Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[PSIGuy]

No but seriously though. I would delete 3 FE characters for 1 Zigludo.

I would burn all the Fire Emblem characters including Sigurd for 1 Arvis.

 

[Cosmic77]

At no point have I said people don't have a right to be disappointed. What myself and other users have been saying is that people should at least try to put themselves out there and try new series.

You're more than likely not going be a fan of them all, and that's okay. I know I tried both Golden Sun and Super Mario RPG because of Smash Speculation, and I enjoyed neither of them. But at least I tried. And that attempt further informs my opinions and gives me something to talk about in regards to Isaac and Geno; a certain depth of emotion and experience that a lot of people lack when talking about characters outside of our little bubble.

And if you can't try the game yourself, do some research and come to your own opinion. Just be informed. A lot of issues in speculation occur because people are either obtuse, ignorant, or some combination of both. People being informed would not only fix those issues, but create better discourse within speculation. Instead of cycling the 5 same topics like this thread does, y'all can pursue interesting thoughts, threads, and ideas, or have actual, informed debates on different characters, both first and third party, instead of screaming matches like they tend to happen here.

There's really no downside to this other than the time cost in researching and experiencing new series, but time is something we all have a lot of nowadays so that's not even an excuse. I don't get why you're so hesitant about this that you'd lay on all of these hypotheticals and what ifs. Like, I really don't think I'm asking too much of people here.

My point has more to do with how much effort people expect out of those who aren't familiar with certain characters, not whether or not they'd try at all.

Obviously it would be nice if everyone could play a game or do thorough research on a character before judging them , but I don't think we need to push it like it's something they're obligated to do literally every single time they don't recognize a character. There are a lot of users here who aren't going to be satisfied by a quick Google search where the person reads a summary of the game and looks at a few pictures.

That's the mentality I don't agree with. If someone tries a small bite of something they've never ate before and decides they don't like it, I'm not going to force them to try half the dish just to see if their opinion changes. Likewise, I'm not going to keep nagging a person to watch walkthroughs on YouTube or borrow my copy of the game, yet I see that mentality all the time in this thread. A person with surface-level knowledge about a character/franchise says something negative, and then you have several users do one of two things: either they'll type some lengthy elaborate post explaining why the person is completely wrong, or they'll make a very sarcastic and demeaning comment meant to belittle the person's opinion, as if that person hasn't met the minimal requirements to say something negative about a character.

 

[Deleted member]

All you have to do is be open to experiencing new series, and it seems a lot of people here just aren't.

I feel that this is an issue with Nintendo fans in general, not just Smash fans. On another forum I'm on, there's people who'll hold the Paper Mario series (especially Super Paper Mario) up as the greatest thing ever made, yet they will refuse to play any other JRPGs despite the fact their main reason for liking games such as SPM is that "it's doesn't feel like Mario". It just baffles me as to why people would refuse to play games that could appeal to them, purely because it's not from their favourite game series or developer, it just limits their experiences. I personally don't think I would've found out about any of my favourite games if I only played games by Nintendo. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy games by Nintendo, there's a reason I'm on this forum, but if I only played games by them then I would probably be sitting here claiming Mario Kart Wii is the greatest video game ever made, while refusing to play other, more skill based racing games despite the fact that's why I like Mario Kart Wii.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Spring Man (Only assist to get promoted)
Crash Bandicoot
Paper Mario (In response to said Mario anniversary especially given rumors of new Paper Mario game)
Axel Stone
Lloyd Irving
Ryu Hayabusa

My new prediction. Probably and likely wrong like everyone else but whatever.

While I do like that you added Axel Stone to this list, I don't think he's going to happen sadly...

I got a fun question: If you could replace the DLC characters with someone else from their series/company, who would it be?
Mine would be:
Plant Gang Koopa Troopa
Joker Skull
Hero Slime
Banjo & Kazooie Conker
Terry Athena (Psycho Soldier)
Byleth idk enough about the fire emblems to say

Piranha Plant Ocarina of Time Link (Legend of Zelda)
Joker Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)
Hero Ark (Terranigma)
Banjo & Kazooie are perfectly fine
Terry Bogard Kyo Kusanagi (King of Fighters)
Byleth Alexandra Roivas (Eternal Darkness)
ARMS rep John Raimi (Geist)

No new characters allowed in my roster, sorry.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

From what i've seen so far, there's many people who are willing to exchange information and share knowledge about various franchises right here, they do it all the time. Since i've joined, i've learned about a ton of new series and characters just by lurking and reading posts (it's almost like if a bunch of different fanbases had merged together for some sort of epic crossover of gaming or something... ).

As for the few people making uninformed/"controversial" statements sometimes, i don't think it should be viewed as a big deal mainly because, at the end of the day, we're talking about... videogames. I mean, if you really think about it, the stakes aren't very high.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I would burn all the Fire Emblem characters including Sigurd for 1 Arvis.

His trailer has him ****ing nuke the FE cast, both FE fans and FE haters cheer

 

[EricTheGamerman]

While Smash is a great way to learn about new franchises, I also don't think it's fair to accuse someone of not being open-minded when they act disappointed about an addition because they hardly know anything about the character or their franchise.

