Q&A New to Sheik? Look here to learn how to get started/Need help with Sheik? Ask your questions here.

[Rango the Mercenary]

Sign me up for that.

Skype: DurangoX4

 

[JJpalmer]

Skype blazer ike as an ike main shiek secondary i have so much to learn with both lol. Questions i have how does fair to bf work and how does one buffer dthrow into uair i faced SilverFox the other night in an online tourney that was a hopeless match since my shiek is very low level lol

 

[WondrousMoose]

All right, everyone, we have a thread for the Skype group.

Skype blazer ike as an ike main shiek secondary i have so much to learn with both lol. Questions i have how does fair to bf work and how does one buffer dthrow into uair i faced SilverFox the other night in an online tourney that was a hopeless match since my shiek is very low level lol

To avoid a double post, I'll help you here.

To be honest, the answer to both of your questions is the same: just get the feel for her as a character. Ike and Sheik are fundamentally very different. Ike is a bit slow, and Sheik is really fast. Ike has plenty of kill options that hit really hard, and Sheik has to build up damage and get her opponent right where she wants them.

For Fair > Bouncing Fish, the most important part is to get a feel for Fair's knockback, such as where and how far it sends the target. As a rule of thumb, when I feel like I can maybe get another Fair, I like to be safe and BF instead. It hits harder with the drawback of often resetting to neutral. Dthrow doesn't have much ending lag, so you can jump/Uair pretty quickly, adjusting as needed for percentage/rage.

 

[_Tree]

Do you know what those percents might be? Most just do BF, but I feel it's relatively inescapable when I fight Sheik players.

Honestly, finding these percents would require a copious amount of testing, which I don't really have the time or resources for atm. Rage also makes life hell for us testers, as it can often render test data moot due to how much it affects knockback.

A lot of Sheiks do like extending the F-throw > BF percents though, so I'd say your best bet is to DI in and hope for the best. Even then, they can just react with F-air instead of a BF.

 

[JJpalmer]

All right, everyone, we have a thread for the Skype group.

To avoid a double post, I'll help you here.

To be honest, the answer to both of your questions is the same: just get the feel for her as a character. Ike and Sheik are fundamentally very different. Ike is a bit slow, and Sheik is really fast. Ike has plenty of kill options that hit really hard, and Sheik has to build up damage and get her opponent right where she wants them.

For Fair > Bouncing Fish, the most important part is to get a feel for Fair's knockback, such as where and how far it sends the target. As a rule of thumb, when I feel like I can maybe get another Fair, I like to be safe and BF instead. It hits harder with the drawback of often resetting to neutral. Dthrow doesn't have much ending lag, so you can jump/Uair pretty quickly, adjusting as needed for percentage/rage.

Ahh thanks yea i keep thinking of giving up shiek but ive spent soo much time with her i think i just need to work on her with other sshiek players

 

[SlurpySloth]

I have a problem with whenever I play Sheik against my friends. If I beat them, they say; "Oh you used a top-tier, congratulations."
They then proceed to tell me that Sheik is spammy, and requires no skill whatsoever.

How can I prove to them that Sheik requires skill and precision, and is not just a Brawl MK?

 

[WondrousMoose]

I have a problem with whenever I play Sheik against my friends. If I beat them, they say; "Oh you used a top-tier, congratulations."
They then proceed to tell me that Sheik is spammy, and requires no skill whatsoever.

How can I prove to them that Sheik requires skill and precision, and is not just a Brawl MK?

The only way to "prove" it is to have them try to use her. She's not easy, and those who say she is are probably only saying so because they heard it from someone who heard it from someone.

 

[Deleted member]

I have a problem with whenever I play Sheik against my friends. If I beat them, they say; "Oh you used a top-tier, congratulations."
They then proceed to tell me that Sheik is spammy, and requires no skill whatsoever.

How can I prove to them that Sheik requires skill and precision, and is not just a Brawl MK?

I guess you should let him use her.
He will see how hard it is.

 

[SlurpySloth]

The only way to "prove" it is to have them try to use her. She's not easy, and those who say she is are probably only saying so because they heard it from someone who heard it from someone.

I've already tried that. Nine times out of ten, they say, "Well I don't ever play Sheik so it isn't F-air." (Eh?)

 

[SmBootZ]

Hey I have a kind of advanced sheik question. I am hoping that you guys will be able to help me. I have no one to test this on. Ik that Fthrow > buffered jump BF can be air dodged. But does it catch people that try to jump out of it?

