Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

If today we get a new spirit event, I'm feeling Silent Hill.

I really want that Pyramid Head spirit fight lol.

I still feel we may get a SEGA Spirit event.

Either Sakura Wars or Streets Of Rage.

 

[PeridotGX]

May I please see that? I’m curious.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SHsfgsmJSz4bzKKAOygGQqsZRhE-YY6ZaZ7FkHZG_-I/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That said, we did end up getting Banjo-Kazooie into Smash; and that series has been super inactive as well.

...This would be the case if they weren't a core part of Rare Replay and heavily advertised. The product is active, just as part of a bigger one. I wouldn't even call it inactive since that's misleading too. It's active. Super active, no. It doesn't get any new games either like Mario does.

That's why it was so damn easy for Microsoft to say yes. They get advertising for Banjo-Kazooie, the games they want people to play(which is made directly clear when Sakurai literally advertises Microsoft during the direct. How are you advertising product that is not active?). Minecraft stuff and Fan Demand also play an important role in their own way. You'd need both as is to even get as far to ask for BK. At least in this context.

 

[SmashChu]

You’re missing the point here. Hype is subjective anyway. Being from Nintendo does not objectively make a pick more hype than a 3rd party one. Being 3rd party does not make a character objectively hype over a 1st party. More groundbreaking in the industry? Yes. More hype? Debatable.

What I'm disagreeing is the subjective part. There is what each individual person likes and that's one thing. Then there is this hype culture that has developed around Smash Brothers particularly with Ultimate. People assume that they can add literally anything into Smash so all characters were possible. This is what fueled the expectations (not the Grinch leak, or box theory or any of the other irrelevant things you brought up). There were two threads on 4Chan the other day asking why there were fewer Smash threads, and the answer everyone gave was "Byleth and ARMS." But the reason these characters caused people to be less hype (or to say it put a wet towel on people's excitement) was because they crush people's hope. Now the "endless possibilities" didn't seem so endless.

I think where your missing the point is in it's simplicity. Yes, what people get excited for is subjective. That's obvious. Everyone understands it and it doesn't bear mentioning. What you are missing is this greater picture. The expectations have been centered around third party characters for over a year. Go look at any predictions video for either fighter pass and it's a ton of third party characters. Go look at Papageno's speculation videos and it's almost entirely centered on third party characters. So when you say "Oh well Master Chief might be disappointing for some people" you aren't reading the room.

So what I'm saying (and where I disagree) is there is a "hype" culture that exist for this game, so it's not as simple "some people will like this character."

For what’s its worth, no disrespect here, but you also cited licensing issues as to why Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man would be the only 3rd parties in Ultimate. We now have 3x as many 3rd parties, and here we are.

Not sure what the purpose of bringing this up is. Also, I'm assuming you meant Smash 4 and not Ultimate.

Regardless, consider this: everyone said that the first fighter pass was going to be all third party characters. The Nintendo adds Byleth. Then surely the second pass with be tons of third party characters. And we get ARMS. Don't fall into that trap

 

[chocolatejr9]

Would it necessarily have to be SquareEnix doing the remake? I doubt Nintendo would care enough either, but I wonder if they could just get the rights to do the remake, and then do it.

Heck, if SquareEnix isn't going to do a thing with these characters, then Nintendo could probably do something fun with them if they just bought them. Even if they just got stuck in spin-off heck like everyone else. It'd be better than the abyss they're in now anyway.

For better or worse, Nintendo don't buy other properties very often, unlike Sony and Microsoft. Which is a shame, because I think companies like IntSys and Camelot would actually benefit from an acquisition, if you can believe it.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think a lot of people either disregard relevancy completely because of characters like K. Rool or focus on it so much that they make it sound practically impossible for any irrelevant character to get in.

