New Ideas, New Combos

[AXE 09]

Alright, so i admit... this probably doesn't deserve its own thread lol. but i thought everyone would love to see a new thread in this forum anyways

ok, so lately, i've been thinking... like, a lot. i always have these thoughts in my head about some crazy pikachu stuff. many times, i'll always try to think about something abstract and new. something that no one's come up with before (or at least something that i've never seen). suddenly, just a few hours ago, i thought of something new

so i'm sure that many people know about the shffl Uair (4th hitbox), run backwards and Usmash, and it's a full combo. well, i've been thinking... maybe there's other possibilities with this Uair that people just haven't thought of

don't ask me why, but for some reason, i tend to think about combos that could be possible on either the spacies or Marth. i dunno why marth specifically, but he kinda just serves as my enemy lol

the first thing i thought of was about the Uthrow -> tailspike -> regrab/Usmash (if they have full DI either left or right). i randomly came up with that quite some time ago and i've shared that idea with all of you, and i dunno if you guys have tried it out by now or not, but i still use it and i love this combo to death =) but i've been thinking of something new...

I thought, what could you do if marth DOESN'T DI?? or just DIs slightly?? i thought of a little cool new combo... Uthrow -> full jump Uair (hit marth with the 4th hitbox so he's sent flying behind you) -> double jump Nair. i tried to do that on a non-DIing computer in training mode, but no matter how hard i tried, it would not register as a true combo. this sadens me =( but something tells me that even though it's not a true combo, you could still hit humans with this. it's very close to being a full combo, so i feel like it could steal their jump or something

anyways, another *new* combo that i just thought of just a little bit ago on Marth is actually kinda cool (i think). i was just messing around with it in training mode a little bit ago and it actually registers as a complete full combo.



ok, so when fighting marth... everyone knows about the shffl Nair -> usmash, correct? well, i was thinking about the shffl Uair (4th hitbox) -> usmash, and i thought.... what if instead of usmash, you did a shffl nair? then after the shffl nair, do a shffl Uair (4th hitbox), then repeat?

it turns out... it actually works as a full combo.

against marth in training mode, after messing around for a while, i found this combo to start to work at about 55%. what you can do at that % is...

shffl Nair -> shffl Uair (4th hitbox) -> run backwards and do another shffl Nair -> shffl Uair (4th hitbox) -> run backwards, full jump Dair/Nair/Bair

with no DI, this will register as a complete 5 hit combo, and with no stale moves, this can do up to 42% damage (yeah, i know, i wish it did more damage, but it's cool as heck!)

i'm curious to try this in an actual match. i feel like their DI could make it so that you could continue the combo for even longer

oh, another thing... i decided to try this on Ganon as well. i found out... at about 70%, you can do shffl Nair -> shffl Uair (4th hitbox) -> Usmash. a full 3 hit combo, and it kills ganon on FD =) in case you're wondering, a shffl Nair -> Usmash wouldn't normally kill ganon at 70%, but your small percentage hit of the Uair makes it possible lol.

anyways... i just wanted to share this cool-looking combo with you guys, and i want to encourage everyone to try to think of creative ways to do even more combos that haven't been discussed before. i will definately continue to think of new ideas for pikachu

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

FIRST wait for me to editz


I thought about the upair hitbox a bit also but yeah I don't play as pikachu. I nromally think up movement tricks i'm kindof sad these don't work with pichu but it's cool

 

[tdk_Samurai]

wow axe, if I ever see you pull that **** in tourney and just like add 40 percent off of like a combo making them go back and forth for like an 8 hit combo, I think I will have to mail you a twix or something.

umm a less cool combo, but idk if everyone knows, at around 35 and up you can nair>nair>usmash marth, but maybe thats common knowledge, I just know that I wanted to try and learn like every combo on marth so I went into training one day and found a couple

edit: seriously axe, you pull that **** on like ****in g$ or some ****, I'll mail you a candy bar

 

