each other. The unique trait of extended arms is inherent in every arms character so it wouldn’t surprise me if he copy and pasted the same moveset for them all.

There’s a lot of characters that have some bull**** about them that exists for Smash only. Main example I can think of is Joker. The entire reason that Joker is unique in persona 5 is his ability to use multiple personas, that’s literally the main gameplay mechanic that sets him apart from everyone else and yet in smash he uses the one persona that most people probably drop as soon as they get their hands on more and instead he’s reduced to using a knife and gun, which once again, a majority of the people who’ve actually played the game don’t remember Joker by. His unique abilities mean nothing in Smash so I honestly doubt because Min Min kicks and Spring Man doesn’t Sakurai would go “nah even tho these guys function exactly the same one kicks so no way they can have the same moveset”

 

[Swamp Sensei]

His unique abilities mean nothing in Smash

Honestly, I'd argue they were.

A knife and a gun are pretty unique weapons in Smash.

They certainly didn't catch every unique element of Joker, but they did focus on some unique aspects.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I see no problem with the Dragon ARM. I see it as a long beam projectile that takes a moment to set up but does next to no shield damage so it's more a spacing tool.

 

[MisterHollywood]

Honestly, I'd argue they were.

A knife and a gun are pretty unique weapons in Smash.

They certainly didn't catch every unique element of Joker, but they did focus on some unique aspects.

They focused on the wrong aspects is the point I’m making. You don’t remember Joker because he has a knife and a gun, 2 of the most basic ass weapons in history, you remember Joker because the ************ summons demons and uses their powers to fight. He doesn’t summon a single demon and just get his powers enhanced

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They focused on the wrong aspects is the point I’m making. You don’t remember Joker because he has a knife and a gun, 2 of the most basic ass weapons in history, you remember Joker because the ************ summons demons and uses their powers to fight. He doesn’t summon a single demon and just get his powers enhanced

I mean, who can really define the wrong aspects?

I feel there's some relativity in this argument.

 

[MisterHollywood]

I mean, who can really define the wrong aspects?

I feel there's some relativity in this argument.

Okay think of it this way right

what makes Joker unique in his game? He has a gun? No, every party member has a gun. He has a knife? Yeah, that’s true, but he only uses his knife for one attack. What makes Joker unique in Persona 5 is his ability to wield multiple personas, it’s his defining gameplay ability.

Now what makes Ninjara unique in his game? He has the ability to teleport? Cool, that’s an ability he has that no one else in ARMS has!

but wait, hold on, Joker’s unique and defining ability in his game isn’t represented at all in Smash, right?

so it isn’t exaclty out of the realm of possibility that Ninjara / Min Min / Twintelle / whoever’s unique and defining traits in ARMS aren’t used at all in Smash, and instead they’re watered down to just being extendo arms character like how Joker is sudden power demon character

 

[osby]

They focused on the wrong aspects is the point I’m making. You don’t remember Joker because he has a knife and a gun, 2 of the most basic ass weapons in history, you remember Joker because the ************ summons demons and uses their powers to fight. He doesn’t summon a single demon and just get his powers enhanced

I'd argue that using guns is a pretty important part of his character. He's shown using him in most promotional art for P5 and the marketing made it a pretty big deal of dual-wielding returning after the first game. Generic or not, both gun and knife are pretty important characteristics of his design as a phantom thief.

Also, nitpick but Joker summons Personas, not demons. And he summons one, Arsene.

 

[MisterHollywood]

I'd argue that using guns is a pretty important part of his character. He's shown using him in most promotional art for P5 and the marketing made it a pretty big deal of dual-wielding returning after the first game. Generic or not, both gun and knife are pretty important characteristics of his design as a phantom thief.

Also, nitpick but Joker summons Personas, not demons. And he summons one, Arsene.