Personally, I think people should trying looking at this from the middle ground. Obviously relevancy matters to an extent. It took a lot of hard work and dedication for the K. Rool fans to keep their voices heard over the years, and that was all for a character who's from an extremely iconic Nintendo franchise. Then there's also Sakurai himself saying things that indicate that adding characters who people will recognize is a personal goal of his, as seen by his statements about Takumaru and Piranha Plant. That being said, relevancy doesn't decide everything. Banjo hasn't done much this decade, but despite the number of other more iconic, more active Microsoft properties, Nintendo opted for the niche and irrelevant bear who fans were practically begging for. If fans are vocal enough, Sakurai/Nintendo may be willing to overlook some things.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

For better or worse, Nintendo don't buy other properties very often, unlike Sony and Microsoft. Which is a shame, because I think companies like IntSys and Camelot would actually benefit from an acquisition, if you can believe it.

There's no reason to buy them when the only games make are exclusive anyways, I am prettysure in fact Intelligent Systems has had single every game they ever made publish by Nintendo.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

For better or worse, Nintendo don't buy other properties very often, unlike Sony and Microsoft. Which is a shame, because I think companies like IntSys and Camelot would actually benefit from an acquisition, if you can believe it.

It'd be great if Nintendo bought Banjo back.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It'd be great if Nintendo bought Banjo back.

I'd bet that'd be way more difficult to arrange than for Geno though. Microsoft could still be planning to use him in future endeavors (We'd likely hear about that at around 2021-2023). In the meantime, Banjo & Kazooie are in Super Smash Bros., and there's a decent chance they'll never leave.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Here in Spain he is called Hans or Hanz.

Quite an interesting change ngl.

Oh Hans!

 

[Deleted member]

No Spirit event today

【トーナメントイベント】
5/15(金)から3日間、「シビれる強さ！ 電撃トーナメント」を開催！ 電気属性の必殺ワザを使うファイターのみ出場でき、勝ち進むほど豪華なスピリッツが手に入ります。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/1aF84LH8dp

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) May 13, 2020

Just a tournament themed about lightning.

 

[Icedragonadam]

No Spirit event today

【トーナメントイベント】
5/15(金)から3日間、「シビれる強さ！ 電撃トーナメント」を開催！ 電気属性の必殺ワザを使うファイターのみ出場でき、勝ち進むほど豪華なスピリッツが手に入ります。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/1aF84LH8dp

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) May 13, 2020

Just a tournament themed about lightning.

You know what this means right?

Spoiler

Lion-O confirmed for FP7.

 

[Droodle]

Damn we all forgot about all the irrelevant characters that keep getting in huh

Uh, where are you getting that Microsoft wants to get a better presence in Japan? And how would including a character they don't make games for in Smash help them?

Also, what does Nintendo have to gain aside from DLC cash? Microsoft already announced they won't be putting more games on Nintendo consoles on the foreseeable future.

Any explanation that makes Banjo any different from any other wanted character falls flat on its face, it's just fanservice plain and simple.

Microsoft has gone on repeatedly stating their presence in the eastern market isn't where they want to be (they've discussed potentially establishing/buying a new Japanese subsidiary that'll help them develop games for the eastern market). So to me it makes a lot of sense that they would want to improve their relationship with Nintendo considering that they dominate that marketplace. And unlike Sony, Microsoft has pretty much stopped doing X-box exclusives too (going multi platform on Xbox/PC right of the bat). This way even if their consoles aren't insanely successful in Japan, they can still put their lower graphical capacity games on the Switch and hope for some level of success.

Nintendo also improves their relationship with Microsoft (for future Smash characters/games/things of that nature). The good/improving relationship between Microsoft is the reason why games like Ori or Cuphead have made it onto the Switch (even if their improving relationship isn't solely due to Smash); there's a reason why Microsoft isn't putting them on the PS4.

