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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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SMAASH! Puppy

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Mystery Dungeon fans really want Grovyle due to his role in Explorers of Time/Darkness.
I knew about Grovyle but I don't think he's in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Rescue Team DX.
If we need one from the first game, Gengar (the main antagonist) or Gardevoir (an important plot point),
Both of those would work pretty well; They're important to the game and they're fan favorites in general.


Heh, plot twist: They pick Pikachu and his partner, Squirtle as transforming characters.
 

Megadoomer

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We're possibly getting another new spirit event tonight; it's been three weeks since the Trials of Mana spirit announcement. I'm guessing that it's going to be a third party series rather than a first party one. The only first party game that's coming out soon that we know of is Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition - while that could give us Shulk (Future Connected), Melia (Future Connected), and Kino and Nene (either as one spirit or two), I'm not sure if they'd have a whole spirit event dedicated to a remake of a game that's already gotten plenty of spirits as it is. Unless there's something that I'm forgetting, which is entirely possible.

Part of me hopes that it's an event for Final Fantasy 7 Remake so they can include renders of Barret, Tifa, Aerith, and Sephiroth (sorry Red XIII) as spirits, unless there are issues keeping those out too. (I have no idea why they aren't using the original FF7 artwork)
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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If you want to add a Pokemon who's specifically from a certain spinoff game, you can't approach their moveset the same way as the other 10 Pokemon in the roster. You need special mechanics or references from the game they're inspired from, otherwise you're just taking a standard Pokemon moveset, adding a scarf to the character, and claiming it's our first spinoff Pokemon rep.
That's a good point. Let's look at Pokémon Mystery Dungeon's mechanics:
Bulbapedia said:
They get hungry and die.
I don't think I want a character from this series anymore...
 
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We're possibly getting another new spirit event tonight; it's been three weeks since the Trials of Mana spirit announcement. I'm guessing that it's going to be a third party series rather than a first party one. The only first party game that's coming out soon that we know of is Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition - while that could give us Shulk (Future Connected), Melia (Future Connected), and Kino and Nene (either as one spirit or two), I'm not sure if they'd have a whole spirit event dedicated to a remake of a game that's already gotten plenty of spirits as it is. Unless there's something that I'm forgetting, which is entirely possible.

Part of me hopes that it's an event for Final Fantasy 7 Remake so they can include renders of Barret, Tifa, Aerith, and Sephiroth (sorry Red XIII) as spirits, unless there are issues keeping those out too. (I have no idea why they aren't using the original FF7 artwork)
I feel It could either be a SEGA-themed event (Streets Of Rage or Sakura Wars), a XC Definitive Edition event or as you comment a FFVII event.
 

Animegamingnerd

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Issac feels honestly unlikely to me, I do think his fandom kind of overstates his popularity as its been 10 years since the last game in the series, which was only the third game and didn't sell all to well. While ironically enough Nintendo tends focus and care about JRPG's more now then ever with series like Xenoblade and Fire Emblem selling better and better with each entry and the rumors of Paper Mario going back to its roots. But Golden Sun doesn't seem to showing any life at all right now.
 

Goombaic

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We're possibly getting another new spirit event tonight; it's been three weeks since the Trials of Mana spirit announcement. I'm guessing that it's going to be a third party series rather than a first party one. The only first party game that's coming out soon that we know of is Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition - while that could give us Shulk (Future Connected), Melia (Future Connected), and Kino and Nene (either as one spirit or two), I'm not sure if they'd have a whole spirit event dedicated to a remake of a game that's already gotten plenty of spirits as it is. Unless there's something that I'm forgetting, which is entirely possible.

Part of me hopes that it's an event for Final Fantasy 7 Remake so they can include renders of Barret, Tifa, Aerith, and Sephiroth (sorry Red XIII) as spirits, unless there are issues keeping those out too. (I have no idea why they aren't using the original FF7 artwork)
We just had an event last week actually, but events have happened for consecutive weeks before so we'll just have to wait and see.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Issac feels honestly unlikely to me, I do think his fandom kind of overstates his popularity as its been 10 years since the last game in the series, which was only the third game and didn't sell all to well. While ironically enough Nintendo tends focus and care about JRPG's more now then ever with series like Xenoblade and Fire Emblem selling better and better with each entry and the rumors of Paper Mario going back to its roots. But Golden Sun doesn't seem to showing any life at all right now.
Maybe overall popularity sure but his popularity in the Smash fandom has been the most consistent of any single character. K. Rools and Ridleys exploded during Smash 4 and Isaac was right behind them. And Isaac was in the lead for popularity in time of post K. Rool reveal. His only popularity hit has been after his AT in Ultimate but it is still very notable.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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We just had an event last week actually, but events have happened for consecutive weeks before so we'll just have to wait and see.
Last week’s event didn’t introduce new spirits tho
 

CaptainAmerica

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I think we're all forgetting the main reason Isaac should be added:
We need more facial hair in the cast.

