Q&A New to Sheik? Look here to learn how to get started/Need help with Sheik? Ask your questions here.

[ArikadoSD]

So I've never seen a Sheik FF a Uair to pull me down from the air and combo into jab before. Is it not possible to DI/jump out before I get caught up in the jabs, os that a true combo?

Its not guaranteed, basically.

 

[Duet]

Any advice for d3, projectile heavy characters, and characters that can mash out of combos with their nairs like yoshi and mario?

I feel like D3 might just be a matter of me needing to clean up my conversions and extending my combos, but I find it hard to get in on him without taking damage, even when I am playing incredibly safe.

I also have a bit of trouble getting in on projectile characters. TL gives me the most trouble. Should I just answer back with needles until theres an opening or are there better options?

Characters with good Nairs and Up B's that let them button mash out of combos are also really problematic for me. I am having to hit them like one time then reset back to neutral half the time.

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Any advice for d3, projectile heavy characters, and characters that can mash out of combos with their nairs like yoshi and mario?

I feel like D3 might just be a matter of me needing to clean up my conversions and extending my combos, but I find it hard to get in on him without taking damage, even when I am playing incredibly safe.

I also have a bit of trouble getting in on projectile characters. TL gives me the most trouble. Should I just answer back with needles until theres an opening or are there better options?

Characters with good Nairs and Up B's that let them button mash out of combos are also really problematic for me. I am having to hit them like one time then reset back to neutral half the time.

Any advice is appreciated.

At least for those who can break out of combos easily, you just have to keep that in mind and stay more conservative with your combos. Where you could string 4-5 fairs on someone like DK, you'd want to limit yourself to about 2 on someone like Mario.

 

[I AKU I]

Characters with good Nairs and Up B's that let them button mash out of combos are also really problematic for me. I am having to hit them like one time then reset back to neutral half the time.

Any advice is appreciated.

For characters that like to instantly mash nairs: If you know they are going to do it, try double jumping and throwing needles at em if you have them charged. Otherwise the only advice I can offer you is to not overextend your combos. Its much better to reset to neutral than risk taking damage and losing stage control. Play very patiently, maintain stage control, and pick your spots wisely.

Dealing with the UpB characters (Marth, MK, ZSS) is a lot easier. They all become VERY vulnerable if they whiff their up-Bs. Take note if they are using these moves as combo breakers and OOS options.

PS: I freaking hate Mario.

 

[Darth Tobito]

What should Sheik do in the Luigi matchup? I have a hard time punishing the green plumber and that cyclone attack is really irritating. The only moves I can really punish are just missed B attacks.

 

[Illuminose]

What should Sheik do in the Luigi matchup? I have a hard time punishing the green plumber and that cyclone attack is really irritating. The only moves I can really punish are just missed B attacks.

camp needles and abuse fair on his shield, he can't really do anything against fair especially because of his low traction unless he's got consistent powershields. use fair strings to get him off-stage and gimp him or at least capitalize on his disadvantageous position with ledge/corner pressure. powershield fireballs, keep moving because getting grabbed by luigi espec at low percent can lead to a lot of damage for him. when you're at high percent it's kinda similar to mario (especially because they'll be looking for it more post-patch), watch your jumps in neutral cuz luigi will up smash you and you will die.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I have a few questions, actually. I'm an Ike main trying to study this matchup and was hoping I'd get some help here.

1) At what point does Sheik's grabs no longer combo into Uair, percent-wise?
2) At what percent is Sheik's Uair a kill move on FD/BF on average, or against a middleweight such as Mario?
3) What did Ryuga miss that could have been used to his advantage?

 

[Da_Dook_Hoont]

Yes! now I can Sheik good!

 

[Fatitalianguido]

