New Useful Trick With DDD!!!

[SaveMeJebus]

I found this new useful trick with DDD's D-air. I always play against really good DDDs and I know the basics of the character. Full fop D-air is really useful because it is hard to punish. The downside to full hop D-air is that if the opponent shields the first few hits of the move(against short characters), the rest of the hits won't hit them because you jump too high. Short hop D-air would be a great move if it didn't have so much landing lag.

I found a way to get a jump that is right in the middle. Not too high (were most of the move will not hit short opponents) or not too low(were you will get a huge amount of landing lag). The way to do this is to do a buffered double jump. You can either use the jump button and then immediately tap the control stick up(I find this one to be the easiest) or you can just press the jump button twice really fast(you have to be really fast though). By doing this and then immediately doing a D-air, you will get a D-air that will hit the opponents or the opponent's shield with the entire attack (even if they are short) and you land with no lag.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I thought we all knew about this already.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I was watching some recent DDD vids and I never saw any DDDs do it. I've also never seen any of the DDDs I've played against do this(Junk, C Beef)

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Surely I can't be the only person that knew about this.

I played around with this after reading up about the Fair to lagless Dair trick.

If no one else knew about this..then...good **** lol

 

[z00ted]

its official.
Jebus is a troll.

 

[Zwarm]

I know about this, and I use it from time to time, I just find this only useful when people are running at me, and smart players don't just blindly run at Dedede, so it's not super useful, imo.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214984

if you have tap jump on you can c up analog down to SH dair to pick up items tho i dont recommend it


reason they might not of done it is they simply didnt feel the situations they arrived to required such a move

 

[SaveMeJebus]

This isn't short hop F-air to D-air though. It's buffered double jump to D-air.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

We know but we understand the concept also and its been discovered pretty much. Also it's really situational. Not useless but its applications are limited. Might be good as a once in a while mixup while approaching though.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I was watching some recent DDD vids and I never saw any DDDs do it. I've also never seen any of the DDDs I've played against do this(Junk, C Beef)

I'm actually gonna disclose something that I should've disclosed a YEAR ago when I discovered it.
It completely solves all problems with down air if we want to use it efficiently... I'll make a thread/video about this phenomenon when Ihave the time. This thing I'm referring to completely makes any double-jump or shorthop fair to dair inferior. Again sorry ddd boards, I'll have it up.

 

[Tmacc]

Umm, I don't know about you guys, but I can easily fullhop dair (with tap jump), land with no lag, and it catches them. I'm pretty sure that's what I do when I dair. I need to double check that that's what I do (not at my wii right now), but I THINK that's what I do.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

I'm actually gonna disclose something that I should've disclosed a YEAR ago when I discovered it.
It completely solves all problems with down air if we want to use it efficiently... I'll make a thread/video about this phenomenon when Ihave the time. This thing I'm referring to completely makes any double-jump or shorthop fair to dair inferior. Again sorry ddd boards, I'll have it up.

its ok cbeef im guilty of some ****s too

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I'm actually gonna disclose something that I should've disclosed a YEAR ago when I discovered it.
It completely solves all problems with down air if we want to use it efficiently... I'll make a thread/video about this phenomenon when Ihave the time. This thing I'm referring to completely makes any double-jump or shorthop fair to dair inferior. Again sorry ddd boards, I'll have it up.

You son of *****.

lol jk but I would love to see what you have in store for us.

 

[OMG H4X]

i like to use it to lure my opponent into an uptilt. they think its a regular short hop dair or upair, so they run in to punish the landing lag and get tilted. sooo ya, situational i guess.

 

[TlocCPU]

Jebus, I hardcore spammed fullhop downair against you in the set. It's how I catch bananas XD
Man that's still one of the funnest and most intense sets I've played. And good seeing you in downtown LA randomly 2 weeks ago hahaha

 

[Doc King]

Well, good job discovering this! You can use this to improve your metagame with dedede. Also, I actually didn't know about this till you brought it up, thanks.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Jebus, I hardcore spammed fullhop downair against you in the set. It's how I catch bananas XD
Man that's still one of the funnest and most intense sets I've played. And good seeing you in downtown LA randomly 2 weeks ago hahaha

Yes. Iv'e seen players do the full hop but never a double hop. I didn't know that you had a smashboards account. If I did, I would have definitely put you in with the list of best DDDs Iv'e played in Socal.

