New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Deleted member]

@ChronoBound: I'd be interested to see your essay expanded to covering Professor Layton and Slime, two other possible third-party candidates.

100% agree with Mega Man being likely. The only thing going against his inclusion is the existence of Ryu and the fact he's third-party. I have high hopes for his inclusion and if his Classic form gets in, as long as Sonic and Snake are in, I will never need another third-party character and I will definitely be maining him. That doesn't mean I would be against other third-party inclusions, thought, as there is a possibility of us getting four third-party reps.

Ryu Hayabusa is my second most wanted third-party character, but unlike Travis Touchdown, developers have yet to show interest in getting Ryu Hayabusa in SSB4. I don't think violence is a problem since Metal Gear is a violent series as well and is as mature if not more so then Ninja Gaiden. I will say it's a shame that very few people want him in SSB4, since I think he has the most potentials for a unique move set next to Mega Man himself.

As for Ryu from Street Fighter, I actually wouldn't surprise if he got into SSB4. At least some part of Capcom have represented interest in SSB4 and if they don't get Mega Man in, this leaves room for Ryu's inclusion. There's also the fact that making a move set for him would be much easier for him, considering that he is regularly part of fighting games and is incredibly famous for them. I'd put his chances are 60%, but fan demands are not very high, which keeps him below Mega Man. If Mega Man gets in, it goes down to practically zilch since I don't think we're getting more then one rep per company (Not a rule, I know, but that's what I consider likely).

Nintendo has already tons of Reps if you count the spin off characters.

Main Series
Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach

Spin off
Wario, Yoshi, Donkey Kong

The only reason I support Toad is because if there is any Mario Reps that needs to be added it's him.

I don't count spin-off series when I talk about Mario reps.

 

[Big-Cat]

People ACTUALLY want Ryu from Street Fighter to be in Smash? I must be on crazy pills. Isn't he like the lamest character to ever be in a fighting game? I can't think of anyone lamer atm. He is so basic and generic I can't fathom why people want him other than the desire to scream "SHORYUKENLOLOLOLOLOLOLIMFUNNY!" While they play.

For whatever reason, people seem to love generic characters. Personally, I'd pick Chun-Li over Ryu.

Here's some interesting trivia for you guys. Out of all the crossovers Capcom has done, Ryu and Chun-Li are the only ones to appear in every single one of them.

 

[ChronoBound]

The reason I did not talk about Slime and Layton is that I don't see Square-Enix and Level 5 as seeing those characters as "fighting material" and hence not even bothering to request Sakurai for their inclusion.

 

[Hoots]

The reason I did not talk about Slime and Layton is that I don't see Square-Enix and Level 5 as seeing those characters as "fighting material" and hence not even bothering to request Sakurai for their inclusion.

The ridiculous amount of money Level 5 would get from the boosted sales after the Smash 4 launch would be appealing to any company. Also, at least someone over there thinks he can fight because in 2009, the official Professor Layton Twitter teased his inclusion in the "Grand Smash Brothers Tournament". While it could be their media guy being a troll, it shows that official people are aware of his potential.

 

[OmegaXXII]

For whatever reason, people seem to love generic characters. Personally, I'd pick Chun-Li over Ryu.

Here's some interesting trivia for you guys. Out of all the crossovers Capcom has done, Ryu and Chun-Li are the only ones to appear in every single one of them.

Yea man, when I learned of that it blew my head off, but wouldn't Chun-Li also be considered "generic" in a sense of this?

 

[ChronoBound]

I think another ace in Toad's pocket is the fact that he is a playable character in the second-highest selling home console video game of all time (New Super Mario Bros. Wii) in Japan. NSMBWii is at over four million in sales in Japan, with only the original Super Mario Bros. having sold more (over six million).

 

[Big-Cat]

The ridiculous amount of money Level 5 would get from the boosted sales after the Smash 4 launch would be appealing to any company. Also, at least someone over there thinks he can fight because in 2009, the official Professor Layton Twitter teased his inclusion in the "Grand Smash Brothers Tournament". While it could be their media guy being a troll, it shows that official people are aware of his potential.