Most of the people in this thread aren't requesting that this pass be comprised of six characters who would introduce them to unfamiliar franchises they may or may not like. People naturally want characters they have a connection with, and when that DLC character doesn't quite accomplish that, it can be hard to get excited. A lot of users here tend to get really defensive over that. They'll say things like, "You need to research the character and learn why they're important!" or "Play the game first because you might like it!" Well, what if they learn more about the character and don't feel like they were all that important in gaming? What if they play the game and decide they don't like it? Are they still wrong for being disappointed?

There is a lot of negativity toward unfamiliar characters; I won't deny that. That being said, I also see a lot of people who are so obnoxiously positive toward unfamiliar characters that they question, tune out, or even silence those who can't appreciate the character the same way they can.

So, what you're saying is me should aim for the more utilitarian goal of including more well known characters from franchises that have sold better since people are more likely to already have a connection with those characters and not require research be done to learn about them!

Also, it's a damn good thing Smash fans aren't the sole arbiters of what is or isn't important in gaming, and there is a metric for that beyond what some fans thinks after they play Dragon Quest for the first time. You can dislike the games all you want, but you don't really get to establish how important that game or series was of your own volition without making an evidence based case on that matter.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

Have to say, about the whole debate about disliking characters because they are from a series that is unknown to them ...
I tried each of the series that got in the fighter pass that I did not play before (So Persona, BK, and KOF), still don't really any of those series for different reasons, but I still tried them, it didn't really change my opinion on any of them though, some people act like if you only played their game, you're guaranteed to love them, but that isn't really true .. You can inform yourself with the series, and still don't really like them

Other than that, obviously people will gravitate toward series they prefer, for the simple reasons that you can't have a MW from a series you don't know, obviously since you don't know it or the characters in it, now when they are annonced/talked about, you can try them and see what they are about, but it doesn't guarantee you will love them, and chances are, you'll still love the characters from the series you've been a fan of for years, over the series you just discovered due to Smash Spec, it seems pretty logical to me

After, there is a way to bring it out, whining about not liking the characters/series isn't cool, you can mention it obviously, but there is a way to go around those things while being polite
On the opposite side of the spectrum, some people act like you killed a member of their family when you say you don't like X Characters/Series that they like, and that's not right either

 

[Dark Bagel]

While I do like that you added Axel Stone to this list, I don't think he's going to happen sadly...



Piranha Plant Ocarina of Time Link (Legend of Zelda)
Joker Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)
Hero Ark (Terranigma)
Banjo & Kazooie are perfectly fine
Terry Bogard Kyo Kusanagi (King of Fighters)
Byleth Alexandra Roivas (Eternal Darkness)
ARMS rep John Raimi (Geist)

No new characters allowed in my roster, sorry.

Banjo & Kazooie now have survivor's guilt as a result of having to watch all their old Fighter Pass friends fade into dust. Congrats, you traumatized them.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

As someone who play a lot of different games (I have right now more than 150 ps4 games and 50 Switch games just to give an idea), I don't think it's really fair to expect Smash fans to play everything that is speculate. I think there's a difference in being open minded and playing every game. We talk here about Nintendo game, playstation game, pc game, sometimes mobile game, from pretty much every genre possible. I think it's foolish to think that everyone will just buy a Fatal fury or King of fighters game just for the sake of speculation.

I think that even if you didn't play the game it's just a question of being open mind or not. Personally, I didn't play most of the Fighter pass character 1 game (never played Dragon quest until DQ 11S released after Hero, never played Banjo or Fatal fury/King of fighters). I don't planned to play any Banjo game because he don't have any recent games and with all of the recent release I don't have time for retro gaming. I'm not a huge fan of versus fighting so I'm not planning to start playing King of fighters. I still think Terry is one of the best addition of the fighter pass because even without playing his game there's other way of knowing who he is, or you could just like the character for his moveset or design.

 

[I.D.]

Honestly I think that there's a lot of posturing when it comes to people who mock others for not being excited about characters they know nothing about. Ultimately the thing that bothers them the most is that others aren't interested in *their* character, not their lack of willingness on research or nintendo supremacists or whatever.

I don't remember a lot of enthusiasm or open-mindedness from these people when Kosmos was the hot topic of the week in December for example.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

People really whining about about Smash representing franchises they've never heard of?

Though I guess it's not like Smash is essentially a giant advertisement or anything, right? Right?

Real talk, I was introduced a lot of my favorite franchises thanks to Smash. Mega Man, Zelda, Rhythm Heaven, that's kinda the charm of the series tbh

Getting a franchise or character you love into smash is cool and all, but at the same time characters and franchises you've never heard of getting in can really help expand your horizons

 

[3BitSaurus]

I feel that this is an issue with Nintendo fans in general, not just Smash fans. On another forum I'm on, there's people who'll hold the Paper Mario series (especially Super Paper Mario) up as the greatest thing ever made, yet they will refuse to play any other JRPGs despite the fact their main reason for liking games such as SPM is that "it's doesn't feel like Mario". It just baffles me as to why people would refuse to play games that could appeal to them, purely because it's not from their favourite game series or developer, it just limits their experiences. I personally don't think I would've found out about any of my favourite games if I only played games by Nintendo. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy games by Nintendo, there's a reason I'm on this forum, but if I only played games by them then I would probably be sitting here claiming Mario Kart Wii is the greatest video game ever made, while refusing to play other, more skill based racing games despite the fact that's why I like Mario Kart Wii.

