Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[drag0nscythe]

Hype for a specific character differs from person to person, but I do think there are some instances where the response is so obvious that regardless of where you stand we should be able to say, "Yeah, this character has had a generally positive/negative response".



Sakurai is already sort of doing that now though. There are some things that are socially acceptable in Japan that wouldn't be interpreted the same way in NA. A prime example is Game and Watch's reference to Native Americans that was removed.

Or anything to do with the awesome that is Tingle.

 

[Deleted member]

I always wonder the same thing regarding the Heihachi voice actor argument:

Can't they just use archived audio? They did that with the Coronel Codecs of Shadow Moses.

 

[NintenZ]

I still say SEGA getting more content would be really awesome.

Even if It was an Alex Kidd Mii costume or a Smash remix of the Sakura Wars theme people would seriously love that.

As far as SEGA goes for this pass I definitely think there's a certain someone we should be keeping a close eye on.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Kind of like how said characters wouldn't be featured nor speak if their Japanese voice actor died?

Heihachi notably being one of those and why Phil in one of the Kingdom Hearts games was rather quiet.

Heihachi hasn't had the chance to be included in anything major yet. We don't really know what the situation is with him since they do seem to recast major characters with speaking roles if they can't write them out of the story.

Another barrier I could see for western reps in Smash as it seems Smash is celebrating video gaming only originating in Japan unless western character has ties to Nintendo.

I really don't get this line of thinking. I feel like the entire basis of logic here is that "it hasn't happened yet, so it probably won't".

Sakurai is already sort of doing that now though. There are some things that are socially acceptable in Japan that wouldn't be interpreted the same way in NA. A prime example is Game and Watch's reference to Native Americans that was removed.

Its still a barrier though. An evidentially manageable one considering the western character (Banjo & Kazooie) and Spirits (Rayman, Shantae, Warframe) we currently have, but one nonetheless.

 

[Deleted member]

As far as SEGA goes for this pass I definitely think there's a certain someone we should be keeping a close eye on.

I would love It if we got Sakura having an alt based on her new game and a cool remix of the main Sakura Wars theme.

Hopefully she would come with Alex Kidd and Billy Hatcher Mii costumes too.

 

[Mr. Robotto]

If Microsoft gets another character, I could see 2. because Sakurai has managed to work with Microsoft before with Banjo, it might be easier this time to communitcate due to Familiarity. If there's more appeal to the west in this pass, I could see Another Western Company being thrown in because that would be the only unknown in a Sense

Besides Chief, I also say League of Legends (though ain't the company behind that owned by China), Mortal Kombat, and Crash have a shot

League of Legends is owned by Riot Games, which was acquired by Tencent, indeed a Chinese company. And even then, Nintendo has partnered up with Tencent for the release of the Switch. So honestly, a League of Legends rep is more possible than many may think.

I the way it would work is that, when it activates, the main track gets quiet and Ride the Fire gets played over it (essentially, it would be a glorified sound effect). I'm pretty sure this is how it works with the music "changing" items like the Hammer, since this is how it worked in previous games.

The competitive community would be super salty with a character that has two comeback mechanics; one that's like Arsene, and another that says no to combos.

Yeah, on second thought. Maybe bringing the Burst mechanic along with Sol would be overkill lmao (though it'd serve as a nice counterpick to the shotos).
Though I can imagine Sol having a Tension gauge where he would be able to Roman Cancel and Dragon Install from. His Dragon Install form doesn't even last that long (nothing compared to Joker's Arsene). And every time it ends Sol is forced into a recovery animation, which would make him open for attacks. Sounds fair overall, especially compared to Joker. Roman Cancelling would probably serve as his Down-B and negate the recovery of a move, that way Sol will be able to combo.
The competitive community will always be salty with any given gimmick, though Hero was the absolute peak lmao.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's not exactly what he means here.