That twitter was a fake.

Yea man, when I learned of that it blew my head off, but wouldn't Chun-Li also be considered "generic" in a sense of this?

How so?

I think another ace in Toad's pocket is the fact that he is a playable character in the second-highest selling home console video game of all time (New Super Mario Bros. Wii) in Japan. NSMBWii is at over four million in sales in Japan, with only the original Super Mario Bros. having sold more (over six million).

I don't think sales mean a whole lot. If the character can't bring anything new to the table or they don't have enough of their own material (i.e. Megaman in MvC3), that hurts their chances more than anything else.

 

[ChronoBound]

I don't think sales mean a whole lot.

Sales might be the best gauge for popularity, especially series popularity.

 

[Big-Cat]

Sales might be the best gauge for popularity, especially series popularity.

Might is the key word. If 10,000 people buy a game, that doesn't mean 10,000 people will like the game or its characters necessarily. You could very have only 6,000 people like the game and its characters. If anything, sales are a potential popularity cap.

As mentioned in the past, popularity isn't THE single factor. After all, how many people wanted R.O.B. and compare that to Krystal and Ridley.

 

[ChronoBound]

Might is the key word. If 10,000 people buy a game, that doesn't mean 10,000 people will like the game or its characters necessarily. .

I think in the case of New Super Mario Bros. Wii for the feedback has mostly been strong. Especially considering that its still hanging in the Top 30 in Japan's weekly sales charts.

Also, I know popularity is not the only cause. If it was only popularity we would have gotten a ton of garbage characters in Smash Bros. by now.

Edit: I don't think its fair to say Krystal as an example of high requests considering that Wolf was just as requested as her.

 

[Big-Cat]

IDK about Wolf and Krystal, but whatever. Either way, I think most of us can agree that Krystal's insane moveset potential shouldn't be skipped. If you want, I can pull up that moveset I made again.

And I just want to say this an let it just end quick. Poison is Capcom's equivalent of Geno. Poison's been asked for in SF4, MvC3, and now SF x Tekken.

 

[Deleted member]

IDK about Wolf and Krystal, but whatever. Either way, I think most of us can agree that Krystal's insane moveset potential shouldn't be skipped. If you want, I can pull up that moveset I made again.

And I just want to say this an let it just end quick. Poison is Capcom's equivalent of Geno. Poison's been asked for in SF4, MvC3, and now SF x Tekken.

I don't think it's really necessary to have Krystal in SSB4. Granted, I do want her in, but it's also partly because Star Fox needs an unique rep and I'd like for Star Fox to have at least two unique reps.

 

[Big-Cat]

Super Smash Bros. is not a Congress. We must extract the word "Representative" and its various abbreviations from our heads for these discussions.

 

[OmegaXXII]

To add to what SBBFan said, she isn't as popular as say Wolf, maybe a tad less, but sure she definetly has undeniable potential to be unique in every way that Falco and Wolf aren't.

I just don't see her replacing both Falco or Wolf considering Starfox already has 3 reps.

 

[Pieman0920]

I don't understand Toad supporters by virtue of the fact that I don't see any appeal in Toad. I mean...he's a mushroom guy who's usual role is to be scared, and not in a Luigi sort of "I'm going to wet myself but I'm still going to do something" but more of a "I'm going to wet myself and just get pushed around while doing it" sort of way. Other than that its just information giving type character. I honestly don't see the appeal in him as a Smash character. Not saying he couldn't by any means, since he's had plenty of roles

Spoiler

where he just copies the Mario Bros' moves

and enough notoriety, but I still don't see it as a good idea.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I don't understand Toad supporters by virtue of the fact that I don't see any appeal in Toad. I mean...he's a mushroom guy who's usual role is to be scared, and not in a Luigi sort of "I'm going to wet myself but I'm still going to do something" but more of a "I'm going to wet myself and just get pushed around while doing it" sort of way. Other than that its just information giving type character. I honestly don't see the appeal in him as a Smash character. Not saying he couldn't by any means, since he's had plenty of roles

Spoiler

where he just copies the Mario Bros' moves

and enough notoriety, but I still don't see it as a good idea.