 

[SlurpySloth]

Hey I have a kind of advanced sheik question. I am hoping that you guys will be able to help me. I have no one to test this on. Ik that Fthrow > buffered jump BF can be air dodged. But does it catch people that try to jump out of it?

From what I've tested, if you (the attacker) double jump then bouncing fish, it'll catch any jumps that the opponent throws out.

 

[SmBootZ]

From what I've tested, if you (the attacker) double jump then bouncing fish, it'll catch any jumps that the opponent throws out.

that's not quite what i mean. because in that scenario they could just jump and quickly air dodge. what i am talking about is a 50/50 trap. if they air dodge it will miss, but if they try to jump out they will immediately get caught by the BF because jumping is too slow of an option. And this is only applying to Fthrow (the opponent DIs twards you) you jump and BF to catch their high DI.

 

[Kaneki164]

So I decided to pick up Sheik as my pocket character because yolo. My main is Sonic and Roy is my secondary.

I have to a few questions on how to get started with sheik.

-How should I approach?
-What are decent ways to get damage going?
-What nornals should I be using in the neutral?
-What are her kill options(I know she can't kill for sht but does she have any?)
-What is a good way for me to practice her gimping/edge gaurding.?

 

[SlurpySloth]

-What nornals should I be using in the neutral?

Idk, I've never seen anyone use nornals before.

 

[Kaneki164]

Idk, I've never seen anyone use nornals before.

Kappa

 

[HoSmash4]

How do I improve my fair spacing? I feel thats the weakest part of my game

 

[Wasserwipf]

So I decided to pick up Sheik as my pocket character because yolo. My main is Sonic and Roy is my secondary.

I have to a few questions on how to get started with sheik.

1How should I approach?
2What are decent ways to get damage going?
3What nornals should I be using in the neutral?
4What are her kill options(I know she can't kill for sht but does she have any?)
5What is a good way for me to practice her gimping/edge gaurding.?

Ok, let's try this.
1. Basically, Sheik has no need to approach. Throw needles, let them approach. If you want to tho, you have literally all options. Dash in, go for a grab. Shorthop aerial, eg space a fair on their shield and follow up with a jab or something, usually works. SH Nair -> Dtilt. Tomahawk. Dash past them reverse grab or reverse ftilt / utilt to get something startet. Dash in get out throw needles. Just don't get obious.
2. There are lots. Ftils strings, fairplane, Fthrow->bf is the simple stuff. If you want to get more than that, watch this video. Credit for the stuff there is also found there. It has to be said, most of it isn't always true, but mixups is what you want. If you wiff something, nvm, just go on, your fast enough.
3. All? Watch above, else, Jab for fastness (does this even work in english...), avoid rapid jab, ftilt to get a combo startet, utilt to extend stuff or mixups (platforms), dtilt rather rarely, spacing or after a nairlandig, combos at high% into uair.
Her smashes are basically useless, however, you'd be surprised how many opponents you can catch offguard and get - for sheik standards - massive damage out of one hit. Oh and Fair / Fthrow into Usmash (charge the hell out of it, wait for the airdodge, baam) can be great if rarely used.
Usmash works on some platforms as well, BF ans SV eg. Dash in and hyphonsmash if they're landing / camping.
4. There are few. Bouncing Sushi, Dthrow / Fthrow into Uair/ Vanish mixup is a goto option. Vanish gliding, and aerial needle into BF come to mind. Also, Fsmash / dsmash read for the lulz.
5. Literally no idea, play alot, i guess. Play villager.

Hope that helped a bit (and is understandable...)

 

[Verduyn]

Quick thing. Is it possible to cancel needles in the air without airdodging?

 

[ArikadoSD]

Quick thing. Is it possible to cancel needles in the air without airdodging?

You can cancel needles into any special move (bf, vanish, needle itself or side b) but u can't just cancel needles without doing something. Its called needle fidgeting, the inputs are simple but require some timing. While charging needles in the air, press the airdodge button then quickly press the special you want.

 

[_SoRa_]

Hello Guys! I have a question about controller settings. Do you guys tap to jump or X bottom? what setting is better overall? my friends told me that is worse with tap because its harder to do a n-air OoS, what do you guys use and which is better? thanks!