He's saying that someone like Chief people see as likely because it's a character they want to see get in, whereas something like ARMS is a lot more grounded in reality because it's a character they own and doesn't require the legal hassle that Chief does. (Plus he's EXTREMELY niche in Japan I genuinely don't see him happening lol)

I really haven't seen people think Chief is likely but rather acknowledge that it'd be impossible to top Chief in Smash, so I think that was a poor example then. Not to mention Smashchu absolutely tried claiming characters are deemed unhype for not being Nintendo whereas third parties are deemed hype for not being Nintendo. I'm not going to pretend that someone who has claimed that further third party licensing won't happen multiple times since before Smash 4 came out has a point because he's always been on the anti third party train.

Oh, my mistake, then Banjo clearly won't happen as two out of his 5 games never made it to Japan alongside another one being exclusive to the 360, which also means that every port of the first two games flopped there too. Banjo's also super niche in Japan then by this logic

 

[NintenZ]

I would love It if we got Sakura having an alt based on her new game and a cool remix of the main Sakura Wars theme.

Hopefully she would come with Alex Kidd and Billy Hatcher Mii costumes too.

I personally was thinking her stage could come with music from other SEGA RPGs, that'd be really neat!

I'm pretty confident in her cause there's a lot going for her and she's relevant but the only thing that makes me slightly hesitant is the Virtua Fighter costumes we just got which I'm wondering if they would've saved for her since those are from SEGA but there's always other SEGA characters, ones from her own franchise, and the Lloyd costume (Which is by the same character designer).

 

[Deleted member]

I personally was thinking her stage could come with music from other SEGA RPGs, that'd be really neat!

I'm pretty confident in her cause there's a lot going for her and she's relevant but the only thing that makes me slightly hesitant is the Virtua Fighter costumes we just got which I'm wondering if they would've saved for her since those are from SEGA but there's always other SEGA characters, ones from her own franchise, and the Lloyd costume (Which is by the same character designer).

I wouldn't worry much about the Mii costumes since SEGA has enough characters to serve as a basis for new ones.

 

[NintenZ]

Oh, my mistake, then Banjo clearly won't happen as two out of his 5 games never made it to Japan alongside another one being exclusive to the 360, which also means that every port of the first two games flopped there too. Banjo's also super niche in Japan then by this logic

I don't even understand this argument Chief's games have never performed well in Japan while Banjo's games did pretty well on the N64 there (Hell the entire Shinkansen was modeled after his game for a bit)

No really what?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I would like to just say, I never said Master Chief was likely. I don’t think he’s likely. As a Halo fan, I’d **** a brick because holy crap, what a pick! But I certainly don’t see him as likely.

 

[Deleted member]

I would like to just say, I never said Master Chief was likely. I don’t think he’s likely. As a Halo fan, I’d **** a brick because holy crap, what a pick! But I certainly don’t see him as likely.

Having the Halo OST in Smash would legit be god-tier

 

[NintenZ]

I wouldn't worry much about the Mii costumes since SEGA has enough characters to serve as a basis for new ones.

Yeah that's true.

I could see a Sylveria or Vyse swordfighter, an Alex Kidd brawler, an Ulala gunner, and a Puyo or Nights hat. There's a lot of possibilities still untapped.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The competitive community will always be salty with any given gimmick, though Hero was the absolute peak lmao.

They seem to be fine with Wonderwing. It's Banjo & Kazooie's projectiles that gets them hate. lol

Though the competitive community seems to hate comeback mechanics in general more than any other type of gimmick.

As a Halo fan, I’d **** a brick because holy crap, what a pick!

...
...
Um...I wouldn't imagine that would be very comfortable or satisfying...

 

[Perkilator]

As far as SEGA goes for this pass I definitely think there's a certain someone we should be keeping a close eye on.

Any pure SEGA Rep would be cool, but I’m more rooting for Axel Stone:

 

[NintenZ]

I would like to just say, I never said Master Chief was likely. I don’t think he’s likely. As a Halo fan, I’d **** a brick because holy crap, what a pick! But I certainly don’t see him as likely.

Yeah I just think it's important to separate what we want and what we actually think is likely.

Like i'd love Chun-Li for example but I just can't see her because we already have Ryu AND Ken in the game and I don't think they have interest in adding another Street Fighter character with the abundance of content it got in Ultimate.

Hopefully you see what I mean by this.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I want mc for the music mainly.

