Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Knight Dude]

the lack of axel and neku talk disgusts me

Streets of Rage content would be sick so I'm all for it.

 

[Perkilator]

Streets of Rage content would be sick so I'm all for it.

While I’m in a shilling mood, I think I’ll shill another’s support thread: https://smashboards.com/threads/str...port-thread-streets-of-rage-4-out-now.501063/

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I've seen this comparison made before as well, and it's still not a great representation of the situation.

All that really differentiates the ARMS cast from each other (in gameplay) is a difference in their stats, size, and gimmick. Spring Man, for example, punches in the exact same manner as Ribbon Girl, who punches in the exact manner as Min Min, who punches in the exact same manner as Master Mummy, who punches in the exact same manner as Dr. Coyle. 90% of the moves an ARMS character can perform are shared with the rest of the roster.

Compare with the shotos, who share comparatively little of their kits amongst each other. Ryu punches and kicks in a way different from Akuma, who punches and kicks different from Sakura, who punches and kicks differently from Dan. Even then, the abilities that these characters do share are completely different in appearance and function between the shotos. Even though Ryu and Dan both hadokens, how they do so and the effect those hakodens have are night and day. If the shotos were like the ARMS cast, they'd all perfectly share Ryu's punches, kicks, and specials while having different stats and one unique special each.

I get what people meant hat de-personalizing them sucks, but they're not even comparable to shotoclones either. Those have significantly more differences. It's not even Ryu and Ken in Smash at this point. There's no denying some are more different, but that's more due to bodyshape being different.

The game wasn't really built on having vastly unique characters. It was built on people playing generally the same with a small amount of unique mechanics so they don't play identically. Even Springtron, who has the same build as Spring Man entirely, has a different set of abilities. If you want a better example, it's probably closer to Mario and Luigi in Smash 1, and maybe that's still too different. They have very few differences overall, but still stand out a bit. I'd argue they stand out more than Pit and Dark Pit, though, at least in terms of how they play in Smash. But I feel like the factor is closer to how Dark Samus works, who can perform the same moves as Samus.

That said, it's been pointed out how there's zero plans for any more characters, and a massive emphasis on "this is the six characters" while noting that it's the end of Ultimate's lifespan. Or a heavy implication these six are it without outright saying it. This leads me to believe the echo idea or bonus characters are not remotely happening. If Ribbon Girl were to get in(with Spring Man as the core character), it's alt or nothing. Not that I wouldn't love some Echoes, but even then, Echoes would be most likely announced closer to next year, not this early, when they have still so much to work on. I'd be pleasantly surprised by an Echo pass or any bonus characters, but I don't think they're happening. ...Challenger Pack 5 and 6 being two separate ARMS characters is arguably possible, but I highly highly doubt that.

 

[Glaciacott]

I've seen this comparison made before as well, and it's still not a great representation of the situation.

All that really differentiates the ARMS cast from each other (in gameplay) is a difference in their stats, size, and gimmick. Spring Man, for example, punches in the exact same manner as Ribbon Girl, who punches in the exact manner as Min Min, who punches in the exact same manner as Master Mummy, who punches in the exact same manner as Dr. Coyle. 90% of the moves an ARMS character can perform are shared with the rest of the roster.

Compare with the shotos, who share comparatively little of their kits amongst each other. Ryu punches and kicks in a way different from Akuma, who punches and kicks different from Sakura, who punches and kicks differently from Dan. Even then, the abilities that these characters do share are completely different in appearance and function between the shotos. Even though Ryu and Dan both hadokens, how they do so and the effect those hakodens have are night and day. If the shotos were like the ARMS cast, they'd all perfectly share Ryu's punches, kicks, and specials while having different stats and one unique special each.

This is still cutting Arms short in terms of their animations and characters.

While all punches may look the same, there's still things that differ between each character:
- stances
- skeletons
- movement
- grabs

Spring Man behaves like a boxer while Ribbon Girl is a pop star, Ninjara is a ninja, Min is a martial artist, and so on. As a result their idle animations and the way the behave changes drastically.
The Arms character won't just be throwing punches. They'll also be moving in the air, having taunts, doing flair movement in between specials, having different grabs, etc.

