Newbie Mafia #2: CAN THE NEWBIES STEP UP AND PLAY A SUCCESSFULE GAME?

[#HBC | Mac]

Page Break Vote Count:

[1]No Lynch: Tusm
[1]Teran: Skyler
[1]KevinM: Marshy
[2]Florida: KevinM, Dekuu
[1]Riddle: Florida
[1]Failchion: Riddle
[6] not voting: Mentosman, Airgemini, Zero Beat, Pierre, Teran, Failchion

It takes 7 votes out of 13 to lynch.
The deadline has been set for the last second of the 31st of July.

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

So we can waste it by having the same three people talk about the same crap we have been?

I'd rather not, you have to realize that you're basically being prepared to join real mafia games in which Deadline Extensions are few and far between.

Use the time we have now to discuss things.

Florida's scumminess

My outing of Marshy's plan

Florida's scumminess

Marshy's plan in general

Vote for Florida

End day1

sounds good right?

I sense a general hatred towards Florida. I also sense an odd need to get toDay overwith. Why is that? Why must toDay end so quickly for you?

 

[Morrigan]

We had a lot of time, it's our fault the game didn't flow that well, people quiting didn't help either.

 

[mentosman8]

Haha he has a point TUSM, in the normal mafia games extensions are hard to come by. I jumped on the bandwagon of asking for one, but if Mac treats this like a normal game, chances are we won't get an extension.

I do agree with Kevin on Florida right now too. Maybe it's just poor metagaming(using knowledge of players style, or other things not related to the particular game you're in) etc to help judge scumminess, but in the time I've seen him, this is the most aggressive he's been. That strikes me as odd because it's such a drastic change, which could very well indicate inexperienced scum. I'm not sure on him, but so far he does seem like one of the more solid choices for a lynch.

 

[KevinM]

I sense a general hatred towards Florida. I also sense an odd need to get toDay overwith. Why is that? Why must toDay end so quickly for you?

I don't hate him at all, don't take personal feelings into a mafia game, it blinds you.

And toDay doesn't have to end quickly, i'd feel more comfortable if we ended it with a lynch for once instead of another D1 tomorrow.

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

I don't hate him at all, don't take personal feelings into a mafia game, it blinds you.

I didn't say anything about personal feelings, I mean, if that's what you got from my post, I guess I could've worded it differently, but that isn't the point I was trying to convey.

I was just saying that you felt rather strongly about lynching him.

 

[Riddle]

I'd really rather end this day with a lynch rather than giving mafia/SK an extra night. I don't think a no lynch is desirable, but to get a lynch we need a majority. I feel the most scummy person right now is Florida, so I'm going to go ahead and vote for him. Unvote, Vote: Florida If my logic is flawed in any way tell me, but for now I think this is better than a no lynch.

 

[KevinM]

Why do you find him scummy?

Metagaming?

Link to certain posts?

Evidence makes your case the strongest.

 

[FAILchion-]

Sorry guys, but I really can't play this anymore. I've been too busy with many things to keep up with this game.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

si gh..

 

[Riddle]

I find Florida the most scummy, because of his over-agression against me, and because his arguments were not well thought out. Heres one of his posts.

Because he's scum. You're scum.

It's bussing/distancing. Obvious scum.

Because you're scum.

Posts like this seeem quite scummy to me.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Hey Macman, I know I'm not a newbie, but I'm willing to replace in if you can't find anyone else.

 

[KevinM]

I find Florida the most scummy, because of his over-agression against me, and because his arguments were not well thought out. Heres one of his posts.



Posts like this seeem quite scummy to me.

He was joking in that post, that was just terrible pressure play.

 

[Nicholas1024]

However, I should mention, that August 7th I go on vacation, and won't come back until the 17th. (I might have internet access, but it's doubtful.)

 

[#HBC | Mac]

oo Nick, thanks but I already found someone. Very much appreciated.

InfernoOmni replaces Failchion... who replaced KawaiiBunny.

The deadline has also been extended till the last second of August 2nd. I didn't want to give this extension, but I feel bad for my replacements. I probably will not give out anymore extensions.

