Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[ivanlerma]

*Olimar proceeds to pluck birds instead of pikmin*

Also, I've had a thought as having the Angry Birds as an Assist Trophy for a while. Set up their slingshot on either side of the screen and have random birds launched towards the stage as you fight.

And finally, I got a fun question: If you could replace the DLC characters with someone else from their series/company, who would it be?
Mine would be:
Plant Gang Koopa Troopa
Joker Skull
Hero Slime
Banjo & Kazooie Conker
Terry Athena (Psycho Soldier)
Byleth idk enough about the fire emblems to say

Let's be Series
Dry Bones over Piranha Plant
I'd Keep Joker, though i'd love to have Noir
Hero is fine the way he is
Banjo & Kazooie shall stay
Nakoruru over Terry
Tiki over Byleth

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I know both of these picks are unlikely/impossible due to comments by their respective owners

but

between Master Chief and Doomguy, who do you think would deserve to be the shooter rep more? (you cannot convince me the most deserving rep is not one of these two)

I personally think that Doom deserve it a little bit more for being a huge influence on fps and 3d games in general. It's a historically huge franchise and it's still relevant today. Halo is more popular; it has more sales and has more merchandise like books and comics, but overall I feel like Doom is more historically important than Halo and is a pioneer of the genre more than Halo. Of course I wouldn't mind if Master chief is chosen instead of Doom slayer.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

I think the issue is more with Stages that Sakurai decided to make them from scratch instead of porting a ton over. Some could be considered arbitrary cuts otherwise(Pyrosphere, cause Ridley's playable. On the other hand, disable him if you feel the need to, but they're as different as Duck Hunt on the Duck Hunt stage with Duck Hunt in the Background). Or pretty close to that regard. At least Spirit Tracks' Link is a literal incarnation of Toon Link, so him being removed when Toon Link is there makes sense(the rest of the Links just seem like a "sure why not" at that point).

I'd return as many as possible. If the gimmicks don't mesh well with the Switch, that makes sense if he wants to stay faithful to the stage. I can understand Jungle Hijinxs and Pac-Maze not returning anyway(first one is awkward with Stage Morph, second one requires everyone to have their own screen to work correctly). Of course, the latter is quite a deserving stage. It's the problem with gimmicks. They sometimes depend more upon the system than not. Sakurai being stubborn about it too when it comes to not massively changing anything from the previous game matters too. It's usually cut or slightly update at best. About the only thing that felt like a massive change with Target Smash!! to Target Blast!!, but it also kind of kept a good chunk of its point. They're mini-games, going for the best time, and using your moves in the right way to get all the targets as is and get the best high score. That, and it was a good change for those who need to get all the customs/trophies too. It made for a very easy way to grind. Of course Smash Run existed too. And Classic. And Trophy Rush. They had options. But just a different variety of each.

Talking about this .. I could get it for Smash 4, the stage was on the 3ds, and not on the Wii U, so there was a reason to not have the model, but now that a BRAND NEW model was made for the Switch, which goes perfectly with our playable Toon Link .. Why the heck is the conductor outfit not an alt ?

I know the response to that unfortunatly, and it's the same one about a lot of Zelda content in Smash .. "They didn't bother"

 

[HansShotFirst20]

I personally think that Doom deserve it a little bit more for being a huge influence on fps and 3d games in general. It's a historically huge franchise and it's still relevant today. Halo is more popular; it has more sales and has more merchandise like books and comics, but overall I feel like Doom is more historically important than Halo and is a pioneer of the genre more than Halo. Of course I wouldn't mind if Master chief is chosen instead of Doom slayer.

Fun fact: Doom isn't actually 3D. There's some real wizardry involved in getting the the graphic to render in 3D, but when it comes down to the actual processing it's a 2D game.

 

[SNEKeater]

I will say, the fanbase IS more inclusive to non-Nintendo series than it was during Wii U or 3DS. But I personally think there's still work to be done. I understand that most of the Smash fanbase is made up on Nintendo fans. But being a Nintendo fan doesn't mean you can't also be a fan of other incredible non-Nintendo games.