People punching the same doesn't mean they're the same in every other movement. If they did want to go for this Sakurai's team would have to rig extra skeletons and have extra animations for each alt, and once more I ask why that would make any sense when it's far far easier to just have ONE character and give them the arms of other characters.

 

[Cosmic77]

If Ken, Akuma or Sakura can't be alts of Ryu....

I don't think the ARMS character should have alts of others...

If you take away the two special abilities, all ARMS characters are essentially identical to one another. The swappable arms are what really make them stand out, and every arm is available to all fifteen characters.

If Sakurai really wants one of these characters to be an Echo or even a semi-clone, he could do that in the next game. For now though, the only path forward is alts. Obviously some characters like Master Mummy and Max Brass will never be able to be alts due to their size, but I think there other feasible options for Spring Man alts aside from Ribbon Girl.

If it were up to me, I'd take this opportunity. That might mean Min Min would be able to kick and Ninjara wouldn't be able to teleport, but I doubt there are many people who genuinely believe that either of those things would be more unique than a majority of the swappable arms.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If you take away the two special abilities, all ARMS characters are essentially identical to one another. The swappable arms are what really make them stand out, and every arm is available to all fifteen characters.

But they do have these abilities, and these are what makes them stand out. Especially since, as you said, the ARMS are available to all characters.

If Sakurai really wants one of these characters to be an Echo or even a semi-clone, he could do that in the next game. For now though, the only path forward is alts.

The issue with this is that it almost certainly won't happen. Even if the ARMS character makes it into the next game, they're not going to make the alts into separate characters just 'cuz that's how they were before or because they didn't think it was worth the effort, especially if they affect the direction of the moveset. If these characters get turned into alts, that's it. That's all they'll be.

 

[kirbsmash]

At this point, we're just typing out what we think is likely. We kept gong on and on about Arms, there's an chance for everything.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

At this point, we're just typing out what we think is likely. We kept gong on and on about Ar,s, there's an chance for everything.

just 2-3 more weeks, i guess. MAYBE 1 more week if we're lucky and they decide to pull a PP on us making it earlier than expected

 

[snowgolem]

just 2-3 more weeks, i guess. MAYBE 1 more week if we're lucky and they decide to pull a PP on us making it earlier than expected

pretty sure that’s your hopes talking

 

[Twirlerena]

Is it wrong that a part of me wants Waluigi remaining an assist because he's basically the "Loser" of Smash given the fun fanart that mocks him with his supposed loser status?

I just like to think of him as this character that no matter how hard he also tries that he fails to make it into the cast. There's a reason he's comparable to the likes of Robbie Rotten and **** Dastardly (Coincidentally enough they look rather alike).

I strongly disagree with this. He’s my most wanted and favorite character. He needs to get out of that role so I can play as my favorite character in cool games like smash.

 

[chocolatejr9]

the situation with lloyd and yuri is weird
when pass 2 was first formally announced, they were relatively talked about
but for whatever reason they dropped off the face of the earth after arms

Really? Do first-parties hurt them THAT much? I get that competition is tighter now, but dang...

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I can't really blame you cause it seems like everyone started turning on Danganronpa after it got popular recently lol.

It's like the new series people love to hate on and I'm legit afraid what would happen if it got into Smash, which considering Sakurai is a fan of the series and Nintendo and Spike Chunsoft have worked on things before... Isn't too farfetched...

Spike and Nintendo have worked on a lot of projects including Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and some other games. Monokuma is Spikes mascot and is the only character to have appeared in literally every game in some capacity so he isn't as outlandish of a choice as some people think, especially given Danganronpa is popular to the Mystery/Visual Novel fans.

I know some people suggested a Pokemon Mystery Dungeon rep like Grovyle for a "Spike" rep instead but that's still a Pokemon rep in the end and isn't a Geno situation either. I can't think of any other possible series that'd work too well from Spike and Danganronpa is one of their most popular properties so if we get a Spike Chunsoft character, it'd be Monokuma there.

As for its sudden hatred.... DRV3 was a much more accessible Danganronpa game, for better and for worse. It's more or less the fans and not the game itself from personal experience there.

