Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[cmbsfm]

Isaac would be a pretty sweet reveal partly because it would be a nice a blindside. His support kinda died down after his assist trophy was shown off.

 

[Will]

And yes. They can tone down the violence, but i think it being banned in japan will affectits prospects.

I swear to Ed Boone if I had a dollar for every time someone says MK is banned in Japan, I could get like, 60 McNuggets from McDonalds.

 

[NintenZ]

Isaac would be a pretty sweet reveal partly because it would be a nice a blindside. His support kinda died down after his assist trophy was shown off.

It's really funny to me

Every speculation cycle Isaac has been considered a "Lock" despite having nothing going in his favor (And actually having more things AGAINST him) because he's a popular character.

This is the first speculation cycle since Brawl not to have him be highly speculated. (And yes I'm counting this and base game speculation as different)

 

[Koopaul]

I wouldn't really say Spring Man getting in changes the calculus of those fighters getting in. You still have to individually assess the chances of all the fighters and where they individually come from. Like, nothing changes for those characters and they all had other independent reasons for not making it in whereas ARMS' problem was just bad timing (same for Rex). Like, sure, at best it shows that they're willing to do upgrades, but it's not like Golden Sun's situation has changed at all in the last couple years and he isn't really any more likely outside of the fact he might have maybe had an extra opportunity for consideration (which applies broadly to literally everything already in the game by Summer 2019).

Pretty much this. ARMS is an exception to the rule. ARMS was still in development when they were working on Smash. Isaac, Rayman, Waluigi, Shantae, and other characters were not. They could have made those characters into fighters if they wanted to, but they decided not to.

And yes, I'm including Spirits. ARMS has a "late to the party" excuse for why they are Spirits, costumes, and an Assist. ARMS had no other choice, at the time that was the only way to put ARMS into the game. The other Assist and Spirits had a choice. And they chose to make them Spirits and Assists.

 

[Dinoman96]

Honestly I just wonder how many votes Isaac even got on the ballot.

Like he has been a consistently popular and talked about choice in the vocal Smash community since Brawl (at least before being AT'd in Ultimate), and yet in time for the ballot, all he could muster was the return of his assist trophy, which was conspicuously absent in Smash 4. Whereas guys like Simon, K. Rool, Ridley and Banjo & Kazooie all came home with the gold.

This is the first speculation cycle since Brawl not to have him be highly speculated. (And yes I'm counting this and base game speculation as different)

Well, Ultimate was the first time Isaac got AT'd in a game with DLC support. Like I said above, his AT being absent in Smash 4 gave some hope for Isaac supporters during the ballot era.

 

[Item box]

Oh definitely:

It really made a difference honestly.

It's such a simple fix too.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I mean the fact Isaac's Assist Trophy came back at all should be an indication of Isaac's popularity considering he's pretty much the only Assist Trophy besides Gray Fox, who was cut for obvious reason, to come back in a future title after being initially cut. People want to know how well Isaac did? There's your answer and that's not an insult considering that is a pretty big movement considering how much Golden Sun absolutely cratered after Brawl with Dark Dawn

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I feel like "X character is an exception" is becoming the new goalpost moving...

It's such a simple fix too.

Even as obviously amateurish as this is, it's still way better.

 

[Koopaul]

Krystal also became an Assist Trophy. I believe that characters on the ballot that were popular but not popular enough became Assists Instead.

 

[Dinoman96]

I mean the fact Isaac's Assist Trophy came back at all should be an indication of Isaac's popularity considering he's pretty much the only Assist Trophy besides Gray Fox, who was cut for obvious reason, to come back in a future title after being initially cut. People want to know how well Isaac did? There's your answer and that's not an insult considering that is a pretty big movement considering how much Golden Sun absolutely cratered after Brawl with Dark Dawn

Sure, but that indicates that he wasn't popular enough to be prioritised as a full blown playable character, as we saw with K. Rool, Ridley and Banjo. Which unfortunately kinda shows that the character and series just isn't as big as Isaac supporters thought.

Though, maybe if Ultimate had more than just six non-echo newcomers, things could of been different...