And I never stated that Banjo-Kazooie in Smash wasn't fan-service, Banjo got in because of fan-demand. But stating that an inactive character/series like Banjo didn't have other reasons for joining Smash apart from fan-demand is a pretty naive way of looking at things. There are a ton of characters that have fan-demand backing them up, yet are not playable

...This would be the case if they weren't a core part of Rare Replay and heavily advertised. The product is active, just as part of a bigger one. I wouldn't even call it inactive since that's misleading too. It's active. Super active, no. It doesn't get any new games either like Mario does.

That's why it was so damn easy for Microsoft to say yes. They get advertising for Banjo-Kazooie, the games they want people to play(which is made directly clear when Sakurai literally advertises Microsoft during the direct. How are you advertising product that is not active?). Minecraft stuff and Fan Demand also play an important role in their own way. You'd need both as is to even get as far to ask for BK. At least in this context.

While Rare Replay is technically a new game; it's still for the most part just ports of Rare's previous works. It's not a full new game, or even a new appearance for Banjo Kazooie, but rather their games just got ported to the Xbox One and sold as a compilation rather then individually. If we're going by that metric, then Golden Sun is still an active series because the Golden Sun: Lost Age came out on August 6th, 2015; 2 days after rare replay. SMRPG also technically got ported in 2017 for the SNES mini. Yet I'm pretty sure that the common sentiment on this board is that Isaac and Geno are inactive characters.

 

[Trevenant]

No Spirit event today

【トーナメントイベント】
5/15(金)から3日間、「シビれる強さ！ 電撃トーナメント」を開催！ 電気属性の必殺ワザを使うファイターのみ出場でき、勝ち進むほど豪華なスピリッツが手に入ります。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/1aF84LH8dp

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) May 13, 2020

Just a tournament themed about lightning.

I guess final fantasy is getting more representation after all. This is much more likely to be a hint than it is a tourney and that goes quite a long way considering it's confirmed to be a tourney.

 

[Dinoman96]

I just think the simple answer is that Banjo is far and away far more popular than most of these other forgotten characters. Like the first Banjo-Kazooie outsold the entire Golden Sun franchise.

 

[Schnee117]

Uh, where are you getting that Microsoft wants to get a better presence in Japan?.

Phil Spencer is on record having said he find Xbox's position in Japan "unacceptable" and has made frequent trips there. They've revealed and showcased plenty of Japanese IPs at their events including Yakuza, Code Vein, Dragon Ball, Tales of Arise and Vesperia, Devil May Cry 5, Phantasy Star Online 2 and several FromSoft titles. They've launched Gamepass in Japan and have used the program to promote Japanese IPs like Final Fantasy and Yakuza.

And how would including a character they don't make games for in Smash help them?

Sakurai saying "give the game (Banjo-Kazooie) a try on Xbox" for one.
Xbox was trending in Japan on Twitter because of this

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

While Rare Replay is technically a new game; it's still for the most part just ports of Rare's previous works. It's not a full new game, or even a new appearance for Banjo Kazooie, but rather their games just got ported to the Xbox One and sold as a compilation rather then individually. If we're going by that metric, then Golden Sun is still an active series because the Golden Sun: Lost Age came out on August 6th, 2015; 2 days after rare replay. SMRPG also technically got ported in 2017 for the SNES mini. Yet I'm pretty sure that the common sentiment on this board is that Isaac and Geno are inactive characters.

Rare Replay is still an active and advertised product. For 5 years straight. Those are very different situations here.

It doesn't mean much that it's a port. What matters is how it's used. Let's be real; the SNES Mini is barely advertised to this day. It got a bit, and then that was it. It's not even comparable to how much Rare Replay is pushed. Nor is Golden Sun's quick Virtual Console ports. Those had little attention too.

So no, I don't find the analogy good because they're much smaller products in the grand scheme of things. One's a major DLC compilation that is consistently an advertised product for 5 years straight. Two of them are a quick VC release with no real bells and whistles, bar a simple quick announcement. And the last one was a cool Mini product that got a little attention for a bit, and then kind of didn't much matter. People talked about it, sure, but that's because the SNES is notable in itself. The company however didn't push it that much.