 

[NintenZ]

Spike and Nintendo have worked on a lot of projects including Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and some other games. Monokuma is Spikes mascot and is the only character to have appeared in literally every game in some capacity so he isn't as outlandish of a choice as some people think, especially given Danganronpa is popular to the Mystery/Visual Novel fans.

I know some people suggested a Pokemon Mystery Dungeon rep like Grovyle for a "Spike" rep instead but that's still a Pokemon rep in the end and isn't a Geno situation either. I can't think of any other possible series that'd work too well from Spike and Danganronpa is one of their most popular properties so if we get a Spike Chunsoft character, it'd be Monokuma there.

As for its sudden hatred.... DRV3 was a much more accessible Danganronpa game, for better and for worse. It's more or less the fans and not the game itself from personal experience there.

I would LOVE Danganronpa representation personally and think it's something that fits rather well into Smash but at the same time I'm afraid the fandom will become even worse than it already is at the moment considering that's what happened to Persona before it finally just recently died down when Royal came out.

It's less about my thoughts on the games themselves (UDG is one of my favorite games of all time) and more my fear of how the community will be.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I would LOVE Danganronpa representation personally and think it's something that fits rather well into Smash but at the same time I'm afraid the fandom will become even worse than it already is at the moment considering that's what happened to Persona before it finally just recently died down when Royal came out.

It's less about my thoughts on the games themselves (UDG is one of my favorite games of all time) and more my fear of how the community will be.

Honestly, let's face it: A good chunk of series being requested have fandoms that are like Danganronpa or Persona's. It's sadly gonna be inevitable unless the choices is gonna be super safe.

And Smash fandom isn't innocent in this regard either. Fandom craziness is just about inevitable when it comes to Smash, whether it's from new communities being part of the Smash fandom or the Smash fandom itself.

 

[Mamboo07]

I feel like these 3 are the remaining 1st Party reps:
1. Bandana Dee
2. Dixie Kong
3. Captain Toad

The problem with these characters is that they’re all roughly the same niche. They’re all fairly cutesy characters wearing bright colors. Obviously there’s room for these characters, but they all cut into each other’s popularity. Ones with more specific niches are often louder in some ways. Take Joker, who is a slick rogue with a mask, a demonic winged creature, and elements from P5’s stylish artstyle. He ends up being the more “obvious” pick because we already got Inkling, Isabelle, Piranha Plant, and Banjo & Kazooie. This is also why these characters are always called “base game picks,” because the base game is fine with perceived redundancy because there’s multiple new characters at once.

Rex is the next biggest, and he still gets a lot of talk because of his design, for better or worse. ARMS also gets the benefit of the doubt for the unique character designs.

Thank you for reading this, now move along.

 

[cosmicB]

Which characters do you think are severely slept on in regard to their DLC potential?

Mostly secondary/tertiary company reps that people will forego in place of the most "obvious" ones. Something like a .hack rep, any Capcom rep that isn't Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Ace Attorney or Monster Hunter (so Bionic Commando, Dead Rising, Onimusha, etc), Neku or Crono, Yakuza rep, and that's just off the top of my head.

That said, I think the more obvious company reps would get priority. I just don't think it's impossible that they get passed by for more curveball characters.

I just don't see the appeal to Monokuma. Every time I see a picture of it, I'm just left [visibly confused.]

Have you played Danganronpa? I think a lot of people would miss the appeal if they have no knowledge of the actual character.

We’re rating these characters in RTC next after a few more ARMS characters:
View attachment 272008

Bah, I wish it was just Monokuma. I hate that that stupid "leak" happened so much.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Mostly secondary/tertiary company reps that people will forego in place of the most "obvious" ones. Something like a .hack rep, any Capcom rep that isn't Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Ace Attorney or Monster Hunter (so Bionic Commando, Dead Rising, Onimusha, etc), Neku or Crono, Yakuza rep, and that's just off the top of my head.

That said, I think the more obvious company reps would get priority. I just don't think it's impossible that they get passed by for more curveball characters.



Have you played Danganronpa? I think a lot of people would miss the appeal if they have no knowledge of the actual character.


Bah, I wish it was just Monokuma. I hate that that stupid "leak" happened so much.