I don't feel like that's an issue with only Nintendo fans either. For the most part, it's a thing of the past, but I still remember when a lot of people refused to try Nintendo games or consoles a few gens ago because they were "all baby games". Seems to be a remnant from the older console wars, I suppose.

I think many here are forgetting that people are more open to trying new games today than they've ever been, really. And I find it weird that people claim others should be more excited for less conventional choices, yet these same people dismiss the more niche Nintendo characters as "base-roster tier" or only have commonly speculated third parties in their wishlists. It goes both ways.

Anyway, League of Legends rep for Smash, please.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

Have to say one thing about new franchise though ...

Kinda missed having the new Retro franchise in Smash this time around, it was always cool to have this character that was here from a forgotten old franchise like Ice Climbers or Pit, they were cool to have around, and a great way to showcase Nintendo history, yet Ultimate didn't have any of them .. Would have loved to see Lip, or Takamaru becomming playable for exemple
Same for the stage, we got nothing in term of new stages without fighters, things like the Oasis from Ever Oasis, or even something from Chibi Robo since they brought back his Mii Costume, would have been awesome to see !

Too bad Ult skipped on all those little wonders that I liked about Smash ..

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Banjo & Kazooie now have survivor's guilt as a result of having to watch all their old Fighter Pass friends fade into dust. Congrats, you traumatized them.

Wait! Banjo & Kazooie! Your new friends will be way better I promise!

Spoiler

Noooooooooooo!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Have to say one thing about new franchise though ...

Kinda missed having the new Retro franchise in Smash this time around, it was always cool to have this character that was here from a forgotten old franchise like Ice Climbers or Pit, they were cool to have around, and a great way to showcase Nintendo history, yet Ultimate didn't have any of them .. Would have loved to see Lip, or Takamaru becomming playable for exemple
Same for the stage, we got nothing in term of new stages without fighters, things like the Oasis from Ever Oasis, or even something from Chibi Robo since they brought back his Mii Costume, would have been awesome to see !

Too bad Ult skipped on all those little wonders that I liked about Smash ..

I think with Takamaru and Lip (and Ayumi Tachibana) their games were Japan only. Lucas was the exception, largely cause Sakurai assumed Mother 3 would be localized at the time (it ultimately wasn’t, most likely due to censorship and/or music royalties concerns)

People really whining about about Smash representing franchises they've never heard of?

Though I guess it's not like Smash is essentially a giant advertisement or anything, right? Right?

Real talk, I was introduced a lot of my favorite franchises thanks to Smash. Mega Man, Zelda, Rhythm Heaven, that's kinda the charm of the series tbh

Getting a franchise or character you love into smash is cool and all, but at the same time characters and franchises you've never heard of getting in can really help expand your horizons

real talk, Smash got me into Earthbound, F-Zero, Fire Emblem, Metal Gear, Street Fighter and Bayonetta. I was already a Final Fantasy fan before Cloud joined

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think there's a difference in being open minded and playing every game.

I don't remember seeing anyone criticize anyone for doing the latter, it's usually the former because of DQ being a juggernaut alongside a recognizable mascot and influence or people claiming to not having heard of Tekken, DoA or EVO 2019 with the Melee controversy. There's not playing stuff you don't know, but there's also shutting yourself off from anything outside of what you already know, the closest I have to an Atlus game is Devil May Cry 3 yet I knew who Joker was and what game he's from whereas the people being criticized claim they somehow managed to live under a rock and never heard of Persona at all

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

I think with Takamaru and Lip (and Ayumi Tachibana) their games were Japan only. Lucas was the exception, largely cause Sakurai assumed Mother 3 would be localized at the time (it ultimately wasn’t, most likely due to censorship and/or music royalties concerns)

Both Musurame's Mysterious Castle and Panel De Pon (Tetris Attack here) have Worldwide releases
Takamaru specifically is known to cameo in a lot of other games (Mario Maker 2, a Dynasty Warriors and Nintendo Land to quote only a few), while Panel De Pon have been a part of Smash since forever, so nah, they aren't Japan Only, they are just more popular in Japan, but it's perfectly possible for anyone to play their games

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Both Musurame's Mysterious Castle and Panel De Pon (Tetris Attack here) have Worldwide releases
Takamaru specifically is known to cameo in a lot of other games (Mario Maker 2, a Dynasty Warriors and Nintendo Land to quote only a few), while Panel De Pon have been a part of Smash since forever, so nah, they aren't Japan Only, they are just more popular in Japan, but it's perfectly possible for anyone to play their games

You said it though - Tetris Attack. In western releases, all references to Lip and the PDP cast were replaced with Yoshi/Pokémon characters

meanwhile I’m just sitting here hoping for worldwide releases of the Famicom Detective Club remakes. I streamed the translated ROM of II on Twitch once

 

[PeridotGX]

If your most wanted got in what would be their stage? Would it have cameos and who would it be? what might be the potential layout or mechanics to make it stand out?

I have three characters that constantly rotate the number one slot, so I'll do all of them.