Hi everybody, after switching mains from falcon to mario to sheik, I feel at home with sheik. Ive been playing since smash Wii U's release and melee for years before that. I play in the chicagoland area at the moment and Im an illinois player. Back when I could make it to more tournaments I could play players on our PR and do reasonably well. Equin0x, currently ranked 19yth on our PR, is considered to be my rival and we always play great matches. Anyways, after getting frustrated with falcon and losing satisfaction from mario, I found sheik. After grinding hours of work into refining my neutral and spending time up in the dojo with sheik I have come out a better player than I have ever been. I Hadnt taken a game off of my PR ranked partner in weeks via wifi and now I can beat him relatively consistently. However, anytime I talk to him he insists that it is my character, that sheik is boring, that I am only winning because I switched, and that Im not on his level. Im just getting very irked at the moment because I am not receiving any of the respect that I know I deserve and no matter what I try to tell my partner in crime, he insists that sheik is braindead and takes no skill. What evidence do I need to prove to him that refining Sheik play is difficult? I just need statements from you guys. I am getting tired of being told that sheik carries me when I have put so much work and dedication into improving my play. I know the hours that I have grinded and I know that I have been working hard. How do I prove to him that sheik is not braindead.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Hi everybody, after switching mains from falcon to mario to sheik, I feel at home with sheik. Ive been playing since smash Wii U's release and melee for years before that. I play in the chicagoland area at the moment and Im an illinois player. Back when I could make it to more tournaments I could play players on our PR and do reasonably well. Equin0x, currently ranked 19yth on our PR, is considered to be my rival and we always play great matches. Anyways, after getting frustrated with falcon and losing satisfaction from mario, I found sheik. After grinding hours of work into refining my neutral and spending time up in the dojo with sheik I have come out a better player than I have ever been. I Hadnt taken a game off of my PR ranked partner in weeks via wifi and now I can beat him relatively consistently. However, anytime I talk to him he insists that it is my character, that sheik is boring, that I am only winning because I switched, and that Im not on his level. Im just getting very irked at the moment because I am not receiving any of the respect that I know I deserve and no matter what I try to tell my partner in crime, he insists that sheik is braindead and takes no skill. What evidence do I need to prove to him that refining Sheik play is difficult? I just need statements from you guys. I am getting tired of being told that sheik carries me when I have put so much work and dedication into improving my play. I know the hours that I have grinded and I know that I have been working hard. How do I prove to him that sheik is not braindead.

Do crazy combos. Look up Deku Tree's videos and practice performing what he shows in them.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Hi everybody, after switching mains from falcon to mario to sheik, I feel at home with sheik. Ive been playing since smash Wii U's release and melee for years before that. I play in the chicagoland area at the moment and Im an illinois player. Back when I could make it to more tournaments I could play players on our PR and do reasonably well. Equin0x, currently ranked 19yth on our PR, is considered to be my rival and we always play great matches. Anyways, after getting frustrated with falcon and losing satisfaction from mario, I found sheik. After grinding hours of work into refining my neutral and spending time up in the dojo with sheik I have come out a better player than I have ever been. I Hadnt taken a game off of my PR ranked partner in weeks via wifi and now I can beat him relatively consistently. However, anytime I talk to him he insists that it is my character, that sheik is boring, that I am only winning because I switched, and that Im not on his level. Im just getting very irked at the moment because I am not receiving any of the respect that I know I deserve and no matter what I try to tell my partner in crime, he insists that sheik is braindead and takes no skill. What evidence do I need to prove to him that refining Sheik play is difficult? I just need statements from you guys. I am getting tired of being told that sheik carries me when I have put so much work and dedication into improving my play. I know the hours that I have grinded and I know that I have been working hard. How do I prove to him that sheik is not braindead.

he insists that sheik is braindead and takes no skill

HAHAHAHAHAHAH
hahaha....
Woo... That's a good one...


But seriously, just tell him to try to use Sheik! She is absolutely not braindead; in fact, most high-level players agree that she's one of the toughest characters to use well. She's light, and she has a really hard time killing unless you know how to handle her.
Rather than get on his level, remind him who's losing.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Tell him to use Ness or Mario, then Sheik, and he'll see what's braindead and what's not for himself. First hand experience beats everything else.

 

[_Tree]

What I want you to do is bring Equin0x to a computer and show him the following videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5VEREaXscw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpgYVgkXT9o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t0_9PFQPwM

After that, hand him a controller and ask him to perform any of the combos shown in the videos. If she's so braindead then he should be able to complete them, no sweat.
In all seriousness though, he should honestly be able to understand the difficulties involved with playing Sheik if he's actually a decent player. Sheik is undoubtedly the best character, with the most amount of options out of the whole cast. This is a double-edged sword however. Having such a large array of options means there's an intense understanding of the character needed in order to understand where and when to use them. Sure, anyone can get off a few F-air strings in a match. Not everyone, however, is able distinguish the drastically different games Sheik must play when fighting a Lucario, or a Rosalina. Would Equin0x be able to tell me when F-air > Bouncing Fish starts working? Or perhaps he'd know what the point of ledge flipping with down-b is? Unless he's studied the character himself, I highly doubt it.