I believe even if Toad is seen as a "wacky" character to some, there is no denying his popularity and demand for him, but I agree I'd rather see Bowser Jr. or Paper Mario WAY more than Toad.

He should just stay as a B move IMO, not saying he isn't potentially good.

 

[Big-Cat]

What do you guys think of Toad as a tech chaser? He knocks someone down and the opponent is then forced to tech in a certain direction (if he decides to move) and if he guesses wrong, Toad gets them again and the process repeats itself until the opponent gets out. After considering the idea of using the Golden Mushroom as a move for Toad and considering the potential for it thanks to El Fuerte's Habanero Dash, it seems like a good playstyle for him.

 

[Fatmanonice]

For whatever reason, people seem to love generic characters. Personally, I'd pick Chun-Li over Ryu.

Here's some interesting trivia for you guys. Out of all the crossovers Capcom has done, Ryu and Chun-Li are the only ones to appear in every single one of them.

Which is part of the reason why I don't want Ryu in SSB4. He's been done to death and, quite frankly, he's not that interesting to begin with. He's a character that has changed very little since his creation and he plays similarly in every game he appears in.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Which is part of the reason why I don't want Ryu in SSB4. He's been done to death and, quite frankly, he's not that interesting to begin with. He's a character that has changed very little since his creation and he plays similarly in every game he appears in.

Agreed, the idea of saying "Ryu will be in SSB4" will not get much positive reaction as opposed to saying "Megaman will be in SSB4" who will most likely break sales within the first week of release solely due to Megaman.

 

[Conviction]

...So what if he has been done to death. He is Mr.Crossover. If people didn't like it they would have cut him from all the other cross-overs he has been in

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don't see Ryu as a draw because, as Kuma said, he's been in every "VS" game and almost all the fighting games Capcom has ever put out. He's expected. If Capcom makes a fighting game, Ryu is practically guarenteed.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Ryu vs. Megaman

Who will win? Well find out next time on SSB4 thread!!

/out

 

[Deleted member]

My opinion on Ryu from Street Fighter: Not against him, but he can skip SSB4. On the one hand, he obviously has a lot of potential for fighting and represents a genre that has yet to receive rep in SSB4; fighting. Sukapon is probably not getting in, so he's the only choice for fighting characters. However, at least to me, Ryu, like Zoroark, if playable in SSB4, would fall under the category of "Expected, but don't really care about much" category, unlike Mega Man, who would actually be someone special if done correctly.

 

[Big-Cat]

Which is part of the reason why I don't want Ryu in SSB4. He's been done to death and, quite frankly, he's not that interesting to begin with. He's a character that has changed very little since his creation and he plays similarly in every game he appears in.

Saying Ryu's been done to death is like saying Mario's been done to death. And what 's wrong with him playing similarly in each game he's in. He has an already defined, 20+ year old playstyle meaning there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

Saying he's been in a lot of stuff is a really weak argument.

And if you wanna get technical, Chun-Li's been done to death even more and she's WAY more interesting than Ryu (not to mention hotter). IIRC, she's made more cameo appearances than Ryu in various Capcom games and is often alluded to in different games such as Xiaoyu in Tekken who can have her costume customized to resemble Chun-Li.

 

[Barbasol]

But the question is why would Capcom put in Ryu when the fan demand is CLEARLY for Megaman? People aren't begging for a capcom character for the sake of corporate appeal, it's because they want the Blue Bomber himself.

"Hey mom, can I have an ice cream cone? I love ice cream."
"Sure!"
"What? This is a taco."
"I make taco's more often so I gave you one of those instead."

Also, some sick F-Zero tracks:
Night of Big Blue- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ1cNwFvJAs&feature=related
Pico- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWZDMMvbb4Q
Blood Falcon- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4rP7WpfaYg&feature=related

 

[reserk]

if they put ryu instead of megaman i will be furious. i personally dont like ryu as a character.