 

[TlocCPU]

I didn't post much because some random guy named Crashic had a huge problem with anything I had to say XD

 

[∫unk]

double jump d-air is bad because:
1) you can easily accidentally footstool characters, which happens when you're trying to aim the d-air
2) takes away an extra jump (actually matters for recovery, unlike mk)
3) d-air is just not that great of a move without a read... puts ddd in the air, SDIable, significant lag/time where you can't input another action

 

[Tmacc]

Ummmmm. I disagree, Junk.
Dair is an amazing move, I use it a lot. It can cover shield drops after a shbair, and is hard to punish if you do it on the rise. If it land, it puts them in a position for followups. It beats a lot of common move (Shuttle Loop). It does 16 or 17 unsealed. It will NOT be sdi'd most of the time, although sometimes it will be. It's great for dropping off the ledge to punish a recovery below you towards the ledge, and can result in a stage spike.

I think you must be using it wrong/in the wrong situations if you think it's "just not that great of a move." lol

Also, it's great vs Falco. That's one of my favorite MUs, and I like that move a lot in it.

 

[∫unk]

i agree it's situationally good and im biased because i play a mostly ground based ddd

so let me play devil's advocate; you sh b-air (falco shielding) double jump d-air... falco just rolled away... now what? you're in a bad position. that's why i said it's not a great move if you don't have a read.

so while i agree b-air -> d-air is a relatively safe maneuver that covers options, it's just another option that ddd can get destroyed by vs the right opponent.

falco's that get ***** by d-air are in the wrong position. they shouldn't be directly below ddd to be d-air'd... ever (it's a completely losing position for them). they should even be spacing side b so it can't get d-aird or u-tiltd.

my opponents never let me d-air them because they aren't in position to get d-air'd unless they over commit on spacing/get read.

what d-air is really good at is having top tier vertical range (longest in the game for a d-air?) and lasting a long time. it's also really good at getting away from people while attacking them and covering options (ex. when falco moves in and you're not sure if he's going to grab or just wait in shield). even in a ddd ditto it isn't bad when you're playing near the ledge as most of the time the ddd is trying to get grab advantage with spotdodge/rolls to the edge.

i think i understand d-air but feel free to correct me on any of the points i mentioned.

also, falco is a really boring and simple matchup if it's played right, and not worth it imo.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

ive actually Daired falco thru a platform, and timed it so that he got hit by the last 2 hits of Dair. I landed safely on the platform and he was up in the air.

I didnt get a follow up due to the delay, however, i just wanted to be on the ground in that situation.

I do agree with using Dair more as a defensive maneuver is better over approaching EVER with it. I fastfall Dair my opponent if i feel like i need to get back to the stage fast and that usually works for me. Dair is also good for some of the things junk already mentioned DDD mu, spot dodge spammers,and ledge jumps also traps them in it.

I am still very curious as to why i was able to last hit Dair that falco thru the platform...it was a PS1 platform. The basic transformation.

 

[TlocCPU]

As a completely air based Dedede, I have to disagree with you junk, ESPECIALLY against falco. Dair on falco is one of your winning tickets. You can say "What if they roll and then punish you?" for pretty much any move if you think about it. I mean, if you read that somebody is going to use a move of course you can pick the right option to counter it (except when it's metaknight because nothing beats metaknight's moves). The trick is to not excessively spam dair because obviously it's going to be punished.
My top uses for dair:
-Rush trap. If you've discerned an opponents tendency to rush you in an attempt to punish something (most popularly, right after a short hop bair as discussed already), you mix in a dair and they run right into it. This is similar to a Marth up Bing right after a whiffed fsmash. Same kind of thing. OF COURSE if you know it's coming you can avoid it. If you know anything is coming you can avoid it.
-Air camping falco primarily and a lot of other characters. If you have platforms, ESPECIALLY battlefield, smart and correctly placed dairs can stop a lot of characters from touching you. You already know in full detail my air camping strategy on falco and you already know how effective it is for the overall strategy.
-Surprise full hop dair (not on short characters). This is a great tactic on Marth and a few other characters, even falco. A player anticipating an attack will shield you. With my aggressive aerial style, most players shield me a lot. A great mixup is running up and doing a full hop dair instead of a bair. PLAYERS ARE NOT CONDITIONED TO HOLD THEIR SHIELD UP ON THIS MOVE AND YOU CAN GET SOME FREE DAMAGE MOST OF THE TIME. Note: It must be full hopped.
-The double jump dair discussed in this thread but used BECAUSE of the footstool. I don't know if you knew this jun, but you can do this exact tactic and buffer a dair out of the footstool for a free hit. If you get the footstool there's nothing they can do about it. VERY GOOD against short characters.
-SDing. You ever tried to downsmash out of shield only to be barely knocked off stage forcing you to fastfall down air to your death? GAY. It's happened to everyone at least once in their smash career.

EDIT:
also, falco is a really boring and simple matchup if it's played right, and not worth it imo.
^Added for prosperity

 

[∫unk]

As a completely air based Dedede, I have to disagree with you junk, ESPECIALLY against falco. Dair on falco is one of your winning tickets. You can say "What if they roll and then punish you?" for pretty much any move if you think about it.