Okay so I explained what I meant in my most recent post but I’ll explain it again

I’m not saying Joker’s gun and knife aren’t important part of his character, and yes they’re unique in smash. IN SMASH. Those are the key terms here. Every party member has a melee weapon and a gun in Persona 5, and every party member has a unique persona to them. Joker in smash is superficially representing how the game plays, and that’s 100% okay he doesn’t have to be in depth as **** using multiple personas at a time and harnessing all their abilities, but it doesn’t change the fact that in Persona 5 joker has more unique abilities that Sakurai simply chose to omit for Smash

so the point is yes, ARMS characters all have unique abilities, but Sakurai can choose to omit these abilities for smash if he wants. There’s really no way we can know if he wants to show off individual abilities or just represent the ARMS character by having wacky extendo arms be their whole moveset. We just don’t know

also funny nitpick but it was, and I absolutely cannot stress how much I mean this, the most unnecessary **** ever. I’m sorry he summons Arsene and they’re called Personas arrest me officer

 

[snowgolem]

Okay think of it this way right

what makes Joker unique in his game? He has a gun? No, every party member has a gun. He has a knife? Yeah, that’s true, but he only uses his knife for one attack. What makes Joker unique in Persona 5 is his ability to wield multiple personas, it’s his defining gameplay ability.

Now what makes Ninjara unique in his game? He has the ability to teleport? Cool, that’s an ability he has that no one else in ARMS has!

but wait, hold on, Joker’s unique and defining ability in his game isn’t represented at all in Smash, right?

so it isn’t exaclty out of the realm of possibility that Ninjara / Min Min / Twintelle / whoever’s unique and defining traits in ARMS aren’t used at all in Smash, and instead they’re watered down to just being extendo arms character like how Joker is sudden power demon character

To me it seems like you’re suggesting that, in order to properly represent Persona, Joker should have the ability to summon multiple, different persona. Which is unrealistic from a development standpoint. Sure, summoning persona is what makes him unique, but moves like the neutral B and tilts aren’t meant to be unique. Mario’s fireball is a perfect example. It’s not exactly unique, because the move isn’t meant to be unique.
and you just posted something which corrects my first part but i’m too lazy so just ignore that

 

[MisterHollywood]

To me it seems like you’re suggesting that, in order to properly represent Persona, Joker should have the ability to summon multiple, different persona. Which is unrealistic from a development standpoint. Sure, summoning persona is what makes him unique, but moves like the neutral B and tilts aren’t meant to be unique. Mario’s fireball is a perfect example. It’s not exactly unique, because the move isn’t meant to be unique.
and you just posted something which corrects my first part but i’m too lazy so just ignore that

I’m just gonna copy and paste this

’m not saying Joker’s gun and knife aren’t important part of his character, and yes they’re unique in smash. IN SMASH. Those are the key terms here. Every party member has a melee weapon and a gun in Persona 5, and every party member has a unique persona to them. Joker in smash is superficially representing how the game plays, and that’s 100% okay he doesn’t have to be in depth as **** using multiple personas at a time and harnessing all their abilities, but it doesn’t change the fact that in Persona 5 joker has more unique abilities that Sakurai simply chose to omit for Smash. so the point is yes, ARMS characters all have unique abilities, but Sakurai can choose to omit these abilities for smash if he wants. There’s really no way we can know if he wants to show off individual abilities or just represent the ARMS character by having wacky extendo arms be their whole moveset. We just don’t know

^^ IF YOU THINK IM CRITICIZING JOKER’S DESIGN JUST READ THIS

I’m just comparing Joker to how the ARMS character can (emphasis on CAN, as in POSSIBLE not GUARANTEED) be handled, that is all

 

[snowgolem]

I’m just gonna copy and paste this

’m not saying Joker’s gun and knife aren’t important part of his character, and yes they’re unique in smash. IN SMASH. Those are the key terms here. Every party member has a melee weapon and a gun in Persona 5, and every party member has a unique persona to them. Joker in smash is superficially representing how the game plays, and that’s 100% okay he doesn’t have to be in depth as **** using multiple personas at a time and harnessing all their abilities, but it doesn’t change the fact that in Persona 5 joker has more unique abilities that Sakurai simply chose to omit for Smash. so the point is yes, ARMS characters all have unique abilities, but Sakurai can choose to omit these abilities for smash if he wants. There’s really no way we can know if he wants to show off individual abilities or just represent the ARMS character by having wacky extendo arms be their whole moveset. We just don’t know