 

[Conviction]

Ryu's Moveset would be soo easy too LOL

Neutral B: Hadoken
Side B: Tatsumaki Senpuu-Kyaku
Up B: Shoryuken
Down B: Donkey Kick (His wall bounce move)

Up Tilt: Uppercut
Down Tilt: Weak Low Kick
Foward Tilt: Strong Punch
Jab: Random Jab combo from SF

Up Smash: Strong Up Kick
Side Smash: Strong Side Kick
Down Smash: Strong Sweep

Neutral Air: Overhead Punch
Forward Air: Make something up shouldn't be hard as Ryu
Up Air: Aerial Uppercut
Down Air: Drop Kick (The Air combo finisher)

I think Megaman should get in first but Ryu is a strong 2nd. LOL at that analogy, it's bad, because it actually happens.

 

[Shorts]

if they put ryu instead of megaman i will be furious. i personally dont like ryu as a character.

Personally, I don't like either. But don't worry, if any Capcom character gets in, it's Megaman.



I want Jill Valentine in Smash. Not RE5 Jill, but her outfit from MvC2. I love that outfit.

She's a member of the S.T.A.R.S.

 

[Big-Cat]

Ryu's Moveset would be soo easy too LOL

Neutral B: Hadoken
Side B: Tatsumaki Senpuu-Kyaku
Up B: Shoryuken
Down B: Donkey Kick (His wall bounce move)

Up Tilt: Uppercut
Down Tilt: Weak Low Kick
Foward Tilt: Strong Punch
Jab: Random Jab combo from SF

Up Smash: Strong Up Kick
Side Smash: Strong Side Kick
Down Smash: Strong Sweep

Neutral Air: Overhead Punch
Forward Air: Make something up shouldn't be hard as Ryu
Up Air: Aerial Uppercut
Down Air: Drop Kick (The Air combo finisher)

I think Megaman should get in first but Ryu is a strong 2nd. LOL at that analogy, it's bad, because it actually happens.

Lol Chun-Li is just as easy.

B: Kikoken
Side B: Hazanshu
Up B: Tenshoukyaku
Down B: Spinning Bird Kick

AAA: s.LP, s.LK, Hyakuretsukyaku
UTilt:s.HK
FTilt: s.MP
Dtilt: cr.MP

USmash: I forget the name of it, but it's also her launcher in the vs. games.
FSmash: cl.FP
DSmash: cr.HK

NAir: jf.MK
FAir: j.HP chain
UAir: Air version of her cr.f.LK
DAir: Pogo Kicks

Final Smash: Hoyouku-Sen, Kikoushou, or Hosenka.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Saying Ryu's been done to death is like saying Mario's been done to death. And what 's wrong with him playing similarly in each game he's in. He has an already defined, 20+ year old playstyle meaning there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

Saying he's been in a lot of stuff is a really weak argument.

Mario's different though because he's been in every major genre except for FPS's. It's not really a matter of him just being in a lot of stuff, it's a matter of him staying virtually the same, installment after installment. In a sense, the character has never really evolved. If you look at characters like Sonic, Snake, and Megaman and compare how they are now to how they were in their first game, you'd see where I'm going with this. Ryu represents a big part of gaming history but the character itself really doesn't have much of a history himself. He's in a lot of games, sure, but in a game like Smash Bros that celebrates the histories of characters, Ryu really doesn't bring much to the table. His "history" is basically an endless stream of playable cameos.

Also, let's face it, Ryu has never exceeded past the "I'm going to be the strongest fighter EVAR" archetype when it comes to character development. At his roots, he's down right generic and could just as easily be swapped with the lead character of a vast majority of shonen. I suppose you could make the same arguements against Pikachu and Yoshi but the thing with them is that they are part of a species and they are expected to be similar.

 

[Deleted member]

@KumaOso and xIblisx: See, that's why Ryu has a chance. Because in comparison to Mega Man, making a move set on him is effortless. That doesn't mean he should be in, thought.