Lol, I don't know much about the series at all beyond that it's a JRPG, but that it probably one of the least JRPG-y costumes there. After all, he's only got one belt and a normal-sized sword. I could deal with that.

Shadow was always promoted heavily in Brawl and Smash 4 (even more than Tails)
:crying:

The Genesis and Sonic 2 were my first ever games, so I'm really sad my first character I ever played in a game is being pushed aside so much in Smash. Seriously, Tails didn't even get an assist? Or even a primary spirit? He's just a three-star support who nobody uses since he's outclassed by 4-stars like Mew.

What about the ending of the movie...?

I still haven't seen this, but I heard it wasn't a disappointment...
 

Will

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I think we're all forgetting the main reason Isaac should be added:
We need more facial hair in the cast.

Lol, I don't know much about the series at all beyond that it's a JRPG, but that it probably one of the least JRPG-y costumes there. After all, he's only got one belt and a normal-sized sword. I could deal with that.
I could see it tbh, having the old Isaac be the playable one but the young Isaac be the Assist. Could be a neat twist on the subject.
 

Dinoman96

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Maybe overall popularity sure but his popularity in the Smash fandom has been the most consistent of any single character. K. Rools and Ridleys exploded during Smash 4 and Isaac was right behind them. And Isaac was in the lead for popularity in time of post K. Rool reveal. His only popularity hit has been after his AT in Ultimate but it is still very notable.
But like I said...his popularity on the ballot only resulted in him being an AT. Whereas K. Rool and Ridley were made playable.
 

Gribbo

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I notice plenty of folks don't expect an Gen 8 Pokemon in the Pass as seen in the Rate Their Chances based on the Spirit Board/Event it got.

Two things.

1. Those were only for an couple of Pokemon. None of those being the final evolution starters and such so Urshifu? Toxtricity? Gen 8 Final evolution Starters? Still on the table. As you should also know Pokemon as of currently has nearly 900 Pokemon.
2. Pokemon is Nintendo's most popular and profitable franchise. They are definitely not missing out on the opportunity. They also don't call Pokemon the biggest media franchise of all time.
I don't think anybody's saying they're out of characters to make playable. The problem is, if they were doing Sword and Shield spirits, why release them in late November instead of waiting for the Challenger Pack like Byleth? Keep in mind that Sakurai said in the Byleth presentation that the contents were already decided, and that was recorded days after the Terry presentation, meaning no later than November 4th. The spirit event for Sword and Shield came out November 21st.
With that in mind, I think it's still possible, just that the spirit event makes it a lot less likely. There's always the chance we'll get another slot dedicated to promoting a new game, and with the drought we're experiencing, Pokemon makes a lot of sense. Personally I think if we get one it'll be Urshifu. Considering we got Pokemon Ryu, then Pokemon Strider Hiryu, then Pokemon King, Pokemon Akira feels like the next logical step.

But like I said...his popularity on the ballot only resulted in him being an AT. Whereas K. Rool and Ridley were made playable.
They were only able to add so many newcomers in the base game, I doubt they were able to fit everything they wanted. Unless you also think that they decided that Bowser and Peach weren't worthy for Smash 64, only to change their minds immediately after.
 
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Idon

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We need more facial hair in the cast.

Lol, I don't know much about the series at all beyond that it's a JRPG, but that it probably one of the least JRPG-y costumes there. After all, he's only got one belt and a normal-sized sword. I could deal with that.
It's actually pretty JRPG-y, just a JRPG outfit for a party member rather than the protagonist, which in this case, is pretty fitting.

Anyway, as for facial haired heroes, I think the obvious answer is this guy:
 
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Thinking about Dante always makes me wonder how many Smash fighters have canonically eaten pizza.

I think Kirby has to be one of them.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I don't think anybody's saying they're out of characters to make playable. The problem is, if they were doing Sword and Shield spirits, why release them in late November instead of waiting for the Challenger Pack like Byleth? Keep in mind that Sakurai said in the Byleth presentation that the contents were already decided, and that was recorded days after the Terry presentation, meaning no later than November 4th. The spirit event for Sword and Shield came out November 21st.
With that in mind, I think it's still possible, just that the spirit event makes it a lot less likely. There's always the chance we'll get another slot dedicated to promoting a new game, and with the drought we're experiencing, Pokemon makes a lot of sense. Personally I think if we get one it'll be Urshifu. Considering we got Pokemon Ryu, then Pokemon Strider Hiryu, then Pokemon King, Pokemon Akira feels like the next logical step.