Okay, man. You act like copy and pasting it is gonna do something. Joker is represented pretty good. He can summon Arsene, he can use Eigaon, Tetrakarn, Makarakarn, and probably something else i’m forgetting about. Your point would stand if Joker’s alts were all of the phantom thieves. But that wouldn’t make sense, right? Meaning no, Joker is not a watered down version of his actual character.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

To me it seems like you’re suggesting that, in order to properly represent Persona, Joker should have the ability to summon multiple, different persona. Which is unrealistic from a development standpoint. Sure, summoning persona is what makes him unique, but moves like the neutral B and tilts aren’t meant to be unique. Mario’s fireball is a perfect example. It’s not exactly unique, because the move isn’t meant to be unique.

I personally think that the Persona mechanic should have worked similarly to how Stands worked in Heritage for the Future - whereby they can be summoned at any time, but have their own healthbar, and 'crash' if they take too much damage, as well as making your hitbox larger. However, a really cool idea would be that the SP meter would be at the bottom as part of the UI, and having Arsene out drains the SP meter, as well as him being hit which drains it further. It would recharge when Arsene wasn't active. His moves would probably be very similar to their current ones, though - the only difference being that Down B would summon Arsene and stuff.
Arsene is, realistically, the most logical Persona to reference. As much as I'd love to see others, it makes sense to just have him - as he is Joker's true Persona, after all. Even with Spirits, one has to remember that in Persona 5, one of the most important mechanics is the Confidant system - so character-based Spirits make most sense. Even so, though... I would have liked to see a Jack Frost assist trophy...

 

[MisterHollywood]

Okay, man. You act like copy and pasting it is gonna do something. Joker is represented pretty good. He can summon Arsene, he can use Eigaon, Tetrakarn, Makarakarn, and probably something else i’m forgetting about. Your point would stand if Joker’s alts were all of the phantom thieves. But that wouldn’t make sense, right? Meaning no, Joker is not a watered down version of his actual character.

I was hoping copy and pasting it would make you read it but I guess not

I also guess the idea of Joker being watered down is also opinion based. What isn’t opinion based is that Joker has way more that he does in Persona 5 then he does in smash. My point still stands even if we take the phantom thieves into account. My argument isn’t the phantom thieves should’ve been joker’s alts. My argument is since Joker got stripped of a good chunk of his uniqueness so can the ARMS character. The only reason I’m arguing that is because some people believe that because the ARMS characters have unique attributes in their games they could not possibly be alt costumes of each other. So by looking at how Joker lost unique abilities, it is completely possible for ARMS characters to lose unique abilities. That’s it. you’re gonna keep arguing with me when I’m saying facts. Every character loses functions to be able to work in smash. Some characters gain functions to be able to work in smash. Characters change for this game, and whether you like it or not the ARMS character WILL be changed to work in smash. There’s already a guaranteed change, double jumping. You gonna argue the character absolutely has to be Ribbon Girl because she’s the only character who can canonically double jump? No that’s ****ing stupid. Everyone in Smash needs changes to be able to work and we don’t know how much change Sakurai will put into a character until we see the character

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

What isn’t opinion based is that Joker has way more that he does in Persona 5 then he does in smash.

True, Persona 5 is around a 100 hour game, and last I checked, the only way to get a 100 hour game of Smash is a Sonic on stocks, and Wi-Fi.

 

[snowgolem]

I personally think that the Persona mechanic should have worked similarly to how Stands worked in Heritage for the Future - whereby they can be summoned at any time, but have their own healthbar, and 'crash' if they take too much damage, as well as making your hitbox larger. However, a really cool idea would be that the SP meter would be at the bottom as part of the UI, and having Arsene out drains the SP meter, as well as him being hit which drains it further. It would recharge when Arsene wasn't active. His moves would probably be very similar to their current ones, though - the only difference being that Down B would summon Arsene and stuff.
Arsene is, realistically, the most logical Persona to reference. As much as I'd love to see others, it makes sense to just have him - as he is Joker's true Persona, after all. Even with Spirits, one has to remember that in Persona 5, one of the most important mechanics is the Confidant system - so character-based Spirits make most sense. Even so, though... I would have liked to see a Jack Frost assist trophy...