This.
You can be a Nintendo fan and at the same time, being fan of other platforms such as Playstation, Xbox, PC, or a fan of multiple third party companies and non-Nintendo franchises. Metroid Prime is probably my favorite game of all time, DK Tropical Freeze's probably my favorite 2D platformer, I play Smash and visit Smashboards frequently, Fire Emblem is one of the series I've played the most in the recent years, I spent hundreds and hundreds of my life playing Pokémon Emerald when I was younger...
At the same time, Playstation consoles are the platforms I've spent most of my time playing, I'm a Final Fantasy nerd, Halo 3 was one my top games from the previous generation, God of War 2018 is probably the best game I've played this entire generation, my childhood was basically Crash Bandicoot, Sonic and Ratchet & Clank, and I don't want to remember the insane amount of hours of Tekken 3 that I must have played back in the day.

I don't think there's nothing wrong to prefer certain genres or consoles when it comes to gaming. I won't force people to play games or buy consoles for the sake of it. Each people is different and the same for their tastes and interests, and it's okay if you are only a fan of 3 franchises. No one's saying that you must try and be a fan of every game in the world to be a true gamer or something like that, because playing and be aware of every franchise is virtually impossible.

I just think that the point is, there's a lot of cool things in this industry, in every platform and in every genre. If FP7 is, idk, a character from a point and click game (a genre that I've barely played) I won't be upset, I'll probably start looking for info about the fighter or their series because I wanna know more about him. Not knowing a character is completely fine, but at the same time it costs 20 seconds to use Google and do a quick research.
Spamming "literal who" and "no one knows him, give me [insert popular request that probably is only relevant to core Smash/Nintendo fans]" like happened with Hero or Terry is just being obnoxious and proud of your lack of both ignorance and ability to open Google and write a name.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Talking about this .. I could get it for Smash 4, the stage was on the 3ds, and not on the Wii U, so there was a reason to not have the model, but now that a BRAND NEW model was made for the Switch, which goes perfectly with our playable Toon Link .. Why the heck is the conductor outfit not an alt ?

I know the response to that unfortunatly, and it's the same one about a lot of Zelda content in Smash .. "They didn't bother"

Odd thing is he never even got new costumes from these two games.

In fact, his costumes are identical other than 2 more added in 4. I'm not sure if it's a "didn't bother" so much as "fast to port over and reuse the same textures" every time.

Frankly, he doesn't need 3 Green costumes like that. The last one is very close to the first one, so that's easy to change up. However, worth noting that he doesn't even have his extra clothes from Wind Waker. That's two perfect costumes to give him. They'd have to still put the textures for Engineer separately and couldn't reuse the model alone, as it's a low polygon model, but at least the textures could be done.

Yet another set of squandered potential for costumes, really.

...You kidding me Smashboards? I need the links(heh) to work!
https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/7/71/Toon_Link_Palette_(SSB4).png
https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/thum...SSBU).png/1024px-Toon_Link_Palette_(SSBU).png
https://www.ssbwiki.com/images/a/ae/Toon_Link_Palette_(SSBB).png

 

[Rie Sonomura]

*Olimar proceeds to pluck birds instead of pikmin*

Also, I've had a thought as having the Angry Birds as an Assist Trophy for a while. Set up their slingshot on either side of the screen and have random birds launched towards the stage as you fight.

And finally, I got a fun question: If you could replace the DLC characters with someone else from their series/company, who would it be?
Mine would be:
Plant Gang Koopa Troopa
Joker Skull
Hero Slime
Banjo & Kazooie Conker
Terry Athena (Psycho Soldier)
Byleth idk enough about the fire emblems to say

Piranha Plant Elma (both Nintendo)
Leave Joker as is
Hero Neku Sakuraba (Square Enix)
Banjo & Kazooie Ori (Microsoft as a whole)
Keep Terry as is
Byleth Octoling which would still for the most part cause “but they’re too recent!” Outrage

 

[Flyboy]

Thanks!

