Ness

[Kokomaniac]

Edit: double post sorry, don't know how to delete from my phone

 

[P.I.E.]

PK Thunder needs more range, and should be more like Lucas's not in that it doesn't really KO, but the head is fast and goes through things instead of being stopped. It's one of ness's signature moves and vital to his kit IMO, so it needs to be strong and have lots of uses.

PK Flash needs to go farther faster. I've found decent uses for it and have KO'd with many times, wouldnt mind having it replaced though.

PSI magnet needs to act maybe more like a shine as well? Maybe would be too good then

PK Fire needs slightly less end lag

His aerials need more range, especially his fair and bair. His fair needs to do a lot more shield damage.

His grab range needs to be increased by a decent margin

Usmash MUST be made more reliable and less laggy overall. I do like how it has initial hit boxes that hit upwards though.

D:< Ness has the best all around grab in the game. His fair is one of the best spacing tools evar >.<

I agree fire needs less end lag, but I don't think we should aim towards breaking him, but improving him.... only a bit. You need a balanced game where every character has his share of shortcomings.


Personally, I'd just like the bat to come out quicker. Stronger smashes in the game come out way before it, and I'm tired of having to time that to reflect shiz.

And if his magnet were to change, I'd like it to have more psi wind o3o

his pkt cant really be improved or it would buff him up too much. I mean think about it. If his thunder ball were like lucas's, yet the rocket was still as powerful, it'd be impossible to gimp without a reflector, wind, or psi shield or something.

And obviously the grab release. If they keep it, then villager' will have it, and it'll be obvious that too many characters are prone to grab release, just like wario to peach, ness & lucas to almost everyone including to each other (ness has a grab release across the stage, does lucas already have an infinite with his?)

It's more realistic, but you'll have to work your way around tall and short characters in the game, which is pretty dumb for making a fighting game imo, because you're adding a height factor. Unless you're going to get the shorter ones an advantage of equal value, you won't balance a game that way, that's just my two cents.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Don't know if any Ness mains have seen this yet. My original pic I took myself was deleted (CONSPIRACY!!!) But here ya go:

Spoiler

 

[P.I.E.]

What is it sposed to be? ;w;
I see a red hat o:

 

[grizby2]

"Ness briefly has a vision of a baby in a red cap."

 

[LiteralGrill]

What is it sposed to be? ;w;
I see a red hat o:

Look closely... It looks JUST like Ness... The hat, the hair, the backpack and clothes...

 

[grizby2]

i'll just wait until hes confirmed :|

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

It has come to my attention that some people in this topic are talking about changes they wanna see in Brawl Ness and others are talking about changes they wanna see in Melee Ness.

 

[grizby2]

It has come to my attention that some people in this topic are talking about changes they wanna see in Brawl Ness and others are talking about changes they wanna see in Melee Ness.

that's because brawl ness was overall better than melee ness. IMO.

well, they COULD give him his melee F-smash back, that or switch the knockback between ness's f-smash with Lucas's f-smash (the sticks knocknock is ridiculous >.>) his Fair in melee also had more knockback on the last hitbox and also sends them the right way, but they should keep the range it has in brawl.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I dont know.....in Brawl people can attack and destroy pk thunder. That sucks.

Also Ness' utilt is better in Melee iirc. His dash attack has more range too. Also DjC.

 

[grizby2]

I dont know.....in Brawl people can attack and destroy pk thunder. That sucks.

Also Ness' utilt is better in Melee iirc. His dash attack has more range too. Also DjC.

pk thunder was always destroyable.
pk thunder as a recovery has always been just an odd idea. :|
I can do without is u-tilt really. im not sure about his dash having more range in melee, but I think it's be great if he had a new dash attack period.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

pk thunder was always destroyable.
pk thunder as a recovery has always been just an odd idea. :|
I can do without is u-tilt really. im not sure about his dash having more range in melee, but I think it's be great if he had a new dash attack period.

Other than stage parts(walls floors ceilings) there are only 6 attacks in Melee that can destroy pk thunder(this doesnt include reflectors reflecting it). In Brawl, nearly all attacks can destroy pk thunder.