I was thinking an SP meter could be a good nerf to please all the Joker haters. It could slowly go down as you use specials and as Arsene is out, and if you think you need more SP, you can just put Arsene away.

I was hoping copy and pasting it would make you read it but I guess not

I also guess the idea of Joker being watered down is also opinion based. What isn’t opinion based is that Joker has way more that he does in Persona 5 then he does in smash. My point still stands even if we take the phantom thieves into account. My argument isn’t the phantom thieves should’ve been joker’s alts. My argument is since Joker got stripped of a good chunk of his uniqueness so can the ARMS character. The only reason I’m arguing that is because some people believe that because the ARMS characters have unique attributes in their games they could not possibly be alt costumes of each other. So by looking at how Joker lost unique abilities, it is completely possible for ARMS characters to lose unique abilities. That’s it. you’re gonna keep arguing with me when I’m saying facts. Every character loses functions to be able to work in smash. Some characters gain functions to be able to work in smash. Characters change for this game, and whether you like it or not the ARMS character WILL be changed to work in smash. There’s already a guaranteed change, double jumping. You gonna argue the character absolutely has to be Ribbon Girl because she’s the only character who can canonically double jump? No that’s ****ing stupid. Everyone in Smash needs changes to be able to work and we don’t know how much change Sakurai will put into a character until we see the character

Okay, but it’s on a different level. Joker still has identity. I never meant that you thought Joker should have the phantom thieves as alts. I meant “Joker couldn’t have the phantom thieves as alts in his current state”. So using Joker as an example of a stripped identity which could result in multiple ARMS characters doesn’t work. Your only real argument is that anything could happen, which doesn’t exactly work in anyone’s favor.

 

[MisterHollywood]

I was thinking an SP meter could be a good nerf to please all the Joker haters. It could slowly go down as you use specials and as Arsene is out, and if you think you need more SP, you can just put Arsene away.


Okay, but it’s on a different level. Joker still has identity. I never meant that you thought Joker should have the phantom thieves as alts. I meant “Joker couldn’t have the phantom thieves as alts in his current state”. So using Joker as an example of a stripped identity which could result in multiple ARMS characters doesn’t work. Your only real argument is that anything could happen, which doesn’t exactly work in anyone’s favor.

Lemme boil it down then

1 of the 3 ARMS fans: Min Min absolutely cannot be an alt costume of Spring Man, she has unique abilities in the game that spring man doesn’t

me: okay that’s a valid point, but a lot of characters lose / gain abilities to be able to work in smash. Like, for example, Joker, who loses the ability to use multiple personas to be able to work feasibly in smash

ARMS fan: but that wouldn’t properly represent the character

me: you could argue joker not using multiple personas doesn’t properly represent the character either. As long as Joker uses his weapons and a persona though, it represents him enough, so as long as the arms character uses their extendo arms, it’ll represent them enough

bro I’m not Sakurai but neither are you. If Sakurai wants ARMS characters as alts then he’s gonna take the creative liberties necessary to make that happen. It’s possible. Yeah, my argument is “this could happen”, why is it a problem? I’m ****ing right, it COULD happen lmao I don’t see how that makes me wrong. I’m arguing about something that’s within the realm of possibility. If you were to argue that the arms character is gonna be Lanky Kong because his arms stretch so it could happen, that’s not something within the realm of possibility, and even tho it’d be ****ing hilarious, it wouldn’t make sense. I’m just arguing that arms characters being alts of each other can make sense. It doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen but it can make sense

 

[snowgolem]

Lemme boil it down then

1 of the 3 ARMS fans: Min Min absolutely cannot be an alt costume of Spring Man, she has unique abilities in the game that spring man doesn’t

me: okay that’s a valid point, but a lot of characters lose / gain abilities to be able to work in smash. Like, for example, Joker, who loses the ability to use multiple personas to be able to work feasibly in smash