They were only able to add so many newcomers in the base game, I doubt they were able to fit everything they wanted. Unless you also think that they decided that Bowser and Peach weren't worthy for Smash 64, only to change their minds immediately after.
Because it makes way more sense to advertise the core game immediately. There was no Pokemon planned for the first Fighter's Pass.

Pokemon getting a character from the Expansion Pass, which is effectively the updated re-release overall(just done differently), is plausible. Them getting at least spirits to promote the expansion pass is highly likely, if not inevitable. It's the first time they also stopped doing updated re-releases and changed it to a new story expansion, which is a huge milestone for Pokemon. So that's something worth it for Nintendo to promote. Think of how big this is for future Pokemon games. Where you don't need to constantly buy remakes and finally have DLC stories to add to it.

They should've released them in November no matter what. If they were doing a Pokemon for Pass 2, you still would be promoting the base game, as the Expansion Pass is a major story addition and worthy of its own content. Let's say Mortal Kombat got a spirit way earlier. That expansion pass they just got, a massively unique storyline, would also be an excellent time for another spirit event. The key factor is Sword/Shield only got a small amount of spirits, but not some of the more important characters. There's still a lot of important ones to give a spirit too. This cannot be said for ones like Astral Chain or Resident Evil, where all the important characters were given spirits immediately.
 

Jerry98

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I knew about Grovyle but I don't think he's in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Rescue Team DX.
No, he isn't in the game. But he's the most important character in the series.

That's a good point. Let's look at Pokémon Mystery Dungeon's mechanics:
I don't think I want a character from this series anymore...
That Grovyle can use Dig and it could be his down-B.
There's also a lot of items from MD: seeds, wonder orbs, Gravelerock and Iron Thorn, wands, etc. They have many different effects and they could be implemented as a special move.
Then Grovyle could also use Time Gears in some way to slow down time like Bayo's down-B.
Obviously part of the moveset would be standard pokémon moves and I don't think there's something wrong with that.


Anyway, he would still be 10 times better than Sceptile.
And Mystery Dungeon music in Smash could be a blessing!
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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No, he isn't in the game. But he's the most important character in the series.


That Grovyle can use Dig and it could be his down-B.
There's also a lot of items from MD: seeds, wonder orbs, Gravelerock and Iron Thorn, wands, etc. They have many different effects and they could be implemented as a special move.
Then Grovyle could also use Time Gears in some way to slow down time like Bayo's down-B.
Obviously part of the moveset would be standard pokémon moves and I don't think there's something wrong with that.


Anyway, he would still be 10 times better than Sceptile.
And Mystery Dungeon music in Smash could be a blessing!
Grovyle's a thief right? If so it'd totally make sense to give him items like this.

I'd give Dig to a Pokémon like Garchomp though.
 

ZelDan

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Isaac just didn't see his AT return, he had it returned with an updated moveset, something I don't think many other ATs got. his series also has the most spirits of any series without playable representation IIRC, he got a spirit that could be upgraded and becomke legendary (and I think it's one of the more powerful ones to boot?), and he got a Mii costume.

So yeah, Isaac's definitely pretty popular considering all the content GS got, since I kinda doubt Nintendo/Sakurai would have added some or many of it otherwise.
 
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PeridotGX

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Characters from Pokemon spinoff games are tricky because most of them are Pokemon who have identical abilities to their main game counterparts.

If you want to add a Pokemon who's specifically from a certain spinoff game, you can't approach their moveset the same way as the other 10 Pokemon on the roster. You need special mechanics or references from the game they're inspired from, otherwise you're just taking a standard Pokemon moveset, adding a scarf to the character, and claiming it's our first spinoff Pokemon rep.
I made a moveset for Grovyle, here are the things I did to make him distinctly PMD.

1. He speaks English.
2. Celebi shows up for his grabs
3. The specials and Final Smash use distinctly PMD things (Warp Orbs, Tiles, Gravelrocks, and a Monster house).

A PMD victory theme and a PMD stage on top would probably make it all very clear.
 

Perkilator

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I made a moveset for Grovyle, here are the things I did to make him distinctly PMD.

1. He speaks English.
2. Celebi shows up for his grabs
3. The specials and Final Smash use distinctly PMD things (Warp Orbs, Tiles, Gravelrocks, and a Monster house).

A PMD victory theme and a PMD stage on top would probably make it all very clear.
May I please see that? I’m curious.
 