[AXE 09]

wow axe, if I ever see you pull that **** in tourney and just like add 40 percent off of like a combo making them go back and forth for like an 8 hit combo, I think I will have to mail you a twix or something.

umm a less cool combo, but idk if everyone knows, at around 35 and up you can nair>nair>usmash marth, but maybe thats common knowledge, I just know that I wanted to try and learn like every combo on marth so I went into training one day and found a couple

edit: seriously axe, you pull that **** on like ****in g$ or some ****, I'll mail you a candy bar

LOL man i'm definately gonna try to pull it off. it'd be so tight to be comboing someone back and forth on the stage like that, i really want to do it on a human so bad haha

and yeah, i've done the double Nair Usmash before =) i've never tried doing 3 Nairs and a usmash before... i wonder if that's possible for a complete 4 hit combo? FD might not be long enough

 

[Dynamism?]

LOL sick

I picked up Pika for the 1st time last Saturday, and love it. I've never seen a vid of you Axe, but I saw you take out Jman at Genesis and heard stories, LOTS of stories, so I'm gonna NOT WATCH OR READ ANYTHING on Pika, and in a few matches with Pika this weekend... hopefully come up with some neat things. So far so good, but no idea if it's been done before.
Apparently my **** is wack though, and it worked thus far. So hopefully it's all good **** continues to **** everyone at the tourney. :D

I'll let you know what I come up with... it won't be disapointing, 100% garauntee you that ;D

 

[AXE 09]

LOL sick

I picked up Pika for the 1st time last Saturday, and love it. I've never seen a vid of you Axe, but I saw you take out Jman at Genesis and heard stories, LOTS of stories, so I'm gonna NOT WATCH OR READ ANYTHING on Pika, and in a few matches with Pika this weekend... hopefully come up with some neat things. So far so good, but no idea if it's been done before.
Apparently my **** is wack though, and it worked thus far. So hopefully it's all good **** continues to **** everyone at the tourney. :D

I'll let you know what I come up with... it won't be disapointing, 100% garauntee you that ;D

heck yeah! that's what i like to hear. coming up with your own original techniques =) i feel like that's a big part of becoming a pro player. you have to come up with your own techniques. you can't just try to do a direct copy of another smasher. i think it's awesome that you want to create your own style =)

you know what you should do though? you should click on my signature

 

[tdk_Samurai]

you know what you should do though? you should click on my signature

don't waste your time man, its really not that good, like it didn't even get nominated for the best video of the year award ;-)

btw axe, your totally winning that, your pika + vmans editing was insane

 

[defsithe]

is it sad that i cant remember anything i do in matches?

i no i like f-air and u-air though. hmmm i need to play some tomarw ill report back what i can remember

 

[Dynamism?]

you know what you should do though? you should click on my signature

I refuse!
At LEAST for a few weeks LOL

Yes, coming up with your own tricks is way more beneficial to not only yourself on a level of improving or helping the community improve through you, but you learn to see things for yourself. When you do something out of your comfort zone, and keep doing things you've never done before, or try things just on guesses or hopes, things can turn out amazing. But you have to do it before you get anywhere with it. And you learn and get better faster doing your own thing than duplicating what you learn elsewhere.

I've learned that very well. (Rarely watch vids, rarely play [isolated location], get DQ'd at tourneys just to hang out [Genesis example]) Yet still I can compete with great players. People call me "******** in a good way" regionally, but now that I'm starting to learn what OTHERS do...MY stuff is turning heads mixed with it.

Melee is VERY flexible and you can do ANYTHING.
More threads like this need to be around here, and more of your mindset AXE... it's a great thing.
If you want to get anywhere, you have to start first. And if you start your own way, you'll get where you want to be.



On topicish: I was playing doubles with him (like 10 matches into my Pikachu career LOL) and noticed that at some ?%, on Falcon, Doc and Marth, I was able to Nair>grab mid combo if they DI'd a certain way. At one point I Nair>Grab>bthrew them away from the doubles crowd. Then they DJ'd after the throw but before an attack came out, I took them down with a Nair>dtilt off stage>gimp. I think it was on a Marth on BF.