Bandana Dee: His stage would be the Dream Palace from Star Allies. It's one of the biggest parts of the game, because it represents the titular allies. It would also be a golden opportunity for cameos, because you could have all the Dream Friends in the background. The stairs alone would provide a unique layout, and a gimmick where you get help from the Dream Friends might work.

Grovyle: There are plenty of options from Mystery Dungeon, but I feel like Wigglytuff's Guild is most iconic, because it's where you spend most of the game. It also has good cameo potential, via all of the members of the guild.

Maxwell: I don't know, maybe Capital City from Unlimited? Scribllenauts is hardly a series I want for the stage.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If your most wanted got in what would be their stage? Would it have cameos and who would it be? what might be the potential layout or mechanics to make it stand out?

Elma: Sylvalum. Has various weather effects from rising energy mist, crimson aurora, spore fog and others.
Octoling: MC Princess Diaries (aka the Final Fest Shifty Station). Cameo of Off The Hook in the helicopter above. Every 30 seconds until the three minute mark, hyperbombs drop on the left and right sides of the stage, can be detonated for an easy KO. once three minutes pass, Pearl descends and whomever reaches her first will get her to whip out the Princess Cannon in whatever direction they’re facing and let out a big grand BOO-YAAAAAAAHHHH!, KO-ing anyone other than the player caught in it (teammates are immune if it’s a team battle and Friendly Fire is turned off)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

People really whining about about Smash representing franchises they've never heard of?

I think we're just talking about such responses.

Too bad Ult skipped on all those little wonders that I liked about Smash ..

Likely both casualties of "Everyone is Here!".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

One major point I meant to put in, but overlooked was the fact that Fighter 6 is an ARMS character. I was honestly more split on the leak after Byleth was revealed, but the ARMS character really sealed the deal for me. These costumes didn't come with Terry, they did not come with Byleth, so what if they came with F6? We already know Sakurai likes to work on 3 DLC fighters at a time. But then F6 turned out to be ARMS.

I pointed this out before in a different post, but if they were still remotely in testing stages by then, they weren't possible to come out with Terry or Byleth. Those both were recorded around June. These guys just barely were presentable by November, months later. So no, they weren't ready to even show. It was ARMS or nothing before ARMS. It could be Challenger Pack 7 too. Honestly I highly doubt they'd be coming if they aren't in ARMS. While I do agree with the idea they could be tied to someone else, that's the timeframe I'd stop giving them the benefit of the doubt. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, though, and have it come with Geno or Doomslayer.

Let's say F6 was delayed from April to June (coinciding with Amiibo changes), that's still a 6 month phase of waiting when the costumes were done at minimum (leak came out in late October). I don't really believe people saying that ARMS was swapped with another DLC character, so that means that before the delay from April to June; Nintendo were still testing these costumes 6 months prior to their supposed earliest reveal. And that's if they come with ARMS, which would be a pretty hard hit against Geno and Doomguy. Byleth already proved that 1st party characters can come with 3rd party mii costumes primarily.

I mean, they'd have to be about ready 4 months earlier. There's no reason to believe they were already even remotely anything but not ready by then with when we got the information. That's kind of a huge jump in time. I could believe realistically what we saw were fairly presentable a month or two early at the most, but we say some clear playtesting. This playtesting came out in November. Why would they ready to present well before August, no less June? That's a pretty big leap. The timeframe only gives us the idea they were literally not ready for any videos in Fighter's Pass 1. Of course this is only going off of when the Leak showed up, but that's all the information we have anyway. There's nothing concrete beyond "still playtested" either way.

However, if these costumes are real; chances are that they're being saved for something else, which would push them even further down the line of DLC. We could very well be waiting nearly a year before these costumes are "officially" revealed at this point. Could they technically come with a playable Geno and/or Doomguy? Maybe, but I still stand by the fact that if this leak is real then security on Nintendo would have had to be uncharacteristically stupid at that point. You would at least think that testing mii costumes would be far more efficient to do on the patch right BEFORE they get unveiled, and not several patches beforehand when any major content update could cause new bugs to emerge (I'm no expert at this, but it makes far more sense). And I doubt Mii costumes warrant 6 months worth of testing. If this leak is true, then I would believe that they are more then likely NOT related to any particular fighter's (although I would still imagine they come with at least a Doomguy and Geno costume at minimum) because I believe Nintendo would go just as hard in securing a particular character's FP content that could hint at the fighter, as they would in securing the character itself.

They clearly are meant for Fighter's Pass 2, so it has nothing to do with "6 months of testing". It's whoever Sakurai and Nintendo wanted to pair them with. November is the remote earliest they were even slightly done playtesting, which even if it was "3 months", they would've first started creation in July, a month after all the recordings were done. Sans' costume was agreed upon about 7 months before it showed up. That was licensed by May alone. We already know that Id Software and Nintendo didn't come to an agreement by September 2018 as well. What they did say is they could potentially continue talking in the second interview on January 2020, showing the talks didn't just "stop" wholesale. The article actually notes nothing has come up at the time, referring only at best to an interview in 2018. That's literally at least a year to come to some agreement at any point. Hence why the whole "hard disconfirmed" thing is meaningless since we lack enough context to suggest they said no for an entire year for any content. That was only clear Doomslayer couldn't get in during the first Fighter's Pass. If we take it at face value, the chances of them getting anything for Fighter's Pass 1 is even lower.