Mostly secondary/tertiary company reps that people will forego in place of the most "obvious" ones. Something like a .hack rep, any Capcom rep that isn't Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Ace Attorney or Monster Hunter (so Bionic Commando, Dead Rising, Onimusha, etc), Neku or Crono, Yakuza rep, and that's just off the top of my head.

That said, I think the more obvious company reps would get priority. I just don't think it's impossible that they get passed by for more curveball characters. I'm not sure if I would categorize Banjo as one or not because I feel he's a no brainer for an MS rep a lot more than Chief.



Have you played Danganronpa? I think a lot of people would miss the appeal if they have no knowledge of the actual character.

feel like .hack is a gray area cause didn't it start as an anime? if so, it would be in the same camp as Dragon Ball or Gundam and thus ineligible

 

[BernkastelWitch]

feel like .hack is a gray area cause didn't it start as an anime? if so, it would be in the same camp as Dragon Ball or Gundam and thus ineligible

It's primarily games but the anime was made first essentially as a prequel promotion for the game instead of starting off as an anime. It's multi media franchises.

Which I imagine those may blur the line a bit even though the games were planned first.

 

[Perkilator]

I just had an idea: Boss Raids for the Spirit Board, where players can defeat bosses on the Spirit Board and earn their Spirits if they didn’t in WoL (online not needed). Boss Raids would cycle between the Light Realm bosses and the Dark Realm bosses every now and then (sometimes for Spirit Events), but it mainly cycles between Master and Crazy Hand.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's primarily games but the anime was made first essentially as a prequel promotion for the game instead of starting off as an anime. It's multi media franchises.

Which I imagine those may blur the line a bit even though the games were planned first.

A good way to put it is this is how Lucario got their debut, to promote the games instead.

It's a game first overall, it just had its debut as an anime to promote it. That's the key difference between something that directly stared as another media. It's very common for them to make a media that debuts before their "core" media they're meant to be.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

A good way to put it is this is how Lucario got their debut, to promote the games instead.

It's a game first overall, it just had its debut as an anime to promote it. That's the key difference between something that directly stared as another media. It's very common for them to make a media that debuts before their "core" media they're meant to be.

That's pretty much it. A lot of series are developed as a game first and foremost but sometimes a show or anime is made mid development to promote it.

If we went with the mentality of "If the anime or show came first, even if it was to promote the games it makes it ineligible" then a lot more series would be barred, surprisingly enough.

 

[Gribbo]

That's pretty much it. A lot of series are developed as a game first and foremost but sometimes a show or anime is made mid development to promote it.

If we went with the mentality of "If the anime or show came first, even if it was to promote the games it makes it ineligible" then a lot more series would be barred, surprisingly enough.

And a lot of other series surprisingly wouldn't, like Disney's Cars.

 

[VGPhaze]

Gotta do some shilling...

Everyone knows Little Mac.
but have you met his new friends from Grill Off with Ultra Hand?!
Little Mac joins the fray in ARMS wielding two Ultra Hand weapons allowing his arms to exteeeeend

 

[Perkilator]

This old post from the pre-release days got me thinking…what if Celica was a character in the first Fighter’s Pass instead of Byleth? And her stage was Temple of Mila, but Garreg Mach Monastery still came as a free stand-alone stage for those who have Three Houses?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I just had an idea: Boss Raids for the Spirit Board, where players can defeat bosses on the Spirit Board and earn their Spirits if they didn’t in WoL (online not needed). Boss Raids would cycle between the Light Realm bosses and the Dark Realm bosses every now and then (sometimes for Spirit Events), but it mainly cycles between Master and Crazy Hand.

I'd love to see a boss rush mode outside of that fight in WoL. It would be fun to just go in and see how you fare against them.

Also, it doesn't seem like there's a way to redo that Master Hand fight in WoL either without restarting a new WoL game. Once you did it once, you'll always be able to go back and do the WoL boss rush -> ending, but you can't go back to the Master Hand fight right before it.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I would LOVE Danganronpa representation personally and think it's something that fits rather well into Smash but at the same time I'm afraid the fandom will become even worse than it already is at the moment considering that's what happened to Persona before it finally just recently died down when Royal came out.