Basically apples(Rare Replay), Oranges(SNES Mini), and Grapes(VC releases). Generally, VC releases do not get a ton of advertising put towards them. Just generally a one-shot announcement and that's it. Nintendo only really advertises major releases constantly, but not actual compilations that often. They should, but they really don't. Microsoft likes to keep advertising their product, constantly, whether it's a compilation or not.

 

[Perkilator]

No Spirit event today

【トーナメントイベント】
5/15(金)から3日間、「シビれる強さ！ 電撃トーナメント」を開催！ 電気属性の必殺ワザを使うファイターのみ出場でき、勝ち進むほど豪華なスピリッツが手に入ります。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/1aF84LH8dp

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) May 13, 2020

Just a tournament themed about lightning.

Okay, so I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess these will be the Fighters:

 

[Trevenant]

Okay, so I’m gonna go out on a limb and guess these will be the Fighters:

There are a few characters with electric effects on their attack s which could be considered. Maybe the Gunner too?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Rare Replay is still an active and advertised product. For 5 years straight. Those are very different situations here.

Rare Replay isn't a Banjo-Kazooie game though. Banjo & Kazooie may spearhead it, but that doesn't really count as their franchise being active. Like, Spyro spearheaded Skylanders, but you can't really say that his series was active until the Spyro Reignited Trilogy was released (and even then it's going to need a new game in a year or two to keep that status).

I'd say that at best, the Banjo-Kazooie series is in port purgatory with the likes of Ōkami.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Rare Replay isn't a Banjo-Kazooie game though. Banjo & Kazooie may spearhead it, but that doesn't really count as their franchise being active. Like, Spyro spearheaded Skylanders, but you can't really say that his series was active until the Spyro Reignited Trilogy was released (and even then it's going to need a new game in a year or two to keep that status).

I'd say that at best, the Banjo-Kazooie series is in port purgatory with the likes of Ōkami.

Except it's a key part of the product and advertised directly as such.

Skylanders isn't a Spyro game, he's more like an honorary star of the game. That's more like Banjo in Diddy Kong Racing instead for a comparison.

Rare Replay is full of active and used products, constantly advertised and all.

 

[andree123]

【お知らせ】
『大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ SPECIAL』の壁紙をご用意しましたので、ご活用ください。
※画像の加工や営利目的の利用、再配布はご遠慮ください。#スマブラSP #壁紙 pic.twitter.com/UvSLRQC3tI

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) May 13, 2020

Hey guys, check out these new smash ultimate wallpapers.

 

[Perkilator]

【お知らせ】
『大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ SPECIAL』の壁紙をご用意しましたので、ご活用ください。
※画像の加工や営利目的の利用、再配布はご遠慮ください。#スマブラSP #壁紙 pic.twitter.com/UvSLRQC3tI

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) May 13, 2020

Hey guys, check out these new smash ultimate wallpapers.

Eh. The second one at least made a good wallpaper for my laptop.

 

[Ben Holt]

You know what this means right?

Spoiler

Lion-O confirmed for FP7.

Pulseman. That'd be a great dark horse pick.

 

[SnowClaws]

You know what this means right?

Spoiler

Lion-O confirmed for FP7.

My boy Itsuki from Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE Encore is in.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Except it's a key part of the product and advertised directly as such.

I wouldn't exactly call 1/10 of of game a key part.

 

[Perkilator]

You know what this means right?

Spoiler

Lion-O confirmed for FP7.

Pfft, please. We all now this means Toxtricity.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I wouldn't exactly call 1/10 of of game a key part.

The product is literally a bunch of games together. What do you know, every single one is key to it. They're all equally important in the end. However, if you want to get technically, they specifically advertise the characters like mascots, so every Banjo game on there is 1/10nth of it. Nonetheless, they're all extremely important to it.