Gribbo

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Decided to do more research into that pizza question
- Mario Party 3 has that one minigame where you have to eat parts of a giant pizza, so Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Wario, DK, and Daisy are all accounted for
- The same minigame was in Mario Party: The Top 100, meaning we can add Rosalina
- Pizza exists as a consumable item in Kirby's Return to Dream Land, meaning Kirby, Meta Knight, and Dedede have in fact eaten pizza
- In Earthbound, you can order Mach Pizza, and in Mother 3, one of the recovery items in New Pork City is called "Your favorite pizza", ergo, Ness and Lucas have had pizza
- Sonic Unleashed had a variety of food items Sonic could eat for experience points (which that game had), one of which being a pizza
- While the Pokemon Trainer from FRLG hasn't had pizza from what I can tell, the Pokemon Trainer in Sun and Moon can go to a buffet where one of the available items is, in fact, pizza, with Miltank cheese.
- There is no way in hell Pac-Man has never eaten pizza but I'm too lazy to check
- While Kid Icarus Uprising doesn't feature pizza as a recovery item, Palutena ponders the idea of ordering a pizza in one chapter, citing that she somehow got a coupon
- If Spring Man is the ARMS character, we can add him to the list

why did i do this
 

SNEKeater

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ArcSys could definitely pull off an SNK. Honestly the fact that Daisuke even composes BlazBlue tracks could even open the doors to BlazBlue songs in Smash if Sol were to come. It all basically comes down to how strict (or, hopefully in this case: relaxed) Daisuke is when it comes to the rights of his music. Any specific BlazBlue tracks you'd like to see?
Also the thing about Overture is that the OST is basically the best thing about it. The game itself is... very different, let's just leave it at that lol.

Dragon Install (along with the Burst mechanic) could definitely be Sol's gimmick. And Ride the Fire playing when you activate it is great idea and a nice nod to Xrd! It'd just overrule the track that was currently playing, no matter the stage, and keep playing till the set is over (or maybe when Sol loses a stock?). But god, that would be so hype.
Honestly I haven't played BlazBlue. I have heard some of the music but I don't really know well the soundtrack of the series, so I don't think I could make a choice for now. I have to look more into the music!
And yeah I didn't heard very good things about Overture as well. It has one of my fave songs of the series, Communication, which is from Overture if I'm not mistaken.

The Ride the Fire thing would be really cool. The song could end when Sol loses the stock as you said, or maybe when his Dragon Install ends.
About the gimmick, I think including the tension gauge and therefore, roman cancels, would be cooler. Maybe in a different way in comparison to GG games. Dragon Install would be easier to put, that's for sure, it could work similar to Joker's down B, so maybe they would go for that. Tension gauge + Roman cancels would rep GG as a series better, but that would be harder to balance, I guess.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Yeah, I totally understand. But it's also one of his peculiarities and I think it should be transposed in case he gets in Smash.
I did some digging (mainly to affirm that normal Grovyle can't actually learn Dig), and found out about the IQ stat, which gives Pokémon various passive abilities.

Grovyle's IQ is D, which I believe makes him more evasive, attack faster, crit more, recovers from status ailments faster, and allows him to counter attacks. Dunno if any of that should go in the moveset, but it is interesting.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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The Ride the Fire thing would be really cool. The song could end when Sol loses the stock as you said, or maybe when his Dragon Install ends.
Wait a minute. If Dragon Install doesn't last very long (at least, not as long as Arsenne as was suggested), then you probably wouldn't get to the chorus. Perhaps just have it plays until he dies or if the song ends.

Though as a pure heavy metal song I will say that I don't really like Ride the Fire, and would not be bummed in the slightest if this mechanic wasn't used at all. Unless they made a remix of it that I liked, then I'd be bummed if they didn't do the thing.

obligatory text so i don't get a warning
This was all I saw at the start, so I was very confused as to why this wouldn't get you a warning. lol
 
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Droodle

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I want Isaac, but I can't see Nintendo prioritizing him when his franchise has been MIA for over a decade, apart from the WII U Eshop ports. Sure, he's popular but there's no real point in adding currently unless a new Golden Sun comes out (there have been rumors of a new one, but they're just rumors until confirmed). So the fact that he has no upcoming games/appearances really hurts his chances.

The same could be said for Geno, I think his popularity is somewhat overstated; even if he'd be a cool character. He's even more inactive then Isaac, and Isaac was arguably more popular then him until he got deconfirmed. Really the only reason why Geno's fanbase is still trucking around is that being a spirit isn't as big of a hit than being an AT. It's clear that Square doesn't really care about him that much apart from letting him get a costume/spirits, and even if he does get into Smash, will he be used in anything in the future? There isn't any demand to add him to anything except for Smash, and any future Mario RPGs can continue without paying licensing for Geno. He could technically advertise a potential SMRPG port, but advertising a $15 port of a 30 year old game doesn't seem like a lucrative venture. And I doubt Square has the time/interest to remake SMRPG too.