Attacks that can destroy PK Thunder in Melee:
-Link's Bombs
-Link's Arrows
-Sheik's Needles
-YLink's Bombs
-YLink's Arrows
-PK Fire

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

This is useful: http://smashboards.com/threads/non-item-projectile-stats.119488/

 

[Tikao]

they should give him superarmor (or at least heavy armor) on his up-b (when he's in his pkt2) ... i mean, c'mon, Ness becomes a flying bolt-projektile himself, and then they just hit him out of it ?
snake just hangs on his flying-thingy without anything surrounding him and got heavy armor?
the range of his pkt2 could be a bit better
pkt1 is ok as it its

psi-magnet should have less endlag
same goes for pk-fire (it should still have endlag to punish it, but not that much)

never understood pk-flash in ssb ... Enemies suffer from crying, numbness, feeling strange or they become unconscious.
NOTHING of that happens in ssb ... yeah, when they have enough %, it kills them, so its like become unconscious ... hey wait, this appeals for like EVERY move in the game (not including fixed knockback hits) ... well because its the concept of the game
besides of that, it's like totally useless, very high risk, because of the charging time (ness can get ***** exactly 4,87 times while charging it)
it would be the best to just replace this move or make it at least like pk-flash in earthbound (which should be difficult, because pk-flash doesn't realy fits in ssb imo, so they should just remove it)

his usmash and dsmash should have better kill potential at high %, because of their endlag, when you miss someone, so hitting with them should give you a better reward

the rest is ok, Ness is a unique charakter, and he should stay like this (so like his up-b recovery, this is just a great idea, they shouldn't remove it, even if it's not the best recovery in the game, its a awesome concept and they can still improve it)

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

they should give him superarmor (or at least heavy armor) on his up-b (when he's in his pkt2) ... i mean, c'mon, Ness becomes a flying bolt-projektile himself, and then they just hit him out of it ?

In Melee, PKT2 was completely invincible for frames 1-9. I would like it to be more though^_^

 

[P.I.E.]

It has come to my attention that some people in this topic are talking about changes they wanna see in Brawl Ness and others are talking about changes they wanna see in Melee Ness.

yeah ikr xD I looked at whether they had a melee ness or brawl ness icon near their name xD



@tikao, doesn't flash randomly kill enemies sometimes? or was that brainshock? Flash leaves me in tears because I die of laughter when I catch a falco in phantasm with it xD

 

[yoshi8984]

I know I've posted in here before and I'll probably repeat myself, but maybe they could make it so Ness is no longer helpless if his PKT1 fails to hit him? It would stop opponents from being meatshields or hitting him out of PKT1.

For PK Flash, maybe they could make the hitbox smaller for more speed but still have the same power/knockback lol
And yes PIE, Flash did randomly kill enemies at times. =P

PK Fire I'd like to see less ending lag.

Now for Yo-yos (the moves I love to abuse with Ness xD), I'd like some more range on his U-Smash and D-Smash, ability to be charged on the ledge and the charge doing multiple hits like in Project M. And decrease ending lag.

PSI Magnet needs less lag (both start-up and ending lag). Or have the ability to jump cancel it.

And of course Grab Release issue needs to GTFO lol

 

[Maripu]

I'm glad we can rest assured regarding Ness' inclusion. After all he's been in every Smash game up until now. <3

 

[Lightosia]

they should give him superarmor (or at least heavy armor) on his up-b (when he's in his pkt2) ... i mean, c'mon, Ness becomes a flying bolt-projektile himself, and then they just hit him out of it ?
never understood pk-flash in ssb ... Enemies suffer from crying, numbness, feeling strange or they become unconscious.
NOTHING of that happens in ssb ... yeah, when they have enough %, it kills them, so its like become unconscious ... hey wait, this appeals for like EVERY move in the game (not including fixed knockback hits) ... well because its the concept of the game
besides of that, it's like totally useless, very high risk, because of the charging time (ness can get ***** exactly 4,87 times while charging it)
it would be the best to just replace this move or make it at least like pk-flash in earthbound (which should be difficult, because pk-flash doesn't realy fits in ssb imo, so they should just remove it)

In Earthbound, PK Flash also has a small chance of OHKOing enemies (not some bosses, though).