 

[Deleted member]

Hello Guys! I have a question about controller settings. Do you guys tap to jump or X bottom? what setting is better overall? my friends told me that is worse with tap because its harder to do a n-air OoS, what do you guys use and which is better? thanks!

Controller settings are personal preference if anything...although some controller mappings may be more optimal than others.
I use X as my jump for fast OOS options, quick Nairs, and quick Up Airs.
I'd recommend using the X button. Possibly Zair as jump as well for fast Rising Needles, could go L or R but that eliminates you to C-Bounce efficient or at all...

 

[fyrus221]

Hello all you sheiks out there! Basically, I want to be this guy:

I want to do the rising needle storm into nair/whatever, but im not hitting it at all. I tried changing L shield to jump, making the inputs a bit faster than normal, but still not able to do it. Any tips? Ideas?

 

[WondrousMoose]

Hello all you sheiks out there! Basically, I want to be this guy:

I want to do the rising needle storm into nair/whatever, but im not hitting it at all. I tried changing L shield to jump, making the inputs a bit faster than normal, but still not able to do it. Any tips? Ideas?

The trick is to throw out your needles the moment after you jump - just press the two buttons as quickly as you can. That way, even with a full hand of needles, you'll have enough time to throw them out and still act before landing.

 

[I AKU I]

Hello all you sheiks out there! Basically, I want to be this guy:

I want to do the rising needle storm into nair/whatever, but im not hitting it at all. I tried changing L shield to jump, making the inputs a bit faster than normal, but still not able to do it. Any tips? Ideas?

Yeah, you had to change jump to L, R, or Z since its nearly impossible to do otherwise. I find Z-jump easiest, and the trick for me is to input a full hop and needles at almost the exact same time. I'm obviously hitting the jump button first, but that is what it feels like to me.

The follow-ups from rising storm are pretty easy because you can get the nair/fair/BF out by buffering (mashing) the inputs while Sheik is still throwing needles. My advice is to get comfortable doing easier stuff like stationary RS--> BF before trying the combos shown in that video. Once you get the hang of that, try to do it while running and replace the fish with a nair or double jump fair/uair. Other than that, just keep on hitting the lab dude.

 

[Deleted member]

Hello all you sheiks out there! Basically, I want to be this guy:

I want to do the rising needle storm into nair/whatever, but im not hitting it at all. I tried changing L shield to jump, making the inputs a bit faster than normal, but still not able to do it. Any tips? Ideas?

WonderousMoose and I AKU I are very correct on the inputs, etc...but with anything...this stuff simply takes time. Be patient and don't get/be discouraged...learning all of Sheiks Tech doesn't happen overnight!

 

[Hoenn]

To get rising needle combos, I personally hit X with my pointer finger and B with my thumb, never practiced it, never messed it up
Just find a method you are comfortable with, I was already comfortable with this method from maining pikachu for years in brawl and had to full hop AC jolt a lot (and JC turnaround shuttle loop Oos), so it just works for me, but it helps with a lot of precise inputs in this game universally
I don't like the trigger buttons since they are not as responsive, but hey, whatever works for you

Just sit in training mode and figure out what feels comfortable, maybe mess around with controls, these combos aren't really hard if you are comfortable with them

 

[P-Breaker]

Yo guys, which of the two do you prefer? Aerials with the c-stick or with the a-button. Can you also tell my why you choose that specific option? I'm still deciding which one i wanna use.

 

[Simikins]

Yo guys, which of the two do you prefer? Aerials with the c-stick or with the a-button. Can you also tell my why you choose that specific option? I'm still deciding which one i wanna use.

I use a combination of both. For spacing around, I use C-stick so that I can fade back while inputting Fair, and then I use A for combos and fair planes etc.

 

[Wasserwipf]

Yo guys, which of the two do you prefer? Aerials with the c-stick or with the a-button. Can you also tell my why you choose that specific option? I'm still deciding which one i wanna use.

Pretty sure I'm one of the few that actualy use the A button, simply cause i learned it that way and I'm bad at changing habits n stuff. However, the general understanding is, afaik, c-stick is the much better option. Why? Retreating aerials. You can jump away from your oponent while doing an fair.
Well you can move free-er while performing aerials with it so thats pretty mcuh the deciding advantage. Oh and sometimes they're faster. (I use the Cstick for Dairs only... well I played alot of melee falco *caugh*)

 

[WondrousMoose]

Simikins , I'm so glad that gif hasn't died.