There are so many potential picks out there for active series/characters that I can't see Nintendo picking Isaac or Geno, unless they have some sort of plan for their reappearance in the future.

That said, we did end up getting Banjo-Kazooie into Smash; and that series has been super inactive as well. As far as I can tell, Isaac/Banjo were really close in terms of Smash popularity until Isaac got AT'd (judging from a ton of fan-polls, which is the best I can do). Microsoft also has more popular characters/series like Steve or Master Chief that they could have pushed over Banjo. But unlike someone like Geno, Microsoft has been pushing for Banjo Kazooie to be playable since the ballot days (we probably wouldn't have BK if Microsoft wasn't pushing for it). And unlike Isaac, Nintendo may have chosen BK purely to strengthen their relationship with Microsoft on top of satisfying some fan-demand.

Microsoft has been trying to break into the JP market for a while, and having a good relationship with Nintendo (who dominate the JP market currently) gives them an incentive to put BK in Smash as well.

So overall, I think super inactive characters/series like Isaac, Geno, Ryu Hayabusa etc. are all super unlikely, unless Nintendo/their company has a plan for them in the near future. I personally think there is a higher chance of Geno and Ryu Hayabusa being costumed rather then being playable. Banjo was an exception because Microsoft wants to strengthen their presence in the JP market, and Nintendo had something to gain from it as well.
 

SNEKeater

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Wait a minute. If Dragon Install doesn't last very long (at least, not as long as Arsenne as was suggested), then you probably wouldn't get to the chorus. Perhaps just have it plays until he dies or if the song ends.

Though as a pure heavy metal song I will say that I don't really like it and would not be bummed in the slightest if this mechanic wasn't used at all. Unless they made a remix of it that I liked, then I'd be bummed if they didn't do the thing.
Well IIRC Sol's Dragon Install lasts about 10? seconds in Guilty Gear Xrd. Maybe a bit more. But once the song starts it never ends until the round is finished. Translating this into Smash could be tricky. I just thought about this as a little nice touch, but it would be up to Sakurai, of course.

Dragon Install wouldn't require, at least for me, to have Ride the Fire playing, but it would be cool and would make Sol more unique, just like some of the characters in Pass 1 (Mementos having 3 color variations, the 50 songs that came with Terry, and more).
 

NonSpecificGuy

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But like I said...his popularity on the ballot only resulted in him being an AT. Whereas K. Rool and Ridley were made playable.
That’s definitely fair. I do wonder how popular a Castlevania character was in comparison all things. I mean we all know that K. Rool, Ridley, Banjo, and Isabelle were probably all did pretty well in the ballot. So I wonder if Isaac would’ve been ahead if they had only taken a single character into account. I digress but my point is that Isaac of all Smash characters has stayed the most consistent alongside Ridley and K. Rool not necessarily most popular but consistently topping the Requests for 3 games in a row; Brawl, Smash For, and Ultimate, is a pretty damn good achievement for a niche JRPG if I say so myself.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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And I doubt Square has the time/interest to remake SMRPG too.
Would it necessarily have to be SquareEnix doing the remake? I doubt Nintendo would care enough either, but I wonder if they could just get the rights to do the remake, and then do it.

Heck, if SquareEnix isn't going to do a thing with these characters, then Nintendo could probably do something fun with them if they just bought them. Even if they just got stuck in spin-off heck like everyone else. It'd be better than the abyss they're in now anyway.
 

GoodGrief741

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Sure, he's popular but there's no real point in adding currently unless a new Golden Sun comes out (there have been rumors of a new one, but they're just rumors until confirmed).
Damn we all forgot about all the irrelevant characters that keep getting in huh
Banjo was an exception because Microsoft wants to strengthen their presence in the JP market, and Nintendo had something to gain from it as well.
Uh, where are you getting that Microsoft wants to get a better presence in Japan? And how would including a character they don't make games for in Smash help them?

Also, what does Nintendo have to gain aside from DLC cash? Microsoft already announced they won't be putting more games on Nintendo consoles on the foreseeable future.

Any explanation that makes Banjo any different from any other wanted character falls flat on its face, it's just fanservice plain and simple.
 

SNEKeater

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If today we get a new spirit event, I'm feeling Silent Hill.

I really want that Pyramid Head spirit fight lol.
 
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