@topic: He needs his Fsmash from Melee, with that ping sound and everything. Oh, and his victory theme should be the old one.

 

[Tikao]

In Earthbound, PK Flash also has a small chance of OHKOing enemies (not some bosses, though).

isn't that what becoming unconscious means? ... my english is not that great, but i meant those random insta kills ... but it's not a insta kill in ssb, it kills fast, but it's not that random "lol u died" like in earthbound ... besides killing your opponent when he got percentages is the concept of the game
as an example :

Ness's pk-flash (fully charged) kills Mario at the center of fd (without di) at 53%
a fully charged fsmash (tipper'd) kills Mario at the center of fd (without di) at 52% (so like at the same percentages)

so the unique "Pk-flash can insta kill" sometimes isn't here ... even IF it would kill at 0%, then it would kill at 0% EVERY time, so it's not like that random insta kill in earthbound, it would be a konstant insta KO
and pk-flash lacks of ANY other status-effect
pk flash in earthbound (which would make it unique) : random status effect (including instant KO)
pk flash in ssb : a chargeable projektile (its ok up to this point) without any status effects, just high (non-instaKO) knockback , which stays the same at the same charge-level
and thats not unique, only how it travels and thats a projektile , but it's not like in earthbound

but how should a pk-flash in ssb look like ... it should cause these random status-effects like in earthbound (and many like make your enemy suffer from crying would be REALY difficult to implement in brawl
also the CHANCE of getting a better status effect should change/grow, while charging it / with a higher charge-level

so, in my opinion, they should rework his pk-flash to be an entire new move which would actually fit what i mentioned here, but that in ssb would be very difficult, so they should just remove pk-flash from his moveset and give him a new move

 

[P.I.E.]

Solution: Sakurai obviously didn't play earthbound lmfao. He should use like, Brainshock or something for b xD I think you could get creative if Flash or rockin were a final smash. I mean, the screen could go white for a while, with the exception of an area around ness or something, but honestly the actual use of flash might be like that of luigi's final smash imo. Where yeah, it could be a bunch of different effects, maybe stick them in the ground for petrification, put a flower on their heads and reverse controls? put them in shield break animation instead of KO... I mean the whole way to hit them could be the same but the effects upon hitting opponenets would be a good compromise.

 

[Lightosia]

Smash's PK Flash is like a different interpretation of Earthbound's one, just like PK Thunder and PK Fire.
Since OHKO moves wouldn't work in a Smash environment, they made the move quite strong.


But yeah, it could have some improvements, like being faster and the uncharged version more useful (applying random stats, like Lip's flower, stun, would be cool)

 

[yoshi8984]

Oh yeah, did anyone notice on the Smash 4 site the Copyright has Creatures Inc. (successor to Ape) on it? Those are the developers of Mother 1 and Earthbound, so I think this may confirm Ness being in, even though Sakurai didn't want Ness to be in Smash. =P
(Yeah I know Creatures Inc. developed other games, but those games aren't exactly main games are the characters who were confirmed lol)

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Regarding PK Flash: As it is in Melee, I dont have MUCH of a problem with it, but something concerns me about it; It has no application uncharged. The ONLY time a person would ever let PK Flash go off uncharged is if they regret using pk flash in the first place and they wanna cut their losses. I think that it should be changed to that the uncharged hitbox is larger and comes out faster for a sort of quick, anti-air application that can lead into follow-ups. Or, you can charge it and use it as it is usually used a la Melee.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

They should just make his Pk thunder be able to be reused if it gets intercepted or killed for whatever reason, just like other characters who recover, if they get hit after UP B they can UP B again. Just let Ness do the same. It's really that simple.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

They should just make his Pk thunder be able to be reused if it gets intercepted or killed for whatever reason, just like other characters who recover, if they get hit after UP B they can UP B again. Just let Ness do the same. It's really that simple.