 

[Conviction]

Oso, Pugo kicks are so gay, especially in SFII

 

[Fatmanonice]

Also, I think Ryu's inclusion would be miserably ironic because Smash Bros was deliberately designed to break away from the gameplay of traditional fighters.

 

[Pieman0920]

The problem with Ryu is that Mario essentially took his moveset from the very beginning. Hadoken? Fireball. Shoryuken? Super Jump Punch. Tatsumaki? Mario Tornado. Its already been done!

But really though, Ryu's dull at this point, and there really aren't that many people suggesting him, especially compared to Megaman.

 

[Starphoenix]

The reason I did not talk about Slime and Layton is that I don't see Square-Enix and Level 5 as seeing those characters as "fighting material" and hence not even bothering to request Sakurai for their inclusion.

True, if we had any Dragon Quest representation the most I would expect would be a stage. As a way to represent the series without having to go much more beyond that. I'd love Slime and think he could work well if done right, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

But the question is why would Capcom put in Ryu when the fan demand is CLEARLY for Megaman? People aren't begging for a capcom character for the sake of corporate appeal, it's because they want the Blue Bomber himself.

"Hey mom, can I have an ice cream cone? I love ice cream."
"Sure!"
"What? This is a taco."
"I make taco's more often so I gave you one of those instead."

Also, some sick F-Zero tracks:
Night of Big Blue- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ1cNwFvJAs&feature=related
Pico- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWZDMMvbb4Q
Blood Falcon- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4rP7WpfaYg&feature=related

Thanks for summing up my opinion. Also, this is the best F-Zero GX track hands down.

F-Zero GX - Fire Field 2

 

[Big-Cat]

@Fatman
There's another key difference between Mario and Ryu. Mario was designed from the very beginning to be a character that could work in different types of games and not feel entirely out of place. Ryu, on the other hand, was made as a character for a fighting game. The fact that we never see him outside of his gi (save for his alt. costumes) should be an indicator for this. Ryu doesn't need to "evolve" in that sense because he really only needs to do what he needs to do, fight.

And even then, a number of characters in the SF cast are way more flexible in their designs in that Capcom can expand on them. Chun-Li could have action game all to her self (and she does in the form of a pachinko game); C. Viper can have a stealth game; Guile can have an arcade air shooter. Those will probably never happen, but they are way more flexible in terms of story and design (the only exceptions, IMO, are M. Bison and Seth). Incidentally, these three example characters have developed significantly since their debuts.

@Iblis
I hate that word when its used like that. No offense, but using gay like that just gives me the impression someone is immature enough to use that word like that. And besides, her pogo kicks are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY worse in MvC3.

Also, look at what the Project M people are doing to Lucario.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bxRCPbk_E4

 

[Shorts]

@Fatman
There's another key difference between Mario and Ryu. Mario was designed from the very beginning to be a character that could work in different types of games and not feel entirely out of place. Ryu, on the other hand, was made as a character for a fighting game. The fact that we never see him outside of his gi (save for his alt. costumes) should be an indicator for this. Ryu doesn't need to "evolve" in that sense because he really only needs to do what he needs to do, fight.

Wasn't he in NAMCO x CAPCOM?

That was an RPG. I very fun looking one at that.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Just to add to the pile: he's technically not even the star of the Street Fighter games, he's just one of the franchise's most popular characters. Like most fighting games, the franchise doesn't have a true star.

Add in: Ah, yes, there's that one and the few puzzle games.

 

[Big-Cat]

Just to add to the pile: he's technically not even the star of the Street Fighter games, he's just one of the franchise's most popular characters. Like most fighting games, the franchise doesn't have a true star.

Yeah, if you want to get technical, the focus goes like this in the games:

SF1 - Ryu
SF2 - Ryu for one plot, Chun-Li and Guile for the other plot
SF3 - Alex and Urien
SF4 - Abel, but shifts to Juri in later installments.
SFA - Stuff happens to everyone, no real focus except for maybe Cammy in A3.

@Shortie
Yes he was, but I doubt he was a major player in the game.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I think you could safely say that Ryu is definitively Street Fighter.

He's been the main character of the franchise since day one.

Smooth Criminal