There's no real conclusion but Fighter's Pass 2 at best with their own interviews. There's quite literally no reason to believe it'd be before that. It also doesn't matter when the Mii Costumes started work either. If they're meant for Fighter's Pass 2(the most realistic scenario here), they can sit on them for well over a year and nothing changes. Because they're going to release when Nintendo and Sakurai wants them to release. That's why the timeframe doesn't matter. It's not testing, it's a core plan they have and won't change for the mere sake of it. There's zero reason to throw 'em in earlier. As you said, they could come with anything essentially.

No, I agree on the stupidity being shown. Though as I said, I think they're practically fake due to the video being taken down, not guesses at the idea they can't wait on anything to release(timeframes absolutely lead them to being impossible to even be in Byleth's video. Editing was not going to happen. That's a severe stretch at that point). It's a matter of this; do you believe they were presentable in any halfway decent capacity 4 months earlier than what they were shown? If so, they could've been ready for Byleth's presentation. If not, they were clearly for Fighter's Pass 2. They could've even been licensed in August, July, or early September and still be ready for the leak as well. They could've not been started on content-wise till after all the other Mii costumes were done as well. There's multiple reasons why they'd be ready no earlier than November. Maybe September they were semi-presentable at the earliest, even August... way too late to be part of a FP1. Really, everything leads to them being part of a FP2 character. If it was as early as July they were licensed, it'd still be about 8 months to release them with an April release. Why is that a problem anyway? They couldn't be put on Terry or Byleth unless they were ready by freaking June. So... what else could they be, a bonus video made way after Byleth? That wouldn't even happen. The only reason it takes as long as it does is cause they don't exactly have anything less than about 6 months for a new character to release with. They could take longer if they're tied to anyone but ARMS, but we both outright know Mii costumes don't have a straight pattern. Banjo nor Byleth had a theme. ARMS may not have a straight theme either. So it could easily come with ARMS. About the only thing that's at best implied is that Cacodemon and Mallow are part of the same costume set. I say implied cause they could be from anything in Fighter's Pass 2 but tested together. We really don't know how any of that is done exactly to say much. But the conclusion is mainly "together" cause, well, what else should we think from the leak?

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

You said it though - Tetris Attack. In western releases, all references to Lip and the PDP cast were replaced with Yoshi/Pokémon characters

meanwhile I’m just sitting here hoping for worldwide releases of the Famicom Detective Club remakes. I streamed the translated ROM of II on Twitch once

That is fair enough for Lip .. Most people know who she is now though thanks to Smash, but fair once again, I wish she was in the Worldwide versions, Panel De Pon is a blast to play, and Lip is an awesome character !

Likely both casualties of "Everyone is Here!".

Yeah .. I won't lie, I understand the appeal of "Everyone is Here", and it was cool on reveal, but nowdays .. I feel like it weighted down Smash Ult more than anything .. A lots of weird choices were made due to that (Like the 3 Links), while we got very little new content compared to other Smash games ..

That's why I'm hoping that the next Smash wouldn't be a Reboot, but instead, the kind of game we could have gotten if Smash didn't bother with Everyone is Here, kinda like how the Naruto Ninja Storm made a stop in their sequels to release "Generations" which had all the character, before going for the next entry "Ninja Storm 4" (That's only an exemple though, best comparaison I could think off)

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Have to say one thing about new franchise though ...

Kinda missed having the new Retro franchise in Smash this time around, it was always cool to have this character that was here from a forgotten old franchise like Ice Climbers or Pit, they were cool to have around, and a great way to showcase Nintendo history, yet Ultimate didn't have any of them .. Would have loved to see Lip, or Takamaru becomming playable for exemple
Same for the stage, we got nothing in term of new stages without fighters, things like the Oasis from Ever Oasis, or even something from Chibi Robo since they brought back his Mii Costume, would have been awesome to see !

Too bad Ult skipped on all those little wonders that I liked about Smash ..

I was really hoping that Rhythm heaven would at least have a stage. It felt like a perfect fit for a fun wacky stage. But overall I wish that Ultimate would have a better balance between new and old stages. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see fan favorites back like Brinstar, Corneria, Temple, Fountain of dreams etc. But I just wish that more recent games would also have some stages like Xenoblade X and 2, Mario 3d world, Nintendo land, Mario & Luigi or Donkey kong tropical freeze or Wario land.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

I was really hoping that Rhythm heaven would at least have a stage. It felt like a perfect fit for a fun wacky stage. But overall I wish that Ultimate would have a better balance between new and old stages. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see fan favorites back like Brinstar, Corneria, Temple, Fountain of dreams etc. But I just wish that more recent games would also have some stages like Xenoblade X and 2, Mario 3d world, Nintendo land, Mario & Luigi or Donkey kong tropical freeze or Wario land.

Yeah, I definitly agree with that, my hope for the next one, is that we'll have very little old stages, with a flurry of new one
Just like "Okay, we have this game with a collection of almost all the old ones, now we can move out to the new, and people can replay this one if they want the old stages" you know ?