If you need some additional ammo, here's Seagull Joe, the player that beat ZeRo, saying that Sheik is the 4th most technical character out of a cast of 55: https://twitter.com/SeagullJoeSSB/status/652853186231988224
That's got to count for something.

All that being said, you're friend sounds hella salty.

 

[Seagull Joe]

What I want you to do is bring Equin0x to a computer and show him the following videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5VEREaXscw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpgYVgkXT9o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t0_9PFQPwM

After that, hand him a controller and ask him to perform any of the combos shown in the videos. If she's so braindead then he should be able to complete them, no sweat.
In all seriousness though, he should honestly be able to understand the difficulties involved with playing Sheik if he's actually a decent player. Sheik is undoubtedly the best character, with the most amount of options out of the whole cast. This is a double-edged sword however. Having such a large array of options means there's an intense understanding of the character needed in order to understand where and when to use them. Sure, anyone can get off a few F-air strings in a match. Not everyone, however, is able distinguish the drastically different games Sheik must play when fighting a Lucario, or a Rosalina. Would Equin0x be able to tell me when F-air > Bouncing Fish starts working? Or perhaps he'd know what the point of ledge flipping with down-b is? Unless he's studied the character himself, I highly doubt it.

If you need some additional ammo, here's Seagull Joe, the player that beat ZeRo, saying that Sheik is the 4th most technical character out of a cast of 55: https://twitter.com/SeagullJoeSSB/status/652853186231988224
That's got to count for something.

All that being said, you're friend sounds hella salty.

requires patience, mental fortitude, knowing exact percent combos, b-reversals, needle cancels, and up b cancels. I personally CAN do all the tech required (I don't think Smash 4 is a tech heavy game to begin with), but do not have the patience to use her (Getting the kills).

I think vs is either even or 55-45 's favor. I've played MANY 's and the only one that beat me solidly was Vinnie (Game's 2 and 3 were close, but game 1 was bad). The set I lost to Neo (December Xanadu) and Dill (January Nebulous?) a long time ago (Pre-apex?) had highly different factors due to the patches and inexperience by both sides in the matchup. I've also played Zero (Big House), False (The Flex Zone), and Void (Paragon).

 

[I AKU I]

What should Sheik do in the Luigi matchup? I have a hard time punishing the green plumber and that cyclone attack is really irritating. The only moves I can really punish are just missed B attacks.

Everything Illuminose said, but I want to add that Luigi's fireballs are minus on hit. I usually just let his fireballs hit me in close quarters and then jab, f-tilt, or grab Weegee. I wouldn't recommend going for powershields when you are close to him because you are going to get grabbed and receive big damage if you miss. I'd also recommend jabbing the fireball instead if you are further away.

 

[Fatitalianguido]

Holy Cannoli thank you everybdoy for the responses. Ill be sure to show Equin0x what THE Seagull Joe thinks. Im also gonna lab and learn to incorporate some more pivot ftilt to up tilt to **** into my combo game. Thank you everybody. Deku Tree I watch your vids all the time holy **** its so sick that you offered your input thank you

 

[MoosyDoosy]

So what settings do you guys use? Meh, I use tilt C-stick, but not much else. I've been looking into setting Z to jump and turning tap jump off. What do you all do?

 

[Simikins]

So what settings do you guys use? Meh, I use tilt C-stick, but not much else. I've been looking into setting Z to jump and turning tap jump off. What do you all do?

Tilt stick, tap jump off, L as special.

 

[ArikadoSD]

L > jump
x > grab
c stick tilts
tap jump off

 

[WondrousMoose]

So what settings do you guys use? Meh, I use tilt C-stick, but not much else. I've been looking into setting Z to jump and turning tap jump off. What do you all do?

L - Sheild. Default - I'm just used to it
R - Special, which allows me to C-Bounce
Z - Jump for easier aerials/specials right off the ground
Y - Grab for easy dash attack canceled grabs, even though I don't use them much
C-stick - Tilt, since Sheik's smash attacks aren't especially great, and you can't C-bounce otherwise
Tap Jump off - Less accidental jumping

 

[ArikadoSD]

L > jump
x > grab
c stick tilts
tap jump off

guess I should post my reasonings behind the controls.