 

[Deleted member]

Any pure SEGA Rep would be cool, but I’m more rooting for Axel Stone:
View attachment 271545

He would be really awesome too!

I recently played Streets Of Rage 4 and I'm loving the game.

 

[NintenZ]

Any pure SEGA Rep would be cool, but I’m more rooting for Axel Stone:
View attachment 271545

Okay but consider this

You know what they say the more the merrier, can never have too many SEGA characters!

 

[7NATOR]

Why Mortal Kombat?
As I stated, the reason Banjo might the exceptional rule is due to the franchises history with Nintendo back then. Yes you may point out toandbut reminder that those characters are from games originating from Japan that were only developed by western studios. Otherwise notice how all characters in Smash so far has all been from franchises having only originated in Japan?

Reason I could see maybe Steve or Master Chief is due to the good relationship between Nintendo and Microsoft right now. Even then I would lean more towards Steve due to the cross promotion and Minecraft being big worldwide especially Japan.

It also doesn't help either that Mortal Kombat isn't popular in Japan nor localized there.

Well i mean Mortal Kombat has Very good history with Nintendo, Don't know what you mean? and i know about about the lack of Japan presense for the series, but eh

Plus exceptions alot of the time have started to become normal is the thing. The series is evolving so Banjo might stop being an exception and could be a new normal. There's western companies that have good relations with Nintendo and that's a well that hasn't really been tapped into in Smash like the Japanese market has.

Yeah there was probably was some sort of creative differences Sakurai had with how Shadow was being portrayed which led to him being dropped altogether.

As shown with the amount of visable emotion Sonic has been showing compared to Brawl it's very clear they're strict creatively.

I haven't played Brawl in awhile, is Sonic's Emotions that stunted in 4 and Ultimate compared to Brawl?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't even understand this argument Chief's games have never performed well in Japan while Banjo's games did pretty well on the N64 there (Hell the entire Shinkansen was modeled after his game for a bit)

No really what?

What I mean is that Banjo's success evaporated with anything else that potential found success, that being the ports of the first two games, flopped there too. I simply do not believe Halo's lukewarm Japanese reception is such a strong factor when a character's legacy has already proven to bypass the boundaries that we assumed were laws. Cloud was a even a goddamn meme pick in the Brawl days yet the boundaries preventing him suddenly never existed in the first place, we already have an example of western centric requests being validated and Chief is a whole other level than Ridley and Little Mac. "But those are Nintendo characters!" We have no proof that this matters as seen with how Cloud's only games on Nintendo were cameos

 

[ZelDan]

Master Chief getting into Smash would be amazing, as well as actually kind of special in a way.

My 2 favorite multiplayer franchises of all time, and the multiplayer franchises my friends and I have spent the most time playing together over the years, are Smash Bros and Halo. To see the 2 IPs merge with MC being playable would definitely be something.

 

[NintenZ]

I haven't played Brawl in awhile, is Sonic's Emotions that stunted in 4 and Ultimate compared to Brawl?

Oh definitely:

It really made a difference honestly.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Nothing is really stopping any video game character. Just preference. When ranking, we can have a debate, but almost anyone is on the table.

 

[Megadoomer]

I always wonder the same thing regarding the Heihachi voice actor argument:

Can't they just use archived audio? They did that with the Coronel Codecs of Shadow Moses.

Probably. By my understanding, they did that for Heihachi's appearance in the mobile game King of Fighters All Stars.

 

[SKX31]

Even then you can't blame any of the non-character stuff on fake leaks. All those fun game modes being removed and spending most of the direct talking about .pngs and brightness settings would've been disappointing no matter what.

OTOH, I bet the talk about ".png" would be much lessened if A) there were downloadable Spirit teams and B) Spirit Battles were its own mode in the Smash menu instead of a toggle-able option. Right now most people don't care about Spirits because they aren't even seen or can be outright skipped, and those who potentially would be interested in crazy Spirit multiplayer battles are probably turned off by the fact that one has to craft the Spirit teams manually and save them for them to be easily accessible.