Yeah

 

[Tikao]

even though Sakurai didn't want Ness to be in Smash. =P

did i missed something?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Oh yeah, did anyone notice on the Smash 4 site the Copyright has Creatures Inc. (successor to Ape) on it? Those are the developers of Mother 1 and Earthbound, so I think this may confirm Ness being in, even though Sakurai didn't want Ness to be in Smash. =P
(Yeah I know Creatures Inc. developed other games, but those games aren't exactly main games are the characters who were confirmed lol)

Doesn't Creatures Inc work on Pokémon too? The only ones getting credit in the trailer are the ones who have some of their content in the trailer.

Either way, Ness is definitely in anyways.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

This is useful: http://smashboards.com/threads/non-item-projectile-stats.119488/

I remembered that I made two of those! The quoted link is the MELEE VERSION. The below link is the BRAWL VERSION.

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?pid=261665#p261665

 

[Eagleye893]

@simna, I didn't know that PKT was like a laser in ssbm.... Weird. I actually like the brawl way where if you hit someone it stops, just not when it's offstage and I'm trying to recover XP. I think Uffe's suggestion with "R to cancel" AND laser capabilities would make it absolutely awesome.

Brawl PK Fire, after I look back at the game, is actually okay. Maybe like 1 or 2 percent more on the first hit would be nice. Also, remove the god-awful landing lag. The standing pkfire made you think when you used it so that you need to go at the furthest range, which is something I like; more skillful Nesses will hit and can't follow up with a combo if it's DI'd, but that's the point of a move you're using to poke. The aerial form was essentially useless because it lagged for so long and required you to airdodge or use an aerial or jump quickly after in order to avoid landing lag. If they made it so the timeframe of massive lag was closer to the time you shoot out the bolt, I'd be fine with that, and people who are really good can space and time so that they land with little to no lag while still getting off the bolt on an opponent to follow up.

Ness's current UAir is op. Also BAir is nice. FAir is okay. NAir shouldn't change either... So I'm just saying his aerials are all perfect (I like the delay on DAir, don't judge me).

His tilts... Need a bit of a touch up. His FTilt should be just a tiny bit quicker to cool down and his dtilt should have a tiny bit more range outward. Utilt is nice. Jabs they should fix so you can't get your 3rd hit shielded so consistently.

Grab... Standing grab range increase plox XD that is all. The throws are nice

Dash attack should be more quick to start and chain into each hit more consistently. As it is in brawl, you're VERY likely to only hit one part. The range is nice, but if the earlier sparks were a tiny bit further forward it would be so good.

This is after I took an hour or so to play around with ness again. My friends are having a smash get-together and I haven't touched this game since last year. Not brawl or melee. 64 I did, but I suck at that.

Oh yeah, REMOVE THE GRABBED FRAME DISADVANTAGE! 10 extra frames >.>

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

@simna, I didn't know that PKT was like a laser in ssbm.... Weird. I actually like the brawl way where if you hit someone it stops, just not when it's offstage and I'm trying to recover XP. I think Uffe's suggestion with "R to cancel" AND laser capabilities would make it absolutely awesome.

I think you might be misunderstanding what I mean by laser. In Melee, PK Thunder still stops when it hits someone, but they can't attack PK Thunder to stop it. PK Thunder will only stop if it: Hits a target(a shield or anything with a hurtbox), hits a part of the stage(floor/wall/ceiling), runs out, or Ness dies/gets hit(except in Melee version 1.0 and sometimes 1.1).

 

[[Corn]]

@simna, I didn't know that PKT was like a laser in ssbm.... Weird. I actually like the brawl way where if you hit someone it stops, just not when it's offstage and I'm trying to recover XP. I think Uffe's suggestion with "R to cancel" AND laser capabilities would make it absolutely awesome.