Also special shout out to Flyboy who was much more confident in an SNK character appearing than I was.

Hey, I appreciate it! Honestly I'm going to take this to the grave as one of those minor achievements I'm inordinately proud of. The day the SNK copyright leaked was incredible especially because I wasn't super hot on all the rumored names until then.

I still can't believe it, honestly. I can say that I have two pipe dream characters in Smash now between Terry and Joker. Nuts.

 

[Mamboo07]

*Olimar proceeds to pluck birds instead of pikmin*

Also, I've had a thought as having the Angry Birds as an Assist Trophy for a while. Set up their slingshot on either side of the screen and have random birds launched towards the stage as you fight.

And finally, I got a fun question: If you could replace the DLC characters with someone else from their series/company, who would it be?
Mine would be:
Plant Gang Koopa Troopa
Joker Skull
Hero Slime
Banjo & Kazooie Conker
Terry Athena (Psycho Soldier)
Byleth idk enough about the fire emblems to say

Piranha Plant Bandana Dee (Kirby)
Joker Kazuma (Yakuza)
Hero Vivi (FINAL FANTASY)
Banjo-Kazooie will stay
Terry Marco (Metal Slug)
Byleth Poochy (Yoshi)

 

[M@R!3]

I know both of these picks are unlikely/impossible due to comments by their respective owners

but

between Master Chief and Doomguy, who do you think would deserve to be the shooter rep more? (you cannot convince me the most deserving rep is not one of these two)

I'm not gonna say anything about one being more deserving over the other because both are pretty important to the FPS genre. Doom for making the FPS genre a mainstream success, and Halo for modernizing the game mechanics via regenerating health, the two weapon system, and making massive improvements to FPS controls on consoles.

In terms of which I think Nintendo would pick, my guess would be Doom. Halo has long since run its course having lost its crown to CoD, while Doom has seen a huge resurgence.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Halo has long since run its course having lost its crown to CoD

CoD nowadays has plenty of competition for the most popular FPS. Including people nostalgic about Bungie-era Halo. This isn't like the later half of the Xbox 360's life where CoD was king.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Frankly, he doesn't need 3 Green costumes like that. The last one is very close to the first one, so that's easy to change up.

Noooo not that one! That one's my favorite! Change the 5th one. That one's an inferior shade of green.

They are references to past links (I think the blue/green one is the only one that isn't but it's the second best one so it's ok), so I get why they exist. Though the Outset and Conductor designs would make for more interesting costumes. If it were up to me, the only ones I'd replace are the classic Link color and the blue/green color. I'd keep the Link's Awakening Link color because it's objectively the best color with no biases whatsoever.

(Though if we were to replace it I would accept Toy Link in its place since I would get to keep the color.)

 

[DarthEnderX]

between Master Chief and Doomguy, who do you think would deserve to be the shooter rep more? (you cannot convince me the most deserving rep is not one of these two)

Doom Slayer. Because Isabelle memes.

 

[RileyXY1]

Fun fact: Doom isn't actually 3D. There's some real wizardry involved in getting the the graphic to render in 3D, but when it comes down to the actual processing it's a 2D game.

The proper term is Binary Space Partitioning. And also, that is why you cannot have rooms on top of other rooms in the vanilla Doom engine.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

The proper term is Binary Space Partitioning. And also, that is why you cannot have rooms on top of other rooms in the vanilla Doom engine.

Wasn't it possible to do that with sneaky teleports, though?

 

[M@R!3]

CoD nowadays has plenty of competition for the most popular FPS. Including people nostalgic about Bungie-era Halo.

Nowadays? Yeah. Back then? Not so much. CoD drove Halo out and held the FPS crown for the rest of the 360/PS3 era.