Was sexy.

Edit: Come to BC Plays Melee in May btw ;D LOL

 

[Largemike32197]

defsithe- I don't think you shoould fair much as pikachu is can only truely combo into a jab also
CCingg ***** it. But it's really good for when your trying to recover like if you know they are going to jump out and knee you fair is the best answer.

But yeah I would limit the number of times you use it.

wtf wrong people I am being sorry meant to be ICG I have eto share computers with my brother

 

[N64]

i love fair. It combos to uair on some chars.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Pichu's bair has ridiculous combo potential. It can combo into a nair, upsmash, regrab, uair, another bair. But it also has less lag when l-cancelled (9 frames vs Pikachu's 15 frames - 2nd longest amount of lag on a bair in the game).

Still ... maybe Pikachu's bair can be used for combos as well? I might be pushing it.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I used to think the same but Bair is like a nair which a bit more lag, little more range, less damage, and the same knockback and stun of nair. Also it lasts longer and can he auto canceled from a full hop.

Really I don't know what to do with. It seems like a worse nair.

 

[AXE 09]

here's a use for Bair, which i actually did on accident lol. i'm willing to bet that some of you have done this already, but just throwing it out here

you know when samus/link/Ylink are hanging from their grapple recovery, and you're holding the edge? many times, they just wait for you to try to fall to hit them, then they just press a and zoom right above you

well..... if you just fall and Bair immediately, the Bair stays decently strong the entire way down, and no matter what they do, they will get hit by it and it will most likely result in a kill. so no matter when they decide to finally reel themselves in, or even if they decide to NOT reel in, you will always hit them with a falling Bair =)

another word of advice, don't try this on Yoshi's Story. you will die =(

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Um what about a jolt? i would think it's safer.

 

[AXE 09]

well, it's kinda situational and stage specific. if you're holding onto the edge, and you try to ledge hop -> reverse thunder jolt, they can react fast enough to still make it. the Bair would work better on stages like Dreamland64. the thunderjolt doesn't provide the knockback to kill them like Bair would. right after they get hit by the thunderjolt, they could just immediately up-b and still make it back

unless you're talking about hitting them with an ariel thunder jolt, but in that case, they wouldn't be already hanging

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I understanden now. does dair not work I think it beat more moves and it has higher knockback.

Happy flowers

 

[AXE 09]

Dair's kinda risky. there's quite a bit of startup time, and it ends pretty early. Bair comes out almost instantly and stays out for a very long time

 

[N64]

i'd imagine fastfalled nair would work as well, though the knockback by the end would be pretty weak. Less chance of killing self in the process though.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

haha pichu turns into pikachu and pikachu turns into goku pikachu.

Yeah bair it work best if your hanging on the edge alreadly you can just C-stick bair so you don't have to woory about falling to much. But if you weren't on the edge I would think F-smash would be great, I know as pichu it lasts really long and has beyond retarted knockback and samus's up-B isn't always easy to edgegaurd.

Hey any reason why pikachus don'tF-smash as edgegaurd? I have never seen it.

 

[tdk_Samurai]

fsmash isn't NEVER used, but ftilt is better in alot of cases

 

[Faithkeeper]

I'm going to start this off by saying this: I don't know much at all about pikachu. (in melee :D )

Everything that follows could be already known, but maybe we'll get lucky.

I just started using pikachu an hour ago. Last night I saw Axe's combo video and decided I had to try our little yellow friend out. I read up some pikachu literature from these boards. This thread intrigues me. I may have found one thing messing around against cpus...

An edgeguarding tech. Basically it allows you to edgeguard the spacies a little harder. You go out, before they complete upb (as they recover), and do a side b back towards the ledge. The skullbash shoots out a little "puff" of hitbox behind you that it doesn't when you are on the ground. After the skull bash you can ^b to recover. It successfully gimped cpus, and I think would work on people. This basically allows much more aggressive edgeguarding. I think you'd have to get it down pretty well before it would be "safe" in a match, but once you have the spacing and timing down well, I think it'd be fairly safe.