 

[Item box]

I feel like "X character is an exception" is becoming the new goalpost moving...


Even as obviously amateurish as this is, it's still way better.

All I did was use the faces already in the game, which makes it even easier.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

The reason I don't think Shadow got in could be related to three factors:

1. SEGA's strict policies on how the Sonic brand is used could've led to the character being dropped.
2. Sonic's unpopularity in Japan could've led to him being dismissed.
3. Sakurai isn't really the biggest Sonic fan in general lol.

I still firmly believe Sakurai at least considered Shadow as an Echo Fighter but felt it wouldn't do him justice. Ken made sense as he is a Ryu clone in majority of the games but with slight differences. The way Sonic fights would clash with Shadow's personality, which could lead to him being a sort of semi-clone but at the end of it, dropping the idea completely due to too many issues to hop over.

Shadow was always promoted heavily in Brawl and Smash 4 (even more than Tails), so I don't think he was denied a chance for being unpopular

 

[Rie Sonomura]

All I did was use the faces already in the game, which makes it even easier.

So those textures are unused, or...? If so that’s a shame

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So those textures are unused, or...? If so that’s a shame

No, I'm pretty sure they're used, just not during those animations

 

[osby]

So those textures are unused, or...? If so that’s a shame

Facial animations in Ultimate can be weird. Bayo and Incineroar still don't do any expressions during their Screen KOs (they're unintentionally pretty funny).

 

[Item box]

Yeah they're used, the frowny mouth is used during his missed grab and forward throw.

 

[Cosmic77]

Until Issac reaches Ridley or K. Rool levels of support, I can't say for certain that he'll be able to overcome his obscurity.

He's sort of like Geno in the sense that he has a lot of support, but that support is one of the only things going for him. Also makes it worse that Isaac comes from a franchise unrepresented on the roster. At least Geno is able to latch on to a successful franchise, and that franchise is the most iconic one Nintendo owns no less. Isaac has to rely on his own franchise's merit, which is tough when you pit it against other more relevant/iconic IPs.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

All I did was use the faces already in the game, which makes it even easier.

Oh. I thought you Photoshopped the mouth yourself. That just makes things even more sad.

The way Sonic fights would clash with Shadow's personality, which could lead to him being a sort of semi-clone but at the end of it, dropping the idea completely due to too many issues to hop over.

He definitely shouldn't be a hit and run zoner character, though I think just slowing him down could achieve this effect. Change a few moves, and I think he'd be fine as an Echo Fighter. They could alternatively go all the way for him, but I don't think Echo Fighter status would be a disservice to him unless they stick him in the "I don't really add anything mechanically interesting to the game" club ().

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I notice plenty of folks don't expect an Gen 8 Pokemon in the Pass as seen in the Rate Their Chances based on the Spirit Board/Event it got.

Two things.

1. Those were only for an couple of Pokemon. None of those being the final evolution starters and such so Urshifu? Toxtricity? Gen 8 Final evolution Starters? Still on the table. As you should also know Pokemon as of currently has nearly 900 Pokemon.
2. Pokemon is Nintendo's most popular and profitable franchise. They are definitely not missing out on the opportunity. They also don't call Pokemon the biggest media franchise of all time.

 

[slrigeigdew]

Pretty much this. ARMS is an exception to the rule. ARMS was still in development when they were working on Smash. Isaac, Rayman, Waluigi, Shantae, and other characters were not. They could have made those characters into fighters if they wanted to, but they decided not to.

And yes, I'm including Spirits. ARMS has a "late to the party" excuse for why they are Spirits, costumes, and an Assist. ARMS had no other choice, at the time that was the only way to put ARMS into the game. The other Assist and Spirits had a choice. And they chose to make them Spirits and Assists.

I do find it weird that ARMS got the whole nine yards with an Assist trophy, spirits and mii costumes despite being "late to the party". You could say "well Sakurai didn't expect to get a second fighter pass" but that doesn't really explain why there isn't any ARMS music or why Rex only got a mii costume but no Assist trophy.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Pretty much this. ARMS is an exception to the rule. ARMS was still in development when they were working on Smash. Isaac, Rayman, Waluigi, Shantae, and other characters were not. They could have made those characters into fighters if they wanted to, but they decided not to.