Brawl PK Fire, after I look back at the game, is actually okay. Maybe like 1 or 2 percent more on the first hit would be nice. Also, remove the god-awful landing lag. The standing pkfire made you think when you used it so that you need to go at the furthest range, which is something I like; more skillful Nesses will hit and can't follow up with a combo if it's DI'd, but that's the point of a move you're using to poke. The aerial form was essentially useless because it lagged for so long and required you to airdodge or use an aerial or jump quickly after in order to avoid landing lag. If they made it so the timeframe of massive lag was closer to the time you shoot out the bolt, I'd be fine with that, and people who are really good can space and time so that they land with little to no lag while still getting off the bolt on an opponent to follow up.

Ness's current UAir is op. Also BAir is nice. FAir is okay. NAir shouldn't change either... So I'm just saying his aerials are all perfect (I like the delay on DAir, don't judge me).

His tilts... Need a bit of a touch up. His FTilt should be just a tiny bit quicker to cool down and his dtilt should have a tiny bit more range outward. Utilt is nice. Jabs they should fix so you can't get your 3rd hit shielded so consistently.

Grab... Standing grab range increase plox XD that is all. The throws are nice

Dash attack should be more quick to start and chain into each hit more consistently. As it is in brawl, you're VERY likely to only hit one part. The range is nice, but if the earlier sparks were a tiny bit further forward it would be so good.

This is after I took an hour or so to play around with ness again. My friends are having a smash get-together and I haven't touched this game since last year. Not brawl or melee. 64 I did, but I suck at that.

Oh yeah, REMOVE THE GRABBED FRAME DISADVANTAGE! 10 extra frames >.>

This, grab release isnt going to help him. Just remove the stupid thing.

 

[Uffe]

did i missed something?

It is said that Ness was going to be replaced with Lucas in Melee. Of course I'm not sure if that statement is true or not seeing how Mother 3 came out in 2006 and Melee came out in 2001.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

It is said that Ness was going to be replaced with Lucas in Melee. Of course I'm not sure if that statement is true or not seeing how Mother 3 came out in 2006 and Melee came out in 2001.

Lucas was gonna be in Earthbound 64, so maybe it was planned when Melee was in early stages of development when Mother 3 was still a possibility on n64/gamecube

 

[Uffe]

Lucas was gonna be in Earthbound 64, so maybe it was planned when Melee was in early stages of development when Mother 3 was still a possibility on n64/gamecube

That is true. I didn't bother to think about that. I was thinking maybe it was hearsay, because I was Googling Lucas in Melee, but I kept getting Brawl, even after putting -Brawl. Thanks.

 

[HarryTheChin]

Ness, Mr. Saturn, the Franklin Badge, a new Earthbound stage (maybe even Onett), and one other character (not Lucas) of the series.

That's all that'll be representing Earthbound in SSB4 IMO.

If I had to guess, Jeff or Porky.

 

[grizby2]

the franklin badge is such a bad item choice. they need to change it.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

the franklin badge is such a bad item choice. they need to change it.

Go on.

 

[Piks]

Oh yeah, did anyone notice on the Smash 4 site the Copyright has Creatures Inc. (successor to Ape) on it?

Creatures Inc also developed the first Pokemon games- The copyright is referring to Pikachu.

even though Sakurai didn't want Ness to be in Smash. =P

This is also not true, mate
Sakurai's involvement with HAL Laboratory (Which, like Creatures Inc, was part of the three companies that developed EarthBound) gave him a soft spot for the MOTHER series, thus his inclusion in Smash 64.
There's a even Mother reference in Kirby Super Star.

 

[grizby2]

Go on.

imo
its very situational. character-wise.

for instance, wolf vs. c. falcon

wolf already has a reflector, so why pick it up? also, what good is it against c.falcon, or ganon, dk, marth, ike ect... who don't have a projectile?

also, it will most likely only affect those who don't know what it does, and when they DO find out what it does, how easy is it going to be for them to be tricked by it again, ya know?
it really gets on my nerves when the mother series is pissed on. there are plenty of other interesting potential items in the game.

the franklin badge was fun but it was something I only used 1 or 2 times before I stopped using it altogether.