ARMS fan: but that wouldn’t properly represent the character

me: you could argue joker not using multiple personas doesn’t properly represent the character either. As long as Joker uses his weapons and a persona though, it represents him enough, so as long as the arms character uses their extendo arms, it’ll represent them enough

bro I’m not Sakurai but neither are you. If Sakurai wants ARMS characters as alts then he’s gonna take the creative liberties necessary to make that happen. It’s possible. Yeah, my argument is “this could happen”, why is it a problem? I’m ****ing right, it COULD happen lmao I don’t see how that makes me wrong. I’m argued about something that’s within the realm of possibility. If you were to argue that the arms character is gonna be Lanky Kong because his arms stretch so it could happen, that’s not something within the realm of possibility, and even tho it’d be ****ing hilarious, it wouldn’t make sense. I’m just arguing that arms characters being alts of each other can make sense. It doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen but it can make sense

And I’m just arguing that Joker isn’t the best example, as the extendo arms thing is something every playable ARMS character does, so if Joker were truly watered down that much then you could just put Ryuji on top of him and it would work. I’m not saying you’re incorrect, it’s just not the best example.

 

[MisterHollywood]

And I’m just arguing that Joker isn’t the best example, as the extendo arms thing is something every playable ARMS character does, so if Joker were truly watered down that much then you could just put Ryuji on top of him and it would work. I’m not saying you’re incorrect, it’s just not the best example.

No, my example works fine you’re just not understanding. I’m not saying joker can have alt costumes so the ARMS characters can too, I’m saying Joker lost abilities so the ARMS characters can too. And because the ARMS characters can lose abilities, they can work as alt costumes. If them having unique abilities makes it impossible for them to be alt costumes, then if it is possible for them to not have those abilities in smash, it’s possible for them to work as alt costumes.

 

[snowgolem]

No, my example works fine you’re just not understanding. I’m not saying joker can have alt costumes so the ARMS characters can too, I’m saying Joker lost abilities so the ARMS characters can too. And because the ARMS characters can lose abilities, they can work as alt costumes. If them having unique abilities makes it impossible for them to be alt costumes, then if it is possible for them to not have those abilities in smash, it’s possible for them to work as alt costumes.

While you’re right, it could happen, I think it never would. Sakurai wouldn’t sit and let the ARMS Fighter become a glorified Mii Brawler.

 

[MisterHollywood]

While you’re right, it could happen, I think it never would. Sakurai wouldn’t sit and let the ARMS Fighter become a glorified Mii Brawler.

Okay, it’s cool that you think that and I respect your opinion. I don’t think the same but that’s what gives life meaning right

 

[snowgolem]

Okay, it’s cool that you think that and I respect your opinion. I don’t think the same but that’s what gives life meaning right

yeah i guess so

 

[TechPowah]

i dunno character depiction is weird cause sometimes it just depends on what they want the fighting moveset to be about

Joker lost a few abilities like Persona Change
but the main point of his moveset is that he's a quick striker with a bunch of stylish flippy dippy maneuvers

Little Mac can punch very fast in Punch Out but that game is about properly dodging punches, super punches are earned for exploiting weaknesses and he can hardly take a punch from anyone past the minor circuit
In Smash he's this super bruiser that can just throw out powerful sucker punches whenever, and can ignore flinching while he's at it

ARMS at heart is still a boxing game with glove-based gimmicks, so even with alt costumes they won't care if Spring Man is allowed to kick like Min Min or not
cause inevitably the whole point of their character will be about decking you with a mile-long thunder punch, anyway

 

[Smudgy]

I don’t think so. I mean if they made it so the move sets can fit one a another but really it’s unlikey

 

[pupNapoleon]

For the record on this ARMS conversation;


The important thing to remember about Smash, is that it is an artform- the name comes up as much from the relationship to 'bashing' and fighting, as it does to being a mash up of characters and gameplay. Smash Bros is purely a translation. There is a reason that translation gets nominated for many award ceremonies in many art forms- Translation is an artform.