 

[Knight Dude]

As someone who play a lot of different games (I have right now more than 150 ps4 games and 50 Switch games just to give an idea), I don't think it's really fair to expect Smash fans to play everything that is speculate. I think there's a difference in being open minded and playing every game. We talk here about Nintendo game, playstation game, pc game, sometimes mobile game, from pretty much every genre possible. I think it's foolish to think that everyone will just buy a Fatal fury or King of fighters game just for the sake of speculation.

I think that even if you didn't play the game it's just a question of being open mind or not. Personally, I didn't play most of the Fighter pass character 1 game (never played Dragon quest until DQ 11S released after Hero, never played Banjo or Fatal fury/King of fighters). I don't planned to play any Banjo game because he don't have any recent games and with all of the recent release I don't have time for retro gaming. I'm not a huge fan of versus fighting so I'm not planning to start playing King of fighters. I still think Terry is one of the best addition of the fighter pass because even without playing his game there's other way of knowing who he is, or you could just like the character for his moveset or design.

I wouldn't really ask or require everyone to play a certain game to get why people are hype for them. Outside of "Hey I like this, try it out fam." It's mostly for the fact that information about these characters nowadays are so readily available, and acting like no one gives a **** about them that's annoying, especially when characters they support are arguably more obscure in the grand scheme of things. I haven't touched a Dragon Quest game, but I get that they are a big deal in Japan and that DQ8 did well enough here in the United States I remember seeing ads for it.

I can agree that these types of discussions can horseshoe in the other direction, something I'm worried I contributed to. I don't want to rain on someone's parade too much if they prefer Nintendo characters, but I do feel like the impact of other series get drowned out more than it should. Again, we've had people here question the merit and icon status of Crash and ****ing Pac-Man of all things. Not Terry, not Hero, not Banjo-Kazooie, but Pac-Man.

So generally, being more open-minded would be nice. Not that you have to like each character, I sure as hell would find Granblue or something being mid as hell. And Byleth's currently the lamest of the DLC if you as me. Though I understand other people feel differently. But asking someone to use Google, really isn't a Herculean task.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

If your most wanted got in what would be their stage? Would it have cameos and who would it be? what might be the potential layout or mechanics to make it stand out?

This might be long so I apologise if it takes up space but I can't pass up the opportunity to talk about my favourite series in regards to Super Smash Bros, TimeSplitters!

My most wanted is Sgt. Cortez!

The stage would be the Space Station!

Spoiler: Bigger image and more information

You would mainly be fighting on the platform with the Time Portal but would be extended out a bit so there is more room for more players to fight on. There are walkways surrounding the room and a gap within the circle. You can KO opponents by knocking them down into the gap or you can knock them outwards toward the open parts of the Station.

It could introduce enemies like the TimeSplitters, more specifically the Reaper Splitters.

<-- These guys

They can turn invisible, teleport to different sides of the stage and can shoot out homing lightning bolts at the players. However they can be attacked and KO'd to count towards your score.

... And for cameos, you would see these guys pop out from the Time portal, kind of like Morgana with the Phantom thieves in the Mementos stage

From left to right: Captain Ash, Harry Tipper, R-110, Amy Chen and Jo-Beth Casey (Had to censor her a bit because her shirt contains a no-no word)

So yeah that's what I came up with for what I want to see with Sgt. Cortez if he gets into Super Smash Bros Ultimate's Fighter Pass volume 2 roster.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah .. I won't lie, I understand the appeal of "Everyone is Here", and it was cool on reveal, but nowdays .. I feel like it weighted down Smash Ult more than anything .. A lots of weird choices were made due to that (Like the 3 Links), while we got very little new content compared to other Smash games ..

That's why I'm hoping that the next Smash wouldn't be a Reboot, but instead, the kind of game we could have gotten if Smash didn't bother with Everyone is Here, kinda like how the Naruto Ninja Storm made a stop in their sequels to release "Generations" which had all the character, before going for the next entry "Ninja Storm 4" (That's only an exemple though, best comparaison I could think off)

For me, "Everyone is Here!" was a dream come true, and I'm so glad they did it, even if if we'll ever see it again. While I wouldn't say it would be the right decision moving forward, I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Yeah, I definitly agree with that, my hope for the next one, is that we'll have very little old stages, with a flurry of new one
Just like "Okay, we have this game with a collection of almost all the old ones, now we can move out to the new, and people can replay this one if they want the old stages" you know ?

Keep:

• Battlefield (Battlefield Forms)
• Final Destination (Ω Forms)
• Temple
• Flat Zone X
• A few flat stages for the competitive scene

Then make everything else new. Also make a Pokémon Stadium X, where terrain of all 18 types can show up.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

If your most wanted got in what would be their stage? Would it have cameos and who would it be? what might be the potential layout or mechanics to make it stand out?

Oh I'm interested in responding to that too !

So, my Most Wanted is Midna !

As for her stage .. Well I already wrote a part on what it would be, and on what sort of Hazard we could have when I made her entire Challenger Pack (Moveset, Stage, Spirit Board, Classic Mode and Music), so here is what I Wrote !