The only advantage vs jolt edgeguard I see this potentially having is that it might be able to hit them once they've started moving. I have no idea what the priority is like on this move, but it may warrant further investigation. If the back of it does have good priority, it could be useful in more areas.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

It has broken priority I mean it's just like his thunder to bad the only projectiles they beat are needles and slows arrows and bombs a lot.

But yeah it should beat stuff like I think pikachu's and pichu's F-smash passes though other hitboxes I will go double check in a sec.

Hey does anyone eesle hear that pikachu is gay to fight? I hear that as pichu if I win a lot.

 

[Faithkeeper]

Well I did some more "testing." ... It looks like it's extremely situational if good for anything at all. jolt has more hitstun (I think) and uair is mad better. There's probably some random chance to use it in teams or something, but it's not all that great. It the hitbox is "big" it might be another option to use when one would usually use ftilt, or maybe for trying to hit people out of their upb's... If it does have broken priority it's got to be good for something...

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

lol go to green green stand on the ever edge on the stage and F-smash it's broken edgegaurd wtf it goes at an unstoppable angle that's beyond retarted. In you post you said "It the hitbox is "big" just listening to your sig.

But yeah F-smash can't clank iwho ever gets hit by the hitbox first loses.

 

[Faithkeeper]

Fsmash...

I've been talking about Sideb the whole time...

sorry for the misunderstanding. :/

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

ohhhhhhh. I've gimped foxes with pichu's side-B before they side-B I side-B they fall and up-B I down-smash like sweet gimps. But I know it has high priority like dumb high i've beaten puff's rollout charged with a non-charged pichu side-B i've beaten a few movesand other things I don't think I should have beaten. But pikachu's isn't as good as pichu's. His fully charged side-B can kill a puff that missed a rest at 30% in the middle of DL64 with gody mangus sdi and di. pichu's isn't reatrted i've seen a fully charged side-B as pikachu miss falcon standing still like he did the thing when he lowers his head and curls his fist and pikachu missed.

also you see how pikachu's up upwards more than pichu's that doesn't help ever

 

[tdk_Samurai]

man I was reading these last couple of posts and was like "gimp with side B?! NO WAY!" and then I read the nevermind, and am now crushed, how stupid would someone feel, honestly.

 

[AXE 09]

oh, just to clear some things up ICG, i think that pichus forward smash has more knockback than pikachus, but pichus can be smash DId out of. but i've seen the last hit of pichus Fsmash kill some people at ridiculously low percents when they get hit by the last part of the hitbox. it's like pikachu's usmash lol

and you CAN gimp fast fallers with pikachus forward b, but it's extremely situational and very risky... but when you hit it, you feel like such a champ lol.

ICG, have you really beaten puffs rollout with a noncharged pichu forward b? holy crap, i actually didn't know this was possible lol. is pikachus the same?? i gotta try that out. i can only imagine it trading. if it actually BEATS her rollout, then that's so amazing haha

hey, i actually got some pretty good combos in here =D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22cjUUOJLHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-8G6pO2Nds

 

[The Prophet_]

GREAT THREAD Pikas!
-You got my vote Pika.

Sweet Sauce!, videos!!!

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I've grabbed puff out of her rollout when i was faceing away from her I know how much backwards range pichu has. But yeah I would think pikachu's should beat puff's rollout really it's really wield because it won't really clank so if it's disjointed it's autolose.

Dude pichu's F-smash is retartedly high in knockback It's the most powerful F-smash knockback wise really A non charged F-smash seems to have more knockback than bowsers's fully charged F-smash. i've tested in training mode at 0% and on the HRC. so if i'm wrong yeah get F***ed up. also what's cool is the edge gaurd and can be set-up vs fox/falco lol thunder to F-smash is a legit training mode combo on FD. but you can't be hit by the thunder because you will lag.