That means taking the game from one medium and turning it into another- and this means everything is at artistic liberty. It is entirely within Sakurai (and the approving companies) vision as to what is or is not all right.

That said- Smash Bros is a platform fighter, which seems to have more in common with 2D fighters than 3D genres. I'm not sure if characters from Street Fighter are really more unique from each other than characters in ARMS- if you get to know the language of either game, of course the nuances stand out, and are offensive to ignore.
However, Street Fighter is closer to a direct translation into Smash Bros, than ARMS is, which means is easier for less would be lost in translation- not inherently that it will happen either way.

 

[VGPhaze]

I stand corrected. Sorry y’all.
I guess I shouldn’t write posts that late at night instead of sleeping like I should be haha.

good point about the paintbrush and spaceship. Totally forgot about those.

you’ve officially changed my mind - I now think the ARMS character palate swaps are not only a significant possibility but the most likely one as well.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Lemme boil it down then

1 of the 3 ARMS fans: Min Min absolutely cannot be an alt costume of Spring Man, she has unique abilities in the game that spring man doesn’t

me: okay that’s a valid point, but a lot of characters lose / gain abilities to be able to work in smash. Like, for example, Joker, who loses the ability to use multiple personas to be able to work feasibly in smash

ARMS fan: but that wouldn’t properly represent the character

me: you could argue joker not using multiple personas doesn’t properly represent the character either. As long as Joker uses his weapons and a persona though, it represents him enough, so as long as the arms character uses their extendo arms, it’ll represent them enough

bro I’m not Sakurai but neither are you. If Sakurai wants ARMS characters as alts then he’s gonna take the creative liberties necessary to make that happen. It’s possible. Yeah, my argument is “this could happen”, why is it a problem? I’m ****ing right, it COULD happen lmao I don’t see how that makes me wrong. I’m arguing about something that’s within the realm of possibility. If you were to argue that the arms character is gonna be Lanky Kong because his arms stretch so it could happen, that’s not something within the realm of possibility, and even tho it’d be ****ing hilarious, it wouldn’t make sense. I’m just arguing that arms characters being alts of each other can make sense. It doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen but it can make sense

I'm aware that this could happen, but I still don't feel the analogy works. Joker is an RPG character with a huge "spell" list among a ton of other things he can do, and Min Min is a character who's kit consists of three weapons specific to her, left and right punch, a deflect kick, the Rush Gague, a buff, and weapons from other characters that can be included to spice up the moveset as necessary. There's not a lot you need to condense here in order to make a functioning moveset. The other thing is that she hails from a fighting game, and so far the fighting game characters have taken great pains to try and be like their home games even to the point of mimicking how you press buttons and how the characters always face their opponent. Now, obviously there won't not be creative liberties (I can't really think of a way you could make right and left punch distinct without it being unwieldy, and of course there's the usual mobility upgrade), but there's little need to do so in order to focus the moveset like you would have to with Joker or Dante.

 

[Perkilator]

I just feel like even if you go the "Conglomerate ARMs" route, Min Min just couldn't due to the fact one of her arms is a literal gun.

I've never played ARMs, so my opinion is probably incorrect, but surely she uses it, no?

Well, I mean, it’s sort of a gun? This was already answered, so I just wanted to throw part of my hat in the ring.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Could you dumb it down to work ala Link's swordbeams that no one remembers that he even has?

Basically, every x amount of times, it fires off a quick beam after she gets a hit in?

Well, no, that's not really how it works in ARMS. You aren't supposed to punch with it, you can, but the laser doesn't fire on contact.

I guess the closest thing I can think of it is the X Bomb, except instead of firing in an X shape it fires just one beam at the person closest to it, and the person who threw it is still attached to the bomb itself.

Moves don't have to work exactly like they did in the source material. They could speed the move up if they wanted. Like Pit's Guardian Orbitars for instance actually have fairly powerful hitboxes in KI:U, but no hitboxes at all in Smash.

If they want to include the dragon head they can just make it work like a beam version of Palutena's Autoreticle, maybe trading a little bit of speed for power.