And yes, I'm including Spirits. ARMS has a "late to the party" excuse for why they are Spirits, costumes, and an Assist. ARMS had no other choice, at the time that was the only way to put ARMS into the game. The other Assist and Spirits had a choice. And they chose to make them Spirits and Assists.

If it is Spring Man, he's the only exceptional assist trophy I can see being promoted given he was considered for Base roster.

That said with this exception, I find Spirits more likely to be promoted.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I do find it weird that ARMS got the whole nine yards with an Assist trophy, spirits and mii costumes despite being "late to the party". You could say "well Sakurai didn't expect to get a second fighter pass" but that doesn't really explain why there isn't any ARMS music or why Rex only got a mii costume but no Assist trophy.

Cause they were saving the music for a potential DLC inclusion. Xenoblade 2 has music in base so I personally wouldn’t count on Rex in a pass, but since all pass-based DLC comes with music and a stage (and POSSIBLY also a spirit board)...

Individual DLC doesn’t have any of those things and thus far the only individual DLC we’ve seen is Piranha Plant

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Isaac will only get in once people learn how to spell his damn name correctly

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I notice plenty of folks don't expect an Gen 8 Pokemon in the Pass as seen in the Rate Their Chances based on the Spirit Board/Event it got.

Two things.

1. Those were only for an couple of Pokemon. None of those being the final evolution starters and such so Urshifu? Toxtricity? Gen 8 Final evolution Starters? Still on the table.
2. Pokemon is Nintendo's most popular and profitable franchise. They are definitely not missing out on the opportunity. They also don't call Pokemon the biggest media franchise of all time.

I don't disagree with you but I also hope they don't go for it, lest Pokémon becomes the new Fire Emblem (especially if it's Cylarex, or even more especially if it's Urshifu).

Cause they were saving the music for a potential DLC inclusion. Xenoblade 2 has music in base so I personally wouldn’t count on Rex in a pass, but since all pass-based DLC comes with music and a stage (and POSSIBLY also a spirit board)...

Implying Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has no more notable music tracks to add.

 

[Deleted member]

Isaac will only get in once people learn how to spell his damn name correctly

Here in Spain he is called Hans or Hanz.

Quite an interesting change ngl.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I don't disagree with you but I also hope they don't go for it, lest Pokémon becomes the new Fire Emblem (especially if it's Cylarex, or even more especially if it's Urshifu).

If anything don't you mean the opposite? Fire Emblem being the new Pokemon given its representation?

 

[Perkilator]

I don't disagree with you but I also hope they don't go for it, lest Pokémon becomes the new Fire Emblem (especially if it's Cylarex, or even more especially if it's Urshifu).

Don’t worry, the pass was being planned WAY before their announcement. I’m sure not even Nintendo is THAT crazy.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Don’t worry, the pass was being planned WAY before their announcement. I’m sure not even Nintendo is THAT crazy.

I mean, that literally doesn't have any influence, Pokemon's the only franchise which gets to have characters who's games would have otherwise came out too late

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Isaac will only get in once people learn how to spell his damn name correctly

Isack? Eyezic? Izach? Isick? Eizick?

Here in Spain he is called Hans or Hanz.

Quite an interesting change ngl.

If he gets in you'd best prepare for jokes about love being an open door.

If anything don't you mean the opposite? Fire Emblem being the new Pokemon given its representation?

No. Pokémon would become the new Fire Emblem. I.E. It becomes the new boogeyman because it has "too many reps" and that they're all "obligatory shill picks" and then grumpy users will come on and say that everyone's predictions are wrong because this is Super Pokémon Bros. now.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Corrin, Byleth, and the ARMS character(especially if a sequel is happening) have something in common, and that is Nintendo feels they need to be promoted in Smash to sell their games. Pokemon doesn't need that.

 

[PeridotGX]

I notice plenty of folks don't expect an Gen 8 Pokemon in the Pass as seen in the Rate Their Chances based on the Spirit Board/Event it got.