 

[RileyXY1]

Wasn't it possible to do that with sneaky teleports, though?

Not exactly, but it could be simulated. The Id developers never did this.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

... Well, I don't really want to go on about the FPS discussion personally, but while I respect that both are icons, I also find them to be .. Very poor choices for Smash to be completly honest
Like, I'm sure that Sakurai could manage something, but for the life of me, I can't figure out how their moveset would work at being accurate AND fun, I either see
A. It's accurate, but then it's one moveset that isn't particularly fun to play against, nor to play as after a bit
B. Sakurai let his creativity speaks, and then we'll .. Probably have comments like "But why doesn't he use THIS gun !" or whatever from the Halo/Doom Fanbase

I saw a few Fan moveset .. But they either look gimmicky as HELL, or just really broken, or both (Remember one that made Glory Kills an instant KO for Doomguy if the character was over 120 percent, and it healed him 50 percent when doing that for exemple)
So yeah, I respect the FPS guys, but .. I'm pretty happy none made the jump this far

 

[OnyanRings]

Uh oh, epic leak incoming.

I don't know guys, i think this one might be really real.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Noooo not that one! That one's my favorite! Change the 5th one. That one's an inferior shade of green.

They are references to past links (I think the blue/green one is the only one that isn't but it's the second best one so it's ok), so I get why they exist. Though the Outset and Conductor designs would make for more interesting costumes. If it were up to me, the only ones I'd replace are the classic Link color and the blue/green color. I'd keep the Link's Awakening Link color because it's objectively the best color with no biases whatsoever.

(Though if we were to replace it I would accept Toy Link in its place since I would get to keep the color.)

I don't think he necessarily needs references to the older Zelda games that aren't Toon Link-related. Dark Link in Four Swords Adventures uses the Toon-like design, so that fits. He doesn't need a Blue Ring costume at all(leave that to Young Link maybe? Or regular Link) especially. I'd replace that with the Outset Outfit. The funny thing is his brown outfit, as in the outfit resembling Link from the first game, is the only other one that's kind of "just there". The ALTTP remake along with ALBW uses the more Toon design, so the final costume fits more. But either way, you could replace one of those with his Engineer outfit. He does have more unique hair with his ALTTP/ALBW design(final costume, if that wasn't clear), though. Even if it's just slightly darker than his Zelda 1 alt. On the other hand, his Blue Ring costume looks significantly different from his regular Blue costume. The only one you can barely tell apart is his Zelda 1 costume.

...It's like Cloud problems all over again. XD

 

[Wademan94]

Considering we have a reference to classic Link in the Hero of the Wild costume, I wouldn’t mind if the Conductor costume replaced that one.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I will say, the fanbase IS more inclusive to non-Nintendo series than it was during Wii U or 3DS

Lmao remember when support thread would get shut down for not having enough Nintendo relevance back then? Times changing for the better I'd say.


Also when it comes to FPS games, I don't see it as Doom Slayer or Master Chief being picked over the other as there's clearly enough merit for both, especially as both can play drastically different with ease due to Halo's limited weaponry and the game's slower nature when compared to Doom where everything is a glass cannon and mobility is key to survival

 

[CapitaineCrash]

... Well, I don't really want to go on about the FPS discussion personally, but while I respect that both are icons, I also find them to be .. Very poor choices for Smash to be completly honest
Like, I'm sure that Sakurai could manage something, but for the life of me, I can't figure out how their moveset would work at being accurate AND fun, I either see
A. It's accurate, but then it's one moveset that isn't particularly fun to play against, nor to play as after a bit
B. Sakurai let his creativity speaks, and then we'll .. Probably have comments like "But why doesn't he use THIS gun !" or whatever from the Halo/Doom Fanbase

I saw a few Fan moveset .. But they either look gimmicky as HELL, or just really broken, or both (Remember one that made Glory Kills an instant KO for Doomguy if the character was over 120 percent, and it healed him 50 percent when doing that for exemple)
So yeah, I respect the FPS guys, but .. I'm pretty happy none made the jump this far

I think Doom slayer could have a very straight forward moveset. His game focus more on close range battle than long range so he could use in Smash a shotgun as his main weapon. Down special could be him throwing a grenade, he could use a chainsaw for some neutral moves and his grab and throws could reference the glory kill from Doom 2016.