X for grab is mainly for convenience. I have my index button on R always to shield and its annoying to lift it to Z to grab. C stick is to space fairs without losing momentum, mainly for doing retreating fairs and such. L for jump to do jump cancel usmash or usmash/up b/aerials out of shield as well as rising needles > bf combo

 

[WondrousMoose]

Granted, I am a bit odd in that I have my index and middle fingers up on both sides; my left middle finger just stays planted above L.

 

[Simikins]

I should probably put reasoning as well.
Tilt stick - for PP tilt shenanigans, and doing tilts out of INC
L as special - Lets me c-bounce and Instant Needle Cancel (which basically lets you dash into any grounded move)
Tap jump off - because when I have it on I flub my Dthrow Uair combos.

 

[I AKU I]

Tap jump off, tilt stick, z jump, L grab, R shield

I'm kinda similar to WondrousMoose .
I always keep my middle finger on R and my index on Z. I also tend to keep my thumb exclusively on the c-stick unless I am using specials or smashes. A lot of people find it strange, but my reaction time and control over Sheik has improved tremendously ever since I started playing this way. Might make the change to L as special so I can c-bounce, but am worried that it would throw off my game.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

What I want you to do is bring Equin0x to a computer and show him the following videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5VEREaXscw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpgYVgkXT9o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t0_9PFQPwM

After that, hand him a controller and ask him to perform any of the combos shown in the videos. If she's so braindead then he should be able to complete them, no sweat.
In all seriousness though, he should honestly be able to understand the difficulties involved with playing Sheik if he's actually a decent player. Sheik is undoubtedly the best character, with the most amount of options out of the whole cast. This is a double-edged sword however. Having such a large array of options means there's an intense understanding of the character needed in order to understand where and when to use them. Sure, anyone can get off a few F-air strings in a match. Not everyone, however, is able distinguish the drastically different games Sheik must play when fighting a Lucario, or a Rosalina. Would Equin0x be able to tell me when F-air > Bouncing Fish starts working? Or perhaps he'd know what the point of ledge flipping with down-b is? Unless he's studied the character himself, I highly doubt it.

If you need some additional ammo, here's Seagull Joe, the player that beat ZeRo, saying that Sheik is the 4th most technical character out of a cast of 55: https://twitter.com/SeagullJoeSSB/status/652853186231988224
That's got to count for something.

All that being said, you're friend sounds hella salty.

I seriously think this post needs a sticky.
At the same time, I can understand Equinox's irritation. Having among the best frame data in the game, one of the best projectiles, some of the most useful moves (like Fair and Bouncing Fish) and the most options available, it's very easy to get frustrated about your own character's relative lack of options and abilities.
When he says brain dead Sheik he likely is referring to the typical sheik that needle camps and abuses Fair and fishes for grabs into bouncing fish and Uair/Vanish, just like how people rage about FG Ness/Sonic/ZSS.
Honestly, your post proves that these characters have huge amounts of untapped potential, and all it takes is a bit of creativity and practice to unlock it.
I am still little salty about Sheik's needle camping abilities (Sheik should not be able to outzone Duck Hunt, for example), and her Fair still has stupidly huge range (outranging Marth's sword, wtf), but I can appreciate the effort that Sheik must make in order to be the top tier threat that everyone fears, and that you can't play her on autopilot if you want to win games with high level play.

 

[JJpalmer]

I have a few questions, actually. I'm an Ike main trying to study this matchup and was hoping I'd get some help here.

1) At what point does Sheik's grabs no longer combo into Uair, percent-wise?
2) At what percent is Sheik's Uair a kill move on FD/BF on average, or against a middleweight such as Mario?
3) What did Ryuga miss that could have been used to his advantage?

im an ike main shiek second so im curious as to these questions as well

 

[Sonicninja115]

I am trying to pick up Shiek, and I am wondering if it is possible to play a slighly defensive/punishing style with Shiek. Is this style viable.

I main Mewtwo so I am largely defensive and punishing, but Shulk has taught me more aggressive tactics.

 

[WondrousMoose]

I am trying to pick up Shiek, and I am wondering if it is possible to play a slighly defensive/punishing style with Shiek. Is this style viable.

I main Mewtwo so I am largely defensive and punishing, but Shulk has taught me more aggressive tactics.

Sheik is a notoriously trolly defensive fighter. That being said, you'd have to work even harder than usual because of her limited kill power, and she's already very difficult to use well.