Pet peeve of mine, but with all the crazy stuff Spirits can allow (especially OP ones like Geese Howard) there's a lot of wasted potential when it comes to casual matches. Not a deal breaker for me, but it could be less of a hassle to do multiplayer Spirit battles.

The competitive community will always be salty with any given gimmick, though Hero was the absolute peak lmao.

TBF that died down a month or so after, when people saw that Hero wasn't really borken or anything (the frame data is the primary weak point - Hero's sword attacks are slow and kinda clunky overall). Still though it got silly - and I'm a competitive guy myself.

They seem to be fine with Wonderwing. It's Banjo & Kazooie's projectiles that gets them hate. lol

Though the competitive community seems to hate comeback mechanics in general more than any other type of gimmick.

And TBF again, comeback mechanics can be puretty annoying:

Stuff like that is why the rage mechanic was toned down in Ultimate.

 

[PeridotGX]

What if it’s a third party that’s technically already in the game if the ARMS rep shatters the Spirits fan rule? Probably base only Spirits would qualify, but the companies could give consent for their character to become fully playable. Rayman and Shantae come to mind

this is how sans can still win

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I really don't get this line of thinking. I feel like the entire basis of logic here is that "it hasn't happened yet, so it probably won't".

What I mean is the reason Banjo might be our only full western character is due to his and Rare's ties to Nintendo back then notably having been owned by them as 2nd parties but were eventually sold to Microsoft.

Which is why if anything I think we'll only get one more western rep at most if this is the case and has to be popular in Japan hence someone like Crash or Steve.

Well i mean Mortal Kombat has Very good history with Nintendo, Don't know what you mean? and i know about about the lack of Japan presense for the series, but eh

Plus exceptions alot of the time have started to become normal is the thing. The series is evolving so Banjo might stop being an exception and could be a new normal. There's western companies that have good relations with Nintendo and that's a well that hasn't really been tapped into in Smash like the Japanese market has.

I mean ties to Nintendo.

As I mentioned with Banjo. Banjo is owned by Rare, they were once owned by Nintendo as 2nd parties before being sold to Microsoft in 2002.

 

[7NATOR]

Oh definitely:

It really made a difference honestly.

Well Dang! You know wasn't the Ken Panders Case with the Archie comics around this time. I think ever since that (and also Sonic 06), the Sonic character have kinda been played more safely. I guess because Sega wants to try to keep the Brand more consistent and not as crazy as the "Dark Ages of Sonic (though they've adopted more meta humor these days)

I think they might be able to get away more with Shadow because he isn't the focus character like Sonic is. but eh

I mean ties to Nintendo.

As I mentioned with Banjo. Banjo is owned by Rare, they were once owned by Nintendo as 2nd parties before being sold to Microsoft in 2002.

Ahh well i get that, but you do say you could see characters like Steve or Chief due to good relations with Microsoft, So i kinda took that as good relations in general.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Ahh well i get that, but you do say you could see characters like Steve or Chief due to good relations with Microsoft, So i kinda took that as good relations in general.

Kind of my point. If we do get more western characters, I think its going to be one more and it has to be one that's popular in Japan like Crash or as you mentioned Steve given how big Minecraft is and the cross promotion Nintendo has with Microsoft.

 

[Opossum]

That can be get around saying the Chrom you see in Robin's Final Smash is simply future Chrom and the one played is present Chrom.

I mean this is explicitly not the case in Ultimate.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Oh definitely:
It really made a difference honestly.

Better posing but now his mouth is just an unmoving texture. Looks like he and Mega Man both got done dirty here.

What I mean is the reason Banjo might be our only full western character is due to his and Rare's ties to Nintendo back then notably having been owned by them as 2nd parties but were eventually sold to Microsoft.

Which is why if anything I think we'll only get one more western rep at most if this is the case and has to be popular in Japan hence someone like Crash or Steve.

I mean ties to Nintendo.

As I mentioned with Banjo. Banjo is owned by Rare, they were once owned by Nintendo as 2nd parties before being sold to Microsoft in 2002.

There are plenty of Mortal Kombat games on Nintendo consoles though. Including the first ones, which are probably the most well known.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

There are plenty of Mortal Kombat games on Nintendo consoles though. Including the first ones, which are probably the most well known.