It's less about my thoughts on the games themselves (UDG is one of my favorite games of all time) and more my fear of how the community will be.

id be down for some DR in smash.....as long as its not Junko. Not because spoilers but because I just really dont like her

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sakurai's been posting some interesting Pics of the Day recently......

Yup, he’s a Dragonball fan alright. pic.twitter.com/IAYfh255wP

— Dee-Pad (@Destructo_Dan) May 18, 2020

pic.twitter.com/8ZkaqgrjdK

— Dee-Pad (@Destructo_Dan) May 14, 2020

 

[chocolatejr9]

Sakurai's been posting some interesting Pics of the Day recently......

Yup, he’s a Dragonball fan alright. pic.twitter.com/IAYfh255wP

— Dee-Pad (@Destructo_Dan) May 18, 2020

pic.twitter.com/8ZkaqgrjdK

— Dee-Pad (@Destructo_Dan) May 14, 2020

He's just teasing us at this point...

 

[Shroob]

Sakurai's been posting some interesting Pics of the Day recently......

Yup, he’s a Dragonball fan alright. pic.twitter.com/IAYfh255wP

— Dee-Pad (@Destructo_Dan) May 18, 2020

pic.twitter.com/8ZkaqgrjdK

— Dee-Pad (@Destructo_Dan) May 14, 2020

The first one's a clear homage.

The 2nd seems way too generic of a pose tbh.

 

[NintenZ]

Sakurai's been posting some interesting Pics of the Day recently......

Yup, he’s a Dragonball fan alright. pic.twitter.com/IAYfh255wP

— Dee-Pad (@Destructo_Dan) May 18, 2020

pic.twitter.com/8ZkaqgrjdK

— Dee-Pad (@Destructo_Dan) May 14, 2020

I swear on my life if zoomers use this as an argument to justify THAT then idk what to do....

 

[cmbsfm]

Sakurai's been posting some interesting Pics of the Day recently......

Yup, he’s a Dragonball fan alright. pic.twitter.com/IAYfh255wP

— Dee-Pad (@Destructo_Dan) May 18, 2020

pic.twitter.com/8ZkaqgrjdK

— Dee-Pad (@Destructo_Dan) May 14, 2020

What about the father son kamehameha homage with Three and Eleven?

 

[MisterHollywood]

This is still cutting Arms short in terms of their animations and characters.

While all punches may look the same, there's still things that differ between each character:
- stances
- skeletons
- movement
- grabs

Spring Man behaves like a boxer while Ribbon Girl is a pop star, Ninjara is a ninja, Min is a martial artist, and so on. As a result their idle animations and the way the behave changes drastically.
The Arms character won't just be throwing punches. They'll also be moving in the air, having taunts, doing flair movement in between specials, having different grabs, etc.

People punching the same doesn't mean they're the same in every other movement. If they did want to go for this Sakurai's team would have to rig extra skeletons and have extra animations for each alt, and once more I ask why that would make any sense when it's far far easier to just have ONE character and give them the arms of other characters.

Olimar and Alph have completely different personalities in their games but Sakurai resorted to them being silent no-personality ass ******* because they both use Pikmin. Even though they definitely have unique traits and hell, even unique Pikmin, they fight EXACTLY the same. Each of the Koopalings have unique and distinct personalities and yet they all have the same practical personalities in Smash. I’m not saying ARMS will 100% sure get 1 character with a bunch of Alt Costumes but the idea isn’t as outlandish as you’re making it out to be

 

[Will]

Sakurai's been posting some interesting Pics of the Day recently......

Yup, he’s a Dragonball fan alright. pic.twitter.com/IAYfh255wP

— Dee-Pad (@Destructo_Dan) May 18, 2020

pic.twitter.com/8ZkaqgrjdK

— Dee-Pad (@Destructo_Dan) May 14, 2020

I swear on my life if zoomers use this as an argument to justify THAT then idk what to do....

Actually, an earlier Pic of the Day references the Father-Son Kamehameha with Luminary and Erdrick.

I don't have it on me but people here will probably remember now that I mentioned it.