Two things.

1. Those were only for an couple of Pokemon. None of those being the final evolution starters and such so Urshifu? Toxtricity? Gen 8 Final evolution Starters? Still on the table. As you should also know Pokemon as of currently has nearly 900 Pokemon.
2. Pokemon is Nintendo's most popular and profitable franchise. They are definitely not missing out on the opportunity. They also don't call Pokemon the biggest media franchise of all time.

You can have Pokemon representation without Galar representation. There's another Pokemon game on Switch, one that would benefit from Smash promotion way more.

 

[Deleted member]

You can have Pokemon representation without Galar representation. There's another Pokemon game on Switch, one that would benefit from Smash promotion way more.
View attachment 271552

Pokémon Quest, let's go Minecraft Pikachu.
I'm joking of course

 

[Dinoman96]

Until Issac reaches Ridley or K. Rool levels of support, I can't say for certain that he'll be able to overcome his obscurity.

He's sort of like Geno in the sense that he has a lot of support, but that support is one of the only things going for him. Also makes it worse that Isaac comes from a franchise unrepresented on the roster. At least Geno is able to latch on to a successful franchise, and that franchise is the most iconic one Nintendo owns no less. Isaac has to rely on his own franchise's merit, which is tough when you pit it against other more relevant/iconic IPs.

Also unlike Isaac, Geno officially has Sakurai's plessings:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Pokémon Quest, let's go Minecraft Pikachu.
I'm joking of course

Eh. The game's presentation is still better than Pokémon Sword & Shield's so I'd be down.

But I think they could do us one better:

Spoiler: It's time.

 

[Deleted member]

Eh. The game's presentation is still better than Pokémon Sword & Shield's so I'd be down.

But I think they could do us one better:
View attachment 271554

When It comes to spin-off Pokémon characters I would love to see a Pokémon Ranger in Smash.

They could make them work with enough effort for sure.

And Ranger music is really awesome:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

When It comes to spin-off Pokémon characters I would love to see a Pokémon Ranger in Smash.

Really any Pokémon spinoff content would be great since there's 0 of it now. Which brings us back here:

Spoiler: Image

View attachment 271552

Who would they even pick from this game? I don't imagine a random starter, but with a scarf (or Pikachu) would go over well so who else is there?

 

[Deleted member]

Really any Pokémon spinoff content would be great since there's 0 of it now. Which brings us back here:

Who would they even pick from this game? I don't imagine a random starter, but with a scarf (or Pikachu) would go over well so who else is there?

Mystery Dungeon fans really want Grovyle due to his role in Explorers of Time/Darkness.

 

[Garteam]

I don't completely see Isaac as down and out, but I do think his popularity (and chance to get promoted) is somewhat overblown. When it comes to ballot characters, he's still got to compete with Bandana Waddle Dee, Geno, and any series that may've had a lot of votes split between multiple characters. Even if Assist promotions are a theme in the pass, Issac's a distant third behind the near guaranteed Spring Man and the massive popular Waluigi. That's also not counting other dark horse assists that may see a second chance, like Shadow, Takamaru, or Zero.

It's a shame too, because we don't have many characters who use Earth-based powers on the roster currently.

 

[PeridotGX]

Really any Pokémon spinoff content would be great since there's 0 of it now. Which brings us back here:

Who would they even pick from this game? I don't imagine a random starter, but with a scarf (or Pikachu) would go over well so who else is there?

Grovyle's the obvious choice, he's the main character of the most popular game in the series. If we need one from the first game, Gengar (the main antagonist) or Gardevoir (an important plot point),

 

[Cosmic77]

Characters from Pokemon spinoff games are tricky because most of them are Pokemon who have identical abilities to their main game counterparts.

If you want to add a Pokemon who's specifically from a certain spinoff game, you can't approach their moveset the same way as the other 10 Pokemon on the roster. You need special mechanics or references from the game they're inspired from, otherwise you're just taking a standard Pokemon moveset, adding a scarf to the character, and claiming it's our first spinoff Pokemon rep.