Unfortunately though due its lack of popularity there and no localization, I find the chances of an MK character (Obviously Scorpion) getting in very unlikely.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Unfortunately though due its lack of popularity there and no localization, I find the chances of an MK character (Obviously Scorpion) getting in very unlikely.

And yes. They can tone down the violence, but i think it being banned in japan will affectits prospects.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean this is explicitly not the case in Ultimate.

Not to mention Future Chrom is kinda uhhhh...

Unavailable

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I wonder if the Grinch stuff had any impact on FP Vol. 2. As I've stated previously, this would be their first chance to revisit characters that were shafted in the base game, and if you look back on past games, it's big backlashes that often precede characters getting in, like Ridley's reveal as a boss or K. Rool's infamous Mii costume.
What's really interesting is that according to Imran Khan, the decision to make Fighter's Pass Vol. 2 happened at E3 2019. What else happened at E3? A character from said blurry image got in, to a rave reception that shocked even Nintendo. Now I'm highly doubtful that the remaining characters are gonna be Geno, Isaac, Shadow, Chorus Kids, and Mach Rider, hell I think we'd get two of them at best, but you'd have to be insane to think Banjo's reception had no impact on the second Fighter's Pass.

It's more likely that in the wake of the double Smash announcements at E3 and surrounding the event that the pass was just selling so well that Nintendo had no trouble greenlighting additional DLC rather than specifically responding to Banjo & Kazooie's reception. Also, Nintendo has always known including a fan favorite gives them a good reception. That's why they throw parts of the fan base a bone every now and then and I do expect a more "requested fighter" to make it into Volume 2, but I don't think Banjo & Kazooie were any more special than any other number of requests getting in with regards to their decision making. Quite frankly, Banjo & Kazooie were already the holy grail of the "Grinch" anyway, so they kind of used the biggest one right out of the gate since there was always more skepticism that they would ever get in and Banjo & Kazooie were definitely the most successful of those unique fighters in said leak as well (not counting Shadow since the assumption overwhelmingly was he was "Destined" to be an Echo anyway). I don't think it's going to have some huge impact when Fighter's Pass 1 also just had tons of good reception outside of Banjo & Kazooie anyway (outside of Byleth who was also far too late to impact most decision making).

If the ARMS fighter is Springman then Isaac and Shadow chances have increased tenfold. If the fighter is any of the ARMS spirits then Geno and Mach Rider fans just got rid of the biggest hurdle of their character getting in.

I'm skeptical how much a fake leak affected the development process but I like entertaining the possibility.

I wouldn't really say Spring Man getting in changes the calculus of those fighters getting in. You still have to individually assess the chances of all the fighters and where they individually come from. Like, nothing changes for those characters and they all had other independent reasons for not making it in whereas ARMS' problem was just bad timing (same for Rex). Like, sure, at best it shows that they're willing to do upgrades, but it's not like Golden Sun's situation has changed at all in the last couple years and he isn't really any more likely outside of the fact he might have maybe had an extra opportunity for consideration (which applies broadly to literally everything already in the game by Summer 2019).

 

[NintenZ]

Better posing but now his mouth is just an unmoving texture. Looks like he and Mega Man both got done dirty here.

Mega Man it kinda makes sense because he's a robot.

Sonic however it does not and he has even less emotion then he did before.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

And yes. They can tone down the violence, but i think it being banned in japan will affectits prospects.

Wasn't gonna mention anyways and that ain't an issue when we have

 

[Schnee117]

Not to mention Future Chrom is kinda uhhhh...
View attachment 271546
Unavailable

Not unavailable, he'd just look like this

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Mega Man it kinda makes sense because he's a robot.

Sonic however it does not and he has even less emotion then he did before.

Well yeah, but it's not like he doesn't have one, and in all of his appearances outside of the NES era (except in Smash), he's been able to express himself. (Heck, I'd say even his NES sprite is more expressive than Mega Man is in smash.)

But yeah, Sonic's definitely worse since he's actually lost personality between games. Unfortunately this seems to be a general Sonic thing, and I hope Sonic can find his footing soon.