 

[Wademan94]

Since we’re on the topic, what colors, costumes or alt characters do you want your most wanted newcomers to have?

I’d want Ryu Hayabusa to have both his modern and NES outfit.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I know both of these picks are unlikely/impossible due to comments by their respective owners

but

between Master Chief and Doomguy, who do you think would deserve to be the shooter rep more? (you cannot convince me the most deserving rep is not one of these two)

Ugh, I am so bad at FPS games.

The only shooter I can play is Fallout, and that's solely because of VATS. Trying to aim with a controller is just a recipe for wasting all of my ammo. Seriously, I could teach the Stormtroopers how to shoot. I finish and my screen looks like those old cartoons where you shoot everything but the target.

I really hope the new XBox takes a hint from Nintendo and puts motion control into the controller. At least aiming with Switch is easy since I can just move the controller.

Well, if I had to choose between these two, I'd go with the Chief. Both are important to the genre, but MC is also a Microsoft icon to match with all of the Sony icons in the game already. That and Doomguy is a roadblock for my most wanted as well.

The other thing I'd say about Doomguy is that the game is a bit on the ...over the top violent side. Yeah, they could tone it down, but the violence and gore is a big part of the game as opposed to something like Halo. But I've always been turned off by characters that get shoved in my face at the exclusion of almost everyone else, so I tend to have a bias against the fan favorites on this site that exist to negate discussion - He rocketed to everyone's minds pretty recently, and now people want to see Doomguy cross over in almost every other game - it's kind of getting annoyingly in-your-face by now. I'll admit, Doomguy would fit great in something like Mortal Kombat and he'd be cool there. But Smash? Personally not a fan, for a multitude of reasons.

 

[Mamboo07]

CoD nowadays has plenty of competition for the most popular FPS. Including people nostalgic about Bungie-era Halo. This isn't like the later half of the Xbox 360's life where CoD was king.

And has the most toxic fan base with little whiny kids and salty people that everyone hates.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

I think Doom slayer could have a very straight forward moveset. His game focus more on close range battle than long range so he could use in Smash a shotgun as his main weapon. Down special could be him throwing a grenade, he could use a chainsaw for some neutral moves and his grab and throws could reference the glory kill from Doom 2016.

Well .. Maybe, I'm not against the idea of being proven wrong on that, just that out of all the talks about those two I have, and out of all the fan movesets I read .. I never found one that made a practical use of that, without being overly gimmicky to a point where it just wouldn't even be fun to play

 

[chocolatejr9]

Uh oh, epic leak incoming.

I don't know guys, i think this one might be really real.

Fake. They got Mario's model wrong.

 

[cmbsfm]

And has the most toxic fan base with little whiny kids and salty people that everyone hates.

This could apply to any popular video game franchise, including Smash.

 

[Wademan94]

he could use a chainsaw for some neutral moves and his grab and throws could reference the glory kill from Doom 2016.

Imagine him using the chainsaw for a jab attack...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah, they could tone it down, but the violence and gore is a big part of the game

How to tell someone's only familiar with Modern Doom

Well .. Maybe, I'm not against the idea of being proven wrong on that, just that out of all the talks about those two I have, and out of all the fan movesets I read .. I never found one that made a practical use of that, without being overly gimmicky to a point where it just wouldn't even be fun to play

What do you mean? Most fanmovesets simply use ammo like Hero's MP

 

[Mamboo07]

Imagine him using the chainsaw for a jab attack...

If he does this to my boy Kirby...

There will be H e l l to pay and I will find him, then hunt him, and lastly... K I L L H I M.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Since we’re on the topic, what colors, costumes or alt characters do you want your most wanted newcomers to have?