Stage :

Midna did not come alone, her whole dimension and Throne Room are now opened to the world of Smash with her! This stage works with a specific gimmick. Like with Wario Ware, the surroundings of the stage occasionally change, teleporting you to the many "Boss Rooms" that Twilight Princess has to offer. Going through the Temple of Time, the Goron Mines, Arbiter's Ground, a room for every dungeon is present! With either the Mini Boss or the Boss of the dungeon there to give you a warm welcome... It then teleports back to the throne room from time to time.

Here is the entire layout of the stage:

-The Starting Room is the Twilight Throne. No hazards, just the calm ambiance of the Twilight in a large flat room, all the different rooms have this layout unless otherwise stated.

-Diababa's boss room is next. Diababa will spit acid at you from time to time, and, using the poison floor from World of Light, the acid will stay on the ground for a moment.

-Danogoro’s room is a smaller platform with a layout similar to Final Destination, but the platform keeps shaking left and right to throw the fighters off.

-Deku Toad battle. Normal battles are suddenly interrupted by the Deku Toad jumping onto the stage to squish the fighters before climbing back onto the ceiling.

-Death Sword’s battle. The sword is unsealed from the beginning, and Death Sword wanders randomly onto the stage, attacking from the background. It cannot be defeated .

-Blizeta is next. In her room, she is already in her Ice Coffin, and is sliding around the whole room, visible in the background. Se sometimes spins onto the stage, sweeping off opponents that are in her way .

-The Temple of Time gets a special room based on ArmoGhoma’s room. The boss is not there, but the statues on the side of the room will activate themselves if an enemy is below them (so at the corner of the room) to deliver a swift punch in front of them.

-Argorock’s Room is next. He flies in the background of the stage, and comes by to either spit flames onto the stage, or to flap his wing, causing a wind that blows the fighters around.

-And finally, we come back to the first room, the Twilight Throne.

This sounded like fun to do hehe, so I took the time to add in the images of the Cameo, I hope that you guys like it !

 

[Garteam]

As someone who wanted Dragon Quest in Smash for awhile (seriously, I have posts from late 2015 talking about Erdrick), it's worth noting that Japan did not think Dragon Quest was very likely. Was it discussed far more than here? Yes, but a lot of people shot down the idea because how complicated getting the rights would be and, funny enough, a lack of international support. Sure, Dragon Quest was wanted in Smash, but it was still a genuine surprise to many (or would've been, had Hero not effectively been an open secret for half a year at that point).

As such, there was far more to people overlooking Dragon Quest than just the "Smash bubble". Yeah, I also think people wrote off Dragon Quest a little too quickly, but trying to look back and say "Dragon Quest was such an obvious choice and we're all idiots for not picking up on it sooner" is bit of an exaggeration.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Here's my perspective on the latest discussion.

On one hand, I am in agreement that it's unrealistic to expect every Smash fan to have played every series or game with a playable character in Smash. I, for one, have done that. I am happy that I have, because with that experience I have gotten to play a ton of different genres, be a part of some great storytelling, and have gathered some awesome perspective on many different series. Granted, the thing is, I'm an exception in playing them all, not the norm.

It is not necessarily helpful to cast a sort of "shroud" on folks who haven't played every game. It's not financially feasible for every Smash player to play every game with a playable character in Smash. Let's face it, I bought a PS3 some time after Brawl because I really wanted to play Metal Gear Solid 4 (I had prior to that purchased Twin Snakes for GCN, which I only got because it was in stock at a GameStop). This, here, required me to have enough cash to actually purchase it. Not everybody has that opportunity, especially with the availability of particular games. I can't necessarily blame folks for that, but I will say many a fan are missing out on some really amazing series, characters, moments, and games in general.

That said, and it may be the teacher in me, I think it is important to consider the act of speculation. The more experience you have, the more interesting the points you can make, the more knowledge you can share, the more possibilities open up as to what can come to Smash.

I can't blame somebody for having interests and sticking to those interests. But then, like, the context we find ourselves in is discussing a crossover series that has roughly 30 series with playable characters that is well beyond the main three series of Mario, The Legend of Zelda, and Pokemon. To be honest, and again I'm not really judging, but those three series, while having a solid cast that could still be added to Smash, have extensive content in Smash already. I say this as someone who loves those three series. They're all Top 10 favorites or mine and most of the reason I love Smash so much.

The frustration can certainly come from the way particular series or characters are suggested as lame or boring, or just flat out mischaracterized. The amount of times I've seen somebody say something that was totally off the mark about Dante, for example, has made me cringe. Like, maybe somebody feels threatened by the prospect of Dante because him getting in means one less slot for their respective character, I don't know.

Frankly, if you want a character from one of those games and that's ALL you want, it seems that you're setting yourself up for disappointment for each pick. I don't know, if your interests as they pertain to Smash are so...small, in context to what's possible, you're more than likely going to be disappointed.

I will say, the fanbase IS more inclusive to non-Nintendo series than it was during Wii U or 3DS. But I personally think there's still work to be done. I understand that most of the Smash fanbase is made up on Nintendo fans. But being a Nintendo fan doesn't mean you can't also be a fan of other incredible non-Nintendo games.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

For me, "Everyone is Here!" was a dream come true, and I'm so glad they did it, even if if we'll ever see it again. While I wouldn't say it would be the right decision moving forward, I wouldn't trade it for anything.