 

[ArikadoSD]

I don't like defensive Sheik because it's basically watching paint dry. But that's not the worst part tho, imo the worst part is that it's hard to even things up if you'll refuse to approach and just rely on needles + punishes, so sometimes approaching is necessary and sheik has the tools to do it so why not?

it's definitely viable but you'll have to make 0 mistakes ever, and if you do you gotta make up for them which is hard without approaching. a more viable option would be getting a big lead then playing defensive, imo that's the best way to play her.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I guess I should elaborate, I don't play extremely defensively. I am a more of a punish/technical player and defensive suits me best.

What I am doing with Shiek is going with a slightly aggressive style. I don't want to be continually chasing down the opponent, but I don't want to be sitting in the corner the entire match. I am thinking of using ZeRo's style, which is a lot hard r to do then say, but more of a safer version of aggression. I don't know how well I am explaining this, but I hope you understand...

 

[WondrousMoose]

ZeRo is interesting to watch because he plays the flow of the fight well, if that makes sense. He has a fantastic sense of when to rush in and when to sit back, and he then does both incredibly well. It absolutely wouldn't hurt to work on your defensive skills - zoning, timing, patience, needle use, etc. - as long as you don't rely on them too much; as Arikado pointed out, you have to play almost perfectly in order to win consistently as a defensive Sheik.

Note: That last sentence is one heck of a sentence, structurally speaking.

 

[Jink8]

How do you kill with Sheik? I can't kill anyone with her. Like I combo then until 200% before a Forward Air or Bouncing Fish kills. Vanish kills also for me however.

 

[_Tree]

How do you kill with Sheik? I can't kill anyone with her. Like I combo then until 200% before a Forward Air or Bouncing Fish kills. Vanish kills also for me however.

http://smashboards.com/threads/killing-with-sheik.417330/

Please check the library to see if a thread on the subject has been made before asking.

 

[Darth Tobito]

Not sure if this was the right place to ask but how do I DI the Meta Knight UAir x4 into Up-B? Can I SDI the first hit of Up-B? My friend likes Meta Knight and started putting in work with him after he started getting better results along with his other mains (Mewtwo and Ganon) falling short of expectations against my Sheik. I'll win neutral most of the time and combo the hell out of him but then he'll punish me hard with that string and I don't know the most efficient way to get out of it.

 

[HoSmash4]

I lost to J Miller 2-1 yesterday. He went mario games 1-2 but switched to luigi. The main thing which really lost it for me was Millers stage control. I really dont know what to do when he shields at the edge and im jlanding onto the stage. If i try to land I''ll get grabbed or shield grabbed. If I go for a ledge situation luigi covers a lot of options with good rewards. Plus it was on battlefield. How do I fight luigi on battlefield? (his counterpick)


Luigi has a lot of control over the platforms so i found it hard to deal with.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Is FThrow -> Bouncing Fish ever not a true combo? It seems to be unavoidable whenever it's used on me, and I wanted to know if it's at all possible to DI it. Ike main, btw.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Is FThrow -> Bouncing Fish ever not a true combo? It seems to be unavoidable whenever it's used on me, and I wanted to know if it's at all possible to DI it. Ike main, btw.

Rage affects the combo a lot so it might not true combo if Sheik has a lot of rage and the target isnt at like 0%.

Other than that, DIing towards Sheik is the best to avoid fthrow > bf and might force the Sheik to settle for something that does less damage like Fair or Uair or something. Not the best idea to DI towards Sheik when you're in kill percent for uair tho.

 

[_Tree]

On Ike:
F-throw > Bouncing Fish will be true until 60% when the opponent DIs away.
F-throw > Bouncing Fish will be true until 5% when the opponent DIs in.
Keep in mind that these percents can be drastically increased if the Sheik uses extenders such as short-hopping before using BF, or running after you as you're thrown forward.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

On Ike:
F-throw > Bouncing Fish will be true until 60% when the opponent DIs away.
F-throw > Bouncing Fish will be true until 5% when the opponent DIs in.
Keep in mind that these percents can be drastically increased if the Sheik uses extenders such as short-hopping before using BF, or running after you as you're thrown forward.

Do you know what those percents might be? Most just do BF, but I feel it's relatively inescapable when I fight Sheik players.

 

[Poopybutthole]

Is there a Sheik Skype Group with active players looking to play?