Well, I mean, it’s sort of a gun? This was already answered, so I just wanted to throw part of my hat in the ring.

I don't think the Dragon ARM is that big of an issue. It's a laser sure, but I doubt it would have much more range than the character's punches already have. Throw in the extra startup of the punch and the ARM's short charge animation and I don't think it would be that broken since it would just trade speed for a more instant and longer hitbox (EDIT: By instant I mean the hitbox just comes into existence rather than traveling across the screen like a normal punch would). It'd be like Zapple except more committal. If all else fails they could just make it the Neutral Special.

 

[Flyboy]

So, I want to shake things up just a little bit by talking about a franchise that I don't often see discussed in terms of Smash (for pretty good reason - no Nintendo presence) and in fact I myself rarely remember to bring up, but every time I think about the potential of it I get super excited.

Dishonored.

I'll admit, I'm not the best at crafting movesets outside of throwing around vague ideas, so the focus of this post isn't going to be on the characters, but rather on what I think could be one of the coolest stages in Smash Bros. history.

First things first, a Dishonored rep would be pretty easy to pick out. Corvo Attano would be the choice as he's the main character of the first game and one of the playable characters in Dishonored 2. That said, all three Dishonored games have awesome characters and protagonists, and as Dishonored 2 is my favorite, I'd LOVE to see Emily Kaldwin make it in as a second rep (as if we'd ever get two...let me dream).

​

Anyway, what inspired me to talk about this and hopefully get a conversation started was that my favorite level in videogames is actually from Dishonored 2 - The Clockwork Mansion.

The Clockwork Mansion is a sinister and ever-changing home of bizarre technologies owned by the brilliant but sadistic inventor Kirin Jindosh. It has many floors, modular rooms that twist and turn to create an impossible maze of gears and gadgets, booby-traps, and clockwork sentries that guard every room in the house. Your mission is to infiltrate this maze-like marvel and rescue someone Jindosh is keeping trapped in a prison deep within the bowels of the mansion, but he's not going to make it easy...

So after some discussion with some friends I realized how cool it would be as a Smash stage! You see, the thing about the Clockwork Mansion is that it has so many rooms and levels, and while a traveling stage is the easy way to do it, I propose a twist: It's a level where you, the fighters, get to control the platform layout as well as what part of the stage you're fighting on, by activating levels and gears that can drastically change the flow of battle. This would lead to plenty of crazy strategies as you bait your opponents into traps like electric floors or the clockwork soldiers, or place walls in front of them, or even completely change what room in the mansion you're fighting in.

It goes without saying that this is a really unusual stage, but I was inspired by the King of Fighters Stadium. It has a completely unique mechanic that makes doing special matches on it an absolute blast, and I think another stage that totally changes the game would be super fun in casual play, even if it'll never be competitive. It's almost a game in and of itself, playing mindgames to trap your opponents. Plus, the levels could even go all the way down to Jindosh's massive machine in the basement, leading to a dangerous, high-risk area if you dare to fight too close to the electric pulses that emanate from it.

Plus, one of the coolest parts of the level is the ambience. Jindosh is cocky, arrogant, and has rigged his entire home with surveillance. He can speak to you from his hideout and taunts you constantly. It'd be so cool if he had tons of lines to commentate on the battle or insult the players, and when you reach his lair those lines stop being broadcast over the intercom and are spoken directly to you.

I know that this wouldn't fly in any way in competitive, obviously, but I think it'd be a fun, unique way to show off one of the coolest levels in gaming in a way that really evokes the nature of the original games. Dishonored is all about choosing how you want to achieve your goals through trickery, deceit, and smart plays in the shadows, and what better way than through a stage that embodies that?

Anyway, I just wanted to bring up Dishonored in Smash. Super unlikely, but I'm sure there are other fans of the franchise on here. What do you think? Got any moveset ideas for Corvo or Emily? Or other stage ideas? Let's talk.

 

[Perkilator]

What do you guys think of this moveset for Euden on Source Gaming?
https://sourcegaming.info/2020/05/08/dream-smasher-euden-midgardsormr-guest-article/