 

[Omni]

Hey guys,

I'll be reading over this thread from the beginning to see what I've missed. Hopefully coming in new will help with me finding inconsistencies in people's posts and attitudes.

 

[Morrigan]

He was joking in that post, that was just terrible pressure play.

I voted him and I feel uncomfortable with my vote. His reaction to my vote didn't show much, like he didn't care. I really don't know what to do

 

[Florida]

I can't explain my "aggressiveness" other than it's how I've been picking up to play; I've recently took about 5 games over at mafiascum, so I've got some new play-styles that I can learn from and I'm trying everything out. @my attack on Riddle, I wanted to see how he would react to an argument so idiotic, and that's pretty much it. I wanted to jump-start discussion.

And it's not that I didn't care about your vote on me; of course I care if I get lynched or not, but I just wanted to support the idea of voting for who you think is most scummy.

 

[Omni]

I don't like to speculate too much. I like to find the quickest path to removing any threats without any randomness and increasing our success percentage so I have deduced the following:

13 Players
1-2 Mafia Goon (2)
1 Mafia Roleblocker (1)
0-1 - Mafia Godfather (1)
1 Doctor
1 Cop
0-1 Vigilante
0-1 Serial Killer (1)
0-1 Survivor (1)
7 Townies (7)
Total: 16 options

Maximum Amount of Threats (Mafia and SK): 5/13
Minimum Amount of Threats (Mafia and SK): 2/13

Maximum Amount of Help (Everyone Else excluding Survivor): 10/13
Minimum Amount of Help (Everyone Else excluding Survivor): 9/14

Recall that these numbers may change because there can only be 1 Vigilante, 1 Serial Killer, or 1 Survivor. I am working on more calculations as we speak.

The Problem: The problem is that we won't know how to move until someone makes the first move. If we stand still and do nothing, the Mafia can slowly break us down unless we have a Vigilante. However, our Vigilante can't make a move until we've pinpointed a solid suspect less we risk them shooting in the dark. Makes sense?

If we DON'T LYNCH anyone tonight then we essential sacrifice one of us (unless they hit a Survivor or the Serial Killer which would be favorable). The % of them NOT hitting us is low because if we do have a Vig then a Survivor and a Serial Killer won't be present. Remember that none of these 3 can exist at once. If a Serial Killer is present, we risk sacrificing 2 of us since the chances of the Serial Killer hitting one of us is very large. Either way, we're screwed.

If we DO LYNCH someone tonight the problem is that we might target our own. If we are wrong in our assumptions, we lynch our own, the Mafia kills another one of us, and the Serial Killer (if present) takes out another one of us. If the Vigilante is with us, he won't be able to pinpoint any suspects.

Those are the facts. Here's what we need to decide on to move on:
1.) Should we lynch today? Yes or no?
2.) If yes, what does our speculations show (since that's our only evidence)? If no, we vote "no lynch" and try to set up any kind of defense if possible.

I DO have my speculations after reading this thread so many times. I feel like I'm saying too much so I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on what I've said so far. If you find a loophole or a problem with it, please let me know. We have to keep our defenses tight, but make sure we aren't too stagnant.

 

[Florida]

You basically just took the obvious and stretched it into a long, pointless post (no offense). We understand the object of the game and all of the possible outcomes there are; what we're looking for from you are any suspicions that you have. Who do you find most suspicious, and why?

 

[Omni]

Didn't know that was common knowledge. =/

Air and Zero worry me the most. They've been really quiet compared to everyone else. When you're quiet, you stay out of trouble and that's a good plan for the Mafia. I feel like they should be investigating or at least pointing out anything that seems odd so that we can observe the right people.