Yo guys, which of the two do you prefer? Aerials with the c-stick or with the a-button. Can you also tell my why you choose that specific option? I'm still deciding which one i wanna use.

I use C-stick for all aerials - Fair, Uair, and even Nair. Sheik's aerial mobility is great, and I don't want to do anything to affect it. As others have noticed, though, it's all a matter of personal preference; some people love the C-stick while others just don't like the feel of it. Experiment with it and do what feels best.

 

[ArikadoSD]

I don't think its personal preference to be honest. I actually think the best way is to set c stick to tilts and use it to space fair on shield or in general, then use A and control stick for combos and stuff.

 

[WondrousMoose]

I don't think its personal preference to be honest. I actually think the best way is to set c stick to tilts and use it to space fair on shield or in general, then use A and control stick for combos and stuff.

I'm curious about why you would say it's best and not just your preference.

 

[Simikins]

I'm curious about why you would say it's best and not just your preference.

I guess that's what he thinks is optimal, based on the way the A button and the C-stick work. I think that's the optimal usage, but maybe that's just my preference :]

 

[ArikadoSD]

I'm curious about why you would say it's best and not just your preference.

I believe spacing fair with control stick + A is not possible to the extent that it is with c stick, or if it is, then it's not worth the energy compared to how easily you can do it with c stick.

then for comboing control stick + A is convenient enough to make you draw out fair asap out of a sh with buffering fair during the jump squat animation while holding forward (which also conveniently happens to be the input needed for fair) and pressing A, meaning it's probably faster unless you can move your thumb from A to c stick to draw out a fair as quickly as you can with control stick + A, which I don't believe is worth it considering how easy you can do it with control stick + A.

 

[Hoenn]

I space Fair with the cstick, I Fair string with the A Button

 

[Ping Warrior]

Hey, trying to learn instant rising needles (rising storm) so I can do needles - bouncing fish onstage and generally improve my punish game by incorporating aerial needles, but I can't seem to execute rising needles fast enough to act out of them before touching the ground. Especially while moving since I'm too slow at moving the stick back to neutral for needles.
Most of what happens is I'll do them too late, press jump too quick and do a shorthop, or every once and a while I'll side b. A few hours ago I set my L to jump, but I'm nowhere near used to it. any tips for getting this down?

 

[Simikins]

Hey, trying to learn instant rising needles (rising storm) so I can do needles - bouncing fish onstage and generally improve my punish game by incorporating aerial needles, but I can't seem to execute rising needles fast enough to act out of them before touching the ground. Especially while moving since I'm too slow at moving the stick back to neutral for needles.
Most of what happens is I'll do them too late, press jump too quick and do a shorthop, or every once and a while I'll side b. A few hours ago I set my L to jump, but I'm nowhere near used to it. any tips for getting this down?

Having L as jump makes this much easier. If you press (and hold) L, then immediately, and I mean IMMEDIATELY press special, then it'll work. Hold jump until you've seen the needles throw, and then mash down special.

If you eventually want to learn all of sheik's needle tech, I'd recommend having that spare shoulder button not as jump, but as special. That way you can press X or Y as your jump, then press the shoulder button for the needles. Later along the line you'll be used to that setup, and be able to implement whatever needle tech you want.

 

[Ping Warrior]

I actually used to have L set to special for trying that (still do on my normal tag) though I've never changed what L is on my tag in tournament since I don't use L ever. I'll work on getting used to that then.

 

[Ping Warrior]

Followup question about grounded needles:
If I'm running, start needles, and cancel them instantly with tapping shield, what's the difference in frames it takes to act (say I input ftilt right before cancelling needles) than if I were to run to shield and then drop shield and ftilt? For the purpose of theorycrafting my neutral game

 

[Deleted member]

Followup question about grounded needles:
If I'm running, start needles, and cancel them instantly with tapping shield, what's the difference in frames it takes to act (say I input ftilt right before cancelling needles) than if I were to run to shield and then drop shield and ftilt? For the purpose of theorycrafting my neutral game

INC (Instant Needle Cancel), you can act out frame 7/8.
Shield Flicker, you can act out Frame 19.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si3V9H6_EYs&t=5m23s

Also, for the rising needles question you asked earlier...you can set your Zair as Jump. Reason being is if you place your index finger on Zair, your thumb kinda naturally hovers over the B button.
Could also set L or R set to Specials and use X or Y as Jump.