To call Banjo-Kazooie not active is ridiculous. It's clearly active as a product.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

【お知らせ】
『大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ SPECIAL』の壁紙をご用意しましたので、ご活用ください。
※画像の加工や営利目的の利用、再配布はご遠慮ください。#スマブラSP #壁紙 pic.twitter.com/UvSLRQC3tI

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) May 13, 2020

Hey guys, check out these new smash ultimate wallpapers.

Nintendo's social media accounts just seem to dump a bunch of wallpaper for some reason

https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1260374357068509184?s=20

https://twitter.com/ARMS_Cobutter/status/1260374199790702592?s=20

https://twitter.com/SplatoonJP/status/1260374700519112704?s=20

https://twitter.com/XenobladeJP/status/1260374199262228481?s=20

 

[Deleted member]

【お知らせ】
『大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ SPECIAL』の壁紙をご用意しましたので、ご活用ください。
※画像の加工や営利目的の利用、再配布はご遠慮ください。#スマブラSP #壁紙 pic.twitter.com/UvSLRQC3tI

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) May 13, 2020

Hey guys, check out these new smash ultimate wallpapers.

That first one may end up spawning a good amount of memes

 

[Perkilator]

That first one may end up spawning a good amount of memes

Spoiler: Edit: ended up making another one

OH MY GOD YOU’RE RIGHT

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

However, if you want to get technically, they specifically advertise the characters like mascots, so every Banjo game on there is 1/10nth of it.

No. Each individual game is 1/30 of the entire package. The fact that they're used as the collection's mascot doesn't inflate this number nor does this change the fact that all three are ports. The series is in port purgatory, and will be until there is a new remake or full game.

 

[Goombaic]

Spoiler: Nemesis

I couldn't think of a character that could represent Barry, so just imagine you literally fight him.

I think Resident Evil has more than enough content that it could bring even with the spirit event much like Pokemon, but it isn't a series I really want in the game so I'll just leave it off with this.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hey guys, check out these new smash ultimate wallpapers.

So these are like, safe wallpapers? No viruses? And they're free? Sweet!

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler: Nemesis

I couldn't think of a character that could represent Barry, so just imagine you literally fight him.

I think Resident Evil has more than enough content that it could bring even with the spirit event much like Pokemon, but it isn't a series I really want in the game so I'll just leave it off with this.

I would love to have Nemesis in Smash because his theme in the original RE3 is freaking awesome:

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

That first one may end up spawning a good amount of memes

100% sure that first one was made to be edited

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No. Each individual game is 1/30 of the entire package. The fact that they're used as the collection's mascot doesn't inflate this number nor does this change the fact that all three are ports. The series is in port purgatory, and will be until there is a new remake or full game.

So an active product even then. Cause that doesn't make it less active in total. It can be 1/100th of a product, but it's still massively advertised as part of the product. The reason people know who Banjo is these days outside of those lucky to grow up with the new games is because of Rare Replay. They clearly are keeping him active.

I prefer the term life support, but that's misleading too. He's gotten merchandise recently too, to help further coincide with the Smash DLC. So in the end, an active character. It'd be nice if they got new games, but Microsoft wants to keep 'em in the spotlight for now. Also, if you pay attention to the Rare Replay advertisements, Banjo-Kazooie is one of the ones more heavily focused on. That actually matters. They clearly think they're important to focus on, and I can't blame them either. They're gaming icons(a bit more niche than some) and help sell the product as a whole, while being an important part of it. If not one of the most important parts of it.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Challenger Pack for The Farmer from Story of Seasons AKA Harvest Moon!

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Imagine if next week (or the other one) event is from 2K games with spirits of Mini Daddy (Bioshock), Psycho (Borderlands) and someone from X-COM 2.

 

[Mamboo07]

OH MY GOD YOU’RE RIGHT
View attachment 271575

YES, ME TOO!

Spoiler: Another one here