 

[mentosman8]

Also, your numbers are off. Are maximum number of threats are 4, minimum 3. Our maximum number of town aligned is 10, minimum 9. Godfather doesn't add one to the mafia, it would be in place of a goon. Sk can not exist with survivor or vig, only one of the three. So, yeah, lets hear who you suspect instead of telling us the wrong numbers and stating the obvious?(that sounds really harsh reading it back, not meant to be thoughXD)

 

[mentosman8]

Also, I missed your post about air and zero, so the last part is kind of redundant, but I would like to know what you think of the active players. Air got lynched for being kind of lurky in newbie 1, so remember that when considering potential scum, inactivity doesn't always equal mafia.

 

[Morrigan]

I'd like to hear about Airgemini and Zero Beat as well; Airgemini is the quiet type, so I wouldn't suspect that much of him (but still not a reason to be that quiet ), and I don't know where Zero is, he logs to MSN/AIM every day.

 

[Omni]

There's been a lot of odd statements that have been made and it was hard to distinguish people joking and being serious early on.

Florida: Stands out alot. He seems "too" confident at times and then his style of posting changes. This post in particular caught my attention:

If I were Mafia, I'd try to make someone else look entirely suspicious through my killing. For instance, I would kill Marshy to make Kevin seem like the Mafia. Also, after I posted this, that would also make me seem scummy.

What he said in bold makes sense, but to be to willing to make yourself "seem" scummy makes me think he's trying too hard to prove that he's innocent by forcefully portraying himself as a Mafia member. I could be wrong, but it's the biggest comment that left an impression on me. However, this exact post led to me to KevinM:

So we can waste it by having the same three people talk about the same crap we have been?

I'd rather not, you have to realize that you're basically being prepared to join real mafia games in which Deadline Extensions are few and far between.

Use the time we have now to discuss things.
Florida's scumminess
My outing of Marshy's plan
Florida's scumminess
Marshy's plan in general
Vote for Florida
End day1
sounds good right?

Discussing this for as long as possible would be in our best interest, especially since we haven't got much information from Air and Zero. He seems like he was joking a little (hence the exagerration on Florida's "scumminess" twice), but those small jokes could be soft pushes for others to follow closing the day early. We gain nothing from closing the day early without actually obtaining anything from it.

Neither of the two moved me enough to want to push for a vote, but they definitely stood out the most in the not-so-good way.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Mid Page Vote Count:

[1]No Lynch: Tusm
[1]Teran: Skyler
[1]KevinM: Marshy
[3]Florida: KevinM, Dekuu, Riddle
[1]Riddle: Florida
[6] not voting: Mentosman, Airgemini, Zero Beat, Pierre, Teran, Failchion

It takes 7 votes out of 13 to lynch.
The deadline has been set for the last second of the 2nd of August.

 

[Airgemini]

Air and Zero worry me the most. I feel like they should be investigating or at least pointing out anything that seems odd so that we can observe the right people.

I don't have any major suspicions right now, pretty much all of the people that've shown scummy behavior have been pointed out by someone else.

10ch ars

 

[KevinM]

Air that doesn't mean jack ****.

 

[Omni]

Well, we're making great progress here. -_-

If no one is going to debate, why the hell did we need an extension?

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

So our newest replacement can have a good amount of time to catch up......I guess?

What exactly happens if we don't reach a majority vote? Highest vote count gets lynched? No lynch?

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

If we do not reach a majority vote, then it is considered a No Lynch per the rules.

I do not like that Dekuu outrightly stated that he is uncomfortable with his vote on Florida yet he is still voting him. He also regularly notes that we have accomplished nothing for discussion but never promotes discussion himself.

InfernoOmni made a nice promising introduction, though he posted a long of text with very little impact on anything. You did not initially discuss your opinions on anyone, or jump into discussion, but instead simply outlined the setup. As it is an open setup, we all know the roles already, so your speculation is fairly useless. However, I do not think that you are scummy.

If I got to decide the lynch myself, I would choose Dekuu, Zero Beat, or SkylerOcon. None of them have shown any real zeal in discussion or have attempted to really get into the game. Airgemini is a similar case yet I feel that he has regularly kept us updated as to why he is worthless.

I am going to vote: SkylerOcon

 

[Morrigan]

Oh, so I just need to post a clueless "I don't know what to do yet" to be safe from a vote?
I already stated my voting reasons, it's just the lack of discussion that makes me uncomfortable.