 

[VGPhaze]

Olimar and Alph have completely different personalities in their games but Sakurai resorted to them being silent no-personality ass ******* because they both use Pikmin. Even though they definitely have unique traits and hell, even unique Pikmin, they fight EXACTLY the same. Each of the Koopalings have unique and distinct personalities and yet they all have the same practical personalities in Smash. I’m not saying ARMS will 100% sure get 1 character with a bunch of Alt Costumes but the idea isn’t as outlandish as you’re making it out to be

Olimar and Alph control exactly the same way in Pikmin though and even have the same/very similar idles. While I do wish their silly voices were in Smash, I don’t think they’re misrepresented at all. I’m more disappointed that Louie, President, Brittany and Charlie aren’t also alts than I am that Alph isn’t an echo - even though him being one with Rock pikmin instead of purple would be lit.

the Koopalings are all piloting the exact same vehicle in this game. If they weren’t inside the clown car and all played exactly the same it would be weird and feel strange, but it works because of the clown car.

All of the dragon quest protagonists have access to the same spells and wield swords and could theoretically be outfitted to have the exact same move-set in their games for the most part.

Even if the Arms characters do play similarly in their source game there are things canonically that some do and others simply can’t, which makes the alternate costume misrepresentation argument valid. The other alt examples I listed don’t have this problem imo.
Spring Man doesn’ t have martial arts training like MinMin and probably couldn’t pull off her acrobatic kick. MinMin can’t teleport like Ninjara. Ninjara can’t jump four times in the air like Ribbon Girl. Ribbon Girl can’t create shockwaves of pure determination when charging or whatever ridiculous thing Spring Man does. Unless they made the Arms character as generic as possible and omitted all special characteristics, those inconsistencies would feel strange with alts. Even if they did keep them generic with a move set they could all cannonically pull off, MinMin doing Spring Man’s idle animation would look a little off to anyone who played ARMS a lot.

Ness can’t do PK starstorm in Earthbound, and they made sure to explain that he was taught the move by Poo specifically for Smash in a trophy description - so the team clearly cares a great deal about representing the fighters the best that they can if they went as far to explain away an inconsistency that only hardcore Mother fans would tune into and probably wouldn’t even care much about if they did pick up on it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

ah
i see it is character shilling o'clock

It is?!

Well okay then:

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

All of the dragon quest protagonists have access to the same spells and wield swords and could theoretically be outfitted to have the exact same move-set in their games for the most part.

...They do not have access to the same spells, no. They all theoretically could use any spell anyway just like Ness could use PK Thunder plausibly cause he's a PSI user.

What they did is pool all the plausible spells they wanted, whether the specific Hero could access them or not, and put them into the moveset to show off the general magic of DQ. In fact, finding someone who can do ever spell listed might be impossible outside of maybe Slime at most, but some of those spells are after Dragon Quest Monsters(Joker aside, maybe), so not even then. They're all a Ness situation in using magic/PSI they cannot learn.

 

[DarthEnderX]

All of the dragon quest protagonists have access to the same spells and wield swords and could theoretically be outfitted to have the exact same move-set in their games for the most part.

That's...not even remotely accurate. Half the spells on the spell list didn't even exist in DQ3 and 4.

 

[ZephyrZ]

the Koopalings are all piloting the exact same vehicle in this game. If they weren’t inside the clown car and all played exactly the same it would be weird and feel strange, but it works because of the clown car.

This is mostly true, but there is one specific move that is really weird on the Koopalings.

It's also worth noting that Alph uses Olimar's space ship for his final Smash, despite his ship being shaped way different.

Of course both moves are final smashes so they could just be "exceptions", but they're still really weird.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

All of the dragon quest protagonists have access to the same spells and wield swords and could theoretically be outfitted to have the exact same move-set in their games for the most part.

I just played through DQ8.

Psyche Up is a mechanic only in 8, and several moves like frizz and woosh can't be learned by the name hero.

 

[Shroob]

I just feel like even if you go the "Conglomerate ARMs" route, Min Min just couldn't due to the fact one of her arms is a literal gun.

I've never played ARMs, so my opinion is probably incorrect, but surely she uses it, no?