I’d want Ryu Hayabusa to have both his modern and NES outfit.

For Steve, I think Alex should take up half his alts. Steve could also have an alt. where he’s wearing a tux, and Alex could have one with a dress, or maybe their clothes’ colors would just change. Maybe Steve could have a creeper hoodie alt., too. I’d also like Herobrine, though Mojang has stopped using Herobrine outside of some small cameos and the “Removed Herobrine” jokes due to legal reasons (at least a community manager told me that’s why the Herobrine skins in Bedrock Edition were removed; idk why they can’t claim him as a Minecraft character when his design is Steve with white eyes but eh I guess the original creator and use of him for a Minecraft creepypasta-thing should be taken into account...still weird he appeared in an official video anyway but to be fair he went unnamed and the ocean they were swimming in turned into milk).

For Geno, I just want his Star cape (‘MURICA cape), a Smithy-based alt., a Mallow-based alt. and a green alt.

If Porky gets in, I’d like for him to have his red & black suit as an alt. at least.

Idk for the other characters I want.

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

What do you mean? Most fanmovesets simply use ammo like Hero's MP

Well ... Yes, but they also make him use Ammo for a LOT of moves
Hero was already really hated for being gimmicky, but if his MP Gauge was used for almost all his attacks, and he had a different moveset when he don't have MP .. I think the ban would have passed in some countries haha
And it doesn't particularly sound fun either if you ask me

 

[Cosmic77]

Since we’re on the topic, what colors, costumes or alt characters do you want your most wanted newcomers to have?

I’d want Ryu Hayabusa to have both his modern and NES outfit.

I actually have a picture for this.

 

[osby]

Well ... Yes, but they also make him use Ammo for a LOT of moves
Hero was already really hated for being gimmicky, but if his MP Gauge was used for almost all his attacks, and he had a different moveset when he don't have MP .. I think the ban would have passed in some countries haha
And it doesn't particularly sound fun either if you ask me

You literally just described Robin's moveset (which is pretty fun imo).

EDIT: Also Smash community usually suck at making good movesets so I wouldn't write a character off just because of fan concepts.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well ... Yes, but they also make him use Ammo for a LOT of moves
Hero was already really hated for being gimmicky, but if his MP Gauge was used for almost all his attacks, and he had a different moveset when he don't have MP .. I think the ban would have passed in some countries haha
And it doesn't particularly sound fun either if you ask me

People only hate Hero because they're reactionaries who see Leffen or twitter clips and then proceed to whine, the MP aspect is actually fairly liked, not to mention the idea is that Doom Slayer loses access to gun moves if he runs out of ammo, not a different moveset, you gain ammo by hitting with non-gun moves

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

You literally just described Robin's moveset (which is pretty fun imo).

EDIT: Also Smash community usually suck at making good movesets so I wouldn't write a character off just because of fan concepts.

Robin is done differently, and yes it is fun, he have access to the same moves, just powered down if he loose the Levin Sword, you can't shoot a gun without ammos, and well .. To tie in with the second post ..

People only hate Hero because they're reactionaries who see Leffen or twitter clips and then proceed to whine, the MP aspect is actually fairly liked, not to mention the idea is that Doom Slayer loses access to gun moves if he runs out of ammo, not a different moveset, you gain ammo by hitting with non-gun moves

I just never saw anyone take that gimmick, and make something fun out of it, everything I saw just fitted weirdly .. Like people tried to put as much Doomguy references as possible, without taking into account the playability of the character, or the balance
It's hard to do, I do moveset myself so I know that better than anyone else, but, there IS a fine line between creativity, playability, and accuracy, I just never saw any moveset that even tried to find that line TBH

 

[kirbsmash]

You don't even have to use Hero's Down-B tbh.

 

[Wademan94]

I actually have a picture for this.

View attachment 270374

Is there any particular inspirations for those colors?