Why did you vote SkylerOcon and not Zero Beat or me?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

pierre what are your thoughts on kevin? you said earlier you understood that he needed to be nice to newbies as if that justified the sk thing even though i already covered that. and i'm interested in why you overlooked air too? skyler and zero have both said that they dunno what to think at different points in time which is pretty much what air is doing except he's doing it one thousand times worse

mentos who are you suspicious of? you keep coming in and saying "this is interesting" and "this strikes me too" but i never see you push for anyone despite voting for a deadline extension

air you've implied that you agree with some of what people have been saying when it comes to suspicions but aren't specific about it. if you have no major suspicions then who are those people that you agree with? really have no idea what you're thinking right now

 

[Omni]

I re-read the thread a few more times. Florida's actions have been really awkward and suspicious. The fact that he was the first to question my speculations makes me think he's trying to portray himself too much like a good guy, again. First I noticed this:

If I were Mafia, I'd try to make someone else look entirely suspicious through my killing. For instance, I would kill Marshy to make Kevin seem like the Mafia. Also, after I posted this, that would also make me seem scummy.

I explained this in my earlier post. I re-read the thread and then noticed this:

Alright, I never thought that you were Mafia. I was fishing for reactions, and I don't think that I can squeeze anything more out of you. This game just got so inactive, and there hasn't been enough discussion lately so close to the deadline. Answer some questions?

What do you think about how XACE played? If you weren't his replacement, would he appear to be scummy to you or just newbie?

This was after a series of him calling Riddle "scummy" several times. Dekuu picked up on that strange behavior and voted him for it. Then Riddle followed suit. I really don't understand what Florida was trying to "squeeze" out of Riddle, but his sudden attack was not justified at all. Immediately, he goes into asking him questions about Xace and not anyone else.

Finally, this is what did it in for me:

You basically just took the obvious and stretched it into a long, pointless post (no offense). We understand the object of the game and all of the possible outcomes there are; what we're looking for from you are any suspicions that you have. Who do you find most suspicious, and why?

It doesn't seem suspicious at all, but the pattern I've noticed is that he is the first to jump on both new entrants (including me). The combination of everything I examined led me to believe that his irregular behavior combined with his attempts to come off as a really really good guy makes me weary of him.

Vote: Florida

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

Oh, so I just need to post a clueless "I don't know what to do yet" to be safe from a vote?
I already stated my voting reasons, it's just the lack of discussion that makes me uncomfortable.

Why did you vote SkylerOcon and not Zero Beat or me?

Hmm, the difference between you and Airgemini is that you are consistently posting in an almost passive-aggressive manner. It does not necessarily make you mafia, but you more often than not remark on the status of our activity than what we say. In contrast, Airgemini does what you do minus the comments. In some regards, I find you slightly suspicious and I find that Airgemini should play or be replaced.

pierre what are your thoughts on kevin? you said earlier you understood that he needed to be nice to newbies as if that justified the sk thing even though i already covered that. and i'm interested in why you overlooked air too? skyler and zero have both said that they dunno what to think at different points in time which is pretty much what air is doing except he's doing it one thousand times worse

Well, I still think that the fact that he did not follow along with your Serial Killer setup does not make him suspicious. I still hold that a mafia player would still want to out the Serial Killer, because I still believe that the Serial Killer does just as much damage to the Mafia as he does to the town. And in that statement, I am correct. Some people have mentioned that the Mafia can just allow the SK to take out a townie, but they don't know who he is going to take out, and losing a mafia is many times a degree worse than the degree of good they get by allowing him to kill a townie. Is that clear?

I disagree with InfernoOmni's statements about Florida. There is no such thing as trying too hard to make yourself look innocent - a townie does it just as much as a mafia does, if they value their life in the game. And how can you state that his pressuring of new replacements is 'irregular behavior' if he has done it to every new player? That is a contradiction.