 

[N64]

lol at nair to nair to nair to nair. Get that pichu **** outa here.

Good stuff axe.

edit: re-reading this post, i feel the need to clarify. The top two sentences are related to eachother, and both directed at axe.

 

[ChivalRuse]

That quad nair was so TAS.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

i've never even gonen a double nair vs someone

 

[Faithkeeper]

i've never even gonen a double nair vs someone

Just play me sometime, I've got awful DI. :D

But really, you will, I have faith you can pull it off. Maybe with some more practice or experience, but if you want it, you'll get it.

So is pikachu generally a lot more about smart positioning and reads than anything else? That's the feeling I'm getting. That and being cute and yellow, but that's inherent.

If so, naturally, I'd assume the focus of trying to find new ideas should be based around either enlarging pika's metagame to encompass other areas to a greater extent (improved forms of punishment [ie combos] or more mindgames), or to find techniques to facilitate the reading game, like something that would limit an opponent's options significantly....

I'll be experimenting with cpus...

 

[otg]

N64 and Axe are ****. Discuss

 

[tdk_Samurai]

Pikachu is all about having more range, better shields, and way better grabs than all of its opponents X-D

srsly though, alot of pikachus are different(having good positioning and good reads are great things to have though), like when I watch chad in tourneys, he reads and reacts so awesomely, but axe is prolly more about getting combos, IMHO you just gotta play and keep learning, and eventually you'll find what your good at. Like personally I'm good at getting carried in teams by really good samuses. Chad, tell spaceballs I said hes sexy.

 

[tdk_Samurai]

N64 and Axe are ****. Discuss

N64 needs more vids (glares at n64) discuss :-(

man chad kinda needs more recent ones too, I think I'm just gonna follow chad around smym 11 with my lap top and record every single one of his games including friendslies, 3 for all falcon on hyrule, and bowser challenges.

edit : goes for zig as well if he comes :-)

 

[Faithkeeper]

Pika's jab reset is very good. I think you can get 4-5 hits in (no DI). And even at 1-2 percent each, that's a great jab reset. And then you can grab, nair, whatever. Even if with good DI you can only get 2 hits in or something, knowing that you can get multiple hits is good. And I don't think most people would expect it the first time either.

Also: The more I get used to pika's WD, the more I like it.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

oh vs fox at 40ish percent nair to jab reset is amazing I do it as pichu when I can. I most;y try to SHFFL upair vs people like fox,falco, and falcon because pichu's upair(same as pikachu's upair when it hits them up) can set up a grab till like 60% on fox then he can jump out falco is like 50 something and falcon is a lower number. SHFFL upair to F-smash is a legit combo i've done before.

But yeah after doing it a lot you learn how much stun time it has and you know how much time you have to react.

Also to throw out there I think pichu and pikachu play the same way in a different sytle, they both run around hopeing for grabs, gimps, and set-ups they aren't afraid of getting off the stage, they take hits unbelievely bad and have to get in by some means that they just know will work.

I don't know why I can't play as pikachu or why pikachu's can't play as pichu maybe it's little things like to me pikachu feels a tad to slow and his up-B way to easy(pichu's is reatrted when it comes to sweetspotting), the grabs, and ways of defense. Pikachu has a terrible sheild comapred to pichu and also pichu is much harder to hit but pikachu can use his tilts to stop people and has a better wd.

But for pichu(lol a game with pichu in it) you can't simplely beat a move because everyone has range over you you can't simplely run up and attack any hits are caused by the following always, they are slow, punishment(like missed L-cancel), or you simplely tricked them to where you need them or whatever. Pichu has to figure out how to move them without attacking sometimes how do you get under puff for an up-smash? you can't really explain how you know when to stike you just know when to run away and quickly wd under her for an up-smash. You because unpredictable.If not you won't last long.

I really think the different way of doing the same thing is the main reason people can't play as both pichu and pikachu.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kQNFyEI2rs