No, not only is d-air laggy, it puts DeDeDe in the air (more time than say, standing pivot grab). However, I agree with most of your post.

I mean, if you read that somebody is going to use a move of course you can pick the right option to counter it (except when it's metaknight because nothing beats metaknight's moves).

lol

The trick is to not excessively spam dair because obviously it's going to be punished.

Sounds like we're saying the same thing then.

My top uses for dair:
-Rush trap. If you've discerned an opponents tendency to rush you in an attempt to punish something (most popularly, right after a short hop bair as discussed already), you mix in a dair and they run right into it. This is similar to a Marth up Bing right after a whiffed fsmash. Same kind of thing.

I've already mentioned the escape properties (although indirectly).

OF COURSE if you know it's coming you can avoid it. If you know anything is coming you can avoid it.

vvv

(except when it's metaknight because nothing beats metaknight's moves).

-Air camping falco primarily and a lot of other characters. If you have platforms, ESPECIALLY battlefield, smart and correctly placed dairs can stop a lot of characters from touching you.

I agree, but I also would say here that BF is one stage, and can easily be striked. What other stages have a second level of platform(s)?

You already know in full detail my air camping strategy on falco and you already know how effective it is for the overall strategy.

Actually between this and planking that's all I'd really suggest vs Falco. Randomly going on the ground to fight them when you have a read/frame advantage is good as well but most of the time there isn't a point to fighting Falco on the ground.

-Surprise full hop dair (not on short characters). This is a great tactic on Marth and a few other characters, even falco. A player anticipating an attack will shield you. With my aggressive aerial style, most players shield me a lot. A great mixup is running up and doing a full hop dair instead of a bair. PLAYERS ARE NOT CONDITIONED TO HOLD THEIR SHIELD UP ON THIS MOVE AND YOU CAN GET SOME FREE DAMAGE MOST OF THE TIME. Note: It must be full hopped.

Yeah, I stole this from you a while ago

-The double jump dair discussed in this thread but used BECAUSE of the footstool. I don't know if you knew this jun, but you can do this exact tactic and buffer a dair out of the footstool for a free hit. If you get the footstool there's nothing they can do about it. VERY GOOD against short characters.

Every time I've done the footstool d-air they've gotten out because DeDeDe jumps too high on the footstool. I will test this extensively when I have time.

-SDing. You ever tried to downsmash out of shield only to be barely knocked off stage forcing you to fastfall down air to your death? GAY. It's happened to everyone at least once in their smash career.

lol

EDIT:
also, falco is a really boring and simple matchup if it's played right, and not worth it imo.
^Added for prosperity

Larry actually said that to me (or something very close to it).

 

[Dark 3nergy]

i dont think BF is a good place to take falco..your just asking to never land on the ground. Once falco takes center stage your never gonna land on the stage

 

[iamjason8]

Wow! Something I actually knew before! Haha, well this is something I can revisit since I stopped playing D3 some time ago.

 

[TlocCPU]

Your breakdown of my post was awesome XD
We can always fall back on the logic that nothing can beat metaknight's moves hahaha.

@Dark energy: You shouldn't feel so threatened in the air UNLESS there isn't platforms actually. Being on the ground isn't a very big priority from 0-60%, at least for me lol. Your dair beats every single one of falco's moves. It's all just the usual smash guessing game between the two players of reading and reacting to each others moves. Practice practice practice.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

more like patients, patients, patients,

Spoiler

pshielding too!!!

my friend-- something every DDD main must religiously follow lol

 

[TlocCPU]

I was referring to the air game only. Obviously the ground game is nothing but dashing, powershielding, and grabbing.

 

[Kaptain]

I'm sure this is already known, but I find the a dash into d-air is a good mixup against characters that are hard to CGrab, like Luigi. Down throw them then as they go to side step or jab out of your chain grab, your d-airing them and they take damage. Just a good mix-up to think about.

 

[a male platypus]

Tmacc is alive!?

I would say Dair is one of DDD's best moves in doubles. I seem to use it a lot more in doubles than I do singles anyway

 

[Tmacc]

Tmacc is alive!?

I would say Dair is one of DDD's best moves in doubles. I seem to use it a lot more in doubles than I do singles anyway

Yep! I don't play wifi at all anymore though, and go to a TON more offline tournies. How you been broski?

And dair is one of my favorite moves, it's definitely interesting in doubles. Especially the way you can use it to trap people into an opponent followup, even if they DI out of the dair. You can use it to control the stage positionng a lot of times.

 

[Euclid]

Wait, people are claiming that they invented this? Double jumping and doing a Dair has been around since the good ole 64 days. You guys are fucking ********.