 

[Omni]

I disagree with InfernoOmni's statements about Florida. There is no such thing as trying too hard to make yourself look innocent - a townie does it just as much as a mafia does, if they value their life in the game. And how can you state that his pressuring of new replacements is 'irregular behavior' if he has done it to every new player? That is a contradiction.

The pressuring of new replacements wasn't the only irregular behavior. It was the entire "You're scum," episode combined with the remark "If I were Mafia, I'd try to make someone else look entirely suspicious through my killing. For instance, I would kill Marshy to make Kevin seem like the Mafia. Also, after I posted this, that would also make me seem scummy." This alone was enough for me to cast doubt on him, but not place a vote on him.

I disagree with you. I do believe there is a such thing as trying too hard to make yourself look innocent. It could be desperation to fit in or anxiety to find the mafia. With this speculation by itself, I still would not be able to place a vote on him.

It was the combination of the two that finalized it. Out of everyone so far, Florida seems most suspect to me. I wouldn't cast a vote if I didn't think it was deserved and, to be frank, I believe I've put more thought into my vote more than most people have already.

 

[KevinM]

I don't see where you get off on the assumption that you've put the most thought into your vote as you have me and two others that have had our vote on their for a while. Are you saying perhaps that I threw a dart at the wall for my vote?

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

The pressuring of new replacements wasn't the only irregular behavior. It was the entire "You're scum," episode combined with the remark "If I were Mafia, I'd try to make someone else look entirely suspicious through my killing. For instance, I would kill Marshy to make Kevin seem like the Mafia. Also, after I posted this, that would also make me seem scummy." This alone was enough for me to cast doubt on him, but not place a vote on him.

I disagree with you. I do believe there is a such thing as trying too hard to make yourself look innocent. It could be desperation to fit in or anxiety to find the mafia. With this speculation by itself, I still would not be able to place a vote on him.

It was the combination of the two that finalized it. Out of everyone so far, Florida seems most suspect to me. I wouldn't cast a vote if I didn't think it was deserved and, to be frank, I believe I've put more thought into my vote more than most people have already.

That's interesting.

"If I were Mafia, I'd try to make someone else look entirely suspicious through my killing. For instance, I would kill Marshy to make Kevin seem like the Mafia. Also, after I posted this, that would also make me seem scummy."

Why do you find this scummy? What makes you think that a mafia would say this? Do you think that only mafia would debate night-kill psych? Don't you think that mafia would shy away from making statements like this?

It is a similar situation with his "you're scum, you're scum, you're scum" insistence. You may find it odd, but does that make it something mafia would do? Don't you think that mafia would shy away from that kind of behavior?

Very much WIFOM.

Also, I'm not even going to debate with you whether or not there is such a thing as looking "too townie." You can simply take my word that you are wrong and that it is a logical fallacy.

 

[Omni]

That's my entire point, Pierre. I don't get why you don't get it.

If those behaviors are ones the Mafia should shy away from then wouldn't it be a good idea to exhibit those behaviors?

You're attitude pisses me off. Logical fallacy, my ***. It may not be the most obvious answer, but that's the reason I went after it.

Don't bother responding; I can care less about your almighty and bias view.

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

That's my entire point, Pierre. I don't get why you don't get it.

I don't understand what you mean here, and I would appreciate it if you were more specific.

If those behaviors are ones the Mafia should shy away from then wouldn't it be a good idea to exhibit those behaviors?

That's exactly what I just said when I mentioned WIFOM. If you are going to take jabs at me for having an 'almighty and bias' view, maybe you should educate yourself with regular game lingo.

You're attitude pisses me off. Logical fallacy, my ***. It may not be the most obvious answer, but that's the reason I went after it.

Don't bother responding; I can care less about your almighty and bias view.

You snapped fairly quickly. I didn't do anything to you but cite that I was not going to get into a "too townie" debate because you are wrong and can simply look it on up mafiascum wiki and learn why you are wrong. Bringing that discussion into this thread at this time (right before a lynch) would only distract us from what we should be imminently thinking about. Regardless, you became emotional very quickly. Does my attitude threaten you? Are you stressed?