Keep:

• Battlefield (Battlefield Forms)
• Final Destination (Ω Forms)
• Temple
• Flat Zone X
• A few flat stages for the competitive scene

Then make everything else new. Also make a Pokémon Stadium X, where terrain of all 18 types can show up.

Oh and I completly get that, a lot of people liked to see all the characters together in Smash, for me, Everyone Is Here kinda lost it's impact because I'm a Zelda fan before anything, so not only did I not get "Everyone Is Here" because the Links and Zeldas are different, it also made the worst possible decision for their newcomers happen, so it's .. Bittersweet for me, was glad to see PKM Trainer back again though !

And yeah, I absolutly agree with that, "Temple" isn't really needed though, I feel like another Zelda stage based on an actual Dungeon rather than the aproximate idea of one, would be a great replacement instead TBH

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

"Temple" isn't really needed though, I feel like another Zelda stage based on an actual Dungeon rather than the aproximate idea of one, would be a great replacement instead TBH

Sacrilege!

I can see why you don't like it (I don't use it much myself), but I think it'd be weird not having it since it was here since Melee. Plus it's got that sweet sweet moosik. (It's also the only Zelda II: The Adventure of Link representation we'll ever see.)

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

Sacrilege!

I can see why you don't like it (I don't use it much myself), but I think it'd be weird not having it since it was here since Melee. Plus it's got that sweet sweet moosik. (It's also the only Zelda II: The Adventure of Link representation we'll ever see.)

Leeeeeeeeeeeege ! (Sorry, a joke that only fellow french people can understand)

Well .. I guess it would be weird ? I wouldn't mind it much if it doesn't take the place of another Zelda stage, maybe rebrand it as a "Smash Origin" Stage or something ? I wouldn't mind it being there, I just don't really want it over new stages haha
The music is sweet though, we do agree ! And we could get some Zelda II representation if they ever remake it like LA hehe (Also technically the shield gimmick of Link, and Dark Link both originate from this game !)

 

[Freduardo]

*Olimar proceeds to pluck birds instead of pikmin*

Also, I've had a thought as having the Angry Birds as an Assist Trophy for a while. Set up their slingshot on either side of the screen and have random birds launched towards the stage as you fight.

And finally, I got a fun question: If you could replace the DLC characters with someone else from their series/company, who would it be?
Mine would be:
Plant Gang Koopa Troopa
Joker Skull
Hero Slime
Banjo & Kazooie Conker
Terry Athena (Psycho Soldier)
Byleth idk enough about the fire emblems to say

P Plant evolves into... Hammer Bros (promoted assist trophy)
Joker evolves into... Prinny (same company and I prefer Disgaea)
Hero evolves into.... Bub/Bob (Square owns Taito)
Banjo/Kazooie evolves into.... Rash/Zitz (Battletoad)
Terry evolves into.... Metal Slug rep
and Byleth evolves into... Alvis (hooray villains).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think the issue is more with Stages that Sakurai decided to make them from scratch instead of porting a ton over. Some could be considered arbitrary cuts otherwise(Pyrosphere, cause Ridley's playable. On the other hand, disable him if you feel the need to, but they're as different as Duck Hunt on the Duck Hunt stage with Duck Hunt in the Background). Or pretty close to that regard. At least Spirit Tracks' Link is a literal incarnation of Toon Link, so him being removed when Toon Link is there makes sense(the rest of the Links just seem like a "sure why not" at that point).

I'd return as many as possible. If the gimmicks don't mesh well with the Switch, that makes sense if he wants to stay faithful to the stage. I can understand Jungle Hijinxs and Pac-Maze not returning anyway(first one is awkward with Stage Morph, second one requires everyone to have their own screen to work correctly). Of course, the latter is quite a deserving stage. It's the problem with gimmicks. They sometimes depend more upon the system than not. Sakurai being stubborn about it too when it comes to not massively changing anything from the previous game matters too. It's usually cut or slightly update at best. About the only thing that felt like a massive change with Target Smash!! to Target Blast!!, but it also kind of kept a good chunk of its point. They're mini-games, going for the best time, and using your moves in the right way to get all the targets as is and get the best high score. That, and it was a good change for those who need to get all the customs/trophies too. It made for a very easy way to grind. Of course Smash Run existed too. And Classic. And Trophy Rush. They had options. But just a different variety of each.

 

[chocolatejr9]

P Plant evolves into... Hammer Bros (promoted assist trophy)
Joker evolves into... Prinny (same company and I prefer Disgaea)
Hero evolves into.... Bub/Bob (Square owns Taito)
Banjo/Kazooie evolves into.... Rash/Zitz (Battletoad)
Terry evolves into.... Metal Slug rep
and Byleth evolves into... Alvis (hooray villains).

Prinny is owned by Nippon Ichi, not Atlus.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

I know both of these picks are unlikely/impossible due to comments by their respective owners

but

between Master Chief and Doomguy, who do you think would deserve to be the shooter rep more? (you cannot convince me the most deserving rep is not one of these two)

 

[Wademan94]

It’d be nice to see at least a couple stages added in without fighters like in the last game, especially if they made up for some of the cut ones like a Tropical Freeze stage or a Pac-Man